[Obdigore]

Cause, on 12 November 2018 - 12:41 PM, said:

I came across some interesting information this weekend. The UK is 87% white. This got me wondering how so many people can be so worried that immigration is destroying the country. It does strike me as odd to see some extreme Muslims for example say they want sharia law in britian (I remember some guy saying this on BBC) but with 87% of the UK still British and not all immigrants being so extreme its a storm in a tea cup.

This lead me to the US demographics page. Their is certainly an undercurrent of white nationalism and anti-immigration going at the polls in the US. The former is also going on in the US and Europe and the latter seemingly everywhere. The US is still 72% white but the US has a seemingly weird definition where anyone from Europe, north Africa and the middle east is white. Hispanics are also considered an ethnicity and not a race and so you can identify as white Hispanic or black Hispanic. 14% of the US is Hispanic. Apparently Hispanics will be the dominant ethnicity in the US by 2048. The US is famed as a melting pot but I never realized how strong that was. I can see why for those extreme white nationalists, white power, stormfront, Klu klux Klansmen this is such a big deal and I can now understand why the subtlety in the trump campaign is playing so well to such a big base, even the marginal are getting in on the act. I expect as the demographics continue to shift this will become a much bigger problem in America and a much more polarizing force. As the demographics continue to shift I wouldn't be surprised to see even mainstream candidates drop the pretense. It seems like an issue that needs to be addressed asap.

Its only an issue for racists. If the Dems run a candidate that gets their base going, the Republicans literally can't get enough votes to win, even today. It's why the Dem's biggest issue for president right now is they are going to try and run an old white person again.

[Gorefest]

Well, there's a few things there. Firstly, I think those were figures from 6-7 years ago, although I imagine not that much will have changed in that time. Secondly, when you say white, do you mean white British or general Caucasian? Because it is not just Muslims or people of different ethnic backgrounds that get caught in the migration debate. If anything, migration in relation to Brexit mostly revolves around 'white' immigrants from poorer EU areas (Eastern and Southern Europe, e.g. Poland, Romania, Slovakia). Thirdly, that 13% 'non-white' is not spread evenly across the country but will be focused in pockets, not seldom in more 'deprived' areas because that's were it is still affordable for economic (i.e. low /no income migrants) to live.

But overall, yes, a lot of it is perception and as is the case for most sources of racism worldwide, it is mostly about ignorance. Often the loudest complaints about 'foreigners stealing our jobs' are from areas with a high degree of elderly white males.

[Cause]

Obdigore, on 12 November 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:

Cause, on 12 November 2018 - 12:41 PM, said:

I came across some interesting information this weekend. The UK is 87% white. This got me wondering how so many people can be so worried that immigration is destroying the country. It does strike me as odd to see some extreme Muslims for example say they want sharia law in britian (I remember some guy saying this on BBC) but with 87% of the UK still British and not all immigrants being so extreme its a storm in a tea cup.

This lead me to the US demographics page. Their is certainly an undercurrent of white nationalism and anti-immigration going at the polls in the US. The former is also going on in the US and Europe and the latter seemingly everywhere. The US is still 72% white but the US has a seemingly weird definition where anyone from Europe, north Africa and the middle east is white. Hispanics are also considered an ethnicity and not a race and so you can identify as white Hispanic or black Hispanic. 14% of the US is Hispanic. Apparently Hispanics will be the dominant ethnicity in the US by 2048. The US is famed as a melting pot but I never realized how strong that was. I can see why for those extreme white nationalists, white power, stormfront, Klu klux Klansmen this is such a big deal and I can now understand why the subtlety in the trump campaign is playing so well to such a big base, even the marginal are getting in on the act. I expect as the demographics continue to shift this will become a much bigger problem in America and a much more polarizing force. As the demographics continue to shift I wouldn't be surprised to see even mainstream candidates drop the pretense. It seems like an issue that needs to be addressed asap.

Its only an issue for racists. If the Dems run a candidate that gets their base going, the Republicans literally can't get enough votes to win, even today. It's why the Dem's biggest issue for president right now is they are going to try and run an old white person again.

well the point I was making is that I think youd be supirsed how many marginal white votes will be radicalized as the population demographics continue to shift. The historical population of America (yes I realized how loaded that is) will become a minority within their own country. If make america great again is code for make america white again as many claim whats going to happen as the white population continues to shrink as a percentage. Part of Americas democracy problems are as mentioned up thread is that the senate is a from of minority rule, the electoral college is a form of minority view etc. These two aspects will clash havily and the polarization of american politics will become more extreme. Thats how I would read the data

[worry]

I'm a little ambivalent on the ignorance-as-root-cause thing...it's the truth in some cases for sure, but it's the reverse (ignorance derives from racism) in others to an uncomfortable degree people don't like to think about, and there are plenty more still who aren't ignorant at all. They know exactly what they're doing. The people voting Republican after seeing thousands of brown kids ripped from their parents and/or locked in cages can't plead ignorance, for instance. So while I get where you're coming from -- and it's not a happy thought to think that no matter how hard you argue, no matter how much evidence you have, a whole lot of people aren't going to stop or change their minds -- but 'ignorance' can sometimes be used as a euphemism for something much worse.


