[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Tsundoku, on 04 January 2023 - 02:00 PM, said:

Surprise, surprise, a small cabal of frothing Trumptards are holding the GOP to ransom while choosing a Speaker for the House. Because he's "insufficiantly loyal to Trump". I thought they were supposed to be loyal to their country?

Nahhhhh, we all know they're loyal to their donors.

https://www.news.com...73a14dc6384edd2

------------------

They all need to be hung. By their tiny appendages.

It's about more than that... they want power. And the ability to derail the legislative process....

'Some of their demands have been easy, like ending remote voting, removing metal detectors from outside the House chamber[...] But the group is also pushing some tougher sells for McCarthy, like giving members the ability to offer any relevant amendment on appropriations bills, allowing amendment votes on any bill if there are a certain number of Republicans cosponsoring, and reinstating a rule that would allow members to call for a motion to remove the speaker at any time.

[...] if Republicans are already going to have trouble passing legislation with such a slim and unruly majority, then the difficulty would only be compounded if every member could offer amendments. A common tactic of the minority is offering politically tricky amendment votes on legislation to put members on the record, whether that be on abortion, Confederate statues, or any other politically thorny issue.

Another tactic is to get a vote on what's called a "poison pill" amendment, in which the amendment is adopted with a majority but then sinks the overall legislation.

[...]

What conservatives are actually fighting for is a radical change to how the House conducts its business—and it's a change that McCarthy has been resistant to make.

Ultimately, McCarthy's calculus may be that he'd rather be speaker under almost impossible conditions than not be speaker and preserve the ability of someone else to govern more effectively.'

Kevin McCarthy's Hostage Crisis Reaches Its Climax


Trump on Truth Social:

'VOTE FOR KEVIN, CLOSE THE DEAL, TAKE THE VICTORY, & WATCH CRAZY NANCY PELOSI FLY BACK HOME TO A VERY BROKEN CALIFORNIA, THE ONLY SPEAKER IN U.S. HISTORY TO HAVE LOST THE 'HOUSE' TWICE! [...] DO NOT TURN A GREAT TRIUMPH INTO A GIANT & EMBARRASSING DEFEAT. IT'S TIME TO CELEBRATE, YOU DESERVE IT. [...] If Republicans are going to fight, we ought to be fighting Mitch McConnell and his domineering, China loving BOSS, I mean wife, Coco Chow. The harm they have done to the Republican Party is incalculable. Today, he couldn't be elected 'Dog Catcher' in Kentucky (Sadly, he only won because of my Endorsement, went up 21 points - SORRY!) [...] TAKE THE VICTORY AND RUN!!!'

Trump Begs House Republicans to Back Kevin McCarthy's Speakership Bid

#VeryStableGenius

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 04 January 2023 - 02:26 PM

[Lady Bliss]

Azath Vitr (D, on 04 January 2023 - 02:25 PM, said:

Tsundoku, on 04 January 2023 - 02:00 PM, said:

Surprise, surprise, a small cabal of frothing Trumptards are holding the GOP to ransom while choosing a Speaker for the House. Because he's "insufficiantly loyal to Trump". I thought they were supposed to be loyal to their country?

Nahhhhh, we all know they're loyal to their donors.

https://www.news.com...73a14dc6384edd2

------------------

They all need to be hung. By their tiny appendages.

It's about more than that... they want power. And the ability to derail the legislative process....

'Some of their demands have been easy, like ending remote voting, removing metal detectors from outside the House chamber[...] But the group is also pushing some tougher sells for McCarthy, like giving members the ability to offer any relevant amendment on appropriations bills, allowing amendment votes on any bill if there are a certain number of Republicans cosponsoring, and reinstating a rule that would allow members to call for a motion to remove the speaker at any time.

[...] if Republicans are already going to have trouble passing legislation with such a slim and unruly majority, then the difficulty would only be compounded if every member could offer amendments. A common tactic of the minority is offering politically tricky amendment votes on legislation to put members on the record, whether that be on abortion, Confederate statues, or any other politically thorny issue.

Another tactic is to get a vote on what's called a "poison pill" amendment, in which the amendment is adopted with a majority but then sinks the overall legislation.

[...]

What conservatives are actually fighting for is a radical change to how the House conducts its business—and it's a change that McCarthy has been resistant to make.

Ultimately, McCarthy's calculus may be that he'd rather be speaker under almost impossible conditions than not be speaker and preserve the ability of someone else to govern more effectively.'

