[Atrahal]

Galayn Lord, on 17 April 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

Ok, I think we are talking at cross-purposes.

You are saying that Korlat is defending Merrid because he purchased his info. Now, the info about both had their info for sale the same day. In my original point I assumed that there were two finders, one for each team.
If Korlat really found Merrid to be in his team, either one of the finders sold the information about his teammate or we have independent finders as others suggested.

I hope that makes it clearer.

Much clearer, thanks. We were coming at it from opposite ends. I agree that it's possible that someone from sold information about a player in their own faction, or there are finders that are not on the same faction ("independent"). Either one of those scenarios supports Korlat's defense of Merrid being the result of his purchasing Merrid's information and realizing they are teammates.

[Korlat]

Atrahal, on 17 April 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

Anthras, on 16 April 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 16 April 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

Actually, I never mentioned Merrid at all, much less as one of my points against Alkend... But you have reiterated in the last few posts again and again that "Merrid is HoA". And you have denied many times that you bought his info. So, something is not right.





Only thing that could make sense to me here is either you're lying about buying Merrid's info or you got the info another way - like maybe you're the Finder. And in a game like this, with the Bazaar making the info available to the highest bidder, that is a powerful role that just might end up on the HoA side of the equation. Either way, your lack of concern about Alkend and your certainty of Merrid are combining to produce a decent amount of information about you. Either you're a liar or you know things other people don't.

My reading comprehension is horrible today, apparently. Let me address individual points as I see fit.

Quote

So, what "slipups" of Alkend's did you mean? I didn't see you actually reference or discuss your thoughts on any of them.

The slip ups that you point out, and discuss with Alkend. I told you I believe they could be innocent slip ups. You want me to find your post (which I read and formed an opinion on) and debate it point by point? I don't agree with it as a whole, and I left it at that because I don't feel like defending someone who I don't care about in the slightest.

If you want me to be specific, his slip ups about the dreadfather, mystery roles, and alliances. I find those completely innocent, and that could have happened to me if I didn't go back and research the names.

First, yes, you asked me to do that in this same post, so I don't see how you can have a problem with it.

My point is exactly that - he IS innocent of making those mistakes. That's what is so revealing about it in context with the other things he says. He was not trying to manipulate information, he simply made a few mistakes and then said a couple other things that made those mistakes very important.

Quote

Quote

Also, let's say hypothetically you were right, and I did mention that - how does that make you less suspicious? If Alkend is, like I'm suggesting, from an alternate Faction with his own VCs, then it would make perfect sense for him to try to get Merrid lynched if he knew or guessed from Merrid's reveal that he was HoA. But because you are so sure Merrid is HoA, you aren't concerned about him and that also reduces your suspicion of Alkend....

I don't know why you make this connection. Are you thinking of someone else who is sure about Merrid being HoA? If so, no hard feelings, I've apparently done that often enough.

I see Merrid's pseudo reveal as a mistake of stress, to reveal as a merchant pretty much guarantees he is revealing as an HoA. I don't see what purpose he would have to do that if he were Alliance.

If Alkend is from an alternate faction he would be trying to get anyone lynched that wouldn't mess with his VC, other than himself of course. So yes, that would make sense. I don't see what Merrid being HoA instead of Alliance has to do with that at all.

The underlined was my point. You've accepted that Merrid is HoA. Here's Alkend's original post:

Alkend, on 15 April 2012 - 03:40 AM, said:

I read that as more that the Dreadfather has the potential to wreak havock on the thieves but is currently allied with them. Which isn't to say that the allience will be permanant through the game. Would make sense since there's another role out there, I'd guess they'd be semi-allied with the Houses of Agreement as well.

Also, if you take a look at the bazaar you'll see that the Riddle of Despair has been marked at how much it's been used, which is all the actions except the last.

I'm saying that with the knowledge he reveals here, I'm predicting he is from a mystery faction and allied with the HoA right now. When talking about his own role, I don't think he's dumb enough to just come out and speculate about himself (in this case, the Dreadfather), but rather speculate about some other unknown element (but which is really his own Role). So he assumes (innocently) that the Dreadfather is a mystery role, and then speculates that the other role is probably allied with HoA. That is where the Merrid connection is.

