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I'll be blunt here.
I haven't looked at this thread in ages, and I'm glad I haven't, as it has degenerated into a bitchy whine-fest.
Anyone who attacks GRRM for LIVING HIS LIFE instead of writing novels needs a big smack in the head or a kick in the a$$, or possibly both, seeing some of these posts. What a pile of idiocy. Someday, you people may understand how the real world works.
As for your dissatisfaction, I'll explain something /very/ simple - if you don't like it, don't buy GRRM.
George RR Martin
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#122
stone monkey 
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Posted 03 December 2004 - 04:53 AM
Arguably Sullivan should just say he doesn't like it because it's not his "thing" and avoid the half-assed self-justification. But that's not what reviewers do, is it?
If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do. If some one maintains that two and two are five, or that Iceland is on the equator, you feel pity rather than anger, unless you know so little of arithmetic or geography that his opinion shakes your own contrary conviction. … So whenever you find yourself getting angry about a difference of opinion, be on your guard; you will probably find, on examination, that your belief is going beyond what the evidence warrants. Bertrand Russell
#123 Guest__*
Posted 28 April 2004 - 02:59 PM
IMHO Martin and Erikson are pretty equal...i prefer Martin's character building but Erikson seems far better at world building....since MT i'm not sure who i prefer these days....
As for WOT well I'm still seething from the disapointment..
As for WOT well I'm still seething from the disapointment..
#124 Guest_Mithfânion_*
Posted 12 June 2004 - 02:32 AM
Yes, early Spring 2005 seems the most likely date at this point as well, at the earliest. Still, if it comes out we'll also have Bakker's "The Thousandfold Thought", Hobb's "Soldier Son" and Erikson's "The Bonehunters" in that Spring/Summer period.
#125 Guest_Dark Daze_*
Posted 24 January 2005 - 07:44 PM
In a message dated 1/21/05 12:58:27 AM Mountain Standard Time, [Dark Daze] writes:
Have you written any salvagable material for the books that follow A Feast for Crows?
Some, but not as much as one might think.
George R.R. Martin
Have you written any salvagable material for the books that follow A Feast for Crows?
Some, but not as much as one might think.
George R.R. Martin
#126 Guest_Drake Labatt_*
Posted 07 January 2005 - 05:12 PM
Maybe this isn't news, but there's a new excerpt up on GRRM's website from AFfC. Deals with those Greyjoy clowns.
#127
RodeoRanch
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Posted 22 November 2004 - 04:19 PM
Isn't that enough? What has the world come to where we can no longer hate a fat man who is always late? Is this the end of civilization as we know it? 
Just for the record, I'm rather oblivious to Mr. Martin and his neverending quest to finish. I like his books and I'll buy the next one when I see it on the shelf but I'm certainly not stoked about it.
Just for the record, I'm rather oblivious to Mr. Martin and his neverending quest to finish. I like his books and I'll buy the next one when I see it on the shelf but I'm certainly not stoked about it.
#128 Guest_Mithfânion_*
Posted 24 January 2005 - 02:20 PM
. Erikson manages to deliver by the deadline, GRRM seems to keep finding excuses to delay.
What is he making excuses for Dros? He hasn't promised anything so he doesn't have anything to apologize for. What he's doing is keeping his fans up-to-date. He could just as easy choose to keep people in the dark, but luckily he doesn't.
What is he making excuses for Dros? He hasn't promised anything so he doesn't have anything to apologize for. What he's doing is keeping his fans up-to-date. He could just as easy choose to keep people in the dark, but luckily he doesn't.
#129 Guest_Pale Remnants_*
Posted 11 January 2005 - 09:47 AM
Just received a great present from Mrs Pale a signed edition Of GRRMs collected works "Rretrospective".Fantastic.
Over 400,000 words. More than 1,000 pages, including nine novellas, unpublished teleplays, rare, never before collected short stories, and a small volume's worth of introductions and commentary.
Contents:
ONE: A FOUR-COLOR FANBOY
Only Kids Are Afraid of the Dark
The Fortress
And Death His Legacy
TWO: BREAKING THROUGH
The Hero
The Exit to San Breta
The Second Kind of Loneliness
With Morning Comes Mistfall
THREE: THE LIGHT OF DISTANT STARS
A Song for Lya
This Tower of Ashes
And Seven Times Never Kill Man
The Stone City
Bitterblooms
The Way of Cross and Dragon
FOUR: SWORDS OF TURTLE CASTLE
The Lonely Songs of Laren Dorr
The Ice Dragon
In the Lost Lands
FIVE: HYBRIDS AND HORRORS
Meathouse Man
Remembering Melody
Sandkings
Nightflyers
The Monkey Treatment
The Pear-Shaped Man
FIVE: A TASTE OF TUF
A Beast for Norn (original version)
Guardians
SIX: HURRAH FOR HOLLYWOOD
The Road Less Travelled (Twilight Zone teleplay)
DOORWAYS pilot/ first draft (unproduced teleplay)
SEVEN: WILD CARDS
Shell Games
The Journal of Xavier Desmond
EIGHT: THE HEART IN CONFLICT
Bat Durston, the Bard, and Me (speech)
Under Siege
The Skin Trade
Unsound Variations
The Glass Flower
The Hedge Knight
Portraits of His Children
Over 400,000 words. More than 1,000 pages, including nine novellas, unpublished teleplays, rare, never before collected short stories, and a small volume's worth of introductions and commentary.
