[Thyrllan]

this game is trying to kill me. I still haven't caught up properly

However, I'm tempted to go with what Eloth is saying. If Osseric is the batman, town needs to lynch him right now. If he's not, we have our lynch target for tomorrow, and that will give us more time to look for the batman.

That said, it sounds a bit too good to be true and that has me worried.

[Osseric]

Meanas, on 06 June 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

Now what is interesting to me is how things are far more complex than I expected. The recruiters get 2 shots on day 1 (makes sense actually if you think about it). So here's what we know about the recruitment results as of now:

Joker: 2?
TF: 1 failed attempt on Joker, 1 failed attempt on another recruiter's choice
PI: 2?
Penguin: 2?

Now at most, that's 5 townies recruited, correct? SL is down which leaves us with 11 people to work with. I am assuming that the CLs can now only recruit once per night, which means if they are successful (which is more likely with Joker and TF working together to survive), we could end up with 7 town tomorrow (unless there is some more cross recruiting, etc).

Regardless, here's the situation as I see it: we need to nail BM 4 times. If this means we need 4 day-night cycles (assuming a lynch of batman followed by a NK of him is unlikely, which could be likely imho, I just don't know) to even allow one of the factions to win. With two CLs already known, BM could definitely chew through the cults faster than anyone could chew through him. Which means he wins, we don't, none of us.

I'm not sure lynching a CL is the best option at the moment...

You forget that Karosis claims that two CLs targetted him. So that would mean one less recruit for whichever 2 it was. Looking more like:

The Joker: 1 if he targetted Karosis with Ivy like was suggested.

Ivy: 1 if she targetted Karosis with The Joker like was suggested.

Penguin: 2

Two-Face:1 if he targetted Amp with the other. 0 if he was telling the truth and targetted Karosis. But this would mean that either Ivy or The Joker was not one of the two CLs to target Karosis, thus possibly adding another recruit to one of them.

[Meanas]

Eloth, calm down, you aren't helping your case. What we need is to think this through and strategize since evidently this game is now busted wide open and lying on the table.

Town really needs to take a step back and think outside the box. Just blindly killing people when they reveal as not being on your team is a foolish way to approach a faction game.

[Meanas]

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

Meanas, on 06 June 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

Now what is interesting to me is how things are far more complex than I expected. The recruiters get 2 shots on day 1 (makes sense actually if you think about it). So here's what we know about the recruitment results as of now:

Joker: 2?
TF: 1 failed attempt on Joker, 1 failed attempt on another recruiter's choice
PI: 2?
Penguin: 2?

Now at most, that's 5 townies recruited, correct? SL is down which leaves us with 11 people to work with. I am assuming that the CLs can now only recruit once per night, which means if they are successful (which is more likely with Joker and TF working together to survive), we could end up with 7 town tomorrow (unless there is some more cross recruiting, etc).

Regardless, here's the situation as I see it: we need to nail BM 4 times. If this means we need 4 day-night cycles (assuming a lynch of batman followed by a NK of him is unlikely, which could be likely imho, I just don't know) to even allow one of the factions to win. With two CLs already known, BM could definitely chew through the cults faster than anyone could chew through him. Which means he wins, we don't, none of us.

I'm not sure lynching a CL is the best option at the moment...

You forget that Karosis claims that two CLs targetted him. So that would mean one less recruit for whichever 2 it was. Looking more like:

The Joker: 1 if he targetted Karosis with Ivy like was suggested.

Ivy: 1 if she targetted Karosis with The Joker like was suggested.

Penguin: 2

Two-Face:1 if he targetted Amp with the other. 0 if he was telling the truth and targetted Karosis. But this would mean that either Ivy or The Joker was not one of the two CLs to target Karosis, thus possibly adding another recruit to one of them.

Oh, you're Penguin aren't you....

[Eloth]

Meanas, on 06 June 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

Eloth, calm down, you aren't helping your case. What we need is to think this through and strategize since evidently this game is now busted wide open and lying on the table.

Town really needs to take a step back and think outside the box. Just blindly killing people when they reveal as not being on your team is a foolish way to approach a faction game.

I'm not the one getting victory conditions wrong. When VCs are what you base strategy on and are therefore elemental to anything you do.
Furthermore, instead of asking, yuo could just have pressed the little [1] button and re-read the OP.

besides, there's nothing else for me to do but play Tyrant Steve.

