[HoosierDaddy]

John McCain needs to retire. He has lost it.

[Vengeance]

HoosierDaddy, on 08 June 2017 - 04:34 PM, said:

John McCain needs to retire. He has lost it.

He is seriously the most retarded person on the committee right now. Why doesn't he just ask about the Iran - Contra scandal and how that has any bearing on the emails.

[QuickTidal]

A question seems to have arisen of "Is there a white house taping system"...audio or otherwise.

There was indeed one in place during Kennedy's time as he was very untrustworthy of the people who came to the WH, and caught out a few guys who would talk shit about him when he was out the of the room. Whether that system or an updated one is STILL in place...is up for debate. But I honestly don't see them NOT employing one. Seems like common sense.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 08 June 2017 - 04:48 PM

[QuickTidal]

R's and Trump supporters doubling down on the idea that "I hope" can't be construed as obstruction....and some dude found a bunch of instances in which the courts have affirmed it to indeed BE obstruction. So, precedent at the very least.

But yeah, I think the best example I saw of "hope" being used in such a way..."That's a nice store you have there, I hope nothing bad happens to it."

The bit the don't get is that "hope" is not the operative part of the "I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go." statement to focus on anyways. It's the "let this go" part...spoken to an FBI director, in private, by a sitting president. If that's not a "command", I dunno what is. Comey said he understood an expression by Donald Trump of “hope” that he could shelve an investigation of Michael Flynn as a direction to do so.

Also, can I just say that I love this bit of this mornings testimony: Comey said Trump’s direction reminded him of Henry II ordering the murder of Becket: “Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?” A-mazing.

[Aptorian]

Had the Comey hearing running in the background earlier. Sure were a lot of things Comey couldn't discuss in an open hearing and a lot of questions that were basically just repeating the same query again and again.

Also McCain looked and sounded like he was suffering from Alzheimer or some kind of aphasia.

[QuickTidal]

Seduce Goose, on 08 June 2017 - 06:51 PM, said:

Had the Comey hearing running in the background earlier. Sure were a lot of things Comey couldn't discuss in an open hearing and a lot of questions that were basically just repeating the same query again and again.

Yes, it sounds like the Closed Session is going to get a lot more out onto the table.

Also, I keep coming back to the whole defence of Trump with his supporters claiming his words and statements to Comey were innocuous...like he was just chatting in general and not directing anything...Right? I mean that's what the Republican supporters are floating, yes? If that was the case, why did the room get cleared first? That's not exactly something you need to do if the things you are about to say are just blasé innocuous things.

So Trump's lawyer is now claiming that Comey's version of events is lies, and that Trump never asked for loyalty, or said some of the things Comey has stated he did. I'm not sure what happens now. Do they demand tapes? I dunno how nay of this is proved or not.

[worry]

To that I would say, if you find yourself consistently being taken the "wrong way" by a wide swath of people, do a little self-analysis on whether you've been getting your point across in the most precise, unambiguous way.

[worry]

Yah, I couldn't stand making long posts on a phone either. The thing about evoking "opposite sides" though is you've never seemed that far to one side anyway. Like maybe on the board's spectrum you're to the right of most, but you've always seemed moderate and open to people and you've said you've voted for candidates of both major parties historically.

So why now is everyone else on the "opposite" side?

We all know you voted for Trump largely because you dislike HRC so much. You held your nose and did it (others had to hold their nose for HRC). Maybe you thought during the campaign he was playing up the bad stuff to get/keep votes, that he would become "more presidential" once he won, less prone to the extremist stuff, what have you. Lots of people thought that, and it turned out to be wrong. He's an increasingly senile con man with mafioso inclinations and a high tolerance for neo-Nazi rhetoric and policy. That you voted for him doesn't mean you have to go down with the ship though. It's okay to recognize he's one of the worst, dumbest, most corrupt people to become president -- and that we're living in this reality with him -- and you don't have to pretend otherwise. You don't have to rationalize every awful thing he does for the next four years. It's okay to say 2016 was an awful election with two bad choices, and your choice turned out worse than you expected. I don't consider you (or a lot of Trump voters) the "opposite side", but the more someone defends Trump now, in June 2017 rather than November 2016, the clearer it is that they're denying reality in order to do so. And it's actually that continued denial of reality (more than politics) that will make someone feel farther away, like an opposite.

[amphibian]

This isn't scoops of ice cream. This is millions of people's lives and ability to have a decent life, both in and outside the USA.

This is access to healthcare, which you have huge problems with and needs strengthening, not abolition. This is not fucking over nearly every public school in the country. This is not cratering every bit of good will and ties the international community has with us.

It's not godsdamned ice cream being talked about here.

[HoosierDaddy]

Let's step back a bit. We all come from a good place.

BK is willing to at least listen, which many others aren't. That's a good thing.

Worry had a nice point above about the divisiveness.

Yeah, Trump is a shit-head moron, but we have to deal with it for another 12 months at the best, 36 at the worst.

