[Sorrit]

Okaros, on 14 March 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

Geez, it's no wonder people are turning up to check in and then leaving again. We're not even halfway through day one and already people are getting jumped on!

On top of that, between Karosis and Atrahal no one can win. If you defend yourself too much that is suspicious, but if you don't defend yourself at all you're also suspicious!

Day one cases are a crapshoot, and I don't blame Rashan for his resignation. It's pretty much impossible to against a day one case because anything you do or say will be micro-analysed. Sure, scum can slip up on day one as much as any other day, but it takes the context of the following days to find anything useful.

So with that, I am going to head off to work on my kickass Noh Dancing. I'll be back in time to vote. Try not to get your collective knickers twisted too much.

People should be jumped on. There are no free rides in Mafia. Well that one time when Maccy was drunk but other then that no free rides in mafia.

[Sorrit]

Karosis, on 14 March 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

Okaros, on 14 March 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

Geez, it's no wonder people are turning up to check in and then leaving again. We're not even halfway through day one and already people are getting jumped on!

On top of that, between Karosis and Atrahal no one can win. If you defend yourself too much that is suspicious, but if you don't defend yourself at all you're also suspicious!

Day one cases are a crapshoot, and I don't blame Rashan for his resignation. It's pretty much impossible to against a day one case because anything you do or say will be micro-analysed. Sure, scum can slip up on day one as much as any other day, but it takes the context of the following days to find anything useful.

So with that, I am going to head off to work on my kickass Noh Dancing. I'll be back in time to vote. Try not to get your collective knickers twisted too much.

Pfft. As far as I'm aware, at no point has anyone been accused of being scummy for not defending themselves enough. If people are scared of being jumped on, then they have something to hide. If you are RI, then your job is to ferret out information, you are not supposed to have a self-preservation instinct. You start with no information, and you are not especially useful to the town's cause beyond making up the numbers unless you are making yourself busy on thread. So why aren't you even trying, Okaros?


Here is an example of the sort of player that I was saying we should be looking for back at the beginning of the day. This is such a blatant exhibition of the cancerous attitude that so often makes Day 1 useless. The more we allow players to get away with flaunting points of view like this, the more it will happen and you'll end up with Day 1s with no cases and no lynch. Might as well just start from Day 2, huh? The game has a fixed starting point and the onus is on you to play from that starting point, not from whenever you feel like the game is worth playing from. And if you're not doing that, the onus should be on the rest of us to force you to.

Much as I was starting to grow attached to the case on Kalse, I cannot allow this to stand. Yes, I'm switching vote again, make of that what you will, but I'm sick and tired of this sort of thinking and I feel I have to make a point. What would a scum player like more than to drift to Day 2 without anyone giving them any heat? And what is Okaros trying to do if not exactly that?

Remove Vote

Vote Okaros

While I happen to currently like my elaborate case on Mockra. I could easily join this movement.

[Tellan]

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

Rashan, on 13 March 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

:yawn:

I can already tell I'm going to be lynched today, unless someone does something crazy.

If you are scum, pathetic attempt. If you are town, then fight goddamn you! Remember you're part of a team and if you're lynched, it hurts the whole team and not just your lazy ass. Yes, even on day 1. I would prefer to think you're silly scum - you do want to earn my respect don't you?

This post struck me as odd. Telling someone to "fight goddamn you!" when there isn't really much for them to say seems like fishing for an over-reaction.

[Sorrit]

Karosis, on 14 March 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

Rashan, on 14 March 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

And I fail to see how that makes me lazy. There's nothing to defend from, nothing I can say.

I'll make a case of my own if I find something that deserves a case. But I'm not going to create a terrible case on someone else just to save my own ass.

It's not to save your own ass, it's to provide information to the town. Shake a few trees and see what falls out. Otherwise there's no way people are going to be able to form opinions about the 20 other players in the game. There are going to be terrible cases on Day 1, it's a fact of life. But if there are 10 to choose from rather than 1, there's more chance that one of them will actually be right. So throw some dirt against the wall and see what sticks rather than just sitting back and accepting the inevitable.




EDIT: Crosspost w/ Rashan.

In the grand mafia tradition of strawmaning I prefer to throw Mud against a wall and see what sticks. Dirt is so dry. Mud has much better consistency. Lets take a look at what Mockra has posted so far. No content, no defense. He screams scum.

[Sorrit]

Tellan, on 14 March 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

Rashan, on 13 March 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

:yawn:

I can already tell I'm going to be lynched today, unless someone does something crazy.

