[Ampelas]

Quote

Eloth says Osseric is Batman

Quote

People believe him

Quote

Osseric goes insane

[Korbas]

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

I am not here to do you any favors, though, so give me a reason. And anyway, if you think he is Batman: a vig is not going to do much good on that front, as I already explained.

nevermind, I was just grumpy. Had my coffee, I'm good to go

[Karosis]

Ampelas, on 06 June 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

Quote

Eloth says Osseric is Batman

Quote

People believe him

Quote

Osseric goes insane

Interesting, is that your take on how it happened? The way I read it, people were needling Osseric anyway for how he was behaving in asking Eloth over and over again for details. Eloth said, "Oh, that's because he's the Batman", and then Osseric basically comes out and admits that. I mean, it was a very strange implosion, and it is difficult to fathom exactly why he would do it, but I wouldn't say that it was just Eloth applying the pressure there.

[Telas]

Alright, I'm off for a few hours.

For the record, right now I'm of the opinion we should lynch Eloth first. He is the one definitively confirmed to be someone anti-town, and having one less recruiter so soon would be marvellous. And I don't buy his 'you can't lynch me' thing in the slightest. That's my logical mind talking.

My instinct, however, tells me we should lynch Osseric, because he almost seems to have given up any pretense of being anything other than Batman.

This might change depending on what else goes down, but yeah, that's where I stand currently.

[Rashan]

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

Actually, I never quite said that. I said I got to know Ampelas = The Joker (and he got to know Eloth = Two-Face) because I tried to recruit Ampelas.
I also tried to recruit Karosis, but that failed because there were two recruits taking place there - as Karosis will confirm. Whomever I clashed with, I am not saying.

Okay, sorry, I guess I misread that. So then if I am getting this right, you tried to recruit Joker (aka Ampelas according to you), and then clashed with someone else over Karosis?

Omtose, on 06 June 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

Actually, I never quite said that. I said I got to know Ampelas = The Joker (and he got to know Eloth = Two-Face) because I tried to recruit Ampelas.
I also tried to recruit Karosis, but that failed because there were two recruits taking place there - as Karosis will confirm. Whomever I clashed with, I am not saying.

Now this makes sense if he clashed with Poison Ivy and she's trying to tell Joker that she knows something. Which came out first Poison Ivy's date request or Amp's finder reveal?

And so Omtose is thinking that PI and 2F clashed, and PI is trying to tell Joker something? How could Poison Ivy possibly have told Joker something that the rest of the thread wouldn't know? I am assuming that recruiters aren't allowed to talk to each other off thread, so whatever PI said would have to be pretty vague, and in the broadcast itself... The broadcast was pretty vague... I don't know, the whole thing seems kind of wonky to me.

[Korbas]

Meanas, on 06 June 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

Ok, let's make this even more fun. I was Joker's recruit last night, and was given a pile of weapons to chose from, some of which guard, some of which kill, some of which could protect me. I could chose one weapon (I'm not telling you which), which means I am now roled.

If you believe I am the only one who had this choice, put your DUNCE cap on and do a jig right here right now. Shit's about to go down this night. We could easily see the elimination of two CLs in the night, and BM is going to take more time to kill since he hops from person to person. If we are lucky and the rules stipulate that BM can be lynched, then nightkilled all in one cycle, we could finish him in 2 cycles, but that is so unlikely it's laughable. And I don't trust everyone with these new powers to avoid knocking off the other two CLs and giving BM the game.

Think about it. We are about to see a shit storm of kills/guards/deflections. To trust it all to random chance is stupid when we have an opportunity to take the game by the balls and squeeze out BM. If we survive long enough, more than 1 of us may win.

edit: accidentaly posted. Hold on.

This post has been edited by Korbas: 06 June 2012 - 04:10 PM

[Omtose]

Rashan, on 06 June 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

Actually, I never quite said that. I said I got to know Ampelas = The Joker (and he got to know Eloth = Two-Face) because I tried to recruit Ampelas.
I also tried to recruit Karosis, but that failed because there were two recruits taking place there - as Karosis will confirm. Whomever I clashed with, I am not saying.

Okay, sorry, I guess I misread that. So then if I am getting this right, you tried to recruit Joker (aka Ampelas according to you), and then clashed with someone else over Karosis?

Omtose, on 06 June 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

Actually, I never quite said that. I said I got to know Ampelas = The Joker (and he got to know Eloth = Two-Face) because I tried to recruit Ampelas.
I also tried to recruit Karosis, but that failed because there were two recruits taking place there - as Karosis will confirm. Whomever I clashed with, I am not saying.

