Malazan Empire: Mafia 89.75: Happy Never After - Malazan Empire

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Mafia 89.75: Happy Never After

#1161 User is offline   Sorrit 

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 10:52 PM

 Tellan, on 31 July 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

I'm watching Breaking Bad and eating dinner. Only in S2, no spoilers.


I still haven't watched a single episode, because I missed first couple seasons, and want to watch them back to back.

#1162 User is offline   Tellan 

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 10:53 PM

The first 4 or so are on netflix.

What can I say? I have an aggressive personality. I usually self medicate, but being a poor student is starting to effect.

#1163 User is offline   Tellan 

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:19 PM

No one is here.

#1164 User is offline   Atrahal 

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:23 PM

Ok, so I'm back. I'll respond to Tellan's case in a minute, but I want to get my thoughts out first.

I see little anywhere to suggest that Kalse was fake-symping. The reveal and subsequent scramblings were lame enough to make me believe that the simplest answer is most likely correct, and that lends my suspicion to Rashan and Tellan. I'd like to know, Telas, why you think it's more likely that Kalse was trying to push us to lynch Rashan and Tellan than trying to distract from them.

#1165 User is offline   Rashan 

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:39 PM

I'm here and will be (slowly) reading up. I have a lot of work to catch up on so I may not post much until I get home, though.

#1166 User is offline   Atrahal 

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:44 PM

 Tellan, on 31 July 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

Hmm. Alright, here we go. Please read all of this, everyone. I know long posts can be a pain, but I would really love some comments here.


 Kalse, on 26 July 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

Im still here as well but im at work so I keep half writing something and getting interupted and then forgetting the point I was making....

I'm thinking lisoan isnt scum, but only becuase ruse was voting for him the whole day, and there was hardly any other heat on him, it would of been daft for lio to kill off ruse....I'm not rulling him out completlty, but I think he is a little less likely to be scum right now....



So here is Kalse's first instance of defending Liosan. Somewhat subtle. Not very subtle, but its not outright. He gives reasoning, at least.



 Kalse, on 26 July 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

 Liosan, on 26 July 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

Hmm, after all that analyzing, I think my favourite for scum suspect right now is Atrahal, for giving us shit for voting Emu, then trying to hammer him after he had already been hammered. And his vote Emu, then vote Tellan within 5 minutes thing as well.

vote Atrahal



I think atrahal was just making sure we got a lynch. We have all hammered someone we didn't really want to vote for just to get a lynch.
Also he was voting for emur, who was town an then changed his mind, if emur had been found scum I'd be voting for atrahal right now, but he wasn't.

I'm not to impresses with Lios mass of cases right now...



And here Kalse defends Atrahal, and distances himself from Liosan a bit. Interesting.


 Atrahal, on 26 July 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

If I had a dollar for every time someone decided that a player defending another player means that both of them are scum... I'd like you to read this REALLY CAREFULLY. If we were partners it would be very stupid of Kalse to jump to my defence after only one vote, especially this early in the day, and with so many other votes and suspects hanging around. Responding to a case is what happens in Mafia, and if someone disagrees with a case then it is up to them to question that case. That is the only way we are going to get enough information out on the board to make an informed decision. Your attack of Kalse really just looks like you trying to deflect suspicion because it is a poor case. You could have easily answered Kalse's reservations constructively, but instead you went on the attack, and it looks dodgy.


This reads like a master admonishing his symp.


Just a side note, Atrahal has made cases on two confirmed innocents so far on day 2. Not damning in itself, but it adds to it. That would be SL and Eloth.



 Kalse, on 27 July 2012 - 06:26 AM, said:

If we are looking at low posters with little or no content I think we need to look at kaschan a little, this post is pretty much the only thing he's said in the last 24 hours that wasn't a 'I'm catching up' or 'I'm going to bed' comment...



Here is an instance that Kalse attacks Kaschan. So this would lead to the idea that Kaschan is not a killer.

 Kalse, on 27 July 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

I still think lio is town, but its more of a wifom gut feeling, more than anything else which I was called on when I made that post originally

there's quite a few if us who are just slipping through without making any waves, its those im thinking of right now

my house internet keeps going on and off, ive tried 3 times to post this so im going to be using my phone after this


Kalse continues to defend Liosan.


 Kalse, on 27 July 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

the first post was an analysis of ruse after he was killed and the second one was about lio

why dont you vote for me if you think my defense of lio makes lio scummy?


This one is a very interesting post. Kalse begs for votes himself, rather than people voting Liosan. His logic in this post is extremely flawed.


