[Alkend]

Omtose, on 17 April 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

I don't know - Atrahal seems pretty certain, almost like he knows more than he's letting on.

It's a play style thing, I think. That, or he's making a distraction.

[Omtose]

Shit, what happened to the time?!

[Path-Shaper]

t is Day 3. less than a minute since time out

12 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Atrahal, Barghast, Galayn Lord, Kessobahn, Korabas, Korlat, Merrid, Okaros, Omtose, Tiamatha

7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

5 Votes for Alkend ( Atrahal, Anthras, Galayn Lord, Korlat, Kessobahn )

Players not voted: Alkend, Barghast, Korabas, Merrid, Okaros, Omtose, Tiamatha

It is now the battle phase.

[Alkend]

Although it's pretty funny when you think about it, I'm being lynched because I apparently know more by a guy who's certainty seems to indicate that he knows more.

[Alkend]

Waaahhh x-post

[Omtose]

Well, in fairness, I was still only 50-50 about voting for Alkend.

Atrahal, this is not a normal mafia game, that is quite clear. Yes, I know there's been no lynching, but I for one figure there's a lot at risk. It's not just that you could be lynching someone of your own faction, but you could be lynching someone of your own faction who is close to gaining a title. At the moment I still know nothing for certain about anyone, so that's where my hesitation comes from.

[Path-Shaper]

The face in the sky didn't disappear for the entire day. By the end of the afternoon, the city watch had manned the walls as if to guard against attack, and the Nepeth had several skirmisher regiments in loose formation deployed around the building site of their new palace complex. I never bothered to tell them that this thing could strike where-ever it wanted. It was just waiting on orders. When the sun finally settled on the edge of the horizon, a cyclone whirlwind swept through the Quarter of the Coin, throwing secluded bazaars on inner courts into turmoil, broke up a rather public argument between a hooker and her client in a way none of them anticipated, namely, by pulping their brains on ledge of the balcony they were standing under, then razed through a caravan, collapsed a sedan chair containing one of my tax officers, and sweeping the proceedings up in a hailstorm of edged gold discs that flayed the team, teamster and human cargo of an oxen pulled cart returning from the slave market, to settle in the lap of a blind beggar. Twenty-seven people were reported dismembered, unrecognizable or missing, but no-one of importance.
The face of Dalum faded slightly in intensity.

[Omtose]

Path-Shaper, on 17 April 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

The face in the sky didn't disappear for the entire day. By the end of the afternoon, the city watch had manned the walls as if to guard against attack, and the Nepeth had several skirmisher regiments in loose formation deployed around the building site of their new palace complex. I never bothered to tell them that this thing could strike where-ever it wanted. It was just waiting on orders. When the sun finally settled on the edge of the horizon, a cyclone whirlwind swept through the Quarter of the Coin, throwing secluded bazaars on inner courts into turmoil, broke up a rather public argument between a hooker and her client in a way none of them anticipated, namely, by pulping their brains on ledge of the balcony they were standing under, then razed through a caravan, collapsed a sedan chair containing one of my tax officers, and sweeping the proceedings up in a hailstorm of edged gold discs that flayed the team, teamster and human cargo of an oxen pulled cart returning from the slave market, to settle in the lap of a blind beggar. Twenty-seven people were reported dismembered, unrecognizable or missing, but no-one of importance.
The face of Dalum faded slightly in intensity.

I bloody knew that Djinn of Air would show up. I'll analyse this in a second - just gonna see the footie highlights first.

[Path-Shaper]

It is now dusk.
Unsold goods are to be returned from the market.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 17 April 2012 - 08:50 PM

[Omtose]

Path-Shaper, on 17 April 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

The face in the sky didn't disappear for the entire day. By the end of the afternoon, the city watch had manned the walls as if to guard against attack, and the Nepeth had several skirmisher regiments in loose formation deployed around the building site of their new palace complex. I never bothered to tell them that this thing could strike where-ever it wanted. It was just waiting on orders. When the sun finally settled on the edge of the horizon, a cyclone whirlwind swept through the Quarter of the Coin, throwing secluded bazaars on inner courts into turmoil, broke up a rather public argument between a hooker and her client in a way none of them anticipated, namely, by pulping their brains on ledge of the balcony they were standing under, then razed through a caravan, collapsed a sedan chair containing one of my tax officers, and sweeping the proceedings up in a hailstorm of edged gold discs that flayed the team, teamster and human cargo of an oxen pulled cart returning from the slave market, to settle in the lap of a blind beggar. Twenty-seven people were reported dismembered, unrecognizable or missing, but no-one of importance.
The face of Dalum faded slightly in intensity.

Ok - the way I read this is that no one died from the Djinn's attack (duh), but several people may have lost goods and/or retainers, e.g. the caravan, slaves, etc. I want to know if people think the wielder of this Djinn is able to control who gets hit, or whether it's indiscriminate (i.e. dangerous to everybody from whichever faction).

