[Ampelas]

Rashan, on 05 June 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

Eloth, on 05 June 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

Rashan, on 05 June 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Eloth, on 05 June 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

That's not what I am talking about.

Do tell - what ARE you talking about? If you end up being innocent, then so be it. As Omtose pointed out, it's a cult game, so we have to re-examine everyone every day, because allegiances change with the flip of a hat.

What I mean is giving Meanas a get-out-of-prison card for free day 1. That is putting blinkers on.

Eh, considering how things went down, it seems pretty clear to me that Meanas is town.

Korbas (I think) was calling for a mod-kill, Ment came on and said he doesn't really like doing a mod-kill but would discuss it with Liz. This likely means that Meanas was town, and would deserve a modkill, but that Ment was giving him a second chance. People screw up, yadda yadda.

Liz comes on and agrees with Ment and posts that there will not be a modkill.

To me, it seems pretty clear that Meanas is most likely town, probably a newb who didn't understand the rules, and not a cult leader.

You're voting town, and town should be the last person anyone wants to get rid of, so that stands out to me. A cult leader would definitely want to lynch another cult leader or batman first, but in the absence of an obvious CL or BM, why not take out a townie? I stand by my opinion.

A - There aren't any newbs in this game.
B - Why would Ment be so reluctant to modkill an RI? More likely, IMO, that Ment doesn't want to break his own game by modkilling a batman or CL!

[Ampelas]

Telas, on 05 June 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 05 June 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

oh, incidentally, Shin was also town. I see Liz didn't mention that.

my lunch is over, gotta run

-ment

But he was also Solomon Grundy - so I don't think he was just your average run-of-the-mill thug.

Looks like this confirms that there are independents out there, and, if he was also linked to town, then those independents might be beneficial for town.

I dunno about that. There are easily enough batman villains for all 21 non-BM-players to be one, even if RI.

[Atrahal]

Gah!



Remove vote



Need to review cases to be sure I'm not just following the herd. If the case against D'riss is merely my spotting his use of the singular pronoun as a base, that's really thin, IMO. But it's hard to see any stronger case.


Vote D'riss

[Telas]

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

Telas, on 05 June 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 05 June 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

oh, incidentally, Shin was also town. I see Liz didn't mention that.

my lunch is over, gotta run

-ment

But he was also Solomon Grundy - so I don't think he was just your average run-of-the-mill thug.

Looks like this confirms that there are independents out there, and, if he was also linked to town, then those independents might be beneficial for town.

I dunno about that. There are easily enough batman villains for all 21 non-BM-players to be one, even if RI.

Errrr, well I ceratainly don't have a name. Sounds to me like you do though. The town PM has even been put up by Ment now.

Remove Vote

Vote Ampelas

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 1. 2 hours and 40 minutes left

21 people are still alive : Ampelas, Anomandaris, Anthras, Atrahal, D'riss, Eloth, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Spite, Telas, Thyrllan, Tulas Shorn

takes 12 votes to lynch or 11 to go to night.

8 votes for Eloth (Karosis, Emurlahn, Anomandaris, Galain, Rashan, Liosan, Omtose, Atrahal)
1 vote for Rashan (Meanas)
4 votes for Meanas (Spite, Eloth, D'riss, Ampelas)
1 vote for D'riss(Atrahal)
1 vote for Ampelas (Telas)

-Liz

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 05 June 2012 - 05:22 PM

[Korbas]

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 05 June 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

I have returned from sleep, and hopefully making more sense

I'm finding these statements from the criminal masterminds very interesting. Hopefully they will give us some clues about the masterminds and their suspects. Interesting this fascination they have for Osseric too.

I'm a bit torn over looking for Batman over the criminal masterminds. The cults, I think, are a more immediate threat to town, but the Batman issue is going to have to be addressed fairly early on as well.

Also, I am a wee bit confused as to why D'riss is feeling the need to quote largely irrelevant comments made by other people, with largely irrelevant comments of his own added to them.

This post looks so very, very forced-content-ish. It's just so formula.

Line 1: state you're back with a bit of boring flavour.

Line 2: Say that the most stand-out things on thread are "interesting" because you haven't really read the thread at all yet.

Line 3: Discuss town strategies that everyone has already gone into far more detail than you about, but don't make up your mind here because you don't want to get any heat from picking the worse option!

Line 4: Pick a random player that isn't getting any heat and point out something completely random as possible scummy behaviour, just so this post has some "unique" content.


Looks like total stay-hidden-but-don't-low-post coasting. Could easily be a lame townie, but I also think this is how a BM/CL might try to coast through the first few days to avoid taking any heat. Still have catching up to do, but for now:


Vote Korvalain

I am in conccurence with this post. I still don't like korvy.

