[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2, 15 hours and 11 minutes left.

21 players remaining alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Anthras, Atrahal, D'riss, Eloth, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Spite, Telas, Thyrllan, Tulas Shorn

it takes 12 votes to lynch or 11 go to night.

1 vote for Liosan (Meanas)
7 vote for Eloth (Omtose, Tulas Shorn, Osseric, Karosis, Emurlahn, Eloth, Ampelas)
5 vote for Osseric (Eloth, Thyrllan, Korvalain, Atrahal, Rashan)
1 vote for Meanas (Korbas)


The Following people have not voted:
Ampelas, Anthras, Atrahal, D'riss, Fener, Galain, Liosan, Rashan, Spite, Telan

-Liz

[Rashan]

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Rashan, on 06 June 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

My point was that Meanas is EITHER a recruit or a liar, which makes him a bad guy (and I guessed the bat).

Why can't he be telling the truth?

Then he's a recruit, who is roled. So it was a win/win lynch. To me atleast, it doesn't seem people share this.



I definitely agree that Eloth doesn't have much protection. But why would we lynch someone who batman is going to take out anyway? Waste of a lynch, imo.

We don't know what happens to a Cult once the CL is dead though. If Meanas is a townie that was recruited, there is a chance that he may end up going back to town if we manage to lynch/kill off his CL, so wouldn't it make sense to leave a townie alone?

[Ampelas]

Path-shaper, we never got confirmation, despite my repeated asking, if the Dramatic Twist was only for lynches or not. Can you please clarify this?

[Ampelas]

I do think Osseric's behaviour is weird and he could very well be Batman. Or he could be an Eloth recruit willing to deflect, or something else entirely.

For now, I think it's worth lynching Eloth for the information it will give us on what happens when a CL dies (and I may be a bit biased towards it confirming my find ). I don't see Batman as having some sort of thread-exploding powers, just a regular NK and lots of defence. The lack of NKs last night has in some sense given us an extra day, which we can use on Eloth without shortening the game on ourselves.

[Rashan]

Ampelas, on 06 June 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

Path-shaper, we never got confirmation, despite my repeated asking, if the Dramatic Twist was only for lynches or not. Can you please clarify this?

This made me think of something else... What if when Batman assigned a successor he chose a recruiter? It says he cannot assign a recruiter as a successor, so I would assume if he accidentally chose a recruiter he would be told who that is... would that recruiter be told who Batman is? Could this be how Joker knew that Osseric was Batman?

[Ampelas]

Rashan, on 06 June 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 06 June 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

Path-shaper, we never got confirmation, despite my repeated asking, if the Dramatic Twist was only for lynches or not. Can you please clarify this?

This made me think of something else... What if when Batman assigned a successor he chose a recruiter? It says he cannot assign a recruiter as a successor, so I would assume if he accidentally chose a recruiter he would be told who that is... would that recruiter be told who Batman is? Could this be how Joker knew that Osseric was Batman?

Well, the OP says he can "nominate" a successor, like it isn't a confirmed thing. I guess that's possible, but it could also be that he just makes a list and the first non-CL on the list becomes BM.

[Karosis]

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Rashan, on 06 June 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

My point was that Meanas is EITHER a recruit or a liar, which makes him a bad guy (and I guessed the bat).

Why can't he be telling the truth?

Then he's a recruit, who is roled. So it was a win/win lynch. To me atleast, it doesn't seem people share this.



I definitely agree that Eloth doesn't have much protection. But why would we lynch someone who batman is going to take out anyway? Waste of a lynch, imo.

Like I said above, I don't think hitting a recruit is much of a win at this stage of the game. Batman or CL are the targets we should be looking to hit. I want to lynch Eloth to make certain that we're one recruiter down. Can't trust the Batman to do our dirty work for us, because NKs can be affected by Guards and Heals. Especially if Osseric is in fact the Batman, you would expect that people would be keen to stop him from wrecking any havoc and put in actions against him accordingly. But there probably aren't any Lynch BPs in the game, no matter what Eloth says, so a lynch is a reasonably sure thing (and if it isn't a sure thing, then we need to know that sooner rather than later).

[Fener]

Rashan, on 06 June 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Rashan, on 06 June 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

My point was that Meanas is EITHER a recruit or a liar, which makes him a bad guy (and I guessed the bat).

