[beru]

i kinda did germany, i had at one point 56 demenses -.- great holy wars are fun and games

also my super guy stil got 31 dip but he has no sons, i might need to fix some laws before he gets the crown,

[EmperorMagus]

Urgh. The Cumanian Khan used the opportunity to declare holy war for Kingdom of Khiva while his direct Vassal fought for Kingdom of Turkestan against my practically penniless, soldierless state.
I am officially extinct for the first time.
It hurts to be outfought by the AI.


Edit: a faction with 246% of my retinue was fighting against me for elective monarchy at the same time.
Are republics fun?

This post has been edited by EmperorMagus: 26 June 2013 - 05:33 PM

[Morgoth]

EmperorMagus, on 26 June 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

Urgh. The Cumanian Khan used the opportunity to declare holy war for Kingdom of Khiva while his direct Vassal fought for Kingdom of Turkestan against my practically penniless, soldierless state.
I am officially extinct for the first time.
It hurts to be outfought by the AI.


Edit: a faction with 246% of my retinue was fighting against me for elective monarchy at the same time.
Are republics fun?

Absurdly powerful. If you want a bit more of a learning start, try it out as the merchant republic of Gotland.

[Satan]

I've finally gotten around to reforming the Norse faith. Up 100% religious authority and the masses are converting in troves. And the fact that I can force conversion for all vassals with over 40 % something respect for me does wonders for the cohesion of the empire. Won't be able to do great holy wars for about 100 years, but that's alright. I can wait. Loads of opportunities for conquest in all directions. With the current emperor, I even rival the Holy Roman Empire for military power. We'll see how it goes after he dies. My heir is mediocre, but still better traits overall than his father. With 8500 retinue and a pumped up Upsala for home province, I should be alright. But if there ever were famous final words...

[Morgoth]

I know I should, but it simply isn't in me to relocate the capital of the Scandinavian Empire from Norway to Sweden. And Akershus is pretty sweet a province when all is said and done. With its universities, school and massive forts.

[Satan]

I wouldn't either if I started off as Norway. I figured it'd be easier to reform Norse belief if I controlled one o the holy sites from the beginning, so I chose to start in Uppsala. Turned out to rule all of Scandinavia + Denmark (they're not Scandinavian, damnit!) a long while before reformation became an option. But once you've built up a capital, it's rather silly to change, I think. Especially with gavel kind succession.

[Morgoth]

Elective Monarchy is the way to go. Not only do I keep my vassals happy, which in return makes them vote for my choice, I can also pick the most gifted of the rulers children, rather than risking being saddled with gluttones, paranoid retard as the ruler for the next 40 years.

[Messremb]

Gluttonous paranoid retards aren't compulsory as a ruler? Damn, now I know why I'm struggling

[Satan]

I've been working towards primogeniture, as I consider that the safest for keeping all my holdings. Gavelkind has shafted me a bit on that, as my demesnes are spread across the empire and I can't really build anything in any place other than my capitol. Once I've got primogeniture I can start plotting for the territories around Uppsala and build up a proper power base there. Sweden is, from experience, also relatively safe from that damned Golden Horde. Germany, where most of my current ruler's holdings are now, definitely isn't.

But you're saying that elective monarchy is the way to go? Does that ensure that there is a sole heir to all my lands? And how is the demesne size compared to gavelkind?

This post has been edited by Satan: 27 June 2013 - 12:16 PM

[Morgoth]

Satan, on 27 June 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

I've been working towards primogeniture, as I consider that the safest for keeping all my holdings. Gavelkind has shafted me a bit on that, as my demesnes are spread across the empire and I can't really build anything in any place other than my capitol. Once I've got primogeniture I can start plotting for the territories around Uppsala and build up a proper power base there. Sweden is, from experience, also relatively safe from that damned Golden Horde. Germany, where most of my current ruler's holdings are now, definitely isn't.

But you're saying that elective monarchy is the way to go? Does that ensure that there is a sole heir to all my lands? And how is the demesne size compared to gavelkind?

