[Eloth]

Vote Osseric

For being Batman. Speculation, mind - but he is too interested to milk me for information that is of little use to town and cult, but will benefit Batman.

[Osseric]

I do not think you tried to recruit Amp. I do not think you know which CL he is, just guessing. I think you just want to make sure Amp dies for outting you. Tell me who the other CL to target Karosis with you was if you want to buy some credibility. I think you are only assuming Amp is a CL, therefore you are choosing one of three, possibly only one of two sinse you should know who else claimed Karosis with you.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2, 23 hours and 43 minutes left.

21 players remaining alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Anthras, Atrahal, D'riss, Eloth, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Spite, Telas, Thyrllan, Tulas Shorn

it takes 12 votes to lynch or 11 go to night.

1 vote for Liosan (Meanas)
3 vote for Eloth (Omtose, Tulas Shorn, Osseric)
1 vote for Osseric (Eloth)

The Following people have not voted:
21 players remaining alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Anthras, Atrahal, D'riss, Eloth, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Osseric, Rashan, Spite, Telas, Thyrllan, Tulas Shorn

-Liz

[Osseric]

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

If you targetted Karosis, then you also know who the other CL to target Karosis was. Who was it?

You know that Amp is The Joker because you say you tried to recruit him. So who else targetted Karosis with you?

Sorry Batman, not going to tell you. It is neither in my interest nor in that of town.

You say as town I shouldn't be trying to get info from you? As ANY faction I would want info from you if you're going to provide it. Like I said I do not think you know who Amp is. And why do you care about the interest of town? And why do you not think it is not in the interest of town to want to know who else targetted Karosis with you, thus finding another CL. Seriously, are you going to play dumb now?

[Eloth]

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

I do not think you tried to recruit Amp. I do not think you know which CL he is, just guessing. I think you just want to make sure Amp dies for outting you. Tell me who the other CL to target Karosis with you was if you want to buy some credibility. I think you are only assuming Amp is a CL, therefore you are choosing one of three, possibly only one of two sinse you should know who else claimed Karosis with you.

Let's put it this way, stud. You have absolutely nothing you can offer me and therefore nothing you can demand of me. If you let me off the hook for all the info I give you (even if you keep your word and won't vote me), there's still a ton of players out there who will. I am not going to live for much longer and I am actually OK with that. I have no minions, which means my faults on day 1 will cause no-one to lose the game alongside me (yeah, I care about that).


Now, why would I lie about Ampelas being the Joker? You're being dense here, either on purpose or by general stupidity.

We know recruiters do finds when double recruiting or targeting a recruiter. A recruiter can easily masquerade as a finder. Your recruit works, you say your target is town, protecting your own guy. Heck, you're even right about the alignment as find comes before recruit. Your recruit fails, you learn the identity of the other recruiter, which is a scum find.
AKA: mission accomplished, cover established.

[Eloth]

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

If you targetted Karosis, then you also know who the other CL to target Karosis was. Who was it?

You know that Amp is The Joker because you say you tried to recruit him. So who else targetted Karosis with you?

Sorry Batman, not going to tell you. It is neither in my interest nor in that of town.

You say as town I shouldn't be trying to get info from you? As ANY faction I would want info from you if you're going to provide it. Like I said I do not think you know who Amp is. And why do you care about the interest of town? And why do you not think it is not in the interest of town to want to know who else targetted Karosis with you, thus finding another CL. Seriously, are you going to play dumb now?

It is not in the interest of town to have 3 CL out in the open since it isn't in their VC that they must get rid of them. They must get rid of the Batman. 4 times. Now, I don't know how fast batman is. But it is my guess that he can chew through one of us in a day + night cycle. 2 CLs in the open is already quite a speed up for him. 3 is downright ridiculous and would hand him the game.

Since this is not on your mind, I say you are not town.

[Osseric]

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

I do not think you tried to recruit Amp. I do not think you know which CL he is, just guessing. I think you just want to make sure Amp dies for outting you. Tell me who the other CL to target Karosis with you was if you want to buy some credibility. I think you are only assuming Amp is a CL, therefore you are choosing one of three, possibly only one of two sinse you should know who else claimed Karosis with you.

Let's put it this way, stud. You have absolutely nothing you can offer me and therefore nothing you can demand of me. If you let me off the hook for all the info I give you (even if you keep your word and won't vote me), there's still a ton of players out there who will. I am not going to live for much longer and I am actually OK with that. I have no minions, which means my faults on day 1 will cause no-one to lose the game alongside me (yeah, I care about that).