'Dalum faded slightly' suggests that it or something similar will happen again.

[Atrahal]

Omtose, on 17 April 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

Well, below is Alkend's response to Atrahal's case - and whilst I was one of the ones who said that Atrahal's post on Alkend, right or wrong, was a very good, thought-provoking post, I have to admit that Alkend's response is pretty reasonable.

Certainly has more substance than Atrahal will admit, and I actually think Atrahal is being a bit obstinate when it comes listening to Alkend. Though that's not so surprising, as he clearly want this lynch.

Alkend, on 15 April 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

Atrahal, on 15 April 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

Ok, I decided it was important to go back and read the names, and I discovered...well, a lot.

Alkend, on 15 April 2012 - 03:40 AM, said:

I read that as more that the Dreadfather has the potential to wreak havock on the thieves but is currently allied with them. Which isn't to say that the allience will be permanant through the game. Would make sense since there's another role out there, I'd guess they'd be semi-allied with the Houses of Agreement as well.

Also, if you take a look at the bazaar you'll see that the Riddle of Despair has been marked at how much it's been used, which is all the actions except the last.

Well, this is an interesting post. Why do you think the alliance with the Thieves (and by some extent, also the entire Beggars/Vultures/Nepeth "side") would be temporary? All it actually says about him in relation to alliances and Thieves is this: "It will chafe on him that his allies are the Thieves he usually hunts." This already sounds permanent - the contrast between "his allies are the Thieves he usually hunts." Now, if we're talking in the context of actions taken by players in this game (which we are, not only because the only other paragraph dealt with the death of a Roled player, but, well, be patient), this can't be just idle background but actual actions. "Usually" leads me to believe he been using his actions on the Thieves - capital T, the "house" in the Guild of Beggars - most of the time so far. Now, what actions could those be? Obviously they're negative - the scene says it will "chafe" him and later describes their alliance as "It is like a hunting cat teamed with hares: a recipe for disaster." This sounds like he could probably destroy any of the the Thieves easily and if the cat eats all the hares, well, let's just say the Guild of Beggars would probably be hurting. "Are" implies nothing but simple fact, not possible change or any equivocation of who his allies are.

Oh yes, I forgot to explain who "he" is. The Dreadfather is actually "Mage Hassan the Dreadfather" of the House of Terror - which just so happens to be part of the Cult of Vultures faction. It even slipped by me but he's referenced as a member of the Cult in this scene. So, we know their alliance isn't temporary - the OP clearly states that the Vultures, Nepeth, and Beggars were clearly allied together and all against the House of Agreements - two sides like we've been saying.

And then Alkend says this "Would make sense since there's another role out there, I'd guess they'd be semi-allied with the Houses of Agreement as well." Wait, what? "Another role?" Why would he assume there's just two mystery roles in the game? Also...the OP states:

"Mystery factions have their victory conditions in a seperate PM. Mystery factions can be on either side of the equation."

If you're playing this game at all or know about the previous one, it's obvious that probably every player is Roled from the master list (minus the ones who died last game, of course) and Roles are very, very different than Factions. Each Faction usually has a good number of roles - many around 15 Roles or so - so it's very clear that most of the players in this game will belong to one of the four main factions listed in the OP.

More evidence:

"Nevertheless, the tight discipline that is Hassan's one rescue line hasn't yet snapped."

The list of players actually says that Mage Hassan is the Dreadfather. And line also implies something else, like Hassan (who must be somehow in charge or highly involved with the Thieves) has an ability or item or condition that is holding his little group together. And maybe it's totally unrelated to the Thieves, I have no idea; it could be some other condition for the Cult of Vutures.

On a separate but related note, from the OP:

"In the days to come, he [Huassan ibn Qolat, of the House of Luxury, of the House of Agreements, the current Defterdar] and his supporters would seek to outwit the grand alliance opposing him through legal and illegal means, and they [Vultures/Beggars/Nepeth] would seek to do the same to him. He would have the vastness of his resources and connections and, very importantly, the initiative, they would have numbers and the opportunity they craved.:"

Ok...so we are getting numbers information here. The House of Agreements appears to be up against a "grand alliance", and his opponents (Vultures/Beggars/Nepeth) have the advantage of numbers (obvious) and opportunity (not sure what this could be, but it has to increase their "opportunity" to elect the next Defterdar, as they have already been trying to hold new elections, which prompted ibn Qolat's request to be Defterdar and solely in charge, with no Council, which is the act that catalyzed this game and the circumstances of its factions). The HoA, on the other hand, probably have boadloads of cash and/or goods (hence the title purchases) and "connections", which almost implies off thread communications.