Contents:
ONE: A FOUR-COLOR FANBOY
Only Kids Are Afraid of the Dark
The Fortress
And Death His Legacy
TWO: BREAKING THROUGH
The Hero
The Exit to San Breta
The Second Kind of Loneliness
With Morning Comes Mistfall
THREE: THE LIGHT OF DISTANT STARS
A Song for Lya
This Tower of Ashes
And Seven Times Never Kill Man
The Stone City
Bitterblooms
The Way of Cross and Dragon
FOUR: SWORDS OF TURTLE CASTLE
The Lonely Songs of Laren Dorr
The Ice Dragon
In the Lost Lands
FIVE: HYBRIDS AND HORRORS
Meathouse Man
Remembering Melody
Sandkings
Nightflyers
The Monkey Treatment
The Pear-Shaped Man
FIVE: A TASTE OF TUF
A Beast for Norn (original version)
Guardians
SIX: HURRAH FOR HOLLYWOOD
The Road Less Travelled (Twilight Zone teleplay)
DOORWAYS pilot/ first draft (unproduced teleplay)
SEVEN: WILD CARDS
Shell Games
The Journal of Xavier Desmond
EIGHT: THE HEART IN CONFLICT
Bat Durston, the Bard, and Me (speech)
Under Siege
The Skin Trade
Unsound Variations
The Glass Flower
The Hedge Knight
Portraits of His Children
#130
Abyss
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Posted 17 November 2004 - 11:42 AM
Anyone want to start a betting pool on whether he's done by Dec 31, 2004?
- Abyss, a bettin' man.
- Abyss, a bettin' man.
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#131
First Seguleh
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Posted 19 November 2004 - 11:31 AM
May 15th, 2005. My birthday
#132 Guest_Dark Daze_*
Posted 03 December 2004 - 05:41 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Caldazar:
So he's discredited if he does find them believable and discredited if he doesn't?
If Patrick finds Rand's motives believable, than he and I have a difference of opinion about human nature and motives. If he doesn't find Rand's motives believable, his statement seems inconsistent but may merely lack precision.
UGGGGGGGgggggggggghhhhhhh
Mr. Martin has sucked both me and Stone Monkey back into this silly forum.
It may be time for Fun with Mr. Martin Part II...
#133
drosdelnoch
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Posted 12 June 2004 - 09:08 AM
Christmas is a little to optomistic, mind you will depends if he has it ready for September.
Will have a better idea closer to the end of the year as the catalogues that the publishers send out tend to get out dated towards the end of the thier time and a number of others are ready for publication. Will let you know if I hear anything.
Will have a better idea closer to the end of the year as the catalogues that the publishers send out tend to get out dated towards the end of the thier time and a number of others are ready for publication. Will let you know if I hear anything.
#134 Guest_Drake Labatt_*
Posted 10 June 2004 - 04:39 PM
Just tell yourself that you'll be reading AFFC in 2005. That way, GRRM will really have to phone it in to disappoint you.
#135
Hume
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Posted 27 January 2005 - 02:35 AM
Myself personally I really dont care when it comes out, just as long as it comes out.
Unlike a LOT of people out there I didnt take to martins work as much as most of them, He's a good writer no doubt, I just dont like the world he's presented that much and some of the sub-stories just suck, like Daenerys.
Unlike a LOT of people out there I didnt take to martins work as much as most of them, He's a good writer no doubt, I just dont like the world he's presented that much and some of the sub-stories just suck, like Daenerys.
#136
RodeoRanch
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Posted 23 November 2004 - 07:37 AM
And he's been stuck on book 4 for how many years? Three? Wow.
Makes ya wonder why some authors, like SE can pump out a book in a year but it takes other years to do it.
Makes ya wonder why some authors, like SE can pump out a book in a year but it takes other years to do it.
#137 Guest_Reave the Just_*
Posted 16 June 2004 - 04:28 AM
Review of Game of Thrones that might be of interest to people (cracking website as well):
http://www.infinityp...ion/thrones.htm
http://www.infinityp...ion/thrones.htm
#138 Guest_Zollo_*
Posted 06 December 2004 - 12:51 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Zollo:
Long time lurker here, but couldn't keep myself from writing a reaction to the review that was posted on the previous page.
For starters, to get things straight: I am both a huge Erikson and Martin fan, though for different reasons and in different ways. Furthermore I am not part of the hallelujah-Jordan movement, nor am I off the opinion that his work is garbage.
_George R.R. Martin's "Song of Ice and Fire" series, of which the Game of Thrones is the first of a projected seven volumes (the fourth of which is due to be published in mid-2004),_
Heh, sadly, no AFFC as of yet, spring next year if we're lucky.
is the most overrated fantasy series of the day. The poor writing and the lack of likeable or believable characters combine to create an unworkable mess.
