[Terez]

amphibian, on 19 December 2019 - 05:42 PM, said:

There's a lot of history here that gets lost in the reductive arguments about someone being more left or Pelosi being a woman. Looking at it all creates a ton of "FDR and Rayburn were about 200% more left than Pelosi or Obama and that was in the 1930s and 1940s, plus they were more competent in the business of winning and governing" consternation in me.

Union busting killed two birds with one stone for the GOP. They unshackled the power of capital and decimated the organizational structure of the Democratic Party in one blow. And they were able gain the necessary public sentiment to do it partly because of the way organized crime had infiltrated labor unions and the party apparatus.

[amphibian]

Terez, on 19 December 2019 - 10:46 PM, said:

amphibian, on 19 December 2019 - 05:42 PM, said:

There's a lot of history here that gets lost in the reductive arguments about someone being more left or Pelosi being a woman. Looking at it all creates a ton of "FDR and Rayburn were about 200% more left than Pelosi or Obama and that was in the 1930s and 1940s, plus they were more competent in the business of winning and governing" consternation in me.

Union busting killed two birds with one stone for the GOP. They unshackled the power of capital and decimated the organizational structure of the Democratic Party in one blow. And they were able gain the necessary public sentiment to do it partly because of the way organized crime had infiltrated labor unions and the party apparatus.

You're right.

I also think that a ton of organizing momentum was lost after things like the 1953 steel strike that Truman ended up nationalizing the industry over and getting the win for the union. The collectives used to be able to get wins like that and then successive Congresses and presidential administrations turned labor boards and other enforcement agencies into wimps. We didn't pass the organizational skills and the institutional memory of the Colorado mining massacres, the Pinkertons murdering people, and the violent repression of labor movements that features black and brown people from the 40s, 50s, and 60s onto the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

Much was lost then and we're paying for it now - and that wealth is going upwards to the mega rich.

[Terez]

I put this account on my politics list a while back because they were ripping on Vic Mignogna stans and a lot of the observing lawyers were retweeting it.



Reich is more of an economist than anything else. He's definitely not a lawyer, much less a constitutional lawyer.

[Cause]

https://www.cnn.com/...oint/index.html

This man is the president of the United States!

His rhetorical genius includes ‘the world is tiny compared to the universe’

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Cause, on 23 December 2019 - 11:22 PM, said:

https://www.cnn.com/...oint/index.html

This man is the president of the United States!

His rhetorical genius includes 'the world is tiny compared to the universe'

'It’s not clear what evidence he has that windmills create more “fumes” through manufacturing compared to anything else, though studies have found that wind energy has a particularly small carbon footprint compared to other methods of generating electricity. Trump’s suggestion that the U.S. doesn’t benefit from windmill manufacturing is also misleading – according to the Department of Energy, the wind energy industry employs tens of thousands of people in the U.S. and wind energy technicians is one of the fastest growing jobs in the nation.

Trump has previously claimed that windmills depress property values by 65 percent, though several academic studies found that this isn’t the case. The Washington Post further notes that wind turbines do kill hundreds of thousands of birds per year, but fossil fuel plants and the kinds of glass-covered skyscrapers that Trump is fond of building are separately responsible for far more bird deaths. Also, the maximum sentence for killing a bald eagle in California is two years, not ten. All that being said, the president’s claim that “the world is tiny compared to the universe” checks out.'

https://slate.com/ne...fact-check.html

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Trump hates windmills because he loves birds so much, obviously:

'Trump's Relaxed Environmental Rules Allow Industry To Kill Birds With Impunity

Many penalties discouraging organisations from killing birds or destroying their habitats are being rolled back under the Trump administration and complying with some conservation measures is now optional, a report says. [...] birds have been killed and nests destroyed by oil spills, construction crews and chemical contamination with no response from the federal government. Habitat loss and pesticide exposure have brought on widespread bird-species declines; the number of adult breeding birds in the United States and Canada has plummeted by 2.9 billion since 1970.