Now this makes sense if he clashed with Poison Ivy and she's trying to tell Joker that she knows something. Which came out first Poison Ivy's date request or Amp's finder reveal?

And so Omtose is thinking that PI and 2F clashed, and PI is trying to tell Joker something? How could Poison Ivy possibly have told Joker something that the rest of the thread wouldn't know? I am assuming that recruiters aren't allowed to talk to each other off thread, so whatever PI said would have to be pretty vague, and in the broadcast itself... The broadcast was pretty vague... I don't know, the whole thing seems kind of wonky to me.

Something is going on between Poison Ivy and Joker. That's the part that I'm trying to figure out.

If Eloth is telling the truth about TWO failed recruits, then who is the other one he is talking about? What about the Penguin too? All we got from him was a weird message that I don't think makes sense.

[Korbas]

Okay, here's my theory on why we should lynch Meanas, and not Eloth/Ampelas.

Let me preface by saying that I'm not confident in Osseric's likelihood to be the b man. So this case is based upon someone who doesn't seem right, and imo -may- be the bat.


In Meanas' first post, he signals that he is town. How does he do this? By posting as one of the villains.

Meanas, on 04 June 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

Beefy has arrived. Hello weaklings.

If this isn't posting as Bain, I don't know what it is. Clearly he is implying that he is Bane. (Dunno which spelling is correct). This means he is either

1. Roled

or

2. Pretending to be town


Since it's clear that not everyone understood that there was a basic town PM.


So he admits to being recruited today:

Meanas, on 06 June 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

Ok, let's make this even more fun. I was Joker's recruit last night, and was given a pile of weapons to chose from, some of which guard, some of which kill, some of which could protect me. I could chose one weapon (I'm not telling you which), which means I am now roled.

If you believe I am the only one who had this choice, put your DUNCE cap on and do a jig right here right now. Shit's about to go down this night. We could easily see the elimination of two CLs in the night, and BM is going to take more time to kill since he hops from person to person. If we are lucky and the rules stipulate that BM can be lynched, then nightkilled all in one cycle, we could finish him in 2 cycles, but that is so unlikely it's laughable. And I don't trust everyone with these new powers to avoid knocking off the other two CLs and giving BM the game.

Think about it. We are about to see a shit storm of kills/guards/deflections. To trust it all to random chance is stupid when we have an opportunity to take the game by the balls and squeeze out BM. If we survive long enough, more than 1 of us may win.

With revealing, we know that:

1. a -roled- town has been recruited.


or


2. A badguy is doing more pretending.


I don't want a roled town in the hands of the cult, and I don't want a badguy to continue living.


Imo, We leave batman to take car of 2face. I think he's exaggerating his defensive abilities.


Vote Meanas


Comments/questions appreciated.

[Rashan]

Omtose, on 06 June 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

If Eloth is telling the truth about TWO failed recruits, then who is the other one he is talking about? What about the Penguin too? All we got from him was a weird message that I don't think makes sense.

Heh, I was so busy looking at Poison Ivy and Joker that I completely forgot about Penguin. What if the Poison Ivy and Joker messages are just to screw with all of us, or that it's really just trying to form some kind of truce, and all the crap about bumblebees and whispers and stuff was just to throw people off? Eloth's apparent second find could be Penguin? Gods, this is frustrating... My mind just keeps spinning in circles!

[Korbas]

Rashan, on 06 June 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

Omtose, on 06 June 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

If Eloth is telling the truth about TWO failed recruits, then who is the other one he is talking about? What about the Penguin too? All we got from him was a weird message that I don't think makes sense.

Heh, I was so busy looking at Poison Ivy and Joker that I completely forgot about Penguin. What if the Poison Ivy and Joker messages are just to screw with all of us, or that it's really just trying to form some kind of truce, and all the crap about bumblebees and whispers and stuff was just to throw people off? Eloth's apparent second find could be Penguin? Gods, this is frustrating... My mind just keeps spinning in circles!

Stop overacting.

[Eloth]

Telas, on 06 June 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

Alright, I'm off for a few hours.

For the record, right now I'm of the opinion we should lynch Eloth first. He is the one definitively confirmed to be someone anti-town, and having one less recruiter so soon would be marvellous. And I don't buy his 'you can't lynch me' thing in the slightest. That's my logical mind talking.