[Osseric]

Eloth you have just claimed that I am Batman, and that I am defending Amp and must be one of his recruits all in the last 5 minutes. At least stick to one lie at a time. Like I said I am the one that suggest Amp was probably another CL outting you rather than a town with a finder ability like he claimed. Get your shit together.

@Thyr: So you want us to lynch a random person, hoping we hit Batman and just forget about the two CLs?



EDIT: Make that 3 things as you just also claimed that I'm Penguin. Name me as everyone and you might get lucky.

This post has been edited by Osseric: 06 June 2012 - 09:11 AM

[Meanas]

So we now have 3 CLs in hot water. With an expansion of the reveal-fest, BM can chuckle, sit back in his porcelain throne, and win the game in 4 cycles WCS. Now here's the options I see:

A) kill CLs and hope that at least one is kept around till the bitter end and BM can be killed 4 times before that last one is found. This would potentially grant a town victory.
leave the CLs for BM and keep hunting for BM while ignoring the CLs. This allows a quick loss of two of them, and if the other two remain underground, we could have a situation where town OR a cult wins.
C) work with the CLs and use their knowledge and powers to hunt down BM and make damn sure he's toast before we go at one another. This means an unlikely town victory (very unlikely).

[Meanas]

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Eloth you have just claimed that I am Batman, and that I am defending Amp and must be one of his recruits all in the last 5 minutes. At least stick to one lie at a time. Like I said I am the one that suggest Amp was probably another CL outting you rather than a town with a finder ability like he claimed. Get your shit together.

@Thyr: So you want us to lynch a random person, hoping we hit Batman and just forget about the two CLs?



EDIT: Make that 3 things as you just also claimed that I'm Penguin. Name me as everyone and you might get lucky.

Osseric, I really don't like you at the moment. You are are definitely being blind, and seem to be willfully misinterpreting and misunderstanding things. Your push against Eloth makes me think you are aligned with someone other than town, actually high on my list as suspicious as BM or a CL.

You are not likely the CL Eloth bumped up against, which makes it 50-50 if you are a head-hauncho you are BM.

[Meanas]

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Eloth you have just claimed that I am Batman, and that I am defending Amp and must be one of his recruits all in the last 5 minutes. At least stick to one lie at a time. Like I said I am the one that suggest Amp was probably another CL outting you rather than a town with a finder ability like he claimed. Get your shit together.

@Thyr: So you want us to lynch a random person, hoping we hit Batman and just forget about the two CLs?



EDIT: Make that 3 things as you just also claimed that I'm Penguin. Name me as everyone and you might get lucky.

Eloth called you BM and a recruit. I called you penguin (because you had him as having 2 successful recruits while throwing doubt on the other three CLs when we really only have solid information on TF's successes/failures.

[Meanas]

Ok, let's make this even more fun. I was Joker's recruit last night, and was given a pile of weapons to chose from, some of which guard, some of which kill, some of which could protect me. I could chose one weapon (I'm not telling you which), which means I am now roled.

If you believe I am the only one who had this choice, put your DUNCE cap on and do a jig right here right now. Shit's about to go down this night. We could easily see the elimination of two CLs in the night, and BM is going to take more time to kill since he hops from person to person. If we are lucky and the rules stipulate that BM can be lynched, then nightkilled all in one cycle, we could finish him in 2 cycles, but that is so unlikely it's laughable. And I don't trust everyone with these new powers to avoid knocking off the other two CLs and giving BM the game.

Think about it. We are about to see a shit storm of kills/guards/deflections. To trust it all to random chance is stupid when we have an opportunity to take the game by the balls and squeeze out BM. If we survive long enough, more than 1 of us may win.

[Osseric]

Oh, I am sorry Eloth. I did think it was you who posted that Penguin remark, not Meanas.

[Eloth]

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Eloth you have just claimed that I am Batman, and that I am defending Amp and must be one of his recruits all in the last 5 minutes. At least stick to one lie at a time. Like I said I am the one that suggest Amp was probably another CL outting you rather than a town with a finder ability like he claimed. Get your shit together.

@Thyr: So you want us to lynch a random person, hoping we hit Batman and just forget about the two CLs?



EDIT: Make that 3 things as you just also claimed that I'm Penguin. Name me as everyone and you might get lucky.