Now, why would I lie about Ampelas being the Joker? You're being dense here, either on purpose or by general stupidity.

We know recruiters do finds when double recruiting or targeting a recruiter. A recruiter can easily masquerade as a finder. Your recruit works, you say your target is town, protecting your own guy. Heck, you're even right about the alignment as find comes before recruit. Your recruit fails, you learn the identity of the other recruiter, which is a scum find.
AKA: mission accomplished, cover established.

So you are ok with outting Amp, but not ok with outting who the CL to target Karosis with you was. Why? You say you know who Amp is because you targetted him. I doubt that. I think he is still possibly one of the CLs, but doubt you know which. I think you did not target Karosis, either. And I think you know you are going to die, and you are saying you have no recruits to cover for them. I bet you have at least one out there and you claimed that Karosis was your other target by mistake.

[Eloth]

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 08:26 AM, said:

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

I do not think you tried to recruit Amp. I do not think you know which CL he is, just guessing. I think you just want to make sure Amp dies for outting you. Tell me who the other CL to target Karosis with you was if you want to buy some credibility. I think you are only assuming Amp is a CL, therefore you are choosing one of three, possibly only one of two sinse you should know who else claimed Karosis with you.

Let's put it this way, stud. You have absolutely nothing you can offer me and therefore nothing you can demand of me. If you let me off the hook for all the info I give you (even if you keep your word and won't vote me), there's still a ton of players out there who will. I am not going to live for much longer and I am actually OK with that. I have no minions, which means my faults on day 1 will cause no-one to lose the game alongside me (yeah, I care about that).


Now, why would I lie about Ampelas being the Joker? You're being dense here, either on purpose or by general stupidity.

We know recruiters do finds when double recruiting or targeting a recruiter. A recruiter can easily masquerade as a finder. Your recruit works, you say your target is town, protecting your own guy. Heck, you're even right about the alignment as find comes before recruit. Your recruit fails, you learn the identity of the other recruiter, which is a scum find.
AKA: mission accomplished, cover established.

So you are ok with outting Amp, but not ok with outting who the CL to target Karosis with you was. Why? You say you know who Amp is because you targetted him. I doubt that. I think he is still possibly one of the CLs, but doubt you know which. I think you did not target Karosis, either. And I think you know you are going to die, and you are saying you have no recruits to cover for them. I bet you have at least one out there and you claimed that Karosis was your other target by mistake.

Heads: I'll tell you to get your head out of your ass and cleanse your mouth so you stop spouting diarrhoea.
Tails: I won't bother.

[Osseric]

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

If you targetted Karosis, then you also know who the other CL to target Karosis was. Who was it?

You know that Amp is The Joker because you say you tried to recruit him. So who else targetted Karosis with you?

Sorry Batman, not going to tell you. It is neither in my interest nor in that of town.

You say as town I shouldn't be trying to get info from you? As ANY faction I would want info from you if you're going to provide it. Like I said I do not think you know who Amp is. And why do you care about the interest of town? And why do you not think it is not in the interest of town to want to know who else targetted Karosis with you, thus finding another CL. Seriously, are you going to play dumb now?

It is not in the interest of town to have 3 CL out in the open since it isn't in their VC that they must get rid of them. They must get rid of the Batman. 4 times. Now, I don't know how fast batman is. But it is my guess that he can chew through one of us in a day + night cycle. 2 CLs in the open is already quite a speed up for him. 3 is downright ridiculous and would hand him the game.

Since this is not on your mind, I say you are not town.

Bullshit. Why would you be sympathetic to town needs? Ask any town in this game if they want to know who all the CLs are. You are out of your mind. You're protecting your recruit/recruits. If you had nothing to live for you sure as hell would not care about what town wants or not. We will be wary as to why Amp would out you, knowing you would out him in return. Perhaps he outted you before you could out him. The only thing all of this shows is that you will die, and Amp will be looked at very closely.

[Eloth]

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 08:26 AM, said:

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

I do not think you tried to recruit Amp. I do not think you know which CL he is, just guessing. I think you just want to make sure Amp dies for outting you. Tell me who the other CL to target Karosis with you was if you want to buy some credibility. I think you are only assuming Amp is a CL, therefore you are choosing one of three, possibly only one of two sinse you should know who else claimed Karosis with you.

Let's put it this way, stud. You have absolutely nothing you can offer me and therefore nothing you can demand of me. If you let me off the hook for all the info I give you (even if you keep your word and won't vote me), there's still a ton of players out there who will. I am not going to live for much longer and I am actually OK with that. I have no minions, which means my faults on day 1 will cause no-one to lose the game alongside me (yeah, I care about that).


