[worry]

Not a shock really, but Republican Congressmen are indeed expanding their stock portfolios to include health insurance companies, and are already reaping rewards.
https://theintercept...-moves-forward/

[Lady Bliss]

Wouldn't it be funny if Putin gives Trump a big hug and tells him that "it has been too long since they have last seen each other!" In greeting tomorrow? It would be the easiest way for him to stir more chaos in the US.

[worry]

Wow, in the Dem primary for Paul Ryan's seat, it was looking like it was gonna be a big business candidate (David Yankovich) vs. a union lefty (Randy Bryce) with all the negative 2016 connotations coming back into play. But in an amazing turn of events, Yankovich pulled his candidacy to support Bryce against Ryan. The big fight is yet to come, of course, and I'm not getting my hope all the way up against the Ryan machine, but this is such a lovely, heartening turn of events nonetheless. There are few things in all of American politics that would be more satisfying than booting Paul Ryan out on his butt.

[worry]

Also, since Trump gave that unsubtle Nazi speech in Poland yesterday, it looks like Sarah Palin wants to hop on that bandwagon: https://twitter.com/...271897605185536

[worry]

https://www.nytimes....r-manafort.html
Two weeks after Donald J. Trump clinched the Republican presidential nomination last year, his eldest son arranged a meeting at Trump Tower in Manhattan with a Russian lawyer who has connections to the Kremlin, according to confidential government records described to The New York Times.

The previously undisclosed meeting was also attended by Mr. Trump’s campaign chairman at the time, Paul J. Manafort, as well as the president’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, according to interviews and the documents, which were outlined by people familiar with them.

...

Representatives of Donald J. Trump Jr. and Mr. Kushner confirmed the meeting after The Times approached them with information about it. In a statement, Donald Jr described the meeting as primarily about an adoption program. The statement did not address whether the presidential campaign was discussed.

[Tsundoku]

worry, on 07 July 2017 - 09:22 PM, said:

Also, since Trump gave that unsubtle Nazi speech in Poland yesterday, it looks like Sarah Palin wants to hop on that bandwagon: https://twitter.com/...271897605185536

I just read that speech, but I'm obviously not picking up what you're putting down. Is he comparing Russia to Nazis? I can sort of see how that comparison could be drawn but I don't know if I'd go that far. He's not that subtle, and I'm pretty sure his speechwriters aren't ballsy enough to white-ant him like that.

And what's this "14 words" thing?

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 09 July 2017 - 08:41 AM

[EmperorMagus]

Tsundoku, on 09 July 2017 - 08:41 AM, said:

worry, on 07 July 2017 - 09:22 PM, said:

Also, since Trump gave that unsubtle Nazi speech in Poland yesterday, it looks like Sarah Palin wants to hop on that bandwagon: https://twitter.com/...271897605185536

I just read that speech, but I'm obviously not picking up what you're putting down. Is he comparing Russia to Nazis? I can sort of see how that comparison could be drawn but I don't know if I'd go that far. He's not that subtle, and I'm pretty sure his speechwriters aren't ballsy enough to white-ant him like that.

And what's this "14 words" thing?

"Do we have the confidence in our values to defend them at any cost? "

You see, what he means by our values is 'white values' and what he means by 'at any cost' is "segregation and putting these uppity coloured people in their proper place".

That's my read at least.

This post has been edited by EmperorMagus: 09 July 2017 - 12:43 PM

[worry]

Here's a thing on the 14 Words reference: https://www.adl.org/...ymbols/14-words

Here's a breakdown of Trump's speech: https://www.theatlan...-poland/532866/

[Tiste Simeon]

14 Words is a common phrase uttered by white supremacists all over the world started by some dude in the seventies (David someone or other) which are "We must secure the existence of our people & a future 4 white children."

I dunno if Trump said those words and what Sarah Palin has to do with it cos I've not read through everything yet.

Edit: Worry's link explains it better...

This post has been edited by Tiste Simeon: 09 July 2017 - 09:30 PM

[Tsundoku]

Hmmm ... having re-read it yeah I can see it a bit more now. I do think though it might be a case of if you look hard enough you'll find anything/drawing a longer bow than necessary.

But then again I might be totally off and it's as the Atlantic writer says. Would this then be an example of 'dog whistling'? I'm in my mid-forties and I can honestly say that while I had heard that term once or twice over the years I had never really been moved to find out what it meant until more recently when it started cropping up all the time. from around the start of 2016 I'd say.