No impeachment is going to happen.

[QuickTidal]

Okay, so someone in the know, correct me if I'm wrong but...

The former FBI director goes in front of a congressional committee, and during sworn testimony, on national television called the president a liar. And then called his bluff about the "tapes" and said "Yes, please release them!" So now, the WH either has the tapes and are hiding something or the president was trying to intimidate the witness...no?

[Gorefest]

I have stopped relying on logic and common sense when it comes to US politics.

Same goes for British politics, by the way. I wonder if someone spiked the Atlantic Ocean.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 09 June 2017 - 12:56 PM

[Obdigore]

QuickTidal, on 09 June 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

Okay, so someone in the know, correct me if I'm wrong but...

The former FBI director goes in front of a congressional committee, and during sworn testimony, on national television called the president a liar. And then called his bluff about the "tapes" and said "Yes, please release them!" So now, the WH either has the tapes and are hiding something or the president was trying to intimidate the witness...no?

That is correct.

However, it's also up to the current congress (GOP controlled) to actually vote for the impeachment. That isn't going to happen unless it starts looking like they'll all be voted out of office. Meanwhile, while Comey was testifying in front of the Senate about what a useless fuck-up Trump is, the US House passed legislation to remove the Dodd-Frank act, which was put in place by a bi-partisan group after the turmoil of the 2008 crash, to prevent such a thing from happening again.

http://www.independe...n-a7780206.html

Trump is an un-entertaining Zaphod Beeblebrox. He's a giant shit-show to carry the headlines while the GOP does all their unpopular to 90% of the country shit. Again, he will not be removed until either some non-republicans are in control of congress, OR he becomes a massive threat to the current GOP congressional members re-elections, which is what is happening in GA right now. The absolute best we can hope for is another 3 months of shit-flavored 'trickle down' from Congress, then they impeach Trump to try to protect themselves for the 2018 race, where ALL House seats are up for re-election. While Gerrymandering has made it much more difficult for anyone not part of the old, white, and either really poor or really rich party to win a majority of the seats, as the demographics change that gerrymandering can actually be a problem for them, as once they lose one district, they start to lose them all.

That said, the Senate has many more not safe Democratic Seats up for grabs than Republican, and while the Senate has shown they will do away with the filibuster whenever they want, having a super-majority in both houses would be devastating for this country.

My big question is if it's proven that Trump and Pence and Sessions and Manafort and whoever are all on the Russian payroll, does that mean his SCOTUS pick will resign? Or are we stuck with that pick forever? Also, when are we going to write in a general election clause if shit has happened that cause the US to doubt the outcome of the current election?

[Tiste Simeon]

Trump has said he will go under oath in court re Comey. Provided he does his usual lie and bluster act can he be impeached for perjury?

[worry]

One of the impeachment charges against Bill Clinton was perjury, so yes. "High crimes and misdemeanors" is pretty vague, so it almost comes down to the interpretation of the congress of that period. Obdigore is right about the likelihood of DJT being impeached by this House.

[HoosierDaddy]

We are a fucking train-wreck of a country. Soap Opera time with Trump to lie and lie and lie.

Good lord.

[worry]

I'd like to see Sessions lie under oath (again) for sure.

On another legal note, apparently DJT's private lawyer -- not White House counsel -- has been telling staffers/aides that they don't need to hire lawyers of their own.
https://www.nytimes....c-kasowitz.html

Seems like a conflict of interest and perhaps even unethical behavior to me.

[Tiste Simeon]

worry, on 11 June 2017 - 08:31 PM, said:

Seems like a conflict of interest and perhaps even unethical behavior to me.

Sounds like an apt way to describe the entire presidency thus far...

This post has been edited by Tiste Simeon: 11 June 2017 - 09:29 PM

[QuickTidal]

Sounds like some of the people who support Trump are now trying to get him to oust Mueller from the Special Investigation...which correct me if I'm wrong, would be essentially worse than firing Comey as far as basically "admittance of guilt"?

Also, Maryland and DC are suing Trump for violating Constitutional oath with regards to his business interests. Good. Who knows if it will do anything, but more people who CAN stand up to his administration from the annals of power and legal standings...need to do so. So bravo to these places for doing it. Sounds like they get to request his tax returns...and the glut of what Trumps lawyers would have to do would be fighting to keep those tax records private...I wonder which side would win out?

[Cause]

QuickTidal, on 13 June 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

Sounds like some of the people who support Trump are now trying to get him to oust Mueller from the Special Investigation...which correct me if I'm wrong, would be essentially worse than firing Comey as far as basically "admittance of guilt"?

Also, Maryland and DC are suing Trump for violating Constitutional oath with regards to his business interests. Good. Who knows if it will do anything, but more people who CAN stand up to his administration from the annals of power and legal standings...need to do so. So bravo to these places for doing it. Sounds like they get to request his tax returns...and the glut of what Trumps lawyers would have to do would be fighting to keep those tax records private...I wonder which side would win out?

Lets hope he does it then