Now, why would I lie about Ampelas being the Joker? You're being dense here, either on purpose or by general stupidity.

We know recruiters do finds when double recruiting or targeting a recruiter. A recruiter can easily masquerade as a finder. Your recruit works, you say your target is town, protecting your own guy. Heck, you're even right about the alignment as find comes before recruit. Your recruit fails, you learn the identity of the other recruiter, which is a scum find.
AKA: mission accomplished, cover established.

So you are ok with outting Amp, but not ok with outting who the CL to target Karosis with you was. Why? You say you know who Amp is because you targetted him. I doubt that. I think he is still possibly one of the CLs, but doubt you know which. I think you did not target Karosis, either. And I think you know you are going to die, and you are saying you have no recruits to cover for them. I bet you have at least one out there and you claimed that Karosis was your other target by mistake.

Outing Amp is an insurance policy. It increases the chance that town will decide to leave him and me for the Batman, instead of just lynching me and be done with it.
It is indeed also a bit of payback, for I spent a gazillion hours on getting off the hook yesterday. Those were fun moments, and I was prepared to do so again. But since everybody once more immediately believes a finder reveal without even considering that this might be one CL outing another, and since that reveal comes on top of all my wiggling of yesterday plus the SL find in my Two Face Radio broadcast, I am doomed. Going quietly is however
A) not beneficial to the game;
not in the character of the supervillain I am playing;
C) not in my own character.

So I'll stir the shit once more.

Now, enough about me. Let's talk about you.
You have gone to considerable length to protect Amp's finder status. I wonder why, when you have no proof whatsoever for it and I already laid out the scenario how a CL can pretend to be a finder, which you haven't deigned to respond to, anyhow.


If you are a regular townie, you're being blind-eyed stupid but a lot of townies become blinkered idiot ship as soon as they have a finder reveal, whether true or not, because they then can just follow the finder without having to think for themselves.
If you are The Joker's recruit, you're protecting him, simple as that.
If you are another CL, you have no reason whatsoever to do this - therefore, it is a way to reinforce the cover of being you're a townie yourself.
If you are Batman, you will want town to lynch me so you can go quietly after the second CL. The chance they'll lynch me has been lessened somewhat now that I outed the Joker.

[Eloth]

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

If you targetted Karosis, then you also know who the other CL to target Karosis was. Who was it?

You know that Amp is The Joker because you say you tried to recruit him. So who else targetted Karosis with you?

Sorry Batman, not going to tell you. It is neither in my interest nor in that of town.

You say as town I shouldn't be trying to get info from you? As ANY faction I would want info from you if you're going to provide it. Like I said I do not think you know who Amp is. And why do you care about the interest of town? And why do you not think it is not in the interest of town to want to know who else targetted Karosis with you, thus finding another CL. Seriously, are you going to play dumb now?

It is not in the interest of town to have 3 CL out in the open since it isn't in their VC that they must get rid of them. They must get rid of the Batman. 4 times. Now, I don't know how fast batman is. But it is my guess that he can chew through one of us in a day + night cycle. 2 CLs in the open is already quite a speed up for him. 3 is downright ridiculous and would hand him the game.

Since this is not on your mind, I say you are not town.

Bullshit. Why would you be sympathetic to town needs? Ask any town in this game if they want to know who all the CLs are. You are out of your mind. You're protecting your recruit/recruits. If you had nothing to live for you sure as hell would not care about what town wants or not. We will be wary as to why Amp would out you, knowing you would out him in return. Perhaps he outted you before you could out him. The only thing all of this shows is that you will die, and Amp will be looked at very closely.

Ok, I'll rise to the bait.

Please town, tell me, do you think it is in your best interest and beneficial to your chances to win the game to have 2 or more (after all, it might have been that Amp also recruited Karosis, hmm?) cult leaders outed on thread? Do you agree on this with Batman Osseric? Be honest now!

[Eloth]

6 readers, no comments? Tsk tsk. Mice.

[Osseric]

Let me sum up what you're implying here, Eloth.

1)You have a one time double-recruit.

2)You used it Night 1 targetting Amp and Karosis.

3)You know that Amp is The Joker because you tried to recruit him, which would also tell him who you were.

4)You targetted Karosis therefore also knowing the identity of another CL.

5)You claim town should not be interested in knowing who the CLs are.

6)You have no recruits.

