[Olar Ethil]

 Tennes, on 15 March 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

In a lot of my notes so far Atrahal has been the aggressor, attacking quite a few people. You see this first with Rashan on post number 68. Number 142 he agrees with Karosis about Korvalian and then has a pissing match with tellan. I haven't went further than this in my notes yet but I think Atrahal is more than likely town, I cannot see scum being that "out there". I asked you about him because something seemed off about him but over a re read i'm not sure at all. I am going to have a look through and see what I can find



edit, spelling

I've had a similar feeling in regards to Atrahal, there was a point, especially after his exchanges and agreements with Karosis that I felt suspicious of him but re-reading his posts he doesn't strike me as very scummy, this is quite a gut feeling though. I honestly don't think scum if they were a certain type of player would always keep quiet and be non-confrontational, so it is not even this angle that gives me that feeling. Of course Karosis showed up as inno and so maybe this is effecting my judgement in Atrahals favour since I see to have the two linked in my mind.

Barghasts list of low posters struck me as scummy though. Yes, low posters can be concerning as the game goes on but it is better to have a post with content, discussion and opinions rather than have a high number of posts in which little is being said.

I am still interested in Tellan and Rashan, Rashan was very opposed to the possible symping tellan seemed to be doing for him and Tellan said this was not the case and after this was picked up by a few people became suspicious of Rashan. Tellan said it was less a defence and more an attack against Atrahal and I though yesterday it could be a case of fake symping but the whole thing leaves me unsure. I can't see Tellan taking that long to pick up Rashan's hints and then turning suspicion on him so fast, it is just so clumsy. That is what makes me think that it could be a case of fake symping, I was wrong about it being fake symping on behalf of Karosis but there were few other players getting heat around the time, Fener had a couple of casual votes but there is little to go off there since he has said little and it was mainly based on the history of the avatar so I can't see it having become such a great threat.

[Kalse]

I'm here.

Another thing to remember. We can't analyze these trains as in a normal game. It is certainly not in scum's best interests, especially early on, to vote off town members. This only decreases their number of recruiting possibilities in the recruiting pool. I would venture that, unless the scum is sure they are hitting an opposing recruiter, that it's NOT a good idea to lynch town off. All that does is decrease the number of people that the cults have to fight over.

With that said, I think it's equally likely that there were scum off, as well as on yesterdays train. Unlike a normal game, unless they are relatively sure that they are hitting an opponent, they really is no incentive to get a townie lynched, just for the sake of getting a lynch. ( this would change later in the game as a recruiter gets more recruits and can see the finish line, thus taking recruits away from his opponent) This makes me less suspect of the people that just did a drive by vote yesterday.

[Kalse]

Also,

vote liosan

for now. yeah yeah yeah, i'm being a sour puss, but your RP isn't helping us in any way and is incredibly distracting. This vote is subject to change upon Liosan actually becoming useful.

[D'riss]

OK, after doing my reread, I'm thinking I feel better about Rashan. It would be stupid for scum to speculate on thread about bribes. I think this was just innocent game questioning, however it did peak all of our curiosity. Now what seems suspicious to me is who decided to exploit this faux pas.
So now the seed is planted in our heads and this rings true because we are all overly suspicious anyways.

 Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

If you are scum, pathetic attempt. If you are town, then fight goddamn you! Remember you're part of a team and if you're lynched, it hurts the whole team and not just your lazy ass. Yes, even on day 1. I would prefer to think you're silly scum - you do want to earn my respect don't you?

This bothered most of us. Good ol Atrahal being so helpful!

I feel like the next slew of posts are trying too hard to be that helpful, over eager townie. There were sooooo many spam posts and 'helpful' discussions that there were just too many to quote. Here's just one example:

 Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

So my suspects at the moment, as well as Rashan (duh), are Omtose, because of his questioning of one of Korvalain's posts which I found strange (and which Tellan also took umbrage over ). It struck me as someone trying too hard to think as a townie and pointing out something as signalling which would only make sense if the person doing it (Korv in this case) was in fact a townie himself. Yeah, I know this is a mega-stretch at the moment but I plead day 1.