Merrid -> HoA <- Alkend

Quote

Okay, putting aside annoyance, I just went and took a close look at your case. I take back that I don't agree with it. I think Alkend could very well be a 2nd faction. My apologies, I'm sure I skimmed the long post.

Now, why do we want to lynch this independent instead of a member of the HoA? Do you feel the independant's VC is closer to fruition than the purchasing of two titles?

Quote

Only thing that could make sense to me here is either you're lying about buying Merrid's info or you got the info another way - like maybe you're the Finder. And in a game like this, with the Bazaar making the info available to the highest bidder, that is a powerful role that just might end up on the HoA side of the equation. Either way, your lack of concern about Alkend and your certainty of Merrid are combining to produce a decent amount of information about you. Either you're a liar or you know things other people don't.

My lack of concern about Alkend has been corrected, thanks to your (for once useful) badgering, and my certainty of Merrid is imagined.

I think you're stretching on the Merrid part, and rightfully angry about your Alkend case not receiving my attention. If you'd be so kind as to respond to my questions after the previous quote (namely the questions on lynch priority), that would be lovely.

First, you now say you kind of agree with my argument, but your actions and suggestions don't really reflect that. I think that having a mystery "role" alive and known, possibly currently allied with the outnumbered HoA but ALSO probably has either additional, separate VC's or has HoA's VCs while allied, is someone worth lynching. Their allegiance could obviously change - Alkend himself suggested it - but that makes him dangerous, too, and he could theoretically reach his VCs without really assisting the HoA anyway. So I think he is the best lynch candidate, hence my vote. Are you saying you want to vote for Merrid (someone we know is from the HoA, like you said? Or Korlat, who you also suspect to be HoA? I'm interested in your response here.

And no one else is voting. I think a timeout today is a bad idea.

Hmm, I'm trying to follow through the Alkend stuff to determine whether I think it warrants a vote. But I'm not quite sure who some of the people you're having conversations are in this post. Can you edit them in?

[Atrahal]

Korlat - I went back in the original post and added names to all the quote blocks. It's really just a back and forth between me and Anthras about Alkend, and then by extension Merrid. So when I said "you", I meant Anthras. "He" was usually Alkend.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 2 hours and 35 minutes remaining

12 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Atrahal, Barghast, Galayn Lord, Kessobahn, Korabas, Korlat, Merrid, Okaros, Omtose, Tiamatha

7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

2 Votes for Alkend ( Atrahal, Anthras )
1 Vote for Barghast ( Korabas )

Players not voted: Alkend, Barghast, Galayn Lord, Kessobahn, Korlat, Merrid, Okaros, Omtose, Tiamatha

[Alkend]

You know Atrahal, I really can't decide which I want more, for you to be in my faction, or not.

[Galayn Lord]

vote Alkend.


I think he has a good chance at coming up as mystery role.

[Korlat]

Atrahal, on 17 April 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

Korlat - I went back in the original post and added names to all the quote blocks. It's really just a back and forth between me and Anthras about Alkend, and then by extension Merrid. So when I said "you", I meant Anthras. "He" was usually Alkend.

Thanks.

I did express reservations similar to Anthras' earlier in the day - it felt as though Alkend had missed a fair few bits of information that might not have been obvious unless you read the source material closely. But you're right, the assumptions he has made do seem off and would fit the bill for a mystery faction player. So the case seems reasonable (although I wouldn't go as far as to say ironclad).

Although there are signs that public opinion is moving against the HoA, I don't think we're going to see a lynch based on faction any time soon - too many people too scared of lynching their teammates. But a mystery faction lynch might stand a chance of succeeding. And I think even if your hypothesis is wrong it will give us some valuable information about player connections and such.

Vote Alkend

EDIT: X-post with GL.

This post has been edited by Korlat: 17 April 2012 - 06:24 PM

[Korlat]

Alkend, on 17 April 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

You know Atrahal, I really can't decide which I want more, for you to be in my faction, or not.

I'd be interested to hear any defences you might have against Atrahal's accusations. Perhaps if you explain your thought process at the time of this post it will become more apparent.

[Alkend]

Korlat, on 17 April 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

Alkend, on 17 April 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

You know Atrahal, I really can't decide which I want more, for you to be in my faction, or not.

I'd be interested to hear any defences you might have against Atrahal's accusations. Perhaps if you explain your thought process at the time of this post it will become more apparent.