 Kalse, on 27 July 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

I dont think lio's scum, so why would i vote for him?


Another post defending Liosan, it seems too easy!

 Kalse, on 27 July 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

im not sure how lio has managed to gain three votes so quickly, with no new evidence being brought forward
by my count we have just jumped to liosan.

3 Votes for Tellan ( Tennes, Osseric, Atrahal )
1 Vote for Liosan ( Sheltatha Lore )
6 Votes for Osseric ( Tellan, Eloth, Kalse, D'riss, Telas, Liosan )

to

2 Votes for Tellan ( Osseric, Atrahal )
4 Vote for Liosan ( Sheltatha Lore, D'riss, Tellan, Tennes, )
4 Votes for Osseric ( Eloth, Kalse, Liosan, Telas )

which if anything has just made it harder to get a lynch at all...



because we need a lynch i will switch if someone else votes for lio but i dont agree with the case and i dont like how quick three votes switched


Again, more defensive. This quantity of posts is just ridiculous.


 Kalse, on 27 July 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

too many cross posts, that counts way off

remove vote, vote lio

to get the lynch


Here he switches, as the lynch is inevitable. Not sure how I feel about this.

 Atrahal, on 27 July 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

Vote Osseric


But here Atrahal votes Osseric, and this vote is basically what secures Osseric as an option again. So here Atrahal resists the Liosan lynch.

 Liosan, on 31 July 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:

It's definitely been one of those days. I can't shake my feeling that Atrahal is scum - that's where my vote was yesterday before I moved it to Osseric for the lynch. I'm going to have a closer look at Atrahal and see if I can come up with something a little more concrete than my gut feeling.

As for the case against me, I don't really understand it. It seems to rest on things that I explain as I'm doing them, misrepresentation of the things that I've said and the actions that I've taken. I apologize for not being as active as I usually am this game, but I got slammed really hard at work last week, and it's only barely letting up this week. Anyway, I'll dig up the case against me after I have had a look at Atrahal, but for now I agree with Tennes' refutation of what seems to be the case against me. *nods* Stay tuned!


And here is an example of Liosan not liking Atrahal. There were a lot of these, but I only grabbed this one because I didn't make the connection right away. I'll get to that in a minute.



In conclusion, Kalse, our known symp, defends the hell out of Liosan, and Atrahal. He didn't defend anyone else at all. He really worked to relieve suspicion on Liosan, and we didn't get a lynch there. All of these posts can lead to no other conclusion but that Liosan was heavily symped by kalse.

-but- Kalse seems to be fake symping me (and Rashan, if he is inno). I think there's a definite possibility that Kalse was fake symping Liosan because Liosan had frequently posted that she was very suspicious of Atrahal, and continued to vote in that way despite little support.

Along with that, Kalse defends Atrahal, and Atrahal seems to scold him.

So here are my likely scenarios.


Kalse as symp, Liosan is inno, Atrahal is a killer.

Kalse as symp, Liosan and Atrahal both killers.


Liosan's accusations against Atrahal were pretty easy to make, and not dangerous. No one supported. This could easily be distancing. Along with that, Atrahal did not vote on the Liosan train.

Either way, I see Atrahal as scum after this reread in either scenario, so here we go.

Vote Atrahal



Comments, please.


Ok, so first off, you say that Kalse was "defending the hell" out of me, but you have one instance of that, amid a massive collection of posts defending Liosan. You say I was "scolding" Kalse, but if you read the rest of my post, rather than just the bit you underlined, I was scolding the idiot who suggested that both of us were scum because of one instance of Kalse disagreeing with comments made against me.

In terms of my vote on Osseric, I really didn't like the way Lio gained so many votes so close to time out, and I said so at the time. I felt it likely that at least one scum was in on that, trying to derail the lynch that was building on Osseric. Turns out Osseric was inno, so that theory went out the window, but that was my reasoning at the time.

I think Liosan is much more likely to be scum, and I can't help feeling that everyone is reading more into Kalse's actions than is actually there. There was noting subtle about the reveal, just as there has been nothing subtle about the way Kalse defended Liosan.

Add to that, the fact that Liosan has been pretty much absent recently, apart from throwing out suspicions on me and hammering Kalse. The hammer could have been an attempt to distance from Kalse (although I agree it would be a clumsy one, and Lio basically had no choice at that point). The case he built on me was safe, and he never hung around long enough to discuss his cases or respond to my defence. It would be a good way for scum to look like they are contributing without making any waves. In fact, it may be significant, Tellan, that you have all this evidence against Liosan, but you are voting for me. I could see this as distancing from Liosan without actually havin to vote for him.