Kevin McCarthy's Hostage Crisis Reaches Its Climax


Trump on Truth Social:

'VOTE FOR KEVIN, CLOSE THE DEAL, TAKE THE VICTORY, & WATCH CRAZY NANCY PELOSI FLY BACK HOME TO A VERY BROKEN CALIFORNIA, THE ONLY SPEAKER IN U.S. HISTORY TO HAVE LOST THE 'HOUSE' TWICE! [...] DO NOT TURN A GREAT TRIUMPH INTO A GIANT & EMBARRASSING DEFEAT. IT'S TIME TO CELEBRATE, YOU DESERVE IT. [...] If Republicans are going to fight, we ought to be fighting Mitch McConnell and his domineering, China loving BOSS, I mean wife, Coco Chow. The harm they have done to the Republican Party is incalculable. Today, he couldn't be elected 'Dog Catcher' in Kentucky (Sadly, he only won because of my Endorsement, went up 21 points - SORRY!) [...] TAKE THE VICTORY AND RUN!!!'

Trump Begs House Republicans to Back Kevin McCarthy's Speakership Bid

#VeryStableGenius

Just read Trump’s tweet muse on a news article… damn that is scary. I hope this sort of shit doesn’t actually have any power…

[LinearPhilosopher]

So question for y'all

I believe it was here, but someone, eons ago posted a link to an article about the origins of American politics. I cannot for the life of me find it and it's is driving me bonkers because I want to re-read this article.

Specifically, how many of the divisions or cultural differences are explained through the different groups of settlers (the dutch, the english, the french, the acadians, the puritans etc...) Does this ring a bell for anyone here?

This post has been edited by LinearPhilosopher: 05 January 2023 - 12:03 AM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

LinearPhilosopher, on 05 January 2023 - 12:03 AM, said:

So question for y'all

I believe it was here, but someone, eons ago posted a link to an article about the origins of American politics. I cannot for the life of me find it and it's is driving me bonkers because I want to re-read this article.

Specifically, how many of the divisions or cultural differences are explained through the different groups of settlers (the dutch, the english, the french, the acadians, the puritans etc...) Does this ring a bell for anyone here?

Perhaps you're thinking of American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures in North America? It's a book that's been widely reported on (and reviewed...).

https://www.business...d-states-2015-7

[LinearPhilosopher]

Azath Vitr (D, on 05 January 2023 - 12:22 AM, said:

LinearPhilosopher, on 05 January 2023 - 12:03 AM, said:

So question for y'all

I believe it was here, but someone, eons ago posted a link to an article about the origins of American politics. I cannot for the life of me find it and it's is driving me bonkers because I want to re-read this article.

Specifically, how many of the divisions or cultural differences are explained through the different groups of settlers (the dutch, the english, the french, the acadians, the puritans etc...) Does this ring a bell for anyone here?

Perhaps you're thinking of American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures in North America? It's a book that's been widely reported on (and reviewed...).

https://www.business...d-states-2015-7

You are a true gentleman and a scholar!

[QuickTidal]

Watching McCarthy not get the Speaker vote SEVEN times so far due to the shitty even further right MAGA-group that he had a hand in creating...is delicious, popcorn worthy even.

[Primateus]

QuickTidal, on 05 January 2023 - 05:38 PM, said:

Watching McCarthy not get the Speaker vote SEVEN times so far due to the shitty even further right MAGA-group that he had a hand in creating...is delicious, popcorn worthy even.

It's a sad fucking state of affairs that one of the two major parties in the wealthiest and most powerful nation in the world can't get their act together to choose a leader. It's pathetic, really, and anyone who thinks otherwise really needs their heads examined.

Also, it's a state of affairs that is far, far, far more amusing than it has any right to be.

Is it Schadenfreude? I don't know, I only know I'm laughing at their ineptitude.

[Tiste Simeon]

Yeah the ultra right group seem to think they're done kind of courageous rebels but I'm reality they're pathetic whiny children who are making the Republicans even more a laughing stock than they already were.

[QuickTidal]

In a perfect world the Moderate Rs get annoyed and 12 of them flip to Jeffries just to get things moving.

For what it's worth, Hakeem Jeffries has won the most votes overall in 7 consecutive votes...if this were a first past the post kinda thing VS 50% +1 then he'd already have been Speaker on vote 1.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'McCarthy faces the same 20 holdouts as he did yesterday, with vote totals almost identical. The only change is that Matt Gaetz voted for [...] Trump'

(1) Kevin McCarthy Loses 7th House Vote for Speaker: Watch Live - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Legally, they can nominate anyone for speaker---no requirement that they be a member of the house. And that person would then be 2nd in the line of succession (after the vice president).