[Korbas]

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

Catch-up done. I'm surprised all the suggestions of "strategy" so far have been either "go for the CLs" or "go for BM". Both, IMO, are shit.

Galain, on 05 June 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 05 June 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 05 June 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

Hmm, I read it that BM nominates a successor, who's only informed of their change in role if BM kicks the bucket.

Well either way it won't be the same player playing BM the second time round. This makes the game a lot harder for us. We have to kill BM 4 times. 4 different alts and people. We then have to kill 4 recruiters and hopefully not be recruited ourselves if we stand any chance of winning. I hope those extra roles Ment said maybe in play are in our favour. I'm going to assume they are and they give us a better chance.

@Telas

Above my response to Ano's post was that in every scenario he gave we'd have to lynch Osseric. He didn't give another side to the argument. I wasn't agreeing with him there I was just pointing it out.

Wrong. If we kill the Batman four times, it is GAME OVER. We either win or lose at that point, we don't have to kill the four recruiters afterwards (I'm assuming it's nigh impossible for two factions to have plurality by that stage, if not...sudden death? Or something...). Once the Batman is dead, we've either won or lost at that point. The trick is to do it fast enough that the Cults cannot gain more members than town beforehand. We need only be the largest single faction at the end of the game.


Additionally, Batman is trying to kill the Cult Leaders too. So hopefully his action reduces the rate of recruitment on town.

^^Yes, it is important to remember the game ends as soon as batman is dead. From the OP, that is either after we lynch the 3rd successor OR if he gets NK'd (presumably after many BPs, if this is even possible). At that time we need to be the biggest faction, so going for BM now while we are big makes sense. BUT, there's no way we can lynch him 4 times and still be the largest faction unless we are very, very lucky with the cult blocking each other and/or recruiting each others' recruits, plus BM killing cultists instead of town.

IMO, there has to be some way for us to get back those recruited by the cults. A decoder role would be possible, but not very effective against 4 cults. More likely, I think recruits turn back into town when a CL dies. It makes sense for the theme (the gang dissolves when the leader dies and the cultists become regular unorganized criminals, aka town, again) and it is effective at giving town back our townies.

So we go for the CLs then?

No. Batman needs to kill the CLs to win, right? If we hunt and kill 2 of them, but then still have to lynch batman four times, he has four nights to kill the other 2 CLs and win before we can. IMO, the best strategy is to go for BM until he has been lynched twice. If, at that point, there are still 4 CLs, we go for them to build back up the town, then we finish off BM. If after BM has died twice there are only 2 CLs left already, we just keep hunting BM.

Basically, we need to balance how much life BM has left versus how many townies we have. Otherwise we face killing BM without being able to get majority town in time, or the CLs dying before we can finish off BM.

You're not special. MANY people have talked about finding a balance. Including me.

Dr is taking forever to come in

[Eloth]

Remove vote.

I'm going to get me something to eat. Back in 60 or so.

[Fener]

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

What the hell is with this Eloth pile-up? He puts a case on another player, gives his opinion, etc, and no fewer than 4 people jump on him for it? I didn't agree with the person who brought up the Big Tent thread before, but this to me is right on the nose for it.

The Meanas case is a good case. You don't have to agree with it, but that doesn't mean you get to just pile up on Eloth for no reason other than disagreeing.

As it turns out, I think the Meanas case is quite good and don't believe him to be a mistaken townie at all.

Remove Vote
Vote Meanas

Eloth, on 05 June 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

Rashan, on 05 June 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Eloth, on 05 June 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

That's not what I am talking about.

Do tell - what ARE you talking about? If you end up being innocent, then so be it. As Omtose pointed out, it's a cult game, so we have to re-examine everyone every day, because allegiances change with the flip of a hat.

What I mean is giving Meanas a get-out-of-prison card for free day 1. That is putting blinkers on.

Atrahal, on 05 June 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

You could at least attempt a defence though. The utter lack of one, and the attempt at misdirection, lead me to conclude you're becoming resigned to being the first casualty. Whether that's just or not: I don't know. But I, for one, am becoming tired of operating with so little info. As allegiances are going to change after Day 1, I'm of a mind to hurry proceedings toward that.



Remove vote

Vote Eloth

This is totally bizarre behavior to me. First, Amp claims the Meanas case is a good one and worth pursuing even though everyone else has pretty much jumped ship and hopped on the Eloth train.