My other suspects, according to a mathematical formula for finding scum which I have devised, are Kalse and D'riss. No case, no post analysis, no gut feeling, just pure and simple maths. Who can argue against the logic of mathematics eh?

And then we are constantly reminded of time. Trying to push a lynch?

 Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

Ok, we have about 5 hours and very little consensus.

Of the currently voted-on players, I personally have no compunction about switching my vote to any of them (if for no other reason than to demonstrate that I am not blinkering myself to other possibilities), except for Fener and Karosis. Fener because people aren't even voting on gut feeling, just past games and silliness. Karosis because, while I agree that his constant vote jumping makes his vote considerably weaker and harder to follow for others, it doesn't strike me as something scum, who I reckon would be more careful not to stand out like that, would do.

 Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

 Rashan, on 14 March 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

Actually, there are 11 hours left.

Stupid wrong timezone setting!

 Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Almost half the players have votes on them. Can everyone stop acting so scummy please

So in summary, I'm going to:

vote Atrahal

He's just too overeager. A high volume of nonsense posts or just seeming to 'help everyone out'. Seemed to really push everyone on the lynch last night by reminding constantly of the time and to vote.

[D'riss]

 Tennes, on 15 March 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

In a lot of my notes so far Atrahal has been the aggressor, attacking quite a few people. You see this first with Rashan on post number 68. Number 142 he agrees with Karosis about Korvalian and then has a pissing match with tellan. I haven't went further than this in my notes yet but I think Atrahal is more than likely town, I cannot see scum being that "out there". I asked you about him because something seemed off about him but over a re read i'm not sure at all. I am going to have a look through and see what I can find



edit, spelling

I read his going after multiple people as no clear direction, and trying to raise suspicion on multiple fronts.

[Liosan]

 Barghast, on 15 March 2012 - 04:27 AM, said:

As a humble Senior Magistrate, I would strongly advise the Imperial Historian to cease narrating in third person, lest he attract the ire of the court.


I also don't see anything unsound in Rash's suggestion. Yes, we are all targets of recruitment. Yes, it was fairly likely Karosis was inno. However, having avoided the noose once, Karosis would always remain niggle at the back of people's minds, with WIFOM oozing out of every line that was to be written about him in the future. Eventually, he would become a bad distraction, and a very easy target for scum willing to get an empty lynch.

it's regretful, but once he came out and started speaking publically like that, we could not afford not to lynch him.

While arguing the soundness of the eunuch Rashan's suggestion, the Senior Magistrate Barghast himself made the logical argument for its unsoundness. Barghast noted that had Karosis lived that day, he would certainly be a target again soon. Why, then, would the recruiter of a warlord waste their time bringing Karosis into their fold, only to lose their recruit soon thereafter, when they could spend that time recruiting a minister with a greater chance of surviving further into the conflict?

Thus Barghast's attempted supported of Rashan showcased the follies of Rashan's logic even more.

[Liosan]

Just as Silanah was a new Emperor, it was clear that many of the ministers were new to Imperial service as well. Experienced only in defending rural towns from small bands of violent scum and inexperienced at the influence-peddling games of court, many ministers argued that the warlords' lobbyists would be active members of the court trying to lead discussions. Olar Ethil, Grand Commandant, was one who made such an argument:

 Olar Ethil, on 15 March 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

 Tennes, on 15 March 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

In a lot of my notes so far Atrahal has been the aggressor, attacking quite a few people. You see this first with Rashan on post number 68. Number 142 he agrees with Karosis about Korvalian and then has a pissing match with tellan. I haven't went further than this in my notes yet but I think Atrahal is more than likely town, I cannot see scum being that "out there". I asked you about him because something seemed off about him but over a re read i'm not sure at all. I am going to have a look through and see what I can find



edit, spelling

I've had a similar feeling in regards to Atrahal, there was a point, especially after his exchanges and agreements with Karosis that I felt suspicious of him but re-reading his posts he doesn't strike me as very scummy, this is quite a gut feeling though. I honestly don't think scum if they were a certain type of player would always keep quiet and be non-confrontational, so it is not even this angle that gives me that feeling. Of course Karosis showed up as inno and so maybe this is effecting my judgement in Atrahals favour since I see to have the two linked in my mind.