That's a lot of info. And I do this to say, Alkend, how could you make so many obvious mistakes? Referring to and assuming the Dreadfather was "a mystery role" and was probably allied with the HoA as well, just like the "other role"? Either he's had contact with the Dreadfather and didn't realize he was a Cult member (or maybe he just never bothered to look up the name), or he's actually got knowledge of this supposed "other role", which is "probably also allied with the House of Alliances." There is just too much info here that has to come from somewhere else.

And even though he could be aligned with either faction and be able to make the post above, my real suspicion is that he assumed the Dreadfather was a "mystery role" like he was and misspoke when he implied there were only two of their kind. If he's somehow allied with both "sides", that would make a lot of sense too, or if he was able to switch his allegiance. In the last game we had single-Role Faction members whose VCs were very much out of their hands; for instance, they aligned with the Faction of the first player that died. Not much of a choice. Also, he would probably be more likely to slip up and talk about "mystery roles" if he was the one person from a mystery faction. Seems like he is or could be aligned with either faction if he chose to, though, unlike the previous game. You wouldn't assume something like that had changed...unless you had good reason.

So Alkend, you did disappear, you have low-posted, and I accuse you of making massive slipups that reveal you know more than a lot of people and should be considered extremely dangerous as a "mystery" element.

I can't remember what the rules are for the weekend, but

Vote Alkend

If that needs to be redone on Monday to be valid, then this was just for emphasis.

edit - added the word "goods"

/sigh. I don't really want to repost your whole long post, but it's probably easier if I do.

It "even" slipped by you, and it obviously slipped by me that he was the Cult. So there we go. I thought the post indicated that he was allied with the Thieves, and the reason I think it's not neccessary permanant in the game is the line
"Nevertheless, the tight discipline that is Hassan's one rescue line hasn't yet snapped." I figure that's a fairly obvious indication that the alliance can be dissolved, though I have no idea what exactly would lead to that. Because I missed that Hassan is a member of the Cult of Vultures, I thought of PS post at the end of Day 1:

Path-Shaper, on 12 April 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

...

Further on, the thread of the Nepeth. Ever building, ever expanding, ever tilling more fields. Ever making more friends. I have no wish to think of the Nepeth tonight. My eyes pick up movement, far away. Thieves on the prowl, and darker things, even. The Tower above the Precipice is dark. The Terror of the Night is out there, dark magic at his fingertips. The Night Prophet, too, may be involved, although on which side of the conflict? With him, it is never simple. Flying carpets circle the buildings of the Cult and its university. And what of the House of Iron? What is their plan? They're very quiet, but they're also ibn Qolats oldest allies, Gold and Steel working in accord. ...

Terror of the Night = 'Mage Hassan the Dreadfather of the House of Terror'
Add the two without realising that he's Cult of Vultures, and it's not really that incomprehensible a mistake.

I've had to skim the thread fairly quickly to keep up with what was happening, I've not had a lot of time spare in the last week. There's not a lot I can do about that, unfortunately, but my low posting has been unintentional, since most of my avaliable time has been spent figuring out the bazaar and trying to support the winning conditions for my team, which, like the majority of players, involves trying to build up and make money for the acquisition of titles. I was surprised at first about how fast title were going, but I thought about it a bit more, and I figure they'll probably be made avaliable again when/if they become vacant, unless there is a way to designate an heir of sorts. Which seems a bit unlikely, but I wouldn't put it past Tapper for this game, given how complicated the rest of it is

Really not one of the mystery roles, sorry. But that's probably the only way to really scare people into a lynch in this game, particularly if you're right about the Cult of Vultures, Guild of Beggars and the Nepeth being the majority. Which is great for them, but I'm guessing that the majority of that faction have started out poor, at least in comparison to the Houses of Agreement, and also puts the faction at a higher chance of getting hit by a lynch in the search for the members of the mystery factions.

I've italicized and enlarged the font of anything in Alkend's post that was related to his defense of my case on him.

Not a lot there, is there? And everything he points out, I already agree with and have said so many times. He actually just agrees with me. And of course there's the part he's still dead wrong about - that the alliance between the Dreadfather and the Thieves could be broken. If all you had was that scene, I could agree with him - but the OP clearly, CLEARY FUCKING STATES that the Vultures, Beggars, and Nepeth are ALLIED TOGETHER against the HoA. Therefore no alliance between the Beggars and the Vultures could "dissolve" or change. Either you're an idiot, you didn't read Alkend's response (except his whining about how little time he has, QQ more), or you know he's on your faction.

Sigh.

[Merrid]

Let me see if I got all this straight. Based on what he said, Atrahal thinks Alkend is a mystery faction allied with HoA. I'm connected with him somehow because some people speculate I'm HoA because of my "stress" merchant reveal?

