[Karosis]

Ampelas, on 07 June 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

Korbas, on 07 June 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

He doesn't have 4 LPs, he has 4 lives.

Only if lynched. Interpreting the OP directly, he has only one life if he dies by NAs/DAs. But either way, it takes 4 lynches to kill him, and only 2 to kill a CL, so by the logic you used that is severe discouragement of us trying to kill BM. But obviously we need to do that, so I don't agree that an LP necessarily means we are not "supposed" to remove CLs.

Actually, here's the direct quote from the OP:

Quote

Batman rules:
BAtman is a predator. he is very hard to kill and has numeorus powers to help him take down the recruiters.
if he is lynched, the executives may meddle and use "Dramatic Twist" to prolong the life of the show. Batman can designate a sucessor, Big-Ben/Gozer style. anyone who is not a recruiter may be a successor.
Once the Batman is killed 4 times, the ratings will plummet and show will be cancelled. The faction with the most members at the time of his death will be declared the winners.
NOTE: if Batman is killed during the night, the numbers will be based on next morning's numbers. IF he dies during the day, the numbers will be based on end-of day.

Now that quite clearly says "killed", not "lynched". I read this as the Batman having 4 lives overall.

[Telas]

Ampelas, on 07 June 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

Telas, on 07 June 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 07 June 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

Korbas, on 07 June 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

He doesn't have 4 LPs, he has 4 lives.

Only if lynched. Interpreting the OP directly, he has only one life if he dies by NAs/DAs. But either way, it takes 4 lynches to kill him, and only 2 to kill a CL, so by the logic you used that is severe discouragement of us trying to kill BM. But obviously we need to do that, so I don't agree that an LP necessarily means we are not "supposed" to remove CLs.

What? Batman has 4 lives. It doesn't matter how they are taken off him. Might be night kill, might be lynch. But once he's been murderised 4 times in some way, it's over.

What we've been speculating is that Batman is properly easier to lynch (i.e. only takes one lynch) than to kill directly (because of BPs or other abilities) - simply because clearly the CLs have lynch-proofs. If Batman did too, that would suck royally.

From the OP: "if he is lynched, the executives may meddle and use "Dramatic Twist" to prolong the life of the show. Batman can designate a sucessor, Big-Ben/Gozer style. anyone who is not a recruiter may be a successor."

"If he is lynched", not "if he is killed"

read the OP properly next time

You know, just because this game is played anonymously doesn't mean you have to behave like an asshole all the time.

And I sincerely hope that lynch DOES equate to kill (as in, it takes one life away), because the next line from the OP is 'once Batman has been killed 4 times.' What would be the point of trying to lynch Batman at all then if lynching did not equate to taking one life away? And presumably with all his Predator-like protection one can't just kill him by simply targetting him once either. No, I know killing Batman is supposed to be hard, but that would be beyond ridiculous.

This post has been edited by Telas: 07 June 2012 - 04:02 PM

[Karosis]

Fener, on 07 June 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Karosis, on 07 June 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

Hmm, OK something else just popped into my head. Maybe the Batman can reflect NKs? If Korbas were the Batman, that would explain why Meanas is dead today. No time to do analysis right now, but maybe something someone with time could have a look into...

Actually, this is giving me vibes that Korbas is Batman. I don't have a lot of evidence to back this up right now but that is my gut instinct right now. He claims roled town - nice cover after we've seen others go down - but he's been actively involved and doing a lot of leading on thread, as well as provoking. I can't explain it fully but I think Korbas is Batman. So for now:

Vote Korbas

I don't know if you've finished reading the thread yet, but Korbas has revealed as Scarecrow. I haven't quite made up my mind yet whether to believe him or not, but it does fit the facts, since he claims he had a BP.

[Fener]

Karosis, on 07 June 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

Fener, on 07 June 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Karosis, on 07 June 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

Hmm, OK something else just popped into my head. Maybe the Batman can reflect NKs? If Korbas were the Batman, that would explain why Meanas is dead today. No time to do analysis right now, but maybe something someone with time could have a look into...