https://www.thedaily...punity?ref=home

'A Trump Policy "Clarification" All but Ends Punishment for Bird Deaths'

https://www.nytimes....ird-deaths.html

But windmills kill bald eagles! Trump loves bald eagles:

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'Man Who Sought Ban On Feeding The Homeless Will Lead U.S. Homeless Agency'

https://mavenroundta...khsTHwNwkQHmxkc

'Trump’s looming cruel war on homeless people is America’s next big human-rights crisis'

https://www.inquirer...y-20200102.html

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 02 January 2020 - 11:59 PM

[Primateus]

Azath Vitr (D, on 02 January 2020 - 11:57 PM, said:

'Man Who Sought Ban On Feeding The Homeless Will Lead U.S. Homeless Agency'

https://mavenroundta...khsTHwNwkQHmxkc

'Trump’s looming cruel war on homeless people is America’s next big human-rights crisis'

https://www.inquirer...y-20200102.html

"Well, like, just get a house and buy a job!"

This really isn't that surprising.

[Tsundoku]

Primateus, on 04 January 2020 - 11:44 AM, said:

Azath Vitr (D, on 02 January 2020 - 11:57 PM, said:

'Man Who Sought Ban On Feeding The Homeless Will Lead U.S. Homeless Agency'

https://mavenroundta...khsTHwNwkQHmxkc

'Trump’s looming cruel war on homeless people is America’s next big human-rights crisis'

https://www.inquirer...y-20200102.html

"Well, like, just get a house and buy a job!"

This really isn't that surprising.

It's right up there with "Get your parents to help you buy a house" (said by one of our conservative politicians) or "Be born rich" (the dumbed-down translation of some truly tone-deaf job advice from a woman who inherited billions in mining leases) for financial advice.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 04 January 2020 - 11:47 AM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'In the chaotic days leading to the death of Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani, Iran's most powerful commander, top American military officials put the option of killing him — which they viewed as the most extreme response to recent Iranian-led violence in Iraq — on the menu they presented to President Trump.

They didn't think he would take it. In the wars waged since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Pentagon officials have often offered improbable options to presidents to make other possibilities appear more palatable.

After initially rejecting the Suleimani option on Dec. 28 and authorizing airstrikes on an Iranian-backed Shia militia group instead, a few days later Mr. Trump watched, fuming, as television reports showed Iranian-backed attacks on the American Embassy in Baghdad, according to Defense Department and administration officials.

By late Thursday, the president had gone for the extreme option. Top Pentagon officials were stunned.

Mr. Trump made the decision, senior officials said on Saturday, despite disputes in the administration about the significance of what some officials said was a new stream of intelligence that warned of threats to American embassies[...] official described the intelligence as thin and said that General Suleimani's attack was not imminent because of communications the United States had between Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, and General Suleimani showing that the ayatollah had not yet approved any plans by the general for an attack. The ayatollah, according to the communications, had asked General Suleimani to come to Tehran for further discussions at least a week before his death.'

https://www.nytimes....pgtype=Homepage

'“This would be the equivalent of Iran assassinating Petreus or Mattis, I argued. No, he responded, this is much bigger than that.”
“Most Americans won’t understand the gravity of this,” tweeted journalist Rania Khalek. “Qasem Soleimani is head of the Iranian IRGC’s elite Quds Force, which conducts operations outside of Iran in both Iraq and Syria. He was credited with helping turn the tide in both countries against Al-Qaeda and ISIS.”
“This is very serious,” Khalek added. “The US essentially declared war on Iran by assassinating its most revered military figure in Iraq. And by also killing the head of the PMF, the US created more enemies in Iraq. There will be regional retaliation. It’s unlikely it can be prevented.”'

https://medium.com/@...r-6db1d1f9c060?

Trump's twitter:

'Iran has been nothing but problems for many years. Let this serve as a WARNING that if Iran strikes any Americans, or American assets, we have.....
....targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture'

He wants to blow up cultural sites. Mosques? Places of pilgrimage?...

'those targets, and Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD. The USA wants no more threats!'

'If they attack again, which I would strongly advise them not to do, we will hit them harder than they have ever been hit before!'