Barghasts list of low posters struck me as scummy though. Yes, low posters can be concerning as the game goes on but it is better to have a post with content, discussion and opinions rather than have a high number of posts in which little is being said.

I am still interested in Tellan and Rashan, Rashan was very opposed to the possible symping tellan seemed to be doing for him and Tellan said this was not the case and after this was picked up by a few people became suspicious of Rashan. Tellan said it was less a defence and more an attack against Atrahal and I though yesterday it could be a case of fake symping but the whole thing leaves me unsure. I can't see Tellan taking that long to pick up Rashan's hints and then turning suspicion on him so fast, it is just so clumsy. That is what makes me think that it could be a case of fake symping, I was wrong about it being fake symping on behalf of Karosis but there were few other players getting heat around the time, Fener had a couple of casual votes but there is little to go off there since he has said little and it was mainly based on the history of the avatar so I can't see it having become such a great threat.

The minsiters who argued this were of course quite deluded by their inexperience. There was no logical reason why recruiters hidden at court would behave in any way similar to the killers of more violent affairs. As in many court affairs prior, the recruiters were much more likely to remain quiet early on so as to reduce any chance of their being lynched by the court before they could gather a suitable force of retainers. Only once several minions had they gathered would these corrupters begin to voice themselves more actively so as to provide leadership to their followers.

[Liosan]

 Kalse, on 15 March 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

I'm here.

Another thing to remember. We can't analyze these trains as in a normal game. It is certainly not in scum's best interests, especially early on, to vote off town members. This only decreases their number of recruiting possibilities in the recruiting pool. I would venture that, unless the scum is sure they are hitting an opposing recruiter, that it's NOT a good idea to lynch town off. All that does is decrease the number of people that the cults have to fight over.

With that said, I think it's equally likely that there were scum off, as well as on yesterdays train. Unlike a normal game, unless they are relatively sure that they are hitting an opponent, they really is no incentive to get a townie lynched, just for the sake of getting a lynch. ( this would change later in the game as a recruiter gets more recruits and can see the finish line, thus taking recruits away from his opponent) This makes me less suspect of the people that just did a drive by vote yesterday.

The above excerpt from Kalse, Minister of Law, shows that he was a man who did not give countenance to the greater picture. Indeed, had there been only a sole corruptive influence within the court, his statement may have rung more true. Alas, for it was known that there were many factions competing for court influence, and each of these factions were certainly interested in eliminating each other as quickly as possible.

[Liosan]

 D, on 15 March 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

OK, after doing my reread, I'm thinking I feel better about Rashan. It would be stupid for scum to speculate on thread about bribes. I think this was just innocent game questioning, however it did peak all of our curiosity. Now what seems suspicious to me is who decided to exploit this faux pas.
So now the seed is planted in our heads and this rings true because we are all overly suspicious anyways.

 Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

If you are scum, pathetic attempt. If you are town, then fight goddamn you! Remember you're part of a team and if you're lynched, it hurts the whole team and not just your lazy ass. Yes, even on day 1. I would prefer to think you're silly scum - you do want to earn my respect don't you?

This bothered most of us. Good ol Atrahal being so helpful!

I feel like the next slew of posts are trying too hard to be that helpful, over eager townie. There were sooooo many spam posts and 'helpful' discussions that there were just too many to quote. Here's just one example:

 Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

So my suspects at the moment, as well as Rashan (duh), are Omtose, because of his questioning of one of Korvalain's posts which I found strange (and which Tellan also took umbrage over ). It struck me as someone trying too hard to think as a townie and pointing out something as signalling which would only make sense if the person doing it (Korv in this case) was in fact a townie himself. Yeah, I know this is a mega-stretch at the moment but I plead day 1.