Actually, this is giving me vibes that Korbas is Batman. I don't have a lot of evidence to back this up right now but that is my gut instinct right now. He claims roled town - nice cover after we've seen others go down - but he's been actively involved and doing a lot of leading on thread, as well as provoking. I can't explain it fully but I think Korbas is Batman. So for now:

Vote Korbas

I don't know if you've finished reading the thread yet, but Korbas has revealed as Scarecrow. I haven't quite made up my mind yet whether to believe him or not, but it does fit the facts, since he claims he had a BP.

I don't know if you read my post at all - since I SAID HE REVEALED AS ROLED TOWN, I.E., SCARECROW. And I'm not sure that roled town would have BPs. Solomon Gundy was vigged, correct? No BP there.

[Ampelas]

Telas, on 07 June 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

You know, just because this game is played anonymously doesn't mean you have to behave like an asshole all the time.

says the guy who felt the need to have an all-caps, supersized hissy fit because I was commenting as I read up?

Telas, on 07 June 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

And I sincerely hope that lynch DOES equate to kill (as in, it takes one life away), because the next line from the OP is 'once Batman has been killed 4 times.' What would be the point of trying to lynch Batman at all then if lynching did not equate to taking one life away? And presumably with all his Predator-like protection one can't just kill him by simply targetting him once either. No, I know killing Batman is supposed to be hard, but that would be beyond ridiculous.

Well, I would imagine the role has like 8 BPs that carry over from alt to alt when the succession mechanic kicks in. So you need eithe 4 lynches or a lot of cumulative NKs to kill him, but the two don't help each other. It's perfectly reasonable.

And yeah, there's the "killed 4 times" line later on, but Ment is notoriously bad for OPs like that so IMO it could easily go either way.

[Fener]

I have a question - the CLs seem to have a lot of protection - BPs, LPs. Do they have NKs? I doubt it. If they can recruit, kill, and are lynchproof, and bulletproof - and there's 4 of them - and Batman has to kill them all to win - this seems impossible.

So who has NKs as part of their role? My guess is, only Batman. Or a roled townie - either from the start, or one who stumbled on a cache of weapons.

[Karosis]

Fener, on 07 June 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

I don't know if you read my post at all - since I SAID HE REVEALED AS ROLED TOWN, I.E., SCARECROW. And I'm not sure that roled town would have BPs. Solomon Gundy was vigged, correct? No BP there.

Reading comprehension fail on my part. My apologies. I don't quite see the point of comparing a Scarecrow claim with Solomon Grundy though - it's not like they're the same role, so why would they have the same abilities?

[Fener]

Karosis, on 07 June 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Fener, on 07 June 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

I don't know if you read my post at all - since I SAID HE REVEALED AS ROLED TOWN, I.E., SCARECROW. And I'm not sure that roled town would have BPs. Solomon Gundy was vigged, correct? No BP there.

Reading comprehension fail on my part. My apologies. I don't quite see the point of comparing a Scarecrow claim with Solomon Grundy though - it's not like they're the same role, so why would they have the same abilities?

Who knows what abilities they have? We have no idea. We DO know that Gundy didn't have a BP. We are already assuming all CLs have the same abilties/protection. My point is that a BP doesn't fit the flavor of "Scarecrow" and so I don't know why he would have a BP if Gundy didn't. Original roled townies....I just doubt they have that sort of protection. Obviously I can't say any of that for sure, though.

[Korbas]

Fener, on 07 June 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

Karosis, on 07 June 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

Fener, on 07 June 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Karosis, on 07 June 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

Hmm, OK something else just popped into my head. Maybe the Batman can reflect NKs? If Korbas were the Batman, that would explain why Meanas is dead today. No time to do analysis right now, but maybe something someone with time could have a look into...

Actually, this is giving me vibes that Korbas is Batman. I don't have a lot of evidence to back this up right now but that is my gut instinct right now. He claims roled town - nice cover after we've seen others go down - but he's been actively involved and doing a lot of leading on thread, as well as provoking. I can't explain it fully but I think Korbas is Batman. So for now:

Vote Korbas

I don't know if you've finished reading the thread yet, but Korbas has revealed as Scarecrow. I haven't quite made up my mind yet whether to believe him or not, but it does fit the facts, since he claims he had a BP.