It's called keeping options open. I do think you're Batman (Ment might have given your name to the Joker to fit the thematic approach but forbidden teh Joker from vigging you or something), but you might also be a Joker recruit and the coded message was a cute play by the Joker to plead not-guilty for his recruit. You certainly defended his finder status beyond what's customary.

[Meanas]

Joker (AMP): 1 successful recruit (MEANAS), 1 failed (KAROSIS)
TF (ELOTH): 0 successful recruits, 2 failed (KAROSIS) (AMP)
PI (_____): 2? (?) (_____) (_____)
Penguin (_____): 2? (_____) (_____)






Edit: missed parenthesis.

This post has been edited by Meanas: 06 June 2012 - 09:26 AM

[Meanas]

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Eloth you have just claimed that I am Batman, and that I am defending Amp and must be one of his recruits all in the last 5 minutes. At least stick to one lie at a time. Like I said I am the one that suggest Amp was probably another CL outting you rather than a town with a finder ability like he claimed. Get your shit together.

@Thyr: So you want us to lynch a random person, hoping we hit Batman and just forget about the two CLs?



EDIT: Make that 3 things as you just also claimed that I'm Penguin. Name me as everyone and you might get lucky.

It's called keeping options open. I do think you're Batman (Ment might have given your name to the Joker to fit the thematic approach but forbidden teh Joker from vigging you or something), but you might also be a Joker recruit and the coded message was a cute play by the Joker to plead not-guilty for his recruit. You certainly defended his finder status beyond what's customary.

Cross post dude.

[Osseric]

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Eloth you have just claimed that I am Batman, and that I am defending Amp and must be one of his recruits all in the last 5 minutes. At least stick to one lie at a time. Like I said I am the one that suggest Amp was probably another CL outting you rather than a town with a finder ability like he claimed. Get your shit together.

@Thyr: So you want us to lynch a random person, hoping we hit Batman and just forget about the two CLs?



EDIT: Make that 3 things as you just also claimed that I'm Penguin. Name me as everyone and you might get lucky.

It's called keeping options open. I do think you're Batman (Ment might have given your name to the Joker to fit the thematic approach but forbidden teh Joker from vigging you or something), but you might also be a Joker recruit and the coded message was a cute play by the Joker to plead not-guilty for his recruit. You certainly defended his finder status beyond what's customary.

Here you go smart guy. Meanas just claimed to be The Jokers recruit. And once again I WAS THE ONE TO SAY AMP WAS POSSIBLY A CL INSTEAD OF A TOWN. I made it in all caps so you can see it.

[Osseric]

I really like how you say you do not like me, Meanas, then say it's because you don't think I'm town, then reveal you are a Joker recruit. No wonder. It makes Thyr suspicios as well.

[Meanas]

Eloth, here's what I'm thinking. We may need to get everyone we can behind us. Consider this: If you reveal the other CL that you know of, it incentivizes both them and their 1-2 recruits to join in and help get this mess of a situation nailed down.

If we have enough Osserics in this game, we're going to hell a lot sooner than any of us would like. I'd get it all on the table. No one is permanently on any one team remember, and even if the CLs refrained from stealing recruits and instead converting all of town, we still have BM hopping from one player to the next, disrupting cult teams willy-nilly. This is now a cooperative game for cults and town.

Town can hope to win if the cults are contentious and mess with each other (plus, BM is going to be hacking us down really fast), so it is also in town's best interest to cooperate.

[Eloth]

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Eloth you have just claimed that I am Batman, and that I am defending Amp and must be one of his recruits all in the last 5 minutes. At least stick to one lie at a time. Like I said I am the one that suggest Amp was probably another CL outting you rather than a town with a finder ability like he claimed. Get your shit together.

@Thyr: So you want us to lynch a random person, hoping we hit Batman and just forget about the two CLs?



EDIT: Make that 3 things as you just also claimed that I'm Penguin. Name me as everyone and you might get lucky.

It's called keeping options open. I do think you're Batman (Ment might have given your name to the Joker to fit the thematic approach but forbidden teh Joker from vigging you or something), but you might also be a Joker recruit and the coded message was a cute play by the Joker to plead not-guilty for his recruit. You certainly defended his finder status beyond what's customary.