'The United States just spent Two Trillion Dollars on Military Equipment. We are the biggest and by far the BEST in the World! If Iran attacks an American Base, or any American, we will be sending some of that brand new beautiful equipment their way...and without hesitation!'

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 05 January 2020 - 05:57 AM

[Terez]

Waiting on EmperorMagus to chime in. I see he just posted last week. Stealing this from another thread:

EmperorMagus, on 16 September 2019 - 07:34 AM, said:

Aptorian, on 16 September 2019 - 05:43 AM, said:

What's up with the attacks on Saudi Arabia this weekend?

https://www.cnn.com/...intl/index.html

I've been listening and reading about this yesterday and today but I'm not sure what to make of it.

Like, what does Iran gain from this serious an escalation? This is skirting on WW3 scenarios.

Moreover what's up with the footage? Really small precision impacts or explosions that poke relatively small holes in the oil tanks? What kind of weapon does that?

The conspiracy theorist in me says that Saudi Arabia did this themselves.

The Iranians probably think that Trump is too chicken to do anything about this (based on his previous sabre-rattling and last minute backing off). And SA is already doing all it can short of outright war to cause damage in Iran, including funding terrorists (or oppressed minorities, depending on your POV). The Iranian government believes that a war is being waged against them by the US, Israel, and SA. They feel their existence is under threat and they want to make this war too expensive for the other side. Their main leverage is oil, so that's what they go after (both with the tankers and now this).

I find it fascinating that four years of brown people being slaughtered by their ally SA in Yemen doesn't concern the Americans, but god forbid the world oil supply be threatened. That's definitely the cue to cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.

It's a few months old, and a few steps in the process removed, but in the absence of Present Magus, I will take it.

[EmperorMagus]

I'm personally angry & offended at the assassination. Pretty much every Iranian I have spoken to feels violated that the a member of the Iranian military was attacked like this. Though I admit that there are the Monarchy supporters who are happy at what happened.

Pragmatically, I realize that it will be to the Islamic Republic's advantage in the long run. They have a great martyr who has both the nationalist groups and the religious groups behind him; they have far more national unity and support than they had after their suppression of the most recent protests; and Iraq is trying to eject American troops, which is what Soleimani had been trying to achieve for years (victory in death, I guess).

Soleimani was pretty magnificent at extending Iran's influence outside Iranian borders, and the IRGC doesn't have anyone of his caliber to replace him. But his deputy (Brigadier General Gha'ani, who has been appointed to his post) is also a hard hitter, known as "Sardar-e-Shamat" (Commandant of Syria) among. My guess is that Gha'ani is more than competent enough to keep what Soleimani started going.

In terms of retribution, I'd say that Iranians (both the people and the government) love vengeance and want nothing more than getting it. But the Supreme Leader is, if nothing else, a shrewd politician. He will not approve anything that will endanger the existence of the Islamic Republic and I think that includes any retribution that is likely to lead to war with the United States. I would expect Iran-supported militia attacks (insurgency style) against US troops in Iraq and Syria as likely, direct military action against US forces possible but unlikely, and assassinations a very unlikely response.

At the end of the day, the Iranians know they are not on a level playing field with the Americans.

As a bonus, you can see Khamenei leading a public prayer for Soleimani in the link below. For context, the "prayer of the dead" is a mandatory Shia rite and part of the complex ceremonies preceding a burial. Soleimani's burial rites have been the largest in modern Iranian history, taking place in five Iranian cities (and two in Iraq) and drawing more participants than the ceremony for the founder of the Islamic Republic. People are coming onto the streets in every city, big or small, in mourning. Can you say martyr?

http://twitter.com/m...066779858833413

I honestly cannot tell whether his half sob is genuine or merely playing the crowd.

[Maark Abbott]

Obama will start a war to get re-elected. Bad leadership!