Demense size is smaller than gavelkind (by one, I think). In an elective monarchy, every duchy within the kingdom is provided one vote (as far as I can recall), and a tie is decided by whomever the current king has nominated upon his death. Children typically struggle to get nominated, also there seems to be a sizeable incentive for the AI to vote in accordance with the King (as long as they like you one assumes). Whoemever has the most votes at any given time is the successor of the current ruler, and will inherit all his titles.

So, with an Elective Monarchy you'll be able to pick your most able heir, and it causes less resentment among the other heirs than do primogeniture. I guess the idea is that all the heirs, and your other vassals for that matter, have the chance of becoming king through election, and as such see less reason to rebell. In addition you can also pick a brother, an uncle or whomever else within the Dynasty you feel most qualified to rule.

You can technically pick someone outside of the Dynasty too, but that would be a little daft.

[Morgoth]

Messremb, on 27 June 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

Gluttonous paranoid retards aren't compulsory as a ruler? Damn, now I know why I'm struggling

There are already appearing signs of a little interbreeding among the Yngling dynasty. I've been doing my best to avoid it among the ruling family, but once they start moving out of my control they seem perfectly happy to marry cousins aplenty. The main problem is the strange change that makes it all but impossible to marry across faiths. I've been a bit too focused on giving freshly aquired territories to members of the dynasty, so now there are almost no Norse nobles named anything but Yngling.

[Gothos]

Another point on Elective Monarchy: after succession the runner ups don't get the pretender thing, making the transition somewhat easier.

[EmperorMagus]

I finally reformed the Norse faith. Now I'm having a headache trying to change succession laws.
Also, forming an empire is a pain in the ass.

[Messremb]

This just proves everything I thought about how well my game is going so far.

Attached File(s)

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[Vengeance]

Ok so I just got Crusader Kings2 on the summer steam sale.

Never mind the old gods isn't on sale so I will get that once I'm comfortable with the game.

This post has been edited by Vengeance: 22 July 2013 - 04:31 PM

[Gothos]

So I went back to this game this afternoon, with an attempt at making a reformed pagan Pomerania powerhouse for exporting for EU4, iron man mode, not using any saves whatsoever and...
I was reminded how quickly this game can turn around on you.
So I conquered the de iure Kingdom of Pomerania (excluding the East Francia held county of... somewhere) fairly quickly within just a few quick campaigns after subduing the duchy of Pomerania internally, even expanded into Prussia with no effort. Danes feared attacking me, Poland and Great Moravia couldn't stand up to me either, and I raided the border with East Francia with impunity as they were usually busy waging wars in the south and west anyway...
So I grew bold. I declared war for that one county I was missing. EF was at war with Italy for a claim, the war was pretty inconclusive at that point (around 40% warscore towards Italy after like 8 years of warfare) so I disbanded my raiding team and ran head first into them...
I didn't notice Lotharingia, which they immediately called into the war as allies, is also at war with Italy in a separate war for the same thing, and their warscore was... well, suffice to say that war ended about a week of gametime after I declared war on EF. So yeah, now do I wisely withdraw and take the gold and prestige hit? Or keep going to see how much I can get, maybe enough for a White Peace instead of surrender?
So I kept at it. I held the province I wanted, I even managed to pick off 2 or 3 armies for more warscore. Just about as I hit around 90% warsocre in my favour, my sweet sister rebels to claim the kingdom. She called a couple of my vassals into the war on her side. I was at war with East Francia, Lotharingia and a civil war... but I still had my levies, substantial standing army and mercenaries. EF didn't have much troops left around, as they went off to another war in the west - with West Francia this time - so I turned around and caught the rebels in a battle, a 3200-ish strong force with 12 / 20 / 16 martial generals, facing off against a 2700-ish force under some lowlifes. On a plain. I still could pull this off.
I lost the goddamn battle with barely 300 troops left.
My dear brother then rebelled for his own claim, calling in the rest of my vassals and some baltic tribes he befriended. I've won the war against East Francia, but this right here was.. well, I was alone. To spite my dear brother, I surrendered to my sister, let them duke it out and then regain my throne through subterfuge, bribes, factionalism and so on, like I've done many times before in this game...
I married my daughter to the young king of Poland nearby to secure his aid in the coming conflict even. So what happens? The civil war drags on for another ten years. In the meantime, Poland goes into civil war and my ally loses his throne. My dear brother assassinates my heir, then captures the younger son, who dies in prison soon after.
Left with just daughters, I had to tone down my ambitions for now, wait it out and maybe get another heir and get back on the throne even later.
My dear character dies of typhus.
The heir is his oldest daughter - now married to a polish nobody. All her children are of the Piast dynasty.