If you are scum, pathetic attempt. If you are town, then fight goddamn you! Remember you're part of a team and if you're lynched, it hurts the whole team and not just your lazy ass. Yes, even on day 1. I would prefer to think you're silly scum - you do want to earn my respect don't you?

This post struck me as odd. Telling someone to "fight goddamn you!" when there isn't really much for them to say seems like fishing for an over-reaction.

Very good. You get a gold star. Congratulations. She was fishing for a reaction of some sort. That is the type of fishing that you can see on this Mafia fishing show. Well done to not only see that but to point it out. Much thanks

[Mockra]

Hello all!

Checking in, only 5 pages, a pleasant surprise, wil go have a reread.

[Rashan]

Atrahal is female?

[Karosis]

Sorrit, on 14 March 2012 - 01:01 AM, said:

Karosis, on 14 March 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

Rashan, on 14 March 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

And I fail to see how that makes me lazy. There's nothing to defend from, nothing I can say.

I'll make a case of my own if I find something that deserves a case. But I'm not going to create a terrible case on someone else just to save my own ass.

It's not to save your own ass, it's to provide information to the town. Shake a few trees and see what falls out. Otherwise there's no way people are going to be able to form opinions about the 20 other players in the game. There are going to be terrible cases on Day 1, it's a fact of life. But if there are 10 to choose from rather than 1, there's more chance that one of them will actually be right. So throw some dirt against the wall and see what sticks rather than just sitting back and accepting the inevitable.




EDIT: Crosspost w/ Rashan.

In the grand mafia tradition of strawmaning I prefer to throw Mud against a wall and see what sticks. Dirt is so dry. Mud has much better consistency. Lets take a look at what Mockra has posted so far. No content, no defense. He screams scum.

Good point about the mud. I'll have to update my mental notebook of cliches.


Your case on Mockra certainly gives people a lot to think about .

[Tellan]

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

Translation: "I'll criticise other people's attempts to highlight things, but I won't bother to actually contribute anything myself. In fact, I'm not sure why I even posted on day 1. I'll vote for whoever is going to get lynched at the end of the day, because frankly I can't be bothered about giving a shit today."

This seems a bit of a stretch. He didn't make his own case, but apparently giving an opinion on other people's thoughts doesn't count as contribution now?

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

So Omtose, why does this ping your radar? What could it mean in your opinion? A minister who's looking to be recruited? I can see that later in the game when it might look like town won't win, and some townies (scoundrel players) might be looking to switch to what they perceive to be a winning side, but on day 1 I don't see it.


I actually quite like the Karosis case - it's exactly the kind of thing I'd normally vote on on day 1 if I hadn't already made my own thing

I mean...What did he do that is any different from this?

[Tellan]

Sorrit, on 14 March 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

Tellan, on 14 March 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

Rashan, on 13 March 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

:yawn:

I can already tell I'm going to be lynched today, unless someone does something crazy.

If you are scum, pathetic attempt. If you are town, then fight goddamn you! Remember you're part of a team and if you're lynched, it hurts the whole team and not just your lazy ass. Yes, even on day 1. I would prefer to think you're silly scum - you do want to earn my respect don't you?

This post struck me as odd. Telling someone to "fight goddamn you!" when there isn't really much for them to say seems like fishing for an over-reaction.

Very good. You get a gold star. Congratulations. She was fishing for a reaction of some sort. That is the type of fishing that you can see on this Mafia fishing show. Well done to not only see that but to point it out. Much thanks

Vote Atrahal

For weak cases and content faking combined with this rather defensive post.

[Barghast]

Sorrit, on 13 March 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

Well personally I want to lynch a low poster. I have noticed that Mockra has yet to post. It is probably Venge. Lets lynch him before he has a chance to post.

Vote Mockra

Accusations based on Meta-game have been forbidden by both Imperial and divine edicts.

[Karosis]

Rashan, on 14 March 2012 - 12:47 AM, said:

Here's the post from OE that bothered me:

Olar Ethil, on 13 March 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

I've also been getting a certain vibe from Rashan, from almost their first post, there is just a scummy feeling to him. As far as discussing mechanics goes though it doesn't seem overly involved though, still, i'll defintly be paying attention there.

Karosis, on 13 March 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

Kalse, on 13 March 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

Karosis, on 13 March 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

Rashan, on 13 March 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Well I'm bored. Shall we lynch someone, then?

Oh dear, Fener is in this game. Goodbye, old enemy.

Vote Fener

Ah, good old Fener'eal disease. Not a bad pick.