I don't know if you read my post at all - since I SAID HE REVEALED AS ROLED TOWN, I.E., SCARECROW. And I'm not sure that roled town would have BPs. Solomon Gundy was vigged, correct? No BP there.

My role is the BP. That's my only role. I haven't been offered any choices or anything, that's what I started with, and that's all I've had.

[Telas]

Ampelas, on 07 June 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

Telas, on 07 June 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

You know, just because this game is played anonymously doesn't mean you have to behave like an asshole all the time.

says the guy who felt the need to have an all-caps, supersized hissy fit because I was commenting as I read up?

Hissy fit? I was just trying to get your attention and make you stop posting irrelevent, out-of-date comments. How hard is it to read up, take notes while you're doing it, and then cross out anything which has been resolved? Well, perhaps that's harder for some than for others....

Ampelas, on 07 June 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

Telas, on 07 June 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

And I sincerely hope that lynch DOES equate to kill (as in, it takes one life away), because the next line from the OP is 'once Batman has been killed 4 times.' What would be the point of trying to lynch Batman at all then if lynching did not equate to taking one life away? And presumably with all his Predator-like protection one can't just kill him by simply targetting him once either. No, I know killing Batman is supposed to be hard, but that would be beyond ridiculous.

Well, I would imagine the role has like 8 BPs that carry over from alt to alt when the succession mechanic kicks in. So you need eithe 4 lynches or a lot of cumulative NKs to kill him, but the two don't help each other. It's perfectly reasonable.

And yeah, there's the "killed 4 times" line later on, but Ment is notoriously bad for OPs like that so IMO it could easily go either way.

Yep, and I can imagine a scenarion where Godzilla is summoned and destroys all of Gotham around us while Thyrllan plays the ukelele. Doesn't make it very likely, though.


The way you so stubbornly hold on to every statement you make is actually pretty funny

[Karosis]

Ampelas, on 07 June 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

And yeah, there's the "killed 4 times" line later on, but Ment is notoriously bad for OPs like that so IMO it could easily go either way.

There is no way it is reasonable to have 4 Big Ben mechanics happen in addition to defence against being killed at night (I can't see the Batman not having some night defences, can you?). A single Big Ben is a strictly stronger version of the Faceless Man (no discontinuity in voice because there's no alt switching, and switching happens automatically when someone is lynched so you don't have to worry about keeping ahead of people chasing after you). But 4 iterations? That's insane. The only way it makes any sense as an interpretation is if the Batman has to be killed 4 times, but is Big Benned if he dies via lynch.

[Fener]

Korbas, on 07 June 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

Fener, on 07 June 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

Karosis, on 07 June 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

Fener, on 07 June 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Karosis, on 07 June 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

Hmm, OK something else just popped into my head. Maybe the Batman can reflect NKs? If Korbas were the Batman, that would explain why Meanas is dead today. No time to do analysis right now, but maybe something someone with time could have a look into...

Actually, this is giving me vibes that Korbas is Batman. I don't have a lot of evidence to back this up right now but that is my gut instinct right now. He claims roled town - nice cover after we've seen others go down - but he's been actively involved and doing a lot of leading on thread, as well as provoking. I can't explain it fully but I think Korbas is Batman. So for now:

Vote Korbas

I don't know if you've finished reading the thread yet, but Korbas has revealed as Scarecrow. I haven't quite made up my mind yet whether to believe him or not, but it does fit the facts, since he claims he had a BP.

I don't know if you read my post at all - since I SAID HE REVEALED AS ROLED TOWN, I.E., SCARECROW. And I'm not sure that roled town would have BPs. Solomon Gundy was vigged, correct? No BP there.

My role is the BP. That's my only role. I haven't been offered any choices or anything, that's what I started with, and that's all I've had.

Hmm. Convenient. Entirely possible, but I just don't know whether to believe you. Theoretically you could be a CL or BM and still have a BP.