This isn't like a critique of your post, more like an alternate take. And it's an America-focused one for sure, but ultimately I'm just saying it's not just one way, which I imagine you'd probably agree with anyway.

On to happier topics. Christmas is coming up!

[Tiste Simeon]

I don't believe that's true. Nope sorry I can't cope with that being an actual thing.

Though the bear being the National animal of Russia just makes that better...

[Macros]

Can not be real

[Cause]

That's parody

[Cause]

https://www.snopes.c...ck/trumpy-bear/

Fox must not have understood the tone???

[Tsundoku]

On the bright side, yet another way to safely spot fuckwits from a distance.

Unless they have him hanging from a noose.

[Nicodimas]

I have so many thoughts on her, but going to sit on my hands and just ask what's your thoughts on this?

https://www.yahoo.co...-135522664.html

A) Corporation's getting kickbacks

Her thought-process:

Quote

Asked about the $32.6 trillion price tag recently placed on Sanders’ Medicare-for-all plan, Ocasio-Cortez has fallen back on the savings that would result from eliminating out-of-pocket cost to the consumer at the point of care.

“People often say, like, how are you going to pay for it and I find the question so puzzling because ‘How do you pay for something that’s more affordable? How do you pay for cheaper rent?’ You just pay for it,” she said during an interview last week with Jorge Ramos. “We’re paying more now.”

Quote

U.S. health care spending increased 4.3 percent to reach $3.3 trillion, or $10,348 per person in 2016.

https://www.cms.gov/.../highlights.pdf

C) Does Corporate America displace working class jobs as she is suggesting in this particular instance?

Sidebar: I wonder how this will pan out when Amazon gets anti-trusted in about oh 10 years or so and these headquarters each become there own firm. /purespeculation

[Vengeance]

Nicodimas, on 13 November 2018 - 06:42 PM, said:

I have so many thoughts on her, but going to sit on my hands and just ask what's your thoughts on this?

https://www.yahoo.co...-135522664.html

A) Corporation's getting kickbacks

Her thought-process:

Quote

Asked about the $32.6 trillion price tag recently placed on Sanders’ Medicare-for-all plan, Ocasio-Cortez has fallen back on the savings that would result from eliminating out-of-pocket cost to the consumer at the point of care.

“People often say, like, how are you going to pay for it and I find the question so puzzling because ‘How do you pay for something that’s more affordable? How do you pay for cheaper rent?’ You just pay for it,” she said during an interview last week with Jorge Ramos. “We’re paying more now.”

Quote

U.S. health care spending increased 4.3 percent to reach $3.3 trillion, or $10,348 per person in 2016.

https://www.cms.gov/.../highlights.pdf

C) Does Corporate America displace working class jobs as she is suggesting in this particular instance?

Sidebar: I wonder how this will pan out when Amazon gets anti-trusted in about oh 10 years or so and these headquarters each become there own firm. /purespeculation

How do you sort your Bosses love of Patriotism with his lack of support for our Troops.

https://www.gq.com/s...-and-the-troops


https://www.huffingt...urce=reddit.com


Oh and this is what happens to a good guy with a gun when he is black.

https://www.salon.co...guy-with-a-gun/

What about that?

Or how about using a doctored video to remove access for a reporter that asked hard questions.

https://www.vox.com/...-doctored-video



If you spent anytime in the health care industry you would know that it is completely broken. A single payer system is the most affordable. We are going to spend 32 billion on health care one way or another in the next 10 years. The question is will it be 32 trillion or 34 trillion.

[worry]

a) Her questions are good ones in terms of what the company is offering the community, and more so what the community (ie the government) will demand of the company. The kickbacks thing is so on point...the past couple years of Amazon auditioning locations and all these cities and states bending backwards, doing clown routines for them has been disgusting to witness.
There's always going to be a contingent of 'jobs are jobs' people. In my town people were so mad when a planned Walmart Supercenter fell through, but they're the same people complaining that the town is getting too city-fied, and all the local non-chains are closing, and every shopping center has like half the buildings empty. And wouldn't you know it, they blame the poorest people in town rather than the richest.