[Cause]

QuickTidal, on 05 January 2023 - 06:01 PM, said:

In a perfect world the Moderate Rs get annoyed and 12 of them flip to Jeffries just to get things moving.

For what it's worth, Hakeem Jeffries has won the most votes overall in 7 consecutive votes...if this were a first past the post kinda thing VS 50% +1 then he'd already have been Speaker on vote 1.

I both can’t imagine that happening and also half expect it to happen.

They look like fools already but how do the 20 vote for McCarthy and not look like even worse fools at this point. Their are no concessions left to give.

[Gwynn ap Nudd]

I don't expect even moderate Repubs would switch to voting for Jeffries.

I am not sure why no Democrat has yet nominated a moderate Republican (the name I have heard tossed around is Fred Upton - the speaker does not need to be a member of the house). Not that I expect they would get elected (unless it goes another twenty rounds of voting), but it would give moderate Republicans leverage to force back against some of the changes being demanded by the lunatic fringe. Right now they have none.

I fully expect Kevin McCarthy will be a bad speaker regardless of the situation and disagree with almost all of his views, but a Kevin McCarthy shackled and beholden to the Tea Party/MAGA asshats will be much worse than otherwise. The only thing I can think is that Dems believe the complete disfunction of congress under the latter situation will lead to electoral gains in 2024 that outweigh the likely pain of government shutdowns and other assorted BS in the meantime. Which may be plausible since the 2024 senate map is so bad for Democrats.

This post has been edited by Gwynn ap Nudd: 06 January 2023 - 04:06 AM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'it’s likely McCarthy has agreed to cede a remarkable amount of power, on top of promising to support lowering defense spending.

[...] the Never Kevin faction had some fun with their continued chaos. [...] shouted he was voting for “Kevin,” before taking a long pause to vote for “Kevin Hern,” who Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-CO) again nominated.'

Kevin McCarthy Flips 14 of His GOP Foes. The Rest Are Digging In.

Wonder if McCarthy will still follow through on his plan of reading every word of the Constitution outloud before getting around to any actual legislating... of course after that they're going to devote themselves to 'investigating' Hunter Biden.

A few of the Never Kevin votes flipped but it seems unlikely he'll get all but four (which is what he needs). Assuming he eventually quits the question then is whether the Only Kevin group will be more accomodating... one of its most vocal members is Eyepatch Fascist Daniel Crenshaw.

Since Democrats failed to raise the debt ceiling during the lame-duck session we're going to have to rely on the House to do that before the US defaults and screws over the world economy... Democrats wouldn't need that many Republicans but if the eventual speaker sticks with the rules changes McCarthy is conceding to---which would make it much easier to derail legislation---it could take a long time, though a simple majority can vote to change the rules....

[Cause]

Azath Vitr (D, on 06 January 2023 - 07:21 PM, said:

Wonder if McCarthy will still follow through on his plan of reading every word of the Constitution outloud before getting around to any actual legislating... of course after that they're going to devote themselves to 'investigating' Hunter Biden.

Its 18 pages long. Would take an hour. They make it seem like the genius of the founders cant be interpreted by us mere mortals but if most people ever bothered to read it it would take them a lunch break.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Cause, on 06 January 2023 - 08:03 PM, said:

Azath Vitr (D, on 06 January 2023 - 07:21 PM, said:

Wonder if McCarthy will still follow through on his plan of reading every word of the Constitution outloud before getting around to any actual legislating... of course after that they're going to devote themselves to 'investigating' Hunter Biden.

Its 18 pages long. Would take an hour. They make it seem like the genius of the founders cant be interpreted by us mere mortals but if most people ever bothered to read it it would take them a lunch break.

7591 words / (183 average words outloud / minute) ≈ 41.48 minutes for regular person, maybe a day for a congressperson... for this congress who knows.

Didn't realize it's so short; I'd suppose the whole thing was never assigned in school because much of it isn't all that interesting, AP American History or graduate level early American History of Forgetting be damned. Technically the pocket constitution the Republicans like to wave around is 192 pages.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Well they did it (for now---though IDK what will happen if Republicans fail to pass the rules package McCarthy agreed to, since several of them have already said they'll vote against it---though if current rules remain in place they would apparently then require 'a majority of House Republicans' (not of House members?) for a 'motion to vacate' to trigger a vote on removing the Speaker)).

What is a 'motion to vacate' -- a key sticking point in GOP speaker battle? - ABC News

But at what cost?...

