[Korbas]

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

Why would we assume that? If he knows who Eloth is, he can take his time in killing him. There are other CLs out there - possibly confirmed already, it appears - and so if he has a good secondary target I don't see why he wouldn't try for a different CL and let town wallow in the Eloth's complete thread confusion for another day.

Then we ignore him. I'm not worried about taking out Eloth specifically. Any of the CLs are the same. In fact, Eloth doesn't seem to have any recruits, so I'd put him farther down the list than those who do.

Anyway, no point in arguing about this. My vote is on him, I would like clarification for the lynch LP as well, and that makes this lynch worth it.

[Korbas]

Tulas Shorn, on 06 June 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

Oh yes, my last comment - as town, our only power is the lynch. Let's fucking use it. We cannot rely on BATMAN, who is NOT A TOWN MEMBER, to help us.

this is a good point

No it isn't.

[Korbas]

Eloth, the point is that we have no reason to believe you. If we lynch you now, we get information that will help us with the other 3 CLs. We have no reason to take what you're saying as fact, until it is proven.

[Fener]

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

Also, if you are expecting Batman to kill you, why the fuck are you trying to "help town" by telling us you are lynchproof? You don't care about living or dying? You don't care that Batman is going to try to kill you? If Batman wastes his actions on you, great; if not, town is still in a position to maintain plurality and lynch the Bat. His night actions are designed for YOU, not for town, so trying to convince us that his NAs should be the focus of our lynch target is totally ridiculous.

Batman is going to kill me anyway, you guys can't kill me unless aided by Batman or by the other CL. I already told you that. The fact is you don't believe me, but it is for me about 87% true and the 13% hesitation is only because I don't know what town roles Ment put in.

I don't want you fuckers to win. If I can't win, then I hope another Super Villain wins. I threw The Joker out for vengeance, but with him and me gone, we will make a nice speedbump as well as making the game very exciting to watch from SH. For PI or The Penguin to win, the Batman needs to die 4 times, and I think the best way to take him out, is lynching. Which means that I don't want lynches wasted on myself or Ampelas. Leave us to the Batman. Make him work for his victory while you work towards yours.
He can off two of the super villains who are outed now. That should give town more days to work with. Your own contribution to killing us is neglible and you're on a tight clock schedule to lynch BM 4 times while you have plurality.

As a result, it is for all involved best if you lynch Batman and focus on that. He will kill us. Don't worry about that.

No, it is not "best for all involved" to lynch Batman only. If town sits around with dicks in hand talking and speculating about who Batman is and then can't agree and DAY TIMES OUT WITHOUT A LYNCH AGAIN (GOD HELP ME), town will lose. It will only benefit the CLs, who can recruit from a clueless, meandering pool of townies. Do both town and CLs need to kill Batman? Yes. Does it make a difference WHEN he dies? It certainly does. I want Batman to die when town has plurality, not when you and the other CLs have divided down amongst yourselves.

So don't tell me what to worry about. Condescension doesn't become you, Two-Face.

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

Also, assuming Batman is not omniscient and doesn't know for sure that you are LP, why would he waste an action on you if we lynched you? That would make no sense. He would probably choose a different target. You are making way too many bad assumptions to live through the day.

The difference between you and me, sir piggy, is that I know my own role PM.

Uh, fucking EXACTLY. That is the whole point. You're probably lying but I don't know for sure. That's why we're going to find out whether you're lying about your PM or not. Duh.

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

Oh yes, my last comment - as town, our only power is the lynch. Let's fucking use it. We cannot rely on BATMAN, who is NOT A TOWN MEMBER, to help us.

No shit. I would just rather use it on Batman.

I would too, but the odds of that are slim, and to keep town's numbers as high as possible, eliminating a single CL will significantly reduce the odds of town members being recruited off. Plus, we get a lot of information, and if Eloth is lying and actually has a recruit, we may find out what happens to them as well - like, they may become town again, and there would be no reason for them not to reveal that to us.

Whether I die today (impossible) or tomorrow (more likely) does not alter the odds. It lowers the number of recruited people by 1, period, for the remainder of the game. That is decent, but nowhere near significant.

Wait, what? How does it lower the number of recruited people by 1? Either you already have a recruit, or you are assuming (overconfidently) that your recruit attempt tonight will succeed - if you even survive. And no, your math is fucking terrible. If you die tomorrow during the day, you could possible have 2 recruits already. What it does for town is it cuts down the possible recruit attempts EVERY NIGHT by 25%. That is fucking significant.

There's a difference between relative and absolute. My maths is from an absolute PoV, taking into account that I won't be around forever. Yours is from a relative PoV and doesn't take into account that my presence is already limited to only a few game phases.
But if you like bigger numbers, then yes, it cuts down on 25%. You know what, you lynch all 4 cult leaders, you have a 0% chance to be recruited. It still won't mean you will win.

Right, I was thinking of the WHOLE GAME, and you were thinking of not getting lynched. I get it. Don't worry about that. Let town handle it.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2, 14 hours and 16 minutes left.