The health care thing is a no-brainer.
c) I think so. I mean San Francisco is the poster boy for this phenomenon. I guess tech industry megalibertarianism is much easier when you ignore the well-being of most people. Gentrification chews up enough at the level of neighborhood. When it's brought to megacorp scale, you risk losing whole cities. There's so much self delusion coupled with so much money in tech, it's scary.

[worry]

I do like the optimism that we'll still have antitrust laws in 10 years.

[Nicodimas]

Vengeance, on 13 November 2018 - 07:28 PM, said:

Nicodimas, on 13 November 2018 - 06:42 PM, said:

How do you sort your Bosses love of Patriotism with his lack of support for our Troops.

https://www.gq.com/s...-and-the-troops


https://www.huffingt...urce=reddit.com


Oh and this is what happens to a good guy with a gun when he is black.

https://www.salon.co...guy-with-a-gun/

What about that?

Or how about using a doctored video to remove access for a reporter that asked hard questions.

https://www.vox.com/...-doctored-video



If you spent anytime in the health care industry you would know that it is completely broken. A single payer system is the most affordable. We are going to spend 32 billion on health care one way or another in the next 10 years. The question is will it be 32 trillion or 34 trillion.

Well he's not really my BOSS.

@ Vengy: off topic points.
1) No troops want a president that's soft on them. A good leader is firm and doesn't let them get away with crap.
2) The man died a hero and hopefully the halls of Valhalla welcome him in.
3) I think after the white house pointing out Acosta shouldn't have press passes-- he shouldn't. Politicians know what's best for all parties involved. /shrug

I liked your thought process on spending, if its already going to be 30+ trillion dollars, why even bother putting in the effort of reducing costs. Valid point.

@ Worry:
Will have to work on your great reply. I actually really like her and her optimistic attitude and idealism is the future of the modern democrat party. < I do also agree with the some other folks in keeping a timeline calculator that shows how fast she becomes a millionaire too> More later...

[Tiste Simeon]

Umm can we just back up a second. You just said that politicians know what's best for all parties involved. What had happened in the past four of years that makes you think that statement is in any way true?

[Slow Ben]

Nicodimas, on 13 November 2018 - 10:11 PM, said:

1) No troops want a president that's soft on them. A good leader is firm and doesn't let them get away with crap.

3) I think after the white house pointing out Acosta shouldn't have press passes-- he shouldn't. Politicians know what's best for all parties involved. /shrug

1) Bullshit response that in no way answers his question.

3) I really think you are just the ultimate troll. Theres no way an actual sane person would state that.

[Morgoth]

I read an article not too long ago about families being split apart by the whole Trump cult of personality thing. A husband or a son become enamored with the whole Trump internet sphere, get dragged in and become completely alienated from the rest of their family. Like all cults, the trump cult teaches you words and phrases that are used only within the cult and makes it much harder for you to communicate outside of it. Cuck, soyboy, NPC, SJW, virtue signaling. That whole collection of nonsense.

Watching Nico the last year feels very much like that. He's spiraling into a cult and have become entirely incapable of communicating with anyone outside of it.

[Aptorian]

There certainly is that smug swagger about the way he posts you recognize from r/Donald users.

[Primateus]

I love how NPC has become a right-wing term for anyone they deem incapable of independent thought. Except, of course themselves.

Such a double-edged sword that term, NPC.

In other news...

https://theweek.com/...ently-illegally


It's very convenient how you can the misdeeds republicans are doing by what they're accusing democrats of.

[Cause]

Nicodimas, on 13 November 2018 - 10:11 PM, said:

1) No troops want a president that's soft on them. A good leader is firm and doesn't let them get away with crap.

What kind of crap statement is this? There is a difference between your platoon captain not being your buddy who plays cards with you on weekends and your captain issuing you only 5 bullets because winners don't miss and telling you if you die he wont write your family a letter because he doesn't write letters for losers. Is this a completely outrageous analogy? Yes but somehow it seems to fit with your statement.

Morgoth, on 14 November 2018 - 08:03 AM, said:

I read an article not too long ago about families being split apart by the whole Trump cult of personality thing. A husband or a son become enamored with the whole Trump internet sphere, get dragged in and become completely alienated from the rest of their family. Like all cults, the trump cult teaches you words and phrases that are used only within the cult and makes it much harder for you to communicate outside of it. Cuck, soyboy, NPC, SJW, virtue signaling. That whole collection of nonsense. Watching Nico the last year feels very much like that. He's spiraling into a cult and have become entirely incapable of communicating with anyone outside of it.

Whats a soyboy? Sounds creepily sexual