My instinct, however, tells me we should lynch Osseric, because he almost seems to have given up any pretense of being anything other than Batman.

This might change depending on what else goes down, but yeah, that's where I stand currently.

And I would suggest you trust your instinct, and not just because I'd live a day extra through it. My fellow recruiters will be as happy to string me up, anyway. But the Batman role is created to deal with recruiters, recruiters are equiped to deal with town and town is through lynching equiped to take out Batman. It is a rock - paper-scissors game here. It doesn;t make sense to try and beat scissors if you're paper, especially not because it benefits rock.

[Eloth]

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

Okay, here's my theory on why we should lynch Meanas, and not Eloth/Ampelas.

Let me preface by saying that I'm not confident in Osseric's likelihood to be the b man. So this case is based upon someone who doesn't seem right, and imo -may- be the bat.


In Meanas' first post, he signals that he is town. How does he do this? By posting as one of the villains.

Meanas, on 04 June 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

Beefy has arrived. Hello weaklings.

If this isn't posting as Bain, I don't know what it is. Clearly he is implying that he is Bane. (Dunno which spelling is correct). This means he is either

1. Roled

or

2. Pretending to be town


Since it's clear that not everyone understood that there was a basic town PM.


So he admits to being recruited today:

Meanas, on 06 June 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

Ok, let's make this even more fun. I was Joker's recruit last night, and was given a pile of weapons to chose from, some of which guard, some of which kill, some of which could protect me. I could chose one weapon (I'm not telling you which), which means I am now roled.

If you believe I am the only one who had this choice, put your DUNCE cap on and do a jig right here right now. Shit's about to go down this night. We could easily see the elimination of two CLs in the night, and BM is going to take more time to kill since he hops from person to person. If we are lucky and the rules stipulate that BM can be lynched, then nightkilled all in one cycle, we could finish him in 2 cycles, but that is so unlikely it's laughable. And I don't trust everyone with these new powers to avoid knocking off the other two CLs and giving BM the game.

Think about it. We are about to see a shit storm of kills/guards/deflections. To trust it all to random chance is stupid when we have an opportunity to take the game by the balls and squeeze out BM. If we survive long enough, more than 1 of us may win.

With revealing, we know that:

1. a -roled- town has been recruited.


or


2. A badguy is doing more pretending.


I don't want a roled town in the hands of the cult, and I don't want a badguy to continue living.


Imo, We leave batman to take car of 2face. I think he's exaggerating his defensive abilities.


Vote Meanas


Comments/questions appreciated.

Actually, he is referring to being dumb muscle, which was picked up by Emur and started the whole shitstorm on me yesterday because I was attacking an RI who was identified as such by fellow RIs: that whole RI PM was filled with flavor about being really good at curb stomping people and not much else. I doubt he is pretending to be Bane.

[Korbas]

By calling everyone else weaklings, I thought he was implying that he's the super strong guy... maybe I just have Bane on the mind. Hmm. I'd like to hear more thoughts than a confirmed cultist, though.

[Rashan]

Path-Shaper, on 06 June 2012 - 07:23 AM, said:

A cracking noise makes you all aware of the second broadcast of the day. It is from the Pengiuin.

Quote

"I may have saved the mayor's baby, but I refuse to save a mayor who stood by helpless as a baby, while Arkham City was ravaged by a disease that turned eagle scouts into crazed clowns and happy homemakers into dragons!"

-Liz

The only message I could see this saying is to go for dragons? Maybe Penguin is telling his followers to vote for the first dragon avatar that he votes for? I don't know... It's so vague.

[Karosis]

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

Okay, here's my theory on why we should lynch Meanas, and not Eloth/Ampelas.

Let me preface by saying that I'm not confident in Osseric's likelihood to be the b man. So this case is based upon someone who doesn't seem right, and imo -may- be the bat.


In Meanas' first post, he signals that he is town. How does he do this? By posting as one of the villains.

Meanas, on 04 June 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

Beefy has arrived. Hello weaklings.

If this isn't posting as Bain, I don't know what it is. Clearly he is implying that he is Bane. (Dunno which spelling is correct). This means he is either

1. Roled

or

2. Pretending to be town


Since it's clear that not everyone understood that there was a basic town PM.


So he admits to being recruited today:

Meanas, on 06 June 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

Ok, let's make this even more fun. I was Joker's recruit last night, and was given a pile of weapons to chose from, some of which guard, some of which kill, some of which could protect me. I could chose one weapon (I'm not telling you which), which means I am now roled.