Why can't he be telling the truth?

Then he's a recruit, who is roled. So it was a win/win lynch. To me atleast, it doesn't seem people share this.



I definitely agree that Eloth doesn't have much protection. But why would we lynch someone who batman is going to take out anyway? Waste of a lynch, imo.

We don't know what happens to a Cult once the CL is dead though. If Meanas is a townie that was recruited, there is a chance that he may end up going back to town if we manage to lynch/kill off his CL, so wouldn't it make sense to leave a townie alone?

I agree with this because we don't know exactly what happens to recruits when their leader dies. We have a find on Eloth, we have him owning the find, and we have him expanding his powers and abilities considerably as time goes on (good post whoever made that case). There is no way that the cult leaders have LPs. That would break the game and make it very difficult for town to do anything, as we currently have a 1/21 chance of lynching Batman and a 4/21 chance of lynching a CL. Those are not good odds for town if CLs can't be lynched. I think Eloth is lying to save his own skin and dammit, we should have lynched him last night for sure. Meanas says that he is roled but we don't know what kind of role he has, and depending on what we learn from Eloth's lynch, we can always lynch Meanas the next day if we really want to.

But I do not think it serves our purposes today to lynch a recruit who revealed when we have CLs out in the open that are going to cut town to shreds during recruitment tonight. There is WAY more information out there now than there was on Day 1. Many targets have been eliminated and so the CLs are going to be more tightly focused on who they choose. I say eliminating one of them is the best possible thing town can do right now.

As for the "Let the Batman do his work" argument, who's to say Batman will go after Eloth at all? Or if Eloth is even half telling the truth about how hard he is to kill, why should we assume that Batman will succeed in killing him? As town we should focus on not only maintaining plurality by not being recruited, but by killing Batman while we have plurality. We don't have a good consensus or enough info on the Bat to lynch him, so we lynch Eloth. Lynching a recruit makes no sense at all.

Vote Eloth

[Rashan]

Ampelas, on 06 June 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

Rashan, on 06 June 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 06 June 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

Path-shaper, we never got confirmation, despite my repeated asking, if the Dramatic Twist was only for lynches or not. Can you please clarify this?

This made me think of something else... What if when Batman assigned a successor he chose a recruiter? It says he cannot assign a recruiter as a successor, so I would assume if he accidentally chose a recruiter he would be told who that is... would that recruiter be told who Batman is? Could this be how Joker knew that Osseric was Batman?

Well, the OP says he can "nominate" a successor, like it isn't a confirmed thing. I guess that's possible, but it could also be that he just makes a list and the first non-CL on the list becomes BM.

That's a good point... I've never played a game with a successor role, so I have no idea what to expect from that. Just throwing the idea out there as it occured to me.

[Fener]

X-post with a couple people. Good to see common sense spreading around.

[Fener]

Oh yes, my last comment - as town, our only power is the lynch. Let's fucking use it. We cannot rely on BATMAN, who is NOT A TOWN MEMBER, to help us.

[Korbas]

Okay, I see your points.

I won't be actively trying to lynch any recruiters after this, though. Batman should do his work.


Vote Eloth

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2, 14 hours and 52 minutes left.

21 players remaining alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Anthras, Atrahal, D'riss, Eloth, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Karosis, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Meanas, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Spite, Telas, Thyrllan, Tulas Shorn

it takes 12 votes to lynch or 11 go to night.

1 vote for Liosan (Meanas)
9 vote for Eloth (Omtose, Tulas Shorn, Osseric, Karosis, Emurlahn, Eloth, Ampelas, Fener, Korbas)
5 vote for Osseric (Eloth, Thyrllan, Korvalain, Atrahal, Rashan)


The Following people have not voted:
Ampelas, Anthras, Atrahal, D'riss, Galain, Liosan, Rashan, Spite, Telan

-Liz

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 06 June 2012 - 05:09 PM

[Korbas]

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

Oh yes, my last comment - as town, our only power is the lynch. Let's fucking use it. We cannot rely on BATMAN, who is NOT A TOWN MEMBER, to help us.

No shit. I would just rather use it on Batman.

[Korbas]

Oh, sorry liz.