My other suspects, according to a mathematical formula for finding scum which I have devised, are Kalse and D'riss. No case, no post analysis, no gut feeling, just pure and simple maths. Who can argue against the logic of mathematics eh?

And then we are constantly reminded of time. Trying to push a lynch?

 Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

Ok, we have about 5 hours and very little consensus.

Of the currently voted-on players, I personally have no compunction about switching my vote to any of them (if for no other reason than to demonstrate that I am not blinkering myself to other possibilities), except for Fener and Karosis. Fener because people aren't even voting on gut feeling, just past games and silliness. Karosis because, while I agree that his constant vote jumping makes his vote considerably weaker and harder to follow for others, it doesn't strike me as something scum, who I reckon would be more careful not to stand out like that, would do.

 Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

 Rashan, on 14 March 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

Actually, there are 11 hours left.

Stupid wrong timezone setting!

 Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Almost half the players have votes on them. Can everyone stop acting so scummy please

So in summary, I'm going to:

vote Atrahal

He's just too overeager. A high volume of nonsense posts or just seeming to 'help everyone out'. Seemed to really push everyone on the lynch last night by reminding constantly of the time and to vote.

The night past had been the 100th anniversary of D'riss, Minister of Public Services' day of birth. Feasting and drinking went on into the wee hours of the morning, with D'riss consuming more than any three other party-goers. Alas, the next day his court speeches were punctuated with an unending stream of sickly orange vomit...

[Olar Ethil]

 D, on 15 March 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

 Tennes, on 15 March 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

In a lot of my notes so far Atrahal has been the aggressor, attacking quite a few people. You see this first with Rashan on post number 68. Number 142 he agrees with Karosis about Korvalian and then has a pissing match with tellan. I haven't went further than this in my notes yet but I think Atrahal is more than likely town, I cannot see scum being that "out there". I asked you about him because something seemed off about him but over a re read i'm not sure at all. I am going to have a look through and see what I can find



edit, spelling

I read his going after multiple people as no clear direction, and trying to raise suspicion on multiple fronts.

Though he speculated a lot he seemed rather set on his Rashan case. I think Karosis was the one that seemed to be going after multiple people/raising suspicions so maybe that eclipsed it to a certain extent.

 Liosan, on 15 March 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

Just as Silanah was a new Emperor, it was clear that many of the ministers were new to Imperial service as well. Experienced only in defending rural towns from small bands of violent scum and inexperienced at the influence-peddling games of court, many ministers argued that the warlords' lobbyists would be active members of the court trying to lead discussions. Olar Ethil, Grand Commandant, was one who made such an argument:

 Olar Ethil, on 15 March 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

 Tennes, on 15 March 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

In a lot of my notes so far Atrahal has been the aggressor, attacking quite a few people. You see this first with Rashan on post number 68. Number 142 he agrees with Karosis about Korvalian and then has a pissing match with tellan. I haven't went further than this in my notes yet but I think Atrahal is more than likely town, I cannot see scum being that "out there". I asked you about him because something seemed off about him but over a re read i'm not sure at all. I am going to have a look through and see what I can find



edit, spelling

I've had a similar feeling in regards to Atrahal, there was a point, especially after his exchanges and agreements with Karosis that I felt suspicious of him but re-reading his posts he doesn't strike me as very scummy, this is quite a gut feeling though. I honestly don't think scum if they were a certain type of player would always keep quiet and be non-confrontational, so it is not even this angle that gives me that feeling. Of course Karosis showed up as inno and so maybe this is effecting my judgement in Atrahals favour since I see to have the two linked in my mind.

Barghasts list of low posters struck me as scummy though. Yes, low posters can be concerning as the game goes on but it is better to have a post with content, discussion and opinions rather than have a high number of posts in which little is being said.