I did post a reply to Atrahal. It was ignored.

My thought processes right now? If Atrahal's a member of my faction he's weakend it if I get lynched. So obviously not good. The only reason I'd want him to be on my faction is that it would amuse me, since I find his case weak and rather irritating. There's been a number of noncommital 'interesting' comments, which I see as 'hey it's not me that's under suspicion, that's good', mostly because that's what I tend to do when I'm in that position and can't be bothered looking into the case properly OR I know they're not on my team, so lynching is fine by me.

The only way you can get people to lynch each other in this game is going to be by through painting them as one of the mystery roles. No one is going to want to come on and give away their faction by voting someone who's from the opposite faction, so scaring people with the mystery roles is the way to go, especially if you're attempting to divert attention. The reason I say that, is because my name's popped up as a potential lynch target two days running, just after people have been looking at Merrid. But I don't have their faction information. Quite a number of other people do, though.

[Atrahal]

Alkend, on 17 April 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

You know Atrahal, I really can't decide which I want more, for you to be in my faction, or not.

Well...I'm hoping you're not in my faction, since I'm voting for you. But I mean, like Korlat said - convince me. You haven't said much all game and your initial (and only) response to my case was not very strong. You mostly just talked about how you misread one or two things, rather than addressing each point against you. So you don't seem very concerned that you are the current lynch target - but then again, day may timeout without a lynch anyway, so maybe you feel you don't need to bother responding.

[Alkend]

Atrahal, on 17 April 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

Alkend, on 17 April 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

You know Atrahal, I really can't decide which I want more, for you to be in my faction, or not.

Well...I'm hoping you're not in my faction, since I'm voting for you. But I mean, like Korlat said - convince me. You haven't said much all game and your initial (and only) response to my case was not very strong. You mostly just talked about how you misread one or two things, rather than addressing each point against you. So you don't seem very concerned that you are the current lynch target - but then again, day may timeout without a lynch anyway, so maybe you feel you don't need to bother responding.

There wasn't really that much substance your post, so not really much I could address. It was heavily predicated on me making a mistake over info which was avaliable on another game's thread though, so I addressed that. Everything else was reading too much into me idly speculating on game setup.

As to not bothering responding, what do you want me to respond to? I don't really feel like going through another day of non-commital 'I think Atra's case is interesting' posts if I can help it.

[Atrahal]

Alkend, on 17 April 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 17 April 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

Alkend, on 17 April 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

You know Atrahal, I really can't decide which I want more, for you to be in my faction, or not.

Well...I'm hoping you're not in my faction, since I'm voting for you. But I mean, like Korlat said - convince me. You haven't said much all game and your initial (and only) response to my case was not very strong. You mostly just talked about how you misread one or two things, rather than addressing each point against you. So you don't seem very concerned that you are the current lynch target - but then again, day may timeout without a lynch anyway, so maybe you feel you don't need to bother responding.

There wasn't really that much substance your post, so not really much I could address. It was heavily predicated on me making a mistake over info which was avaliable on another game's thread though, so I addressed that. Everything else was reading too much into me idly speculating on game setup.

As to not bothering responding, what do you want me to respond to? I don't really feel like going through another day of non-commital 'I think Atra's case is interesting' posts if I can help it.

So basically you don't care if you're lynched and you aren't interested in defending yourself.

Ok then.

[Korabas]

So the case on Alkend is that he is probably of a Special faction and thus people don't mind voting for him because he isn't on their team?

remove vote

because it's going nowhere

I have done my best to catch up. But, this close to lynch I would really appreciate a synopsis on why Alkend seems to be going down.

[Alkend]

Atrahal, on 17 April 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

Alkend, on 17 April 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 17 April 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

Alkend, on 17 April 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

You know Atrahal, I really can't decide which I want more, for you to be in my faction, or not.

Well...I'm hoping you're not in my faction, since I'm voting for you. But I mean, like Korlat said - convince me. You haven't said much all game and your initial (and only) response to my case was not very strong. You mostly just talked about how you misread one or two things, rather than addressing each point against you. So you don't seem very concerned that you are the current lynch target - but then again, day may timeout without a lynch anyway, so maybe you feel you don't need to bother responding.

There wasn't really that much substance your post, so not really much I could address. It was heavily predicated on me making a mistake over info which was avaliable on another game's thread though, so I addressed that. Everything else was reading too much into me idly speculating on game setup.