Also, why give townies BPs? What sense would that make? There's been a lot of discussion about how hard it will be for town to win, just based on the CL powers and Batman's total lack of doing anything so far, as well as being impossible to find or kill yet. Based on this info, people are assuming most town members will get recruited. Hell, we shot and lynched Two-Face/Eloth and he's still around. Seems hard to prevent recruitment. So why give a town member a BP? How does that help town?

[Karosis]

Fener, on 07 June 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

Karosis, on 07 June 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Fener, on 07 June 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

I don't know if you read my post at all - since I SAID HE REVEALED AS ROLED TOWN, I.E., SCARECROW. And I'm not sure that roled town would have BPs. Solomon Gundy was vigged, correct? No BP there.

Reading comprehension fail on my part. My apologies. I don't quite see the point of comparing a Scarecrow claim with Solomon Grundy though - it's not like they're the same role, so why would they have the same abilities?

Who knows what abilities they have? We have no idea. We DO know that Gundy didn't have a BP. We are already assuming all CLs have the same abilties/protection. My point is that a BP doesn't fit the flavor of "Scarecrow" and so I don't know why he would have a BP if Gundy didn't. Original roled townies....I just doubt they have that sort of protection. Obviously I can't say any of that for sure, though.

Scarecrow is a well-known enough Batman villain that I'd expect him to be in the game in some form. So if this is a fake claim, then I would expect someone else to counterclaim. But you're right that BP doesn't really mesh with what you'd expect the Scarecrow to have.

[Korbas]

Fener, on 07 June 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

Hmm. Convenient. Entirely possible, but I just don't know whether to believe you. Theoretically you could be a CL or BM and still have a BP.

Also, why give townies BPs? What sense would that make? There's been a lot of discussion about how hard it will be for town to win, just based on the CL powers and Batman's total lack of doing anything so far, as well as being impossible to find or kill yet. Based on this info, people are assuming most town members will get recruited. Hell, we shot and lynched Two-Face/Eloth and he's still around. Seems hard to prevent recruitment. So why give a town member a BP? How does that help town?

It was given to me as a token of respect to my villain status. I have no idea how it helps town. No protection from day vigs, only nks.

[Korbas]

Scarecrow is known for the hallucinogenic gas. The only thing I can think of would be the gas used as a protection against people who try to get me, so I can get away.

[Fener]

Karosis, on 07 June 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

Fener, on 07 June 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

Karosis, on 07 June 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Fener, on 07 June 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

I don't know if you read my post at all - since I SAID HE REVEALED AS ROLED TOWN, I.E., SCARECROW. And I'm not sure that roled town would have BPs. Solomon Gundy was vigged, correct? No BP there.

Reading comprehension fail on my part. My apologies. I don't quite see the point of comparing a Scarecrow claim with Solomon Grundy though - it's not like they're the same role, so why would they have the same abilities?

Who knows what abilities they have? We have no idea. We DO know that Gundy didn't have a BP. We are already assuming all CLs have the same abilties/protection. My point is that a BP doesn't fit the flavor of "Scarecrow" and so I don't know why he would have a BP if Gundy didn't. Original roled townies....I just doubt they have that sort of protection. Obviously I can't say any of that for sure, though.

Scarecrow is a well-known enough Batman villain that I'd expect him to be in the game in some form. So if this is a fake claim, then I would expect someone else to counterclaim. But you're right that BP doesn't really mesh with what you'd expect the Scarecrow to have.

I think the logic of expecting any villains besides the ones listed in the OP to be in the game is totally flawed. Like, no one would have just assumed out of nowhere that Solomon Gundy would be in the game. Just because Scarecrow is part of Batman mythos doesn't mean he's is a confirmed role in the game.

[Fener]

Korbas, on 07 June 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

Fener, on 07 June 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

Hmm. Convenient. Entirely possible, but I just don't know whether to believe you. Theoretically you could be a CL or BM and still have a BP.

Also, why give townies BPs? What sense would that make? There's been a lot of discussion about how hard it will be for town to win, just based on the CL powers and Batman's total lack of doing anything so far, as well as being impossible to find or kill yet. Based on this info, people are assuming most town members will get recruited. Hell, we shot and lynched Two-Face/Eloth and he's still around. Seems hard to prevent recruitment. So why give a town member a BP? How does that help town?