Just making sure I have it all correctly. I guess we really need to hear what Amp has to say, as well as maybe what the other CL that you claim to know the identity of has to say. Did not Ivy in her broadcast ask to talk to The Joker about something? Why should you trust you not to out her. I can actually understand what you're saying about learning the identity of all 4 CLs too soon. But that would not matter to you if you did not still have some recruits in the game. All we can really do now is wait to see what happens, and what Amp has to say in response. Should be good.

[Meanas]

Ok, wow, this game has taken a turn. So first I would like to establish that if all 4 CLs die, we end up with a BM win, and all other people win. Am I correct?

[Eloth]

Korvalain, on 06 June 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

Ampelas, on 06 June 2012 - 04:16 AM, said:

There's also been many suggestions of letting BM deal with Eloth. That's not a bad idea, but it does leave more people for him to hide under and there is the possibility he'll just go after the other 3 CLs and ignore Eloth like we do, so I'm not totally convinced on it. Will revisit the issue more in the morning when I'm thinking better.

This is a good point, what is to stop Batman from leaving it to town to deal with?

The fact that the longer the game drags on, the fewer players he'll have to hide amidst. When I considered potential outcomes day 1, I saw a distinct possibility for there being 2-3 CLs, 2-3 recruits and the last incarnation of Batman still being alive, if the Cult Leaders stuck to an omertà-style silence when finding one another. It is in Batman's very best interest to finish the CLs asap. After all, that is his VC. The sooner he achieves the kill of one or more of them, the more time he has to search for the others. The sooner he does it, the less chance there is that he has spent 1-2 lives already, improving his strategic position.

[Atrahal]

And I'm back, returning with the cornucopia of the day! What'd I miss, huh, huh?

*quick scan*

Oo-er. Reveals and travails aplenty! And you know what? I kinda feel betrayed now. I was convinced Eloth was town

[Osseric]

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 08:26 AM, said:

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

I do not think you tried to recruit Amp. I do not think you know which CL he is, just guessing. I think you just want to make sure Amp dies for outting you. Tell me who the other CL to target Karosis with you was if you want to buy some credibility. I think you are only assuming Amp is a CL, therefore you are choosing one of three, possibly only one of two sinse you should know who else claimed Karosis with you.

Let's put it this way, stud. You have absolutely nothing you can offer me and therefore nothing you can demand of me. If you let me off the hook for all the info I give you (even if you keep your word and won't vote me), there's still a ton of players out there who will. I am not going to live for much longer and I am actually OK with that. I have no minions, which means my faults on day 1 will cause no-one to lose the game alongside me (yeah, I care about that).


Now, why would I lie about Ampelas being the Joker? You're being dense here, either on purpose or by general stupidity.

We know recruiters do finds when double recruiting or targeting a recruiter. A recruiter can easily masquerade as a finder. Your recruit works, you say your target is town, protecting your own guy. Heck, you're even right about the alignment as find comes before recruit. Your recruit fails, you learn the identity of the other recruiter, which is a scum find.
AKA: mission accomplished, cover established.

So you are ok with outting Amp, but not ok with outting who the CL to target Karosis with you was. Why? You say you know who Amp is because you targetted him. I doubt that. I think he is still possibly one of the CLs, but doubt you know which. I think you did not target Karosis, either. And I think you know you are going to die, and you are saying you have no recruits to cover for them. I bet you have at least one out there and you claimed that Karosis was your other target by mistake.

Outing Amp is an insurance policy. It increases the chance that town will decide to leave him and me for the Batman, instead of just lynching me and be done with it.
It is indeed also a bit of payback, for I spent a gazillion hours on getting off the hook yesterday. Those were fun moments, and I was prepared to do so again. But since everybody once more immediately believes a finder reveal without even considering that this might be one CL outing another, and since that reveal comes on top of all my wiggling of yesterday plus the SL find in my Two Face Radio broadcast, I am doomed. Going quietly is however
A) not beneficial to the game;
not in the character of the supervillain I am playing;
C) not in my own character.

So I'll stir the shit once more.

Now, enough about me. Let's talk about you.
You have gone to considerable length to protect Amp's finder status. I wonder why, when you have no proof whatsoever for it and I already laid out the scenario how a CL can pretend to be a finder, which you haven't deigned to respond to, anyhow.


If you are a regular townie, you're being blind-eyed stupid but a lot of townies become blinkered idiot ship as soon as they have a finder reveal, whether true or not, because they then can just follow the finder without having to think for themselves.
If you are The Joker's recruit, you're protecting him, simple as that.
If you are another CL, you have no reason whatsoever to do this - therefore, it is a way to reinforce the cover of being you're a townie yourself.
If you are Batman, you will want town to lynch me so you can go quietly after the second CL. The chance they'll lynch me has been lessened somewhat now that I outed the Joker.

