Seduce Goose, on 16 August 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:
The flags and the statues are more than symbols of slavery or racism. They also have cultural, historical significance. Erasing your history does not unmake it. While I'm not sure Trump actually thought that far, he had a point when he began to ask "What about Lincoln? What about Jefferson?" etc. What happens when all those Southern figures have been erased and suppressed? Who's next? There is a risk of eroding your own history and your own culture if you go down that path.
I prefer the idea of owning that imagery and telling the full story, rather than tearing down statues that have stood for a century.
There are no statues of Hitler or the rest of the Third Reich in Germany anywhere. And I believe Third Reich paraphernalia is outlawed as well.
But as stated in the video, no one forgets what happened just because no statues stand of the villains of the piece. That's a straw man. No one is about to forget Confederate side of the Civil War because the symbology adopted and utilized by them is not on prominent display.
Seduce Goose, on 16 August 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:
Do you heal the divide by stigmatizing the notion of southern heritage? I don't know if it would help but I think it's misplaced that this divide is only about black and white people.
You think the divide is healable by "flooding"? What nonsense. Again, I'll use Germany as an example. Do you think that they need statues or nazi flags to heal any divides there? I don't think so, and anyone suggesting such isn't looking at it with a proper pair of eyes.
Seduce Goose, on 16 August 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:
Better shape? in terms of PR, sure. But I've read plenty of stories about the anti fascist type of groups to know that these people are just as likely to be as fanatical and violent as the people they fight.
PR? No, in terms go human godamned decency.
Seduce Goose, on 16 August 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:
I think there's a simpler reason why Trump might have said there are bad people on both sides. Most likely either Bannon was in his ear or he just had a briefing on violent groups in America and the security adviser mentioned bad things that Antifa did.
This is not an excuse. Sorry. It's not. You hold the highest office in the land, you have the wherewithal to learn about these things...and not just believe a doctored Antifa flyer that was photoshopped.
Seduce Goose, on 16 August 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:
Yeah. The only thing I think is easy about these statements is the black and white imagery of political ideology. The Nazis were a political party. If you wanted to have a future in Germany, if you wanted to protect yourself or ever have a chance of promotion. Then you'd be a Nazi too.
My god, wtf? A political party that committed genocide is evil. Full stop. Like it IS black and white. There is no other viable ground to stand on here man.
Seduce Goose, on 16 August 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:
Like some clever person mentioned last week. There are no Nazis in America. There are white supremacists. They are not the same as their European namesakes.
Are they not? That's funny, they spout ACTUAL phases used by Nazi's, they utilize the symbology of those namesakes, and use the salute that the leader of that party used. I dunno where you are on that, but that's a fucking Nazi. Did you even watch the VICE doc above? It's pretty clear what they are aping.
Seduce Goose, on 16 August 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:
Again, it's not excusable.
Seduce Goose, on 16 August 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:
Sure. He had to go out and try to fix his mess yesterday. But I don't think there is a difference between the two speeches.
He either doesn't understand or doesn't care about what he is saying. He just says words. He has the best words. Sometimes he calls things great. Some times he calls things bad. That's all.
If you want to make this an argument for him not being fit to lead his country, I am all there with you. He's a disgrace. But what he did was not a rubber stamp for the Nazis. That was the narrative the media ran with.
Like I said, it's VERY easy to denounce Nazism because it's card-carrying evil.
Look at what Colbert said. "If someone asked me if I have sexual fantasies about the sexy elves in Zelda: Ocarina of Time, and I just turned and walked away. that would be a VERY telling position" That Trump did the same when asked to properly disavow them...is very telling.
Seduce Goose, on 16 August 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:
Ignorance comes in many forms. It's often married to arrogance.
If you looked at Trump during the second conference, I think he looked angry and frustrated. I think Trump was mad that people did not understand his great words. I think he kept saying the same things because he thought they were the right things to say, not understanding that he was saying the opposite of what people wanted to hear. I think he perceived the questions and the accussations as an unfair attack on him by the leftist media.
Again, I don't think he supports Nazis (except for when it might help him win votes or what ever). I think he's just too full of himself.
And yet...
"When the last tree has fallen, and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no." ~Aurora
“Someone will always try to sell you despair, just so they don't feel alone.” ~Ursula Vernon