It was given to me as a token of respect to my villain status. I have no idea how it helps town. No protection from day vigs, only nks.

You know...this sounds like Batman telling the truth to me. If both town and and the other factions' VCs are to kill Batman while having plurality, and now we're seeing BOTH recruits and town members getting and using day vigs...maybe that is one of the primary methods we are supposed to use to kill Batman. Even the OP makes it sound unlikely that Batman would be lynched. So if he probably won't get lynched, and CLs have no NKs....how would Batman die?

Day vigs. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm..

[Karosis]

Telas, on 07 June 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

I think we need to get started on properly voting. Based on the fact that he's been on the trains both days, and didn't know about the weapons cache choice, and that he was reacting favourably to an Osseric as Batman lynch back on day 1,

Vote Rashan



If a cult leader would like to claim Rashan as their own, then I will remove vote and look elsewhere.

Actually, this is a really good idea. The Cults need our cooperation to hunt the Batman? Well, they can pay for that by letting us know if we're on the wrong track. There are still potentially as many as 4 recruits running around, right? (There will have been 2 on the first night, since I know there were two blocked, and 4 on the second night, but we've had two deaths from cult recruits leaving 4 remaining. I'm assuming Eloth was lying about the double-recruit, but if not, then I guess there could be a few more than that). It'd be good to not hit one of those today.

Before I switch to Rashan though, I think it would be a good idea to figure out exactly what the game plan is here. How long do we wait for confirmation/denial from the CLs? I want to take a closer look at all of the options that people have raised - my general impression is that Rashan is as good as any of them, but I'd like to back that up with a genuine reread. I'll be able to do that this evening...until then I can follow the thread but not much more.

[Telas]

Fener, on 07 June 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

You know...this sounds like Batman telling the truth to me. If both town and and the other factions' VCs are to kill Batman while having plurality, and now we're seeing BOTH recruits and town members getting and using day vigs...maybe that is one of the primary methods we are supposed to use to kill Batman. Even the OP makes it sound unlikely that Batman would be lynched. So if he probably won't get lynched, and CLs have no NKs....how would Batman die?

Day vigs. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm..

As I said earlier in reference to Meanas, the cache of weapons also included an NK ability instead of a day vig. Clearly you also have not been given this opportunity. So...what does that make you Fener?

[Telas]

Karosis, on 07 June 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Telas, on 07 June 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

I think we need to get started on properly voting. Based on the fact that he's been on the trains both days, and didn't know about the weapons cache choice, and that he was reacting favourably to an Osseric as Batman lynch back on day 1,

Vote Rashan



If a cult leader would like to claim Rashan as their own, then I will remove vote and look elsewhere.

Actually, this is a really good idea. The Cults need our cooperation to hunt the Batman? Well, they can pay for that by letting us know if we're on the wrong track. There are still potentially as many as 4 recruits running around, right? (There will have been 2 on the first night, since I know there were two blocked, and 4 on the second night, but we've had two deaths from cult recruits leaving 4 remaining. I'm assuming Eloth was lying about the double-recruit, but if not, then I guess there could be a few more than that). It'd be good to not hit one of those today.

Before I switch to Rashan though, I think it would be a good idea to figure out exactly what the game plan is here. How long do we wait for confirmation/denial from the CLs? I want to take a closer look at all of the options that people have raised - my general impression is that Rashan is as good as any of them, but I'd like to back that up with a genuine reread. I'll be able to do that this evening...until then I can follow the thread but not much more.

I'll wait with my vote on Rashan for however long it takes for either a) a CL to say he's a recruit, b ) Rashan to come up with a convincing argument why he's not Batman, or c) Someone comes up with an even better option.

If none of those things happen, then I'm comfortable with a Rashan lynch.

As I said some time ago, there's about 12 or 13 potential alts still out there for Batman - with the CLs clearly unwilling thus far to reveal anything about their recruits (understandable from their point of view - if selfish and short-termist), I don't see what better thing we can do.