The argument seemed to revolve around whether Alkend's words were slip-ups or misunderstood. Am I summarizing this right?

OH NOES A SUMMARY!!!*







*except I'm doing it for myself to see if I've got this all straight, I couldn't care less if it's helpful for anyone else

[Path-Shaper]

Well, it seems I can already resolve night. It's going to put me in a bit of a pickle on the resolution of day 4, but I'll start sending out stuff now, then I'll be off to bed as it is nearing midnight.

[Atrahal]

Merrid, on 17 April 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

Let me see if I got all this straight. Based on what he said, Atrahal thinks Alkend is a mystery faction allied with HoA. I'm connected with him somehow because some people speculate I'm HoA because of my "stress" merchant reveal?

The argument seemed to revolve around whether Alkend's words were slip-ups or misunderstood. Am I summarizing this right?

OH NOES A SUMMARY!!!*







*except I'm doing it for myself to see if I've got this all straight, I couldn't care less if it's helpful for anyone else

No. Your summary is wrong. Everyone agrees that Alkend made innocuous, normal mistakes when reading the scene. Mistakes that everyone would have made. This is generally accepted. He then went on and speculated about "mystery roles", who they were aligned with, how many there were, and whether or not they were temporary. It is this speculation combined with his obvious but not condemning lack of knowledge of the facts of the scene that make him suspicious.

[Alkend]

Merrid, on 17 April 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

Let me see if I got all this straight. Based on what he said, Atrahal thinks Alkend is a mystery faction allied with HoA. I'm connected with him somehow because some people speculate I'm HoA because of my "stress" merchant reveal?

The argument seemed to revolve around whether Alkend's words were slip-ups or misunderstood. Am I summarizing this right?

OH NOES A SUMMARY!!!*







*except I'm doing it for myself to see if I've got this all straight, I couldn't care less if it's helpful for anyone else

Yeap.

[Merrid]

Lol. Apparently the two of you can't agree on whether my summary is right or not either.

[Merrid]

@Atrahal

But you believe I'm HoA?

[Alkend]

Atrahal, on 17 April 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

Merrid, on 17 April 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

Let me see if I got all this straight. Based on what he said, Atrahal thinks Alkend is a mystery faction allied with HoA. I'm connected with him somehow because some people speculate I'm HoA because of my "stress" merchant reveal?

The argument seemed to revolve around whether Alkend's words were slip-ups or misunderstood. Am I summarizing this right?

OH NOES A SUMMARY!!!*







*except I'm doing it for myself to see if I've got this all straight, I couldn't care less if it's helpful for anyone else

No. Your summary is wrong. Everyone agrees that Alkend made innocuous, normal mistakes when reading the scene. Mistakes that everyone would have made. This is generally accepted. He then went on and speculated about "mystery roles", who they were aligned with, how many there were, and whether or not they were temporary. It is this speculation combined with his obvious but not condemning lack of knowledge of the facts of the scene that make him suspicious.

Wait, I thought I was suspicious because I knew too much?

I'm so confused!

[Omtose]

Atrahal, on 17 April 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

Merrid, on 17 April 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

Let me see if I got all this straight. Based on what he said, Atrahal thinks Alkend is a mystery faction allied with HoA. I'm connected with him somehow because some people speculate I'm HoA because of my "stress" merchant reveal?

The argument seemed to revolve around whether Alkend's words were slip-ups or misunderstood. Am I summarizing this right?

OH NOES A SUMMARY!!!*







*except I'm doing it for myself to see if I've got this all straight, I couldn't care less if it's helpful for anyone else

No. Your summary is wrong. Everyone agrees that Alkend made innocuous, normal mistakes when reading the scene. Mistakes that everyone would have made. This is generally accepted. He then went on and speculated about "mystery roles", who they were aligned with, how many there were, and whether or not they were temporary. It is this speculation combined with his obvious but not condemning lack of knowledge of the facts of the scene that make him suspicious.

See, this is where the words 'mountain' and 'molehill' spring to mind. You believe Alkend just made innocous mistakes and YET YOU STILL try and use that to strengthen your case. Dude, you don't need to, your case based solely on his speculation of 'mystery roles' was fine by itself, but the way you try and crowbar other things in just makes me think that you know more about Alkend than the rest of us. Or you're being obtuse.

[Okaros]

Omtose, on 17 April 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

See, this is where the words 'mountain' and 'molehill' spring to mind. You believe Alkend just made innocous mistakes and YET YOU STILL try and use that to strengthen your case. Dude, you don't need to, your case based solely on his speculation of 'mystery roles' was fine by itself, but the way you try and crowbar other things in just makes me think that you know more about Alkend than the rest of us. Or you're being obtuse.

I like the word obtuse. I am going to try to work it into more of my everyday conversation.

Also the Air dijnn didn't seem to be aimed. More Random to me.