There it is. From regional powerhouse to game over in about 30 minutes of real time.

[Satan]

Gothos, on 26 November 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

So I went back to this game this afternoon, with an attempt at making a reformed pagan Pomerania powerhouse for exporting for EU4, iron man mode, not using any saves whatsoever and...
I was reminded how quickly this game can turn around on you.
So I conquered the de iure Kingdom of Pomerania (excluding the East Francia held county of... somewhere) fairly quickly within just a few quick campaigns after subduing the duchy of Pomerania internally, even expanded into Prussia with no effort. Danes feared attacking me, Poland and Great Moravia couldn't stand up to me either, and I raided the border with East Francia with impunity as they were usually busy waging wars in the south and west anyway...
So I grew bold. I declared war for that one county I was missing. EF was at war with Italy for a claim, the war was pretty inconclusive at that point (around 40% warscore towards Italy after like 8 years of warfare) so I disbanded my raiding team and ran head first into them...
I didn't notice Lotharingia, which they immediately called into the war as allies, is also at war with Italy in a separate war for the same thing, and their warscore was... well, suffice to say that war ended about a week of gametime after I declared war on EF. So yeah, now do I wisely withdraw and take the gold and prestige hit? Or keep going to see how much I can get, maybe enough for a White Peace instead of surrender?
So I kept at it. I held the province I wanted, I even managed to pick off 2 or 3 armies for more warscore. Just about as I hit around 90% warsocre in my favour, my sweet sister rebels to claim the kingdom. She called a couple of my vassals into the war on her side. I was at war with East Francia, Lotharingia and a civil war... but I still had my levies, substantial standing army and mercenaries. EF didn't have much troops left around, as they went off to another war in the west - with West Francia this time - so I turned around and caught the rebels in a battle, a 3200-ish strong force with 12 / 20 / 16 martial generals, facing off against a 2700-ish force under some lowlifes. On a plain. I still could pull this off.
I lost the goddamn battle with barely 300 troops left.
My dear brother then rebelled for his own claim, calling in the rest of my vassals and some baltic tribes he befriended. I've won the war against East Francia, but this right here was.. well, I was alone. To spite my dear brother, I surrendered to my sister, let them duke it out and then regain my throne through subterfuge, bribes, factionalism and so on, like I've done many times before in this game...
I married my daughter to the young king of Poland nearby to secure his aid in the coming conflict even. So what happens? The civil war drags on for another ten years. In the meantime, Poland goes into civil war and my ally loses his throne. My dear brother assassinates my heir, then captures the younger son, who dies in prison soon after.
Left with just daughters, I had to tone down my ambitions for now, wait it out and maybe get another heir and get back on the throne even later.
My dear character dies of typhus.
The heir is his oldest daughter - now married to a polish nobody. All her children are of the Piast dynasty.


There it is. From regional powerhouse to game over in about 30 minutes of real time.

I love this game.

[Morgoth]

I'm playing EU4 right now, but Crusader Kings 2 is the most fun I've had playing a strategy game in years.