Having lived through the last years of the Cold War and watched the Wall come down live on TV, for me East and West still have more of that connotation than anything religious or racial. West = first(ish) world economy, democracy, minimal (screamingly) obvious corruption etc. So I tend to include Japan - or even South Korea - for example in the "West" politically and economically. It's "East" geographically, racially and socially. And more "East" the further back you go in history. If that makes sense.

That 14 words stuff just seems weird to me. Never heard of it till now. Still has no meaning for me whatsoever.

To be honest, when I first saw the phrase in this thread my first instinct was to be annoyed that someone must have let Nicholas Sparks near the computer again, despite all warnings and evidence to the contrary.

EDIT: Just got the giggles thinking of the movie trailer and voiceover. "Coming this Fall, from the creator of "The Notebook". In a world of turmoil comes a story of Love, and fighting for it. Against brown people."

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 09 July 2017 - 10:03 PM

[Malankazooie]

Palin sent out a tweet: "Trump Gives Speech to the People of Poland, Says 14 Words That Leave Americans Stunned".

I'm not sure if she is smart enough to make the connection, so I'm erring on the side of it being coincidence, but I'm probably wrong. I think it is a stretch though to try and equate her tweet with a symbol of the neo nazi movement, that not a lot of people even know about (as is evidenced by the confusion on display here about it).

[worry]

The speech was written by Stephen Miller, who I've mentioned before a few times in this thread. And frankly while he's on the same wavelength as Bannon, he's much dumber (and I'm not one who thinks Bannon is an evil genius, just someone who's crafty enough to get his message across). And Miller is Jewish, so when I call it a Nazi speech I'm being a little conflationary, but Miller IS an open white supremacist and white nationalist, the speech makes fairly unsubtle references to Western "triumph" and "will", and his references to the "South" and "East" of Europe regard Muslims, Asians, and black Africans -- not Russia, though I can see now why that would be your first instinct.

[worry]

Oh, lots of people know what the 14 Words are, just like they know 88 = HH = Heil Hitler. Tsundoku isn't American though so the 14 Words thing is probably more foreign than 88, while in America they tend to go hand in hand. David Lane is/was one of the most influantial American figures for modern American white supremacist movements, and there's lots of crossover between his ideas and that of like the Aryan Brotherhood.

[Malankazooie]

I dunno, I'm American and I didn't know what those meant until I kept seeing them tattooed on actors in Son of Anarchy (or maybe it was a neo nazi documentary). Anyway, I had to google them to find out what they were, and this was only recently.

Oh, I kind remember now, I believe it was one of them mug shot sites and there was a skinhead that had an "8" tattooed over each eye brow and 14 words tattooed on his inner lip or something. Crazy stuff.

This post has been edited by Malankazooie: 09 July 2017 - 10:34 PM

[worry]

I assure you I did not want to wake up a couple days ago to hear news of the US President making a West vs. Everyone Else speech written by a white nationalist, followed by a former major party candidate for Vice President making an even less subtle appeal to neo-Nazis.

[Silencer]

Tsundoku, on 09 July 2017 - 09:49 PM, said:

Hmmm ... having re-read it yeah I can see it a bit more now. I do think though it might be a case of if you look hard enough you'll find anything/drawing a longer bow than necessary.

But then again I might be totally off and it's as the Atlantic writer says. Would this then be an example of 'dog whistling'? I'm in my mid-forties and I can honestly say that while I had heard that term once or twice over the years I had never really been moved to find out what it meant until more recently when it started cropping up all the time. from around the start of 2016 I'd say.

Having lived through the last years of the Cold War and watched the Wall come down live on TV, for me East and West still have more of that connotation than anything religious or racial. West = first(ish) world economy, democracy, minimal (screamingly) obvious corruption etc. So I tend to include Japan - or even South Korea - for example in the "West" politically and economically. It's "East" geographically, racially and socially. And more "East" the further back you go in history. If that makes sense.

That 14 words stuff just seems weird to me. Never heard of it till now. Still has no meaning for me whatsoever.

To be honest, when I first saw the phrase in this thread my first instinct was to be annoyed that someone must have let Nicholas Sparks near the computer again, despite all warnings and evidence to the contrary.