21 players remaining alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Anthras, Atrahal, D'riss, Eloth, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Spite, Telas, Thyrllan, Tulas Shorn

it takes 12 votes to lynch or 11 go to night.

1 vote for Liosan (Meanas)
9 votes for Eloth (Omtose, Tulas Shorn, Osseric, Karosis, Emurlahn, Ampelas, Fener, Korbas, Anthras)
5 votes for Osseric (Eloth, Thyrllan, Korvalain, Atrahal, Rashan)


The Following people have not voted:
D'riss, Galain, Liosan, Spite, Telas

-Liz

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 06 June 2012 - 05:58 PM

[Fener]

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Tulas Shorn, on 06 June 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

Oh yes, my last comment - as town, our only power is the lynch. Let's fucking use it. We cannot rely on BATMAN, who is NOT A TOWN MEMBER, to help us.

this is a good point

No it isn't.

Care to clarify? Regardless of whether town and Batman have similar interests at some point, Batman is never looking to help town as a faction. You don't agree with this?

[Anthras]

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

And batman would only be helping us by proxy. He's achieving his VC.

I agree totally, that's why the argument of "let's let Batman help town!" is the stupidest fucking thing on thread right now.

You truly think he wouldn't kill Eloth if we left him alone? Of course he would. He's not actively trying to help town, but he is doing so in achieving his VC.

Why would we assume that? If he knows who Eloth is, he can take his time in killing him. There are other CLs out there - possibly confirmed already, it appears - and so if he has a good secondary target I don't see why he wouldn't try for a different CL and let town wallow in the Eloth's complete thread confusion for another day.

At this point we have to lynch him. We have to test the LP. If he does indeed have a LP then that means that the other CL probably also have a LP. This is something that we have to know. So we have to lynch him. We also have to lynch him because it reduces the recruiting by 25% as you pointed out. The reasons to lynch greatly out way the reasons to not lynch. At this point I am suspicious of people who don't want to lynch him.
The Osseric lynch train is solely based off of the Joker calling him out and his interaction with a known CL. When their is a known and admitted leader on the board you take care of that threat first. Right now I am putting Amp and Osseric into the same boat.

[Fener]

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

Why would we assume that? If he knows who Eloth is, he can take his time in killing him. There are other CLs out there - possibly confirmed already, it appears - and so if he has a good secondary target I don't see why he wouldn't try for a different CL and let town wallow in the Eloth's complete thread confusion for another day.

Then we ignore him. I'm not worried about taking out Eloth specifically. Any of the CLs are the same. In fact, Eloth doesn't seem to have any recruits, so I'd put him farther down the list than those who do.

Anyway, no point in arguing about this. My vote is on him, I would like clarification for the lynch LP as well, and that makes this lynch worth it.

We don't know if he has recruits or not, but Eloth has been the only CL spouting lots of information about his role and abilities, so it DOES matter whether we lynch him or one of the other CLs.

But I agree about testing the LP and all other info put on thread, so, no argument here.

[Ampelas]

Tulas Shorn, on 06 June 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

Oh yes, my last comment - as town, our only power is the lynch. Let's fucking use it. We cannot rely on BATMAN, who is NOT A TOWN MEMBER, to help us.

this is a good point

Damn, I didn't even know you were playing until this

[Eloth]

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Tulas Shorn, on 06 June 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

Oh yes, my last comment - as town, our only power is the lynch. Let's fucking use it. We cannot rely on BATMAN, who is NOT A TOWN MEMBER, to help us.

this is a good point

No it isn't.

Care to clarify? Regardless of whether town and Batman have similar interests at some point, Batman is never looking to help town as a faction. You don't agree with this?

You can count on Batman to do what town needs when it is what Batman needs. When it comes to removing CLs, well, he needs that.

[Korbas]

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Tulas Shorn, on 06 June 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

Oh yes, my last comment - as town, our only power is the lynch. Let's fucking use it. We cannot rely on BATMAN, who is NOT A TOWN MEMBER, to help us.

this is a good point

No it isn't.

Care to clarify? Regardless of whether town and Batman have similar interests at some point, Batman is never looking to help town as a faction. You don't agree with this?

Every time he kills a cult leader, he's helping us. I'm just being pedantic. Sorry.

[Ampelas]

Rashan, on 06 June 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 06 June 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

Rashan, on 06 June 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 06 June 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

Path-shaper, we never got confirmation, despite my repeated asking, if the Dramatic Twist was only for lynches or not. Can you please clarify this?

This made me think of something else... What if when Batman assigned a successor he chose a recruiter? It says he cannot assign a recruiter as a successor, so I would assume if he accidentally chose a recruiter he would be told who that is... would that recruiter be told who Batman is? Could this be how Joker knew that Osseric was Batman?

Well, the OP says he can "nominate" a successor, like it isn't a confirmed thing. I guess that's possible, but it could also be that he just makes a list and the first non-CL on the list becomes BM.

That's a good point... I've never played a game with a successor role, so I have no idea what to expect from that. Just throwing the idea out there as it occured to me.

Another option is he nominates the person when he dies, in-between being announced dead and getting into SH, and the mods just tell him to pick again if he chooses a CL. If I remember correctly, that is how it worked in the ROK Jungle mini.