I am still interested in Tellan and Rashan, Rashan was very opposed to the possible symping tellan seemed to be doing for him and Tellan said this was not the case and after this was picked up by a few people became suspicious of Rashan. Tellan said it was less a defence and more an attack against Atrahal and I though yesterday it could be a case of fake symping but the whole thing leaves me unsure. I can't see Tellan taking that long to pick up Rashan's hints and then turning suspicion on him so fast, it is just so clumsy. That is what makes me think that it could be a case of fake symping, I was wrong about it being fake symping on behalf of Karosis but there were few other players getting heat around the time, Fener had a couple of casual votes but there is little to go off there since he has said little and it was mainly based on the history of the avatar so I can't see it having become such a great threat.

The minsiters who argued this were of course quite deluded by their inexperience. There was no logical reason why recruiters hidden at court would behave in any way similar to the killers of more violent affairs. As in many court affairs prior, the recruiters were much more likely to remain quiet early on so as to reduce any chance of their being lynched by the court before they could gather a suitable force of retainers. Only once several minions had they gathered would these corrupters begin to voice themselves more actively so as to provide leadership to their followers.

So is that a long winded way of calling me a newb? I'm going to take that as a yes.

The thing is...people don't always greatly alter their play styles because of the role they are given, some do, other don't, they have a certain style of play and stick with it. While your suggestion might be the most likely one, might even be the logical approach, it doesn't mean that is how they will do it. My main point is i'd rather not limit myself solely based on such criteria. But I could say this until I am blue in the face.

[Rashan]

I stayed up way too late last night. I'm so sleepy today.

Liosan is annoying me. Not the RP, but the content of what he is saying.

Whoever said Tellan didn't pick up on whatever hints, you twist. Again you twist. As soon as he began to defend me I told him, straight up, to stop. It's obvious and annoying, and in my opinion it's a way to come off as a symp (who we tend not to lynch).

Vote Tellan

as of right now, I believe him most likely to be scum.

[Omtose]

I fucking hate IE, I just lost all I had written!!!! FUCK!!!!!!!!

I will back in a bit.....going to instal firefox.....which I only hate marjinally less....



FUCK!

[Omtose]

Now for a shorter version of what I just lost.

WARNING!!!! ROLE SPECULATION AHEAD WARNING!!!!

In almost every cult game I have played in, the leader had the to choose between a recruit attempt or a kill attempt every night.

NOW BACK TO NORMAL DISCUSSION

I am more alarmed that people seam relieved there was no kills last night. Scares the shit out of me. We more than likely doubled the cults numbers last night.

I hope they missed last night. TDMI5 so there could have been some blocking going on.

[Rashan]

Were people relieved? I was just surprised.

But I've never played a cult master guy before, so I didn't know they typically choose between kill and recruit.

[Atrahal]

Looks like I'm getting some love. I'll respond to D'riss' case.

[Liosan]

 Omtose, on 15 March 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

We more than likely doubled the cults numbers last night.

In those days, none could say for certain just how many factions were trying to exert influence on the Emperor and his court. Some might've suggested that there were but two, but given the number of ministers attending (21) it could easily have been three or even four vile factions recruiting from the loyal "town" of minsiters.

[Atrahal]

I have to say I'm pretty confused by this case attempt. Not the attempt itself, I'm glad D'riss has finally decided to join in proper-like, but the case, in my perhaps completely biased opinion, tries very hard to make mountains out of molehills. Ok, here we go:

 D, on 15 March 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

OK, after doing my reread, I'm thinking I feel better about Rashan. It would be stupid for scum to speculate on thread about bribes. I think this was just innocent game questioning, however it did peak all of our curiosity. Now what seems suspicious to me is who decided to exploit this faux pas.
So now the seed is planted in our heads and this rings true because we are all overly suspicious anyways.