Remove Vote

Vote Eloth

[Korbas]

And batman would only be helping us by proxy. He's achieving his VC.

[Fener]

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

And batman would only be helping us by proxy. He's achieving his VC.

I agree totally, that's why the argument of "let's let Batman help town!" is the stupidest fucking thing on thread right now.

[Eloth]

Karosis, on 06 June 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

See, the thing is, we are not looking to kill recruits. Town's principle antagonists are the Batman and the Cult Leaders - one needs to be killed in order for town to win, the others need to be killed to stop them from reducing the number of townies to the point that we can't win. I don't mind leaving Meanas alive for the time being. We know where he lives, and what team he is on. In the future we can always get rid of him if we think we need to. But we don't reduce the Cult's numbers by lynching Meanas - the Joker will get another chance to recruit, as will all the other cults. Lynching Meanas in fact reduces town's chances of winning.

Also worth bearing in mind that even if Meanas has been recruited, it is still in his interests to help us find Batman. He needs to keep his Leader alive to recruit others, after all. I don't see Meanas as a threat worth eliminating at this point.

On the other hand, if we lynch Eloth today, there is one less recruiter for us to worry about. That means only 3 cults remain and the rate of town drain is reduced, leaving us with more time to hunt the Bat.

Blahblahblah.
You say tempo but you main ego that's being saved.

Let's do some maths, I hear you are fond of them. But because I like telling tales, gather around, kids. I'll tell you a story.
When Uncle Ment and aunt Liz designed this game, uncle Ment came up with a big scary evil guy, and he wanted the cult leaders to have some weaponry to deal with that guy. So he gave them vigs. Uncle Ment, being the genius for entertainment that he is, then invented a recruiting mechanism where cult leaders would learn each other's alt when they recruited the same guy. Funny, huh? Yeah. But then aunt Liz said: wait a second, you gave those guys vigs. What's to stop them from killing each other and doing the Bad Man's job for him, or revealing the other guy to town? And uncle Ment said: damn Lizzie, that's a good point!

So uncle Ment also gave cousin Two Face, cousin The Joker, cousin Penguin and that strange little hippie girl from next door some serious protection.
Cousin Two-Face, but you may call me Harvey, cous, because I liked you enough to want you on my side, has protection with a big P. I'm going to be 100% honest now. If you lynch me, I will still be here on the morning of day 3. I have an LP and at the least 1 BP. Here's how: you lynch me, I have an LP, and then Batman kills me, but I have at least 1 BP. Then all protection is gone, or maybe not even that, but a near naked Harvey Dent stands before you, and let me tell you cous, my left ball looks distinctly weird due to all that acid that was poured over it. You don't want to see that. But while the Batman was killing me, cous, I was active too. I was recruiting or vigging. Unless I was guarded, of course.

Now, on that little maths problem I said I would pose to you.
You wasted on me 1 Lynch, and the Batman wasted 1 action. I did something, too. Then it is day 3 and you have to decide whether you leave me for Batman or lynch me again.

I potentially cost you 2 lynches (aka, time), and the Batman one or two actions. I caused the lost of 0-1 people who may also be cult recruits.

Now, examine the situation where you leave me for the Batman. I cost you no lynches, I cost the Batman (my number of BPs + 1) in actions, and still 0-1 people, who may also be cult recruits.

So, Cousin, tell me: which is the better choice for town?

[Fener]

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

Fener, on 06 June 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

Oh yes, my last comment - as town, our only power is the lynch. Let's fucking use it. We cannot rely on BATMAN, who is NOT A TOWN MEMBER, to help us.

No shit. I would just rather use it on Batman.

I would too, but the odds of that are slim, and to keep town's numbers as high as possible, eliminating a single CL will significantly reduce the odds of town members being recruited off. Plus, we get a lot of information, and if Eloth is lying and actually has a recruit, we may find out what happens to them as well - like, they may become town again, and there would be no reason for them not to reveal that to us.

[Eloth]

Karosis, on 06 June 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

@Ampelas: Thanks for the rundown. I've decided just to ignore all of Eloth's posts from now on - it's too obviously that she's spouting falsehoods. Plus, it always annoys people who are working so hard to be heard when you don't listen to them .

See you in the morning!