As to not bothering responding, what do you want me to respond to? I don't really feel like going through another day of non-commital 'I think Atra's case is interesting' posts if I can help it.

So basically you don't care if you're lynched and you aren't interested in defending yourself.

Ok then.

Do you actually read what I write?

[Atrahal]

Alkend, on 17 April 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 17 April 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

Alkend, on 17 April 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 17 April 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

Alkend, on 17 April 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

You know Atrahal, I really can't decide which I want more, for you to be in my faction, or not.

Well...I'm hoping you're not in my faction, since I'm voting for you. But I mean, like Korlat said - convince me. You haven't said much all game and your initial (and only) response to my case was not very strong. You mostly just talked about how you misread one or two things, rather than addressing each point against you. So you don't seem very concerned that you are the current lynch target - but then again, day may timeout without a lynch anyway, so maybe you feel you don't need to bother responding.

There wasn't really that much substance your post, so not really much I could address. It was heavily predicated on me making a mistake over info which was avaliable on another game's thread though, so I addressed that. Everything else was reading too much into me idly speculating on game setup.

As to not bothering responding, what do you want me to respond to? I don't really feel like going through another day of non-commital 'I think Atra's case is interesting' posts if I can help it.

So basically you don't care if you're lynched and you aren't interested in defending yourself.

Ok then.

Do you actually read what I write?

Yes, I do. There was definite "substance" to my post; it's not an "ironclad" case, as someone put it, but in these circumstances, based on the game rules and what you said, I think it's likely you're part of an unknown faction and allied with one side or the other. You admit the mistake you made, which I pointed out is an innocent mistake - the reason you look bad is because of your speculation on the "mystery roles" and their alliances. It was your innocent mistakes that led you to these statements and so I'm voting for you.

Then again, we have Korabas saying that he's not sure he wants to vote for someone who probably isn't on his faction. Yeah...isn't that the opposite of how this game is played? You WANT to lynch people not on your faction, not the other way around.

So something's going on. I just don't know what it is. But with only an hour left, I don't have a lot of hope for people to get a lynch to happen - or even play the fucking game, for that matter. About half the players haven't said a damn thing on thread even though they have 20 "posts" of, "I'll be back later," "interesting," and "WTF???". Does. Not. Compute.

P.S. I was including you in that last paragraph.

[Alkend]

I still don't get it. Innocent mistake + speculation = mystery role?

In spite of the fact that chances are that my faction will be up for sale tomorrow? And there's still a pretty high chance that I'm in your faction?

I don't see why you're in such a hurry to lynch me.

Hell, I was tempted to reveal my faction myself if the train kept building against me.

At least we can agree that the 'interesting' posts are fucking annoying

[Korabas]

Atrahal, on 17 April 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

Then again, we have Korabas saying that he's not sure he wants to vote for someone who probably isn't on his faction. Yeah...isn't that the opposite of how this game is played? You WANT to lynch people not on your faction, not the other way around.

huh? What the hell are you talking about? Maybe you really don't read posts...

[Atrahal]

Korabas, on 17 April 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

So the case on Alkend is that he is probably of a Special faction and thus people don't mind voting for him because he isn't on their team?

remove vote

because it's going nowhere

I have done my best to catch up. But, this close to lynch I would really appreciate a synopsis on why Alkend seems to be going down.

Case in point. Read and weep.

[Korabas]

To me the thread is secondary to the Bazaar and fufilling your winning conditions behind the scene. So by all means continue to bitch and moan about non participation, just because people aren't posting on thread doesn't mean they arent playing the game. It seems speculating anything on thread just gets you the hoary eye of atrahal. I think Alkend might agree with me on there.

[Atrahal]

Alkend, on 17 April 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

I still don't get it. Innocent mistake + speculation = mystery role?

In spite of the fact that chances are that my faction will be up for sale tomorrow? And there's still a pretty high chance that I'm in your faction?

I don't see why you're in such a hurry to lynch me.

Hell, I was tempted to reveal my faction myself if the train kept building against me.

At least we can agree that the 'interesting' posts are fucking annoying

The wanting to lynch you comes from the case I made many, many hours ago. The hurry comes from the day about to time out. And no one is posting. I still think it would be good to lynch you. But if you want to reveal your faction, even better.