Exploit this faux pas? I would argue it was pointing something out that struck me, and judging from the initial reaction, I wasn't the only one who had felt that way. 'Exploiting' would, I'd argue, be jumping on someone else's case/argument and pushing that.

Your 'seed is planted' line makes it sound as if my terrible plan to get Rashan lynched was only foiled at the very last minute, which was clearly not the case. You need to explain exactly why your reread suddenly clears Rashan in your mind.

 D, on 15 March 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

This bothered most of us. Good ol Atrahal being so helpful!

This was to do with me responding to Rashan's early 'woe is me, I'm going to get lynched' comment. What is D'riss' comment here meant to prove? Is this even part of the case? On the one hand, D'riss is clearly being sarcastic, but on the other hand he validates my comment by saying that it did in fact resonate with a lot of players.

 D, on 15 March 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

I feel like the next slew of posts are trying too hard to be that helpful, over eager townie. There were sooooo many spam posts and 'helpful' discussions that there were just too many to quote. Here's just one example:

 Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

So my suspects at the moment, as well as Rashan (duh), are Omtose, because of his questioning of one of Korvalain's posts which I found strange (and which Tellan also took umbrage over ). It struck me as someone trying too hard to think as a townie and pointing out something as signalling which would only make sense if the person doing it (Korv in this case) was in fact a townie himself. Yeah, I know this is a mega-stretch at the moment but I plead day 1.

My other suspects, according to a mathematical formula for finding scum which I have devised, are Kalse and D'riss. No case, no post analysis, no gut feeling, just pure and simple maths. Who can argue against the logic of mathematics eh?

Of all my spam and semi-serious posts that D'riss could have picked - and I admit there've been a few, he picks this?! I really don't understand. I outline who I find suspicious and why....and that's a crime?

 D, on 15 March 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

And then we are constantly reminded of time. Trying to push a lynch?

Ok, what? Constantly reminded of time? D'riss only gives one example of me saying how much time left, while the other one simply corrects my mistake. Tell me, if I was pushing a lynch, why didn't I jump on Karosis when the votes started piling on him? On top of that, I'm hardly the only one who mentioned how much time was left. This was just a really weird statement to make, and struck me as very weak.

 D, on 15 March 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

So in summary, I'm going to:

vote Atrahal

He's just too overeager. A high volume of nonsense posts or just seeming to 'help everyone out'. Seemed to really push everyone on the lynch last night by reminding constantly of the time and to vote.

I really don't understand how D'riss comes to this reasoning. Yes, I am eager to post and play - that's just how I happen to be playing. If you get the feeling that I'm faking helpfulness, then fine, fair enough. But, first off, define being helpful please. Helpful would be, what? Being agreeable, discussing people's ideas, etc, right? I think most would argue that I've been more aggressive than helpful. But it's that latter sentence which really confounds me. I seemed to push everyone by constantly reminding them of the time and vote. So I mentioned the time, what, once? And I believe the only time I mentioned the vote was to ask someone to REMOVE their vote from Karosis when he came on as I thought he was on L-1. So this is patently untrue reasoning.

[Atrahal]

 D, on 15 March 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

I read his going after multiple people as no clear direction, and trying to raise suspicion on multiple fronts.

Can you go into more detail here please, D'riss. Which multiple people did I go after. There was Rashan, and then....what?

Perhaps you mean Tellan, who made a case on ME and then I responded?
Perhaps you mean that I mentioned Omtose as being suspicious to me?
Perhaps you mean the fact that I agreed, once, with Karosis that he might have something about Kalse?

So, at a stretch, that's...what? 3 people out of 20? In addition, wouldn't it strike you as very strange if I mentioned just one person on day 1?

[Rashan]

Holy shit Atrahal, you just argued his case the exact way I argued yours against me. They're both equally justified aka not.

[Atrahal]

 Rashan, on 15 March 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

Holy shit Atrahal, you just argued his case the exact way I argued yours against me. They're both equally justified aka not.

If you are town, Rashan, then I assume you were rubbing your brow and sighing loudly at the time.