[Fener]

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Tulas Shorn, on 06 June 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

Oh yes, my last comment - as town, our only power is the lynch. Let's fucking use it. We cannot rely on BATMAN, who is NOT A TOWN MEMBER, to help us.

this is a good point

No it isn't.

Care to clarify? Regardless of whether town and Batman have similar interests at some point, Batman is never looking to help town as a faction. You don't agree with this?

Every time he kills a cult leader, he's helping us. I'm just being pedantic. Sorry.

It's fine. What you say is both true and not true. It helps us all the way up until he kills all four of them. Then it doesn't help us, because we lose. So that's what I mean about overlapping interests. Batman and town are not always going to be on the same page.

[Rashan]

Anthras, on 06 June 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

And batman would only be helping us by proxy. He's achieving his VC.

I agree totally, that's why the argument of "let's let Batman help town!" is the stupidest fucking thing on thread right now.

You truly think he wouldn't kill Eloth if we left him alone? Of course he would. He's not actively trying to help town, but he is doing so in achieving his VC.

Why would we assume that? If he knows who Eloth is, he can take his time in killing him. There are other CLs out there - possibly confirmed already, it appears - and so if he has a good secondary target I don't see why he wouldn't try for a different CL and let town wallow in the Eloth's complete thread confusion for another day.

At this point we have to lynch him. We have to test the LP. If he does indeed have a LP then that means that the other CL probably also have a LP. This is something that we have to know. So we have to lynch him. We also have to lynch him because it reduces the recruiting by 25% as you pointed out. The reasons to lynch greatly out way the reasons to not lynch. At this point I am suspicious of people who don't want to lynch him.
The Osseric lynch train is solely based off of the Joker calling him out and his interaction with a known CL. When their is a known and admitted leader on the board you take care of that threat first. Right now I am putting Amp and Osseric into the same boat.

Okay, fine, you're right. Given that my Osseric vote is based on speculation and a gut feeling, whereas an Eloth vote goes against a CL for sure, I will

remove vote

vote Eloth

At least this way we can test the LP claim...but I definitely believe that Osseric was acting very sketchy when people were accusing him of being Batman. If he's not Batman, he's definitely hidiing SOMETHING, so I will be continuing to keep a close eye on him.

[Fener]

Path-Shaper, on 06 June 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

It is Day 2, 14 hours and 16 minutes left.

21 players remaining alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Anthras, Atrahal, D'riss, Eloth, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Spite, Telas, Thyrllan, Tulas Shorn

it takes 12 votes to lynch or 11 go to night.

1 vote for Liosan (Meanas)
9 votes for Eloth (Omtose, Tulas Shorn, Osseric, Karosis, Emurlahn, Ampelas, Fener, Korbas, Anthras)
5 votes for Osseric (Eloth, Thyrllan, Korvalain, Atrahal, Rashan)


The Following people have not voted:
D'riss, Galain, Liosan, Spite, Telas

-Liz

Wait, did this post get edited? Eloth used to have 10 votes. Where was the screw up?

[Omtose]

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 06 June 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

It is Day 2, 14 hours and 16 minutes left.

21 players remaining alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Anthras, Atrahal, D'riss, Eloth, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Spite, Telas, Thyrllan, Tulas Shorn

it takes 12 votes to lynch or 11 go to night.

1 vote for Liosan (Meanas)
9 votes for Eloth (Omtose, Tulas Shorn, Osseric, Karosis, Emurlahn, Ampelas, Fener, Korbas, Anthras)
5 votes for Osseric (Eloth, Thyrllan, Korvalain, Atrahal, Rashan)


The Following people have not voted:
D'riss, Galain, Liosan, Spite, Telas

-Liz

Wait, did this post get edited? Eloth used to have 10 votes. Where was the screw up?

Looks like Ano is missing.

[Omtose]

And Ano had voted Osseric from what I can tell. I knew we'd heard from him. Vote count is wrong.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2, 13 hours and 33 minutes left.

21 players remaining alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Anthras, Atrahal, D'riss, Eloth, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Spite, Telas, Thyrllan, Tulas Shorn

it takes 12 votes to lynch or 11 go to night.

1 vote for Liosan (Meanas)
11 votes for Eloth (Omtose, Tulas Shorn, Osseric, Karosis, Emurlahn, Anomandaris, Ampelas, Fener, Korbas, Anthras, Rashan)
4 votes for Osseric (Eloth, Thyrllan, Korvalain, Atrahal)


The Following people have not voted:
D'riss, Galain, Liosan, Spite, Telas

-Liz

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 06 June 2012 - 06:38 PM

[Path-Shaper]

Omtose, on 06 June 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

And Ano had voted Osseric from what I can tell. I knew we'd heard from him. Vote count is wrong.

It's fixed now.

-Liz

[Rashan]

Path-Shaper, on 06 June 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

Omtose, on 06 June 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

And Ano had voted Osseric from what I can tell. I knew we'd heard from him. Vote count is wrong.

It's fixed now.

-Liz

Almost - it should show 4 votes for Osseric now.