Yep, it is important to start a review with a catchy phrase, leaving no doubt whatsoever about the direction of the following review and the lack of objectivity.
_Martin's show-biz mind comes up with numerous ludicrous moments. His "heroes" are impossible to take seriously because they keep doing impossibly dumb things such as putting themselves and their families into the hands of their enemies. His "villains" are impossible to take seriously because they are incapable of successfully assassinating a middle aged woman, or, for that matter, a young child._
Hugely taken out of context. I would really like to know how the reviewer fabricated this piece of stunning 'evidence'.
_(The fact that Martin's characters are generally trying to commit such deeds makes for extremely unpleasant as well as frustrating reading)._
It is a wonder the man made it to the last page.
_The scare quotes two paragraphs above indicate the moral ambiguity of Martin's universe. He does not really believe in heroism or villainy, which makes for an extremely blah story. Granted that two-shaded, black or white storytelling is _almost_ as mindless as writing gets, Martin still does not improve on this. He actually falls short of even that low standard. His one shade of gray in the middle for everybody is even more mindless. It also creates a story that is inherently uninteresting - why should the reader care who "wins" when one character is as good/bad as another?_
Because Martins characters are grey (=human)in general means that they are less interesting? The reviewer would prefer a story in which shiny goodlooking heroes enter the stage to run through shifty-eyed, evil cackling villains?
_Like horror movie protagonists, Martin's characters are often defenestrated, throat-slashed, thrown into the river, or set on fire - yet they just keep coming. The extremely graphic violence would be less unbearable if it weren't all so ineffective._
Violence? A lot? Yes, that is true. The world of Westeros is basically set in the Middle Ages. Not one of the most peaceful eras.
Extremely graphic? Well, no idea, one persons definition of extremely graphic does not equal everyones opinion. Since I have never seen nor heard about an age ban....
_The motivations and actions of the characters are completely unbelievable. How much familial loyalty would a real man have left if his father had the young man's girlfriend raped by an entire company of soldiers (including the young man's brother) because she was unworthy of their family?_
Hmm, lets see. Here our reviewer aims at something essential in Martins books. As it turns out, the latters characters are wholly unbelievable. This is supported by an example of how family loyalty might be affected if X happened (see quote).
Woo woo! Here comes the clue train. Last stop is you! You are apparently of the opinion that the characterization is essentially wrong, and that is fine. Backing up an accusation of that magnitude by using an _incorrect_ example though.... Sorry, mister Reviewer, but am I to take you serious? Did you even read the books?
_That Martin revels in such moments is bad enough. That his characters' responses to them are so flat goes far beyond the bounds of credibility. Fantasy setting or not, people are simply not like this. No author who understands human nature so little can have much of interest to say._
Yes, well, it turned out your one example to strengthen this claim, is an incorrect one.
_Martin believes that he has single-handedly discovered a major flaw common to almost all other writers: that their major characters inevitably survive to the end (or close to the end) of the production. He does not understand that he is putting the cart before the horse, and so missing the point entirely. Of course other authors have "mortal" characters. However, other authors are simply intelligent enough to realize that the major characters of a work (or a real-life episode) are generally to be found among those who are alive for a significant part of it, and to construct their storytelling accordingly. By repeatedly focusing on characters who shortly thereafter meet their demises, Martin succeeds only in punishing his readers with a series of unproductive false starts._
Erm...yeah...lets see...major characters huh? The first book had 8 POV's. One didn't make it to the end of that book. The second book had the 7 remaining POV's plus 2 new ones. They all made it to the end of the book (though one of the new ones dissappeared from the stage for the time being). The third book started out with the 8 remaining POV's plus 2 new ones. 1 of them didn't make it to the end of the book. So at the end of book 3, after a couple of thousand pages, 6 POV's from the first book are still around, 2 didn't make it and a total of 9 POV's is alive and kicking as we speak (plus that one offstage). At least two more POV's will be joining the feast in the next book.
_Martin's writing is similar in many ways to that of another very flawed writer, one whose many faults are more widely recognized: Terry Goodkind. Martin shares Goodkind's penchant for violence and sex, though Martin's versions are even more graphic and unappealing (he does, fortunately, lack Goodkind's particular brand of sappy smarminess). Nevertheless, the comparison ultimately favors Goodkind because he can at least wrap a story up, something Martin, like Robert Jordan, is incapable of doing. Goodkind is under the disadvantage of having published eight books with which to annoy readers, as opposed to Martin's three (in this series)._
Don't make me laugh.
#139
Abyss
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Posted 19 November 2004 - 10:13 AM
quote:
Originally posted by RodeoRanch:
Maybe he's really dead and the whole thing is a massive sham in order to keep book sales high.
I love that rumour. Apprently Robert Jordan also died years ago and Kevin Anderson and Alan Dean Foster have been switching off writing every WoT book since 'Lord of Chaos'.
Re: the GRRM FoC pool - Okay - pick a date. Closest to actual publication date as finally announced by the publisher wins honour, prestige and glory.
I call June 15, 2005.
- Abyss, semi-skeptic
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#140
caladanbrood
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Posted 20 March 2005 - 03:32 AM
Well, I guess I can't argue with that...
O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde; keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi.