So at this stage I think we are looking at Liosan and either Tellan or Rashan, and I'd be prepared to vote for any of them.

#1167 User is offline   Tellan 

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:22 AM

Quote


Ok, so first off, you say that Kalse was "defending the hell" out of me, but you have one instance of that, amid a massive collection of posts defending Liosan.


Actually, I said he was defending the hell out of Liosan. He defended you less, and a bit more subtly. That was the point of scenario 1.

Quote

You say I was "scolding" Kalse, but if you read the rest of my post, rather than just the bit you underlined, I was scolding the idiot who suggested that both of us were scum because of one instance of Kalse disagreeing with comments made against me.


I know that's the way you intended the post to look to town, but I read an undertone of telling your symp to stop defending you when you don't need it.

Quote


I think Liosan is much more likely to be scum



This quote makes me feel you are scum even more. More likely to be scum than you? If you were inno you would say that with conviction, and word it differently. If you're inno, you KNOW you're inno. I know you will say I twisted your words, and that's fine. This is just how it read to me.

Quote


Add to that, the fact that Liosan has been pretty much absent recently




Agree with you here, Liosan's dissapearance is no good for his town likelihood.


Quote


The case he built on me was safe, and he never hung around long enough to discuss his cases or respond to my defence.



Which is my point. It never threw undo suspicion on you.

Quote


In fact, it may be significant, Tellan, that you have all this evidence against Liosan, but you are voting for me. I could see this as distancing from Liosan without actually havin to vote for him.


No. When you CF scum, he would be the next logical lynch in my mind, and I would continue to push that tomorrow.

#1168 User is offline   Telas 

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:32 AM

I'm back. Atrahal, you should put your vote where your mouth is. Like I previously stated, I think lynching you, Liosan, or Tellan would all be viable lynches.

#1169 User is offline   Telas 

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:34 AM

 Atrahal, on 31 July 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

Ok, so I'm back. I'll respond to Tellan's case in a minute, but I want to get my thoughts out first.

I see little anywhere to suggest that Kalse was fake-symping. The reveal and subsequent scramblings were lame enough to make me believe that the simplest answer is most likely correct, and that lends my suspicion to Rashan and Tellan. I'd like to know, Telas, why you think it's more likely that Kalse was trying to push us to lynch Rashan and Tellan than trying to distract from them.

I think both scenarios are about as likely.

#1170 User is offline   Tellan 

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:37 AM

Atrahal, Kaschan, Liosan, Rashan.


Please post. I hate when I live to this part of the game. It gets so slow and frustrating.

#1171 User is offline   Tellan 

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:37 AM

>please respond

#1172 User is offline   Liosan 

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:45 AM

I put a solid few hours of each day into this except for last Friday when I got slammed at work. It's a shame that I'm not able to be around when everyone else is all the time, but that's the way it is when you have a job and friends! :D That being said, I'm not one to sit here and vomit out everything that comes to mind. I make a case, and refute when I can, and move on when I'm convinced. I try to put only useful information on thread, make my accusations, and not create pages and pages of useless garble like some other unnamed princesses.

That all being said, I don't really believe that Atrahal ever made any great effort to defend himself from me... This is what he said:

Quote

In terms of what Lio is saying against me, I find it laughable that he can say he is happy to add to a lynch train to get a lynch, but finds me suspicious for doing the same. If I was switching my vote around a lot I could understand his suspicion, but I haven't been doing that at all.


He's right, he hasn't been switching his vote around a lot, but he didn't at all respond to the real case I made, which was that he spent most of Day 2 making random cases (against two confirmed innos if I am not mistaken) and all around just throwing suspicion around until he can safely throw a vote at Tellan again (because Eloth brought him back up).

And then Day 3 he throws out comments like...

Quote

You're an idiot. What if PS isn't including roles in the CF? Then that leaves us no wiser as to where the scum is hiding.


..which just seems like deliberately misunderstanding how these games are played as a standard to muddy up people's choices and thoughts. A finder CFs Finder in every M&P game I've ever played... and....

Quote

I said nothing at all about lynching Kalse. In fact, I think this play is much more likely to be the work of a symp than scum, in which case there is no point at all in lynching him. We'd be better to look at who he was trying to protect.


Quote

Who said anything about lynching Kaschan? And we don't have to lynch the symp, just scum. It's not D-day yet, and your fatalistic attitude and insults are not going to help anyone.