EDIT: Just got the giggles thinking of the movie trailer and voiceover. "Coming this Fall, from the creator of "The Notebook". In a world of turmoil comes a story of Love, and fighting for it. Against brown people."

Yeah, the social disconnect is quite interesting. Like you, I'd never heard of the 14 words thing (though I did know about 88), and similarly there was a bit going around the other day about one of the Trump's kids new haircuts being a clearly Nazi/Hitler youth cut. And I found this interesting, because aside from the fact that I don't follow hairstyles, one of my best friends (who is half-Indian in descent) has this haircut. And at least according to him, it's just generally popular right now. Neither of us had any context for it being in any way related to the Nazis, though a bit of digging shows that this is the common interpretation of it (at least from America's point of view) and that it was in fact popular amongst Hitler Youth. So the more you know.

That being said, I do feel like both that haircut and the speech thing are quite long bows to draw. Largely because I feel like there is a difference between calling Trump out on his bullshit, and Godwin'ing everything he and his cronies do - it's a sure-fire way to turn people off to the actual important substance of the debate to just cry "Nazi!" every time there is any possible link. When it's blatant, like his refusal to distance himself from the former head of the KKK, it's different, but when it's not really obvious I think it just makes the polarization get worse, and possibly moves a few people who are just barely on that side of the fence further away.

[Cause]

worry, on 09 July 2017 - 10:16 PM, said:

The speech was written by Stephen Miller, who I've mentioned before a few times in this thread. And frankly while he's on the same wavelength as Bannon, he's much dumber (and I'm not one who thinks Bannon is an evil genius, just someone who's crafty enough to get his message across). And Miller is Jewish, so when I call it a Nazi speech I'm being a little conflationary, but Miller IS an open white supremacist and white nationalist, the speech makes fairly unsubtle references to Western "triumph" and "will", and his references to the "South" and "East" of Europe regard Muslims, Asians, and black Africans -- not Russia, though I can see now why that would be your first instinct.

A Jewish white supremacist? Cringe worthy.

He will be in for a shock if he gets his wish.

[Tsundoku]

Apologies for the humour here, but I couldn't help thinking of this:

http://www.dailymoti...m/video/x3a3f0f

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 10 July 2017 - 03:43 PM

[worry]

I don't think it's Godwin-ing when you understand it's why Stephen Miller got into politics. It's why Steve Bannon got into politics. It's why Kris Kobach got into politcs. I don't know that it's the reason Jeff Sessions got into politics, but it's a defining element of his worldview. This stuff isn't a stretch, it isn't subtle, and to a certain degree it isn't even meant to be.

For instance, recently it's coming out that Trump's immigration policy has been shaped in part by Ann Coulter (she helped devise the white paper on it and then later praised it w/o revealing she worked on it), specifically hired by Steve Bannon. https://twitter.com/...231970405974021

But she only co-authored it, so who was the moderating voice to keep Coulter's vile rhetoric in check? Sam Nunberg, this guy: http://www.businessi...ok-posts-2015-7

And what were his qualifications? Well for one, he was director of the Middle East Forum, whose founding mission is to promote "American interests in the Middle East and protects Western values from Middle Eastern threats." http://www.meforum.org/about.php

But as the Business Insider article says, the Trump campaign considered him a low level advisory hire, his history of racism shouldn't reflect badly on the Trump campaign. Let's not even consider the fact that he was tasked (again, with Ann Coulter) to write one of the most important papers for the campaign on DJT's foremost issue, immigration. What's any of that got to do with the speech in Warsaw??

Well guess who brought Stephen Miller into the Trump fold in the first place: http://www.thedailyb...ld-trumps-words
"During the Trump presidential campaign, then-Breitbart head Steve Bannon—soon to become a senior counselor to the president—introduced Miller to Sam Nunberg, a Trump aide.
Miller’s work opposing the Gang of Eight immigration-reform package impressed Nunberg, who says he first mentioned Miller’s name to Trump. Then-campaign manager Corey Lewandowski would later hire Miller, Politico reported."

There's no need for Godwin's Law. This stuff isn't a byproduct, it isn't a small faction, it isn't imaginary, it isn't exaggeration, it's not political correctness run amok, it isn't the other side doing a smear campaign: these guys are racists. They can paint white supremacy as "Western values" all they want, it's the same stuff.

[worry]

The, uh, emails...


https://www.nytimes....-candidacy.html