If you believe I am the only one who had this choice, put your DUNCE cap on and do a jig right here right now. Shit's about to go down this night. We could easily see the elimination of two CLs in the night, and BM is going to take more time to kill since he hops from person to person. If we are lucky and the rules stipulate that BM can be lynched, then nightkilled all in one cycle, we could finish him in 2 cycles, but that is so unlikely it's laughable. And I don't trust everyone with these new powers to avoid knocking off the other two CLs and giving BM the game.

Think about it. We are about to see a shit storm of kills/guards/deflections. To trust it all to random chance is stupid when we have an opportunity to take the game by the balls and squeeze out BM. If we survive long enough, more than 1 of us may win.

With revealing, we know that:

1. a -roled- town has been recruited.


or


2. A badguy is doing more pretending.


I don't want a roled town in the hands of the cult, and I don't want a badguy to continue living.


Imo, We leave batman to take car of 2face. I think he's exaggerating his defensive abilities.


Vote Meanas


Comments/questions appreciated.

See, the thing is, we are not looking to kill recruits. Town's principle antagonists are the Batman and the Cult Leaders - one needs to be killed in order for town to win, the others need to be killed to stop them from reducing the number of townies to the point that we can't win. I don't mind leaving Meanas alive for the time being. We know where he lives, and what team he is on. In the future we can always get rid of him if we think we need to. But we don't reduce the Cult's numbers by lynching Meanas - the Joker will get another chance to recruit, as will all the other cults. Lynching Meanas in fact reduces town's chances of winning.

Also worth bearing in mind that even if Meanas has been recruited, it is still in his interests to help us find Batman. He needs to keep his Leader alive to recruit others, after all. I don't see Meanas as a threat worth eliminating at this point.

On the other hand, if we lynch Eloth today, there is one less recruiter for us to worry about. That means only 3 cults remain and the rate of town drain is reduced, leaving us with more time to hunt the Bat.

[Korbas]

My point was that Meanas is EITHER a recruit or a liar, which makes him a bad guy (and I guessed the bat).

[Rashan]

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

My point was that Meanas is EITHER a recruit or a liar, which makes him a bad guy (and I guessed the bat).

Why can't he be telling the truth?

[Ampelas]

Here's a whole bunch of Eloth quotes from today. Let's watch how he changes and expands his reveal more and more over the course of several hours:

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

Yes, I am Two-Face.
Ampelas is The Joker (I tried to recruit them last night).

Now, my dear never-to-be minions, you have a choice to make.
Don't be overly hasty, please, and consider your options: two cult leaders are now outed, half of Batman's VC is known now, for him to pick off at his leasure. Do you really want to help him in this regard by lynching one of us?

I say this because, assuming Joker has the same role PM as I do, we both have a bit of protection. Perhaps better to let Batman waste his actions for a few days on us, rather than do the job for him and speed him up, hmm?

So far, he says CLs have "a bit of protection" and he is assuming they have the same role PM.

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

Oh, but I nowhere said everyone can recruit twice. I can (once per game) and used it, but then, I robbed a bank on the 2nd of february at 2.00 in the afternoon once. For me, all good things come in two. Like shoes. No clue about the others, but it is the kind of ability that I'd assume others have as well - otherwise I'd have a very distinct advantage over them.

Now he is revising the assumption of having the same role PM, first going for the newly revealed "double recruit" ability to be unique to him, then saying again that he thinks all CLs are the same and would have it.

Claims so far:
-"a bit of protection"
-one-time double recruit

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

So you really think recruits learn their master's alt when there's a message system in place, and recruits can move on between recruiters?

Here, trying to toy with our ideas of what recruits learn. Completely useless post, it just serves to muddy things more. Or maybe he wanted to make CLs seem a bit less powerful to push for the Osseric lynch more?

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

I can vig a limited number of times. However, I know my own protective measures and they're quite rough to deal with. In all honesty, I doubt town can kill me without a very concerted effortn or other CLs lending a hand. The same is probably true for Amp - otherwise, why would he risk being counter-outed by revealing me?
I expect Batman to be able to, though - if he has to weigh up against 4 of us, then he's a walking arsenal.
I also expect BM to be better protected than I am, especially against kills. You're going to need 3-5 of those is my expectation, spread over several adjacent phases.

Now he upgrades what was before "a bit of protection" to fancier language, trying to sound like it will be very hard to kill him. At the same time, he hypes up BM even more to make himself sound like a small fish.