...which is pretty much dumb as far as I am concerned. If we are sure someone is the symp, why leave them around? It automatically gives us an extra day before D Day, and once it's as obvious as it was that Kalse was the symp, why would they do anything to symp and possibly have their killers caught? They'd just be around creating havoc onthread that wouldn't help anyone who is town.

Anyway, I believe that Atrahal is one of the scum, but I am afraid to vote him just yet for fear that he's not and the 2 scum hammer. So I'll hold off for now, but unless something more compelling comes up, that's where my vote's going. If Atrahal CFs scum, I'm going to give you all a great big fuck you for not listening to me 2-3 days ago. If not, well, I won't.

#1173 User is offline   Tellan 

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:49 AM

I would love if the two scum hammered if I were wrong. Would make our job tomorrow much easier.

#1174 User is offline   Liosan 

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:59 AM

 Tellan, on 01 August 2012 - 12:49 AM, said:

I would love if the two scum hammered if I were wrong. Would make our job tomorrow much easier.




I suppose you're right, still, I'll leave my vote off for now, see what happens - plenty of time left in the day!

#1175 User is offline   Telas 

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:02 AM

So Liosan...both examples could just as easily be distancing. But you haven't addressed the bulk of the case, which insinuates kalse symped you (as much as you can address such a case).

#1176 User is offline   Sorrit 

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:13 AM

What's new, peoples? Telas is willing to vote Tellan, Atrahal is willing to vote Tellan, what about Liosan, Rashan, and Kaschan?

Atrahal, what do you think about this. You have the same line of thought when it comes to Kalse symping straight forward, as I do. I think it's more likely that Kalse simply symped Tellan or Rashan, or both, instead of this fake symp routine Telas suggested. We agree here.

I think Kalse acts the same way on day two when he removes vote from Osseric, to put Liosan at L-2. I think Kalse also acted straight forward when he voted Liosan. I think he thought either Liosan or Osseric would be a viable lynch.

I think Kalse wouldn't have put a scum in his findings, therefore Kaschan would probably cf town to me.

2 scum out of atrahal, Telas, Tellan, and Rashan.

If we lynch a scum, he'll only have one person defending him, potentially. I still think Tellan gives us our best shot. Sorry, Tellan. I love you.

remove vote
Vote Tellan


#1177 User is offline   Sorrit 

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:16 AM

 Telas, on 01 August 2012 - 01:02 AM, said:

So Liosan...both examples could just as easily be distancing. But you haven't addressed the bulk of the case, which insinuates kalse symped you (as much as you can address such a case).


Kalse put Lio at L-2. Fairly dangerous if Lio is scum. Day 2.

#1178 User is offline   Path-Shaper 

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:18 AM

It is Day 5. 26 hours and 56 minutes remaining
7 Players still alive: Atrahal, Kaschan, Liosan, Rashan, Sorrit, Telas, Tellan

4 votes to lynch, 4 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Atrahal ( Tellan )
1 Vote for Tellan ( Sorrit )

Players not voted: Atrahal, Kaschan, Liosan, Rashan, Telas
Only someone with this much power could make this many frittatas without breaking any eggs.
0

#1179 User is offline   Telas 

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:19 AM

Ok, so almost everyone has checked in so far today.

Telas - willing to vote Atrahal, Liosan, Tellan
Tellan - case against Atrahal
Sorrit - suspects Telas, Atrahal, Tellan, Rashan
Liosan - wants to vote Atrahal
Rashan - no opinion given
Kaschan - still absent
Atrahal - willing to vote Liosan, Tellan, Rashan

Anything I missed? I think that we need to maximize not only the likelihood we're hitting scum but also the amount of information we get. Though I do like the case against Atrahal, I think it benefits us to lynch Tellan for the sake of getting information. Rashan is super lurker and has fewer connections than Tellan. The Tellan CF will give us insight into the validity of my fake-symping theory (whether or not Kalse was trying to save his masters when he made his fake reveal).

#1180 User is offline   Telas 

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:22 AM

 Sorrit, on 01 August 2012 - 01:16 AM, said:

 Telas, on 01 August 2012 - 01:02 AM, said:

So Liosan...both examples could just as easily be distancing. But you haven't addressed the bulk of the case, which insinuates kalse symped you (as much as you can address such a case).


Kalse put Lio at L-2. Fairly dangerous if Lio is scum. Day 2.


That's true. I want to hear from Rashan and Kaschan before making a decision. We have time, and this is the last day before d-day--I want to make this lynch count, because otherwise scum only has to convince 1 person to win the game.

edit: a decision on whom to lynch, that is.

This post has been edited by Telas: 01 August 2012 - 01:23 AM


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