More complete Bullshit. I was the one to suggest that Amp was not a townie finder but another CL. ME. And you quoted this. So try again. I'm not in anyway defending Amp. If Amp is The Joker then that will take care of itself. I will grant you that you make sense about needing to balance the death of the CLs too soon vs killing Batman. But both of you are definately going to die if you are both CLs. Either by lynch, Batman, NK, etc. All that is left to do is to make town think that you were unable to recruit before you died. To humor you, if we were to let you off the hook, then Batman will kill you both anyway, right? Why should town allow you guys even a single night longer to recruit? What if we were to let you off the hook for info and go after Amp instead? Batman would still kill you, right? What options are left, Eloth? Would you have me not vote for you? You say Batman is more dangerous,so point him out. If not we have to take to go with what we have.

[Meanas]

Now what is interesting to me is how things are far more complex than I expected. The recruiters get 2 shots on day 1 (makes sense actually if you think about it). So here's what we know about the recruitment results as of now:

Joker: 2?
TF: 1 failed attempt on Joker, 1 failed attempt on another recruiter's choice
PI: 2?
Penguin: 2?

Now at most, that's 5 townies recruited, correct? SL is down which leaves us with 11 people to work with. I am assuming that the CLs can now only recruit once per night, which means if they are successful (which is more likely with Joker and TF working together to survive), we could end up with 7 town tomorrow (unless there is some more cross recruiting, etc).

Regardless, here's the situation as I see it: we need to nail BM 4 times. If this means we need 4 day-night cycles (assuming a lynch of batman followed by a NK of him is unlikely, which could be likely imho, I just don't know) to even allow one of the factions to win. With two CLs already known, BM could definitely chew through the cults faster than anyone could chew through him. Which means he wins, we don't, none of us.

I'm not sure lynching a CL is the best option at the moment...

[Eloth]

Meanas, on 06 June 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

Ok, wow, this game has taken a turn. So first I would like to establish that if all 4 CLs die, we end up with a BM win, and all other people win. Am I correct?

OK. that;s it. I am going to beg Lizra for a vig to use on you and anyone else who deserves a darwin award for playing in a game in which they don't even get the basics.
Honestly, this is bordering on stupidity. we've been playing for 40 hours and people still don't get the VCs but still think they can make a contribution to the game?

FUCKING HELL.




WHEN THE BATMAN WINS, EVERYONE ELSE LOSES.


TOWN IS A FACTION LIKE ANY OTHER AND NEEDS PLURALITY (AKA THE HIGHEST NUMBER OF MEMBERS, NOT NECESSARILY MAJORITY) WHEN THE BATMAN DIES FOR THE FINAL TIME.

HAVE THIS TATTOOED ON THE INSIDES OF YOUR EYELIDS. THEN LEARN TO READ.

TO BE 100% SURE YOU GET IT CORRECT, PLEASE ASK PATH-SHAPER TO PM YOU WITH THE VCs EXPLAINED TO YOU IN 1 SYLLABLE WORDS.


Then, and only then, are you allowed come back and play the game. FFS. You, sir, deserve an award for most disinterested townie of 2012. And since we're only halfway the game, I look forward to your further exploits on this front, maybe you can improve on your already spectacular track record by getting the VCs wrong on d-day in some other game.

[Eloth]

Meanas, on 06 June 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

Now what is interesting to me is how things are far more complex than I expected. The recruiters get 2 shots on day 1 (makes sense actually if you think about it). So here's what we know about the recruitment results as of now:

Joker: 2?
TF: 1 failed attempt on Joker, 1 failed attempt on another recruiter's choice
PI: 2?
Penguin: 2?

Now at most, that's 5 townies recruited, correct? SL is down which leaves us with 11 people to work with. I am assuming that the CLs can now only recruit once per night, which means if they are successful (which is more likely with Joker and TF working together to survive), we could end up with 7 town tomorrow (unless there is some more cross recruiting, etc).

Regardless, here's the situation as I see it: we need to nail BM 4 times. If this means we need 4 day-night cycles (assuming a lynch of batman followed by a NK of him is unlikely, which could be likely imho, I just don't know) to even allow one of the factions to win. With two CLs already known, BM could definitely chew through the cults faster than anyone could chew through him. Which means he wins, we don't, none of us.

I'm not sure lynching a CL is the best option at the moment...

This is a much better post.