Here you go smart guy. Meanas just claimed to be The Jokers recruit. And once again I WAS THE ONE TO SAY AMP WAS POSSIBLY A CL INSTEAD OF A TOWN. I made it in all caps so you can see it.

You have said a lot of things.

Quote

I'm caught up. A few things I saw are that apparently The Joker and Ivy both tried to recruit Karosis, but failed. That left Penguin and Two-Face having possible recruits. Also, with Amp claiming the finder ability, would not all 4 CLs want him out of the picture in case he found them? So I would think one of them may have targetted Amp. Maybe it was the Penguin, and maybe he wants Amp to reveal Two-Face so that we take Two-Face out. All speculation of course. What would be wrong with testing this theory? If Amp is lying, he would definately be lynched. So why would he lie? We really do not have to know his motivation for outting Two-Face, as long as it checks true.

He's not a CL here.

Quote

vote Eloth
Because I cannot see how this will not lead us to one of the CLs. Either Amp is telling the truth and Eloth is Two-Face(or one of the CLs), or Amp is lying and we kill Amp. I can only see Amp lying if he is one of the CLs himself.

You say it here, but never recognise that a CL can speak the truth and still be a CL.

Quote

Sorry for the succession of posts, but something dawned on me. I've been trying to picture a scenario where Amp would lie. I really am having trouble coming up with something. A possibility, however unlikely, could be that Amp's slip up in which he revealed he did not know the town were not given a name in their role PM may be something he thought would come back to bite him. One of the CLs may have thought this. If Amp was a CL, he could feel that sometime in the future that this slip would come back up. Perhaps he is tossing one of the other CLs under the bus to buy our trust. Purely speculation, and highly unlikely. I wanted it out there just in case. I think he could have been recruited, and this reveal is also to buy our trust. I do not know if he would have been as willing to reveal himself as a true finder if not feeling some sort of pressure. Apologies to Amp for the scrutiny if your intentions are good. Seems a shitty way to repay you for your willing to reveal yourself by revealing a CL.

Some more, but apologetic to the extreme.

Quote

I do not think you tried to recruit Amp. I do not think you know which CL he is, just guessing. I think you just want to make sure Amp dies for outting you. Tell me who the other CL to target Karosis with you was if you want to buy some credibility. I think you are only assuming Amp is a CL, therefore you are choosing one of three, possibly only one of two sinse you should know who else claimed Karosis with you.

here you don't believe I know who he is, then you go further and say I just guess he is a CL. Which is as good as saying you don't really believe he is one.

So rather than a hard statement that you believe he is one, you merely use it to cover yourself. /shrug.

[Meanas]

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

I really like how you say you do not like me, Meanas, then say it's because you don't think I'm town, then reveal you are a Joker recruit. No wonder. It makes Thyr suspicios as well.

I don't like you cause I think Eloth's right, there is a good chance you are BM from the way you are acting. You could be a CL trying to cap a can of worms, but that seems less likely cause if no one knows you are a CL, now would be a time I'd expect you to melt into the background and stay out of it. But you aren't, you are calling quite a bit of attention on yourself.

Though, if I am wrong and you are town, I do not look forward to fighting you and BM. I worry that people won't be able to think outside the box and will play this game as mafia business as usual, not seeing the ramifications of thinking only in the short term.

Either way, you are doing yourself no favors in my favor.

[Eloth]

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 June 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Eloth you have just claimed that I am Batman, and that I am defending Amp and must be one of his recruits all in the last 5 minutes. At least stick to one lie at a time. Like I said I am the one that suggest Amp was probably another CL outting you rather than a town with a finder ability like he claimed. Get your shit together.

@Thyr: So you want us to lynch a random person, hoping we hit Batman and just forget about the two CLs?



EDIT: Make that 3 things as you just also claimed that I'm Penguin. Name me as everyone and you might get lucky.

It's called keeping options open. I do think you're Batman (Ment might have given your name to the Joker to fit the thematic approach but forbidden teh Joker from vigging you or something), but you might also be a Joker recruit and the coded message was a cute play by the Joker to plead not-guilty for his recruit. You certainly defended his finder status beyond what's customary.

Here you go smart guy. Meanas just claimed to be The Jokers recruit. And once again I WAS THE ONE TO SAY AMP WAS POSSIBLY A CL INSTEAD OF A TOWN. I made it in all caps so you can see it.

Oh, I just digged up what you said. And what you said in no way affirms that you are town.