Claims so far:
-"a bit of protection" protective measures = "quite rough to deal with [...] I doubt town can kill me without a very concerted effortn or other CLs lending a hand"
-one-time double recruit
-vig "a limited number of times"

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

Reading comprehension failure much?
I already said I am not going to die of a lynch alone.
In fact, to reiterate what I already said, you're going to need a lynch and Batman and/or one of my fellow cultists to get rid of me. Or just Batman, who will take about a day/night cycle to saw his way through everything I have in the way of defenses.

BUT CLEARLY, YOU RATHER PUT YOUR FINGERS IN YOUR EARS, GIVING BATMAN A TEMPO ADVANTAGE BY DOING THE DAY KILLING FOR HIM.
EVER CONSIDERED THAT HE MAY HAVE A LIMITED AMOUNT OF DAY KILLS, AND THAT EXHAUSTING THOSE WILL BE A VERY, VERY GOOD STRATEGY?

Clearly, you haven't. Amateur.

Now we've gone from town needing a "very concerted effort" to complete lynch invulnerability. This is where it gets really absurd. Typically town's only main weapon is the lynch, and he wants us to believe that all four CLs cannot be defeated by our lynch? We would have to be overflowing with vigs in order to have any chance of defeating a CL ourselves, in that case, and if we can't defeat them ourselves how is town supposed to win?

Claims so far:
-"a bit of protection" protective measures = "quite rough to deal with [...] I doubt town can kill me without a very concerted effortn or other CLs lending a hand"
-cannot be defeated with lynches alone
-one-time double recruit
-vig "a limited number of times"

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

It is about as far fetched as the Joker arming his goons, like Meanas claims happened to him. There's most certainly nothing in my PM that suggests that. I think we all have a few different powers.
Now, of course you have to lie. You can't just step out and say you are the Joker. But please, try something better than this. I'm losing respect for you.

Here he's gone back to the idea that CLs have various different powers, as opposed to him saying they would have the same role PM from before.

Eloth, on 06 June 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

As for multiple vigs: I menioned I had between 0 and 3. And no, they're not unreasonable. We already saw SL shot. Besides, at some point, there's going to be no town anymore. We will still have to take down Batman. A couple of kills make sense then.

Clarifying the vigs un an unclear way to remind us of that threat? And then using that to push some more the idea of BM being even more powerful

Claims so far:
-"a bit of protection" protective measures = "quite rough to deal with [...] I doubt town can kill me without a very concerted effortn or other CLs lending a hand"
-cannot be defeated with lynches alone
-one-time double recruit
-vig "a limited number of times" 0 to 3 vigs


---

What Eloth is doing here is fearmongering. He's fearmongering himself to be very difficult to kill and to have numerous vigs he can use for revenge on people to discourage us from voting for him. He's also using that to hype up BM by constantly saying BM must be even worse than him. Basically he's trying to make us fear lynching him and want to focus entirely on lynching BM instead.

It's a good effort at weaseling out, but we'd be stupid to believe it.

Putting together all of Eloth's ability claims and multiplying them by 4 for each CL, it just gets ridiculous. The CLs can recruit every day, plus a one-time double recruit each, plus something like 8 vigs, plus being immune to lynches? The double-recruit and 8 vigs alone could wipe out town completely, and there's still regular recruiting after that. And then for the lynch to be completely ineffective against them, meaning town cannot fight back with what is traditionally the ONLY weapon town has? Even with just the CLs and town, that would be so ridiculously unbalanced it boggles the mind without even adding a more powerful BM into the picture. There's just no way that would be balanced, or else we'd have 6 finder reveals and 10 day vigs by now.

I'm sure there's some truth mixed in with Eloth's grandiose ability claims, but most of it simply cannot be true, and the lynch invulnerability is the craziest one of all.

Vote Eloth

[Korbas]

Rashan, on 06 June 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

Korbas, on 06 June 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

My point was that Meanas is EITHER a recruit or a liar, which makes him a bad guy (and I guessed the bat).

Why can't he be telling the truth?

Then he's a recruit, who is roled. So it was a win/win lynch. To me atleast, it doesn't seem people share this.



I definitely agree that Eloth doesn't have much protection. But why would we lynch someone who batman is going to take out anyway? Waste of a lynch, imo.

[Karosis]

@Ampelas: Thanks for the rundown. I've decided just to ignore all of Eloth's posts from now on - it's too obviously that she's spouting falsehoods. Plus, it always annoys people who are working so hard to be heard when you don't listen to them .