'McCarthy [pledged] not to raise the debt limit without major spending reductions — including efforts to reduce spending on so-called mandatory programs, which include Social Security and Medicare — in a deal that brought many holdouts into his camp.

A speaker who violated that deal could risk being overthrown by the Republican caucus in the House. But Mr. Biden and [... the] Senate have vowed to fight those cuts [...] could mean a prolonged standoff that goes on so long the government runs out of money to pay its bills.

[...]

Hurtling toward a deadline for raising the debt limit would sow chaos in financial markets, including for stocks and Treasury bonds[...]

“This does not feel like a false alarm,” [...]

[...] House speaker refusing to put a debt-limit increase to a vote without steep spending cuts.

[...] One long-shot idea: a so-called discharge petition signed by a majority of the House to force a vote on a bill. Such a move would presumably rely almost entirely on Democratic votes with a few Republicans joining in. But that outcome is far from guaranteed; it would require extensive coordination by both sides and expose defecting Republicans to punishment and primary challenges.

Still, Representative Brian Fitzpatrick, Republican of Pennsylvania, embraced the possibility of such a compromise'

Kevin McCarthy’s Speaker Drama Raises New Fears on Debt Limit - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'When pollsters ask GOP voters about multiple presidential candidates, Trump is well ahead. But in a mock head-to-head matchup with DeSantis, it’s the Florida governor who emerges as the winner. That suggests supporters of single-digit Republicans [...] don’t want to see Trump get the nod again. If none of these candidates throw their hats in the ring—and DeSantis had the “Anyone But Trump” vote to himself—he could prevail.

But likely the opposite will happen. [...] the weaker Trump looks, the more it encourages GOP aspirants to run in 2024…but more candidates actually increases the likelihood that Trump ends up as the nominee.

[...] Republican primary process is [...] largely a winner-take-all system. Delegates are not distributed proportionally (as is the case with Democrats). [...]

[...] there’s another dynamic from seven years ago that also benefited Trump: Republican candidates ganged up on each other and left him largely untouched. [...]

That same process could get a reprise in 2024.

[...] The also-rans frequently try to tear down the candidate who is in second and ignore the one in first.

[...] attacking DeSantis is a sure-fire way to curry favor with Trump, which could pay long-term dividends.

[...] the political incentive for nearly every Republican running is to attack DeSantis and not Trump. '

Pundits Might Be Done With Trump, but GOP Voters Aren’t

OTOH DeSantis could also reward them... but popular support for DeSantis is likely to wilt once voters get to know him better and Trump kicks his insult comic schtick back into full gear....

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'Tucker Carlson Suggests the U.S. Should Send an "Armed Force" to "Liberate Canada"

[...] to invade Canada and "liberate" the country from "authoritarian" leader Justin Trudeau.

"And I mean it," he insisted [...] just in case viewers thought he was joking.

[...] "Like, why don't we liberate it? We're spending all this money to liberate Ukraine from the Russians, why are we not sending an armed force north to liberate Canada from Trudeau?"'

Tucker Carlson Suggests the U.S. Should Send an 'Armed Force' to 'Liberate Canada'

Leonard Cohen is so scared he wrote a song about it:





'U.S. Air Force General Warns of Impending War with China over Taiwan

"[...] My gut tells me [sic] will fight in 2025," a four-star General and the head of the Air Mobility Command[...] known for incendiary speech, particularly about China [...] "Lethality matters most," [...] "When you can kill your enemy, every part of your life is better. Your food tastes better. Your marriage is stronger."'

U.S. Air Force General Warns of Impending War with China over Taiwan

... and Marjorie Taylor Greene might be Trump's running mate (for vice president):

'"She sees herself on the short list for Trump's VP," [said ...]

"This is no shrinking violet, she's ambitious — she's not shy about that, nor should she be," [...]

[...] Greene's "whole vision" is to be the No. 2 in the White House.

[...] has also secured spots on the House Oversight and Homeland Security committees '

Marjorie Taylor Greene Wants to Be Trump's 2024 VP: Report

[Cause]

Seen a few interviews with Kevin Mcarthy. Man is tied into knots trying to justify the i sensory of his party right now and his support of George santos, who ‘was elected by his district to represent them’.

He has just given up on answering questions and just gives prepared soliloquy’s about anything else.

[QuickTidal]

How in the sweet jumped up jiggety fuck does Texas freeze one winter really badly like 2 years ago...have an election since then to referendum the people who let it happen, then inexplicably re-elect the same fucking people and then freeze again this year because absolutely nothing was learned from last time or fixed since then...

Real question: How fucking stupid are Texans....????