Atrahal is essentially totally wrong about Eloth's play - he's done nothing but defend himself - and I find that suspicious. Eloth is agreeing with the Meanas case, which lines up with Amp. Also, "hurry proceedings" towards lynching on day 1 with this much activity, discussion, a day vig? ...I need to review some more, but for now,

Vote Atrahal

I actually still think Meanas is worth lynching, based on his play today, and all the modkill business should be discarded, in my opinion, and borders on complete meta anyway. Eloth, possible, but he's defended himself well so I'm not inclined to vote there right now.

[Ampelas]

Telas, on 05 June 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

Telas, on 05 June 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 05 June 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

oh, incidentally, Shin was also town. I see Liz didn't mention that.

my lunch is over, gotta run

-ment

But he was also Solomon Grundy - so I don't think he was just your average run-of-the-mill thug.

Looks like this confirms that there are independents out there, and, if he was also linked to town, then those independents might be beneficial for town.

I dunno about that. There are easily enough batman villains for all 21 non-BM-players to be one, even if RI.

Errrr, well I ceratainly don't have a name. Sounds to me like you do though. The town PM has even been put up by Ment now.

Remove Vote

Vote Ampelas

No, but couldn't Ment just be putting them in as it goes? Given the (lack of) formatting and content (ie no VC for batman?) of the OP, I wouldn't be surprised by it..

[Ampelas]

Fener, on 05 June 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

What the hell is with this Eloth pile-up? He puts a case on another player, gives his opinion, etc, and no fewer than 4 people jump on him for it? I didn't agree with the person who brought up the Big Tent thread before, but this to me is right on the nose for it.

The Meanas case is a good case. You don't have to agree with it, but that doesn't mean you get to just pile up on Eloth for no reason other than disagreeing.

As it turns out, I think the Meanas case is quite good and don't believe him to be a mistaken townie at all.

Remove Vote
Vote Meanas

Eloth, on 05 June 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

Rashan, on 05 June 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Eloth, on 05 June 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

That's not what I am talking about.

Do tell - what ARE you talking about? If you end up being innocent, then so be it. As Omtose pointed out, it's a cult game, so we have to re-examine everyone every day, because allegiances change with the flip of a hat.

What I mean is giving Meanas a get-out-of-prison card for free day 1. That is putting blinkers on.

Atrahal, on 05 June 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

You could at least attempt a defence though. The utter lack of one, and the attempt at misdirection, lead me to conclude you're becoming resigned to being the first casualty. Whether that's just or not: I don't know. But I, for one, am becoming tired of operating with so little info. As allegiances are going to change after Day 1, I'm of a mind to hurry proceedings toward that.



Remove vote

Vote Eloth

This is totally bizarre behavior to me. First, Amp claims the Meanas case is a good one and worth pursuing even though everyone else has pretty much jumped ship and hopped on the Eloth train.

Atrahal is essentially totally wrong about Eloth's play - he's done nothing but defend himself - and I find that suspicious. Eloth is agreeing with the Meanas case, which lines up with Amp. Also, "hurry proceedings" towards lynching on day 1 with this much activity, discussion, a day vig? ...I need to review some more, but for now,

Vote Atrahal

I actually still think Meanas is worth lynching, based on his play today, and all the modkill business should be discarded, in my opinion, and borders on complete meta anyway. Eloth, possible, but he's defended himself well so I'm not inclined to vote there right now.

So you think Meanas is worth lynching, but it's suspicious when I do, too?

[Fener]

Well, bunch of crossposts in there, but my argument stands. I do not like how Atrahal worded his vote for Eloth and now he's rapidly removed it for no apparent reason. Do. Not. Like.

[Telas]

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

Telas, on 05 June 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

Telas, on 05 June 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 05 June 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

oh, incidentally, Shin was also town. I see Liz didn't mention that.

my lunch is over, gotta run

-ment

But he was also Solomon Grundy - so I don't think he was just your average run-of-the-mill thug.

Looks like this confirms that there are independents out there, and, if he was also linked to town, then those independents might be beneficial for town.

I dunno about that. There are easily enough batman villains for all 21 non-BM-players to be one, even if RI.

Errrr, well I ceratainly don't have a name. Sounds to me like you do though. The town PM has even been put up by Ment now.

Remove Vote

Vote Ampelas

No, but couldn't Ment just be putting them in as it goes? Given the (lack of) formatting and content (ie no VC for batman?) of the OP, I wouldn't be surprised by it..

Come on, really? So we all have names but Ment hasn't given them to us. I don't think so.

It is possible that town have some roled players with names (and you are one of them), in which case I apologise, though you kinda outed yourself

And if, on the other hand, you are some other named player like one of the CLs or the Batman, then I certainly don't apologise

Either way, you're in a hole. What do others think?