[Gothos]

I went back and spend about 2 hours trying to get a decent, non-suicidal starting random seed for Pomerania. Finally got one situation where my ruler isn't a simpleton, I could realistically plot to kill the count of either Slupsk or Gdansk while I'm still their heir, East Francia goes to war south instead of into Saxony, Great Moravia falls apart and Sjaelland turns elsewhere until I'm ready for them.
So yeah, that's a lot of conditions.
Currently my second ruler is 29 years old and doing well. Vassals love me, I have 2 duchies with 6 counties in my demesne, I'm rich from regular raids into East Francia and Bavaria...
Succession was interesting. My current ruler had 5 brothers. With gavelkind you can guess how much of a fuckup that is. Thankfully, one of the brothers killed another and there were just 4 rivals. Inheritance time came about. Created duchies of Weliburg (Mecklemburg), Brenneburg (Brandenburg) and usurped Saxony. My oldest brother who inherited Pomerelia was sitting in my dungeon already due to his scheme to kill another brother (which I let him succeed at). I hid the remaining two brothers under other vassals so they don't actually become my direct vassals and can't factionalise. Fresh made dukes loved me. I ensured the little brother who inherited rana, weliburg and wolgost gets duchy of mecklemburg - with me as his heir and tutor. He was the first to fall to my plots, with ~280% plot power. Right after I killed his younger brother who inherited Rostock, with plot power of like 320%. Unfortunately, my complicity was discovered in both cases and my family hated me.
Unfortunately for them, it wasn't going to last long - they were going down, and fast. Plots, plots, plots. Murdered one of the brothers with intrigue, and the imprisone one I executed, taking the -20 rep and -10 piety hit without blinking. Stuffed inherited lands into the hands of capable, fresh vassals and I was set.
I might also add that prior to this succession thing, I ensured as the previous ruler that my eldest son will be well protected - arranged bethrothal and forged marriage between the heir and the freshly made King of Poland's sweet daughter - in case of a crisis he'd have an ally to call on (and Poland has started blobbing like crazy).

So I'm wondering now - I started doing conquests against danes and lithuania for religion moral authroity and to keep busy. Two options I can see happening soon would be subjugation of Poland (just to wait for a succession while they're weak) or subjugation of Bohemia (which killed off Great Moravia and is now in a civil war itself). Bohemia would give me a slight increase in power, while subjugating Poland would bring a second holy site under my control and give me a great starting point for launching either subjugation or a series of conquests to reach Kiev and a 3rd holy site, paving the way for reformation. I'd still have to either push towards bulgaria or novogrod to get another holy site to make the moral authority conditions for reformation - either that or get really serious looting and pillaging temples and doing more conquests. And if fellow slavic believers could stop getting converted and ruining my efforts.... that'd be great.

[Gothos]

Riiiiight. This game is sometimes really, really fucking annoying.

I've subjugated Lithuania, and after that Poland, forming the Wendish Empire eventually - nothing much spectacular here, just the usual stuff with unruly vassal wars.
Oh wait, one of the unruly vassal wars... Polotsk led a revolt against my rule, took quite a while and quite a bit in merc fees to beat that down, and at 99% fucking warscore the leader of the revolt died, whole war stopped. Not a month later his heir did the very same thing and I had to fight the same war twice. Annoying as FUCK.
So I formed the Wendish Empire, Szczecin is its capital and in the very forefront of tech 12/13/13 right now in 993-ish. I've done some scheming to forge claims on Novogrod, Kiev and Birlad and took them just to reform the Slavic faith. Crown authority is currently Medium in the empire and all 3 kingdoms within. I've also done some small conquests, bringing duchies of Estonia and Holstein into the fold. I'm pretty strong, definately the strongest state save for the unified Persia and two or three muslim sultanates, but they're all far away. I'm allied with Rus, Bohemia and Denmark through multiple marriages.

So you could say things are going good, right?
WRONG. Some cousin of mine gathered forces as an adventurer to claim Pomerania. Big deal, eh? I'm a fucking Empire! Bring it on! To be safe I'm running a plot to kill him with over 100% plot power, for several years now with no effect... and his army arrived.
With all my realm and vassal levies and all the mercs money could buy I was at 21k troops.
He brought 35k. Wiped the floor with my army, annihilated it with like 4k casualties, despite me having way better generals, army composition, technology and terrain bonus.

Sooo yeah. Great event, Paradox! Now I just have to hope the plot finally succeeds, or just live with losing Pomerania, which is like the most important thing I wanted when I started this playthrough. Now he's going to keep his event troops AND grab my super capital I've been working for a hundred years on? Screw that.