Personally I want to lynch someone who is trying to keep a low profile. Make a change from the standard "lynch both sides of the first shouting match to appear" paradigm.

underlined made me chuckle/

Hard to lynch a low profiler on day one as its diffucult to determine who hasn't checked in/ the game started at a weird hour for them, between those laying low.

Ah, but there's a difference between people who are not posting much and people who are laying low. I mean, you're not going to lynch someone who has said nothing, but someone who posts but is non-committal...those you can go after.

What Karosis said here also made me uneasy. Going for someone who seems non-committal, not someone who hasn't posted but someone who is not making waves? It is day one. Day one generally does not see very many strong cases and it can be understandable then why people are non-committal, many are even though they vote a certain player on day one. I'm not saying non-commital players do not warrant attention but I think that they become more apparent and more likely to be scum or role later in the game. On day one it can be a combination of not much to comment on, weak cases and time constraints. I think going after that on day one makes it just as likely to hit town.

The first part is so damned noncommittal, but there are quite a few people who have posted like that today. So I'm willing to ignore it, I suppose.

What bothers me more is the strangeness of the last paragraph there. It doesn't make much sense, I could refute all of it if I wasn't so sure someone had done it already. It reads as scum, or someone who doesn't quite know what's going on. Either way I'd prefer them gone, as of right now.

Thank you for articulating your point of view - it is worth having. When I was having this discussion with OE, I kept feeling like they were trying to say "Please don't go after non-committal people, I'm one of those!". Could be scum trying to convince people to look away, I suppose.

[Rashan]

I just realized how terrible my sentence structuring has been in the past few posts. I need sleep, but I'll be around for at least 45 minutes until that's realistic.

[Karosis]

Right, I'm going to head to bed now. Will be back tomorrow to discuss things further.

[Barghast]

Rashan, on 14 March 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

Atrahal is female?

As is Karosis


TCG spoiler:

Spoiler

They are the real names of Telorast and Curdle

[Rashan]

Ah, details. How they escape me.

[Atrahal]

Tellan, on 14 March 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

Sorrit, on 14 March 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

Tellan, on 14 March 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

Rashan, on 13 March 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

:yawn:

I can already tell I'm going to be lynched today, unless someone does something crazy.

If you are scum, pathetic attempt. If you are town, then fight goddamn you! Remember you're part of a team and if you're lynched, it hurts the whole team and not just your lazy ass. Yes, even on day 1. I would prefer to think you're silly scum - you do want to earn my respect don't you?

This post struck me as odd. Telling someone to "fight goddamn you!" when there isn't really much for them to say seems like fishing for an over-reaction.

Very good. You get a gold star. Congratulations. She was fishing for a reaction of some sort. That is the type of fishing that you can see on this Mafia fishing show. Well done to not only see that but to point it out. Much thanks

Vote Atrahal

For weak cases and content faking combined with this rather defensive post.

Gee, I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that I've gone after your buddy Rashan, having already pointed out your little defense of him

[Atrahal]

Rashan, on 14 March 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

Atrahal is female?

Trust me, it was a bigger shock for me than it was for you.

[Barghast]

I have returned. I see that there are quite a few votes being flung around, with a number of likely suspects. I shan't list them, but suffice it to say, I am yet to see a case that would truly compel me.



as such, for now, I shall honour the venerable traditions of the Court and



vote Fener
Unless I should see some other example of seditious bahaviour, my vote shall remain here.

[Tellan]

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 01:24 AM, said:

Tellan, on 14 March 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

Sorrit, on 14 March 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

Tellan, on 14 March 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

Rashan, on 13 March 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

:yawn:

I can already tell I'm going to be lynched today, unless someone does something crazy.

If you are scum, pathetic attempt. If you are town, then fight goddamn you! Remember you're part of a team and if you're lynched, it hurts the whole team and not just your lazy ass. Yes, even on day 1. I would prefer to think you're silly scum - you do want to earn my respect don't you?

This post struck me as odd. Telling someone to "fight goddamn you!" when there isn't really much for them to say seems like fishing for an over-reaction.

Very good. You get a gold star. Congratulations. She was fishing for a reaction of some sort. That is the type of fishing that you can see on this Mafia fishing show. Well done to not only see that but to point it out. Much thanks

Vote Atrahal

For weak cases and content faking combined with this rather defensive post.

Gee, I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that I've gone after your buddy Rashan, having already pointed out your little defense of him

Obviously...Anyone disagreeing with you must be scum.