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 1. 2 hours and 30 minutes left

21 people are still alive : Ampelas, Anomandaris, Anthras, Atrahal, D'riss, Eloth, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Spite, Telas, Thyrllan, Tulas Shorn

takes 12 votes to lynch or 11 to go to night.

8 votes for Eloth (Karosis, Emurlahn, Anomandaris, Galain, Rashan, Liosan, Omtose, Atrahal)
1 vote for Rashan (Meanas)
4 votes for Meanas (Spite, D'riss, Ampelas)
1 vote for D'riss(Atrahal)
1 vote for Ampelas (Telas)
1 vote for Atrahal (Fener)

-Liz

[Fener]

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

Fener, on 05 June 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 05 June 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

What the hell is with this Eloth pile-up? He puts a case on another player, gives his opinion, etc, and no fewer than 4 people jump on him for it? I didn't agree with the person who brought up the Big Tent thread before, but this to me is right on the nose for it.

The Meanas case is a good case. You don't have to agree with it, but that doesn't mean you get to just pile up on Eloth for no reason other than disagreeing.

As it turns out, I think the Meanas case is quite good and don't believe him to be a mistaken townie at all.

Remove Vote
Vote Meanas

Eloth, on 05 June 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

Rashan, on 05 June 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Eloth, on 05 June 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

That's not what I am talking about.

Do tell - what ARE you talking about? If you end up being innocent, then so be it. As Omtose pointed out, it's a cult game, so we have to re-examine everyone every day, because allegiances change with the flip of a hat.

What I mean is giving Meanas a get-out-of-prison card for free day 1. That is putting blinkers on.

Atrahal, on 05 June 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

You could at least attempt a defence though. The utter lack of one, and the attempt at misdirection, lead me to conclude you're becoming resigned to being the first casualty. Whether that's just or not: I don't know. But I, for one, am becoming tired of operating with so little info. As allegiances are going to change after Day 1, I'm of a mind to hurry proceedings toward that.



Remove vote

Vote Eloth

This is totally bizarre behavior to me. First, Amp claims the Meanas case is a good one and worth pursuing even though everyone else has pretty much jumped ship and hopped on the Eloth train.

Atrahal is essentially totally wrong about Eloth's play - he's done nothing but defend himself - and I find that suspicious. Eloth is agreeing with the Meanas case, which lines up with Amp. Also, "hurry proceedings" towards lynching on day 1 with this much activity, discussion, a day vig? ...I need to review some more, but for now,

Vote Atrahal

I actually still think Meanas is worth lynching, based on his play today, and all the modkill business should be discarded, in my opinion, and borders on complete meta anyway. Eloth, possible, but he's defended himself well so I'm not inclined to vote there right now.

So you think Meanas is worth lynching, but it's suspicious when I do, too?

No, actually, in my original post I had misread Atrahal/Ampelas so if it seems like I was casting suspicion on you, I wasn't trying to. I was just saying that Eloth was essentially agreeing with you, and Atrahal voted Eloth. I agree with the logic of voting Meanas. But Atrahal has come way up on my radar, hence the vote.

[Atrahal]

Forgive me for not accepting bluster and misdirection as a valid defence. You may agree with Eloth, and may even think that he is town, but that doesn't automatically make his defence pass muster. I removed my vote because it was such a close thing between D'riss and Eloth, and now I'm coming down on D'riss, having reviewed the thread. If the simple act of changing a vote is enough to cast suspicion on any townie, then our chances of winning are slim indeed.

[Fener]

Yeah, so all that "First, Amp did blah blah blah..." Ignore that, I was confused about your damn names.

[Atrahal]

Path-Shaper, on 05 June 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

8 votes for Eloth (Karosis, Emurlahn, Anomandaris, Galain, Rashan, Liosan, Omtose, Atrahal)
1 vote for D'riss(Atrahal)

That should be 7 for Eloth, minus me.

[Fener]

Atrahal, on 05 June 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

Forgive me for not accepting bluster and misdirection as a valid defence. You may agree with Eloth, and may even think that he is town, but that doesn't automatically make his defence pass muster. I removed my vote because it was such a close thing between D'riss and Eloth, and now I'm coming down on D'riss, having reviewed the thread. If the simple act of changing a vote is enough to cast suspicion on any townie, then our chances of winning are slim indeed.

What's close between D'riss and Eloth? Eloth is only L-4, D'riss doesn't even have half the votes needed. YOu explicity said Eloth DID NOT DEFEND himself. Now you're saying his defense isn't good enough or "not valid."

The bullshit about "changing votes being suspicious means town is gonna lose" just makes me more confident of my vote.

[Ampelas]

Fener, on 05 June 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

Yeah, so all that "First, Amp did blah blah blah..." Ignore that, I was confused about your damn names.

ok