[Terez]

I kinda want to go back to 2016 in this thread and find my worst Trump takes. I know I had some bad ones in this thread. I think I argued once that maybe (I think it was always "maybe") he would be a harmless dope in office, maybe even do some accidental good by not being the most diligent conservative. Mind you, I never argued that anyone should vote for him. I was just trying to game out what a Trump presidency might look like and also trying to give him the benefit of the doubt since there was always a reason he was thought to be so Unlikely and we discussed those reasons endlessly.

He is the most unpresidential President of the recording age by far and he has been stubbornly disastrous at every turn, just because roughly half the country doesn't like him and this offends him greatly. We all knew it was going to be bad but this is somehow much worse than I ever imagined. The worse it gets, the harder the conservatives dig in their heels. Nearly every Republican with a shred of power expressed contempt for Trump at some point before he took office, or before they went to work for him. They know what he is, but their voters don't, so they pretend. The utter lack of spine is infuriating. He could be gone right now.

Trump doing anything aggressive in the Land of Islam is red meat for his base and it beyond that it has no value for him (maybe for his donors). Incidentally, I listened to the audiobook for Maddow's Blowout recently and it's super good and important. (I read probably half of the book in text because I am impatient but I listened to it while driving back from my mom's after Thanksgiving.) What makes the book so good is that she takes a common "Middle East" narrative and makes a whole book about it while barely mentioning any countries in that region. She focuses on drilling in Africa and the Arctic, offshore drilling and fracking in the United States, organized crime in Russia and Ukraine. It's a really refreshing take on the corrupting influence of energy worldwide, the double-edged crisis of corruption and climate.

I don't even know what to say about the holy war aspect of it. For American Christians, it all has a sense of inevitability to it; everyone knows the world will end with a big showdown in Israel and then the Christians will live happily ever after. 41% of Americans believed in 2010 that Jesus would probably or definitely return to Earth by the year 2050. I wish I was making this up.

[Tiste Simeon]

OK so I'm a Christian. I believe in the Bible, I pray, I go to church etc.

And this horrifies me as much as you. This whole end times thing is bonkers because even if you believe in a purely literal interpretation of the book of Revelation, Jesus himself has said no-one knows when it's going to happen. So why focus on that part of it so heavily?

Also why not focus on his actual words about looking after the poor and most needy among you? Where is his compassion that he shared? Why all the hate?

Let me tell you who he was angry with. The rich and powerful leaders who cared more about money and being seen to be more holy than others and claimed that by taking more they were doing God's work. Not immigrants. Heck the good Samaritan parable is all about how ancient tribal and nationalistic differences don't matter, it's what's in your heart that counts.

The Republicans are basically the Pharisees.

[Terez]

Now you've gone and offended the Jews. (I mean that seriously. In my experience, religious Jews really hate the use of "Pharisee" as a pejorative.)

I was a pretty serious Christian for half my life and I was definitely raised in the End Times cult.

[Tiste Simeon]

Hah there was no offence meant there. Though I guess I can see why. Apologies if anyone disliked what I was saying but can you also see my point with it? If these Trump fanatics think they're Christians how do they measure up literally everything Jesus said with everything Trump is?

[Gorefest]

It's organised religion. You can make it measure up with anything you want it to measure up with. Each to their own, and I think it is great when people find peace and purpose in faith on a personal level. But as soon as religion is practised in a ritualised/organised fashion, no matter which religion you pick, it tends to get fucked up and used for dodgy goals.

And this whole end times thing is just cause-effect bullshit. If I predict that you are going to die on the 15th of April and on that day I shoot you in the head, does that make me a prophet? Let's just screw up the planet because it is scheduled to be screwed up in X years' time anyway? These people are insane.

[Tsundoku]

@Simmo
Because they're the most egregious cherry-pickers and venal, cruel, greedy, narcissistic, self-deluding hypocrites I've ever heard of.
Not a single one of them would ever come within cooee of The Good Place, they'd all definitely be headed for The Bad Place.

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This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 06 January 2020 - 12:38 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

Gorefest, on 06 January 2020 - 12:35 PM, said:

It's organised religion. You can make it measure up with anything you want it to measure up with. Each to their own, and I think it is great when people find peace and purpose in faith on a personal level. But as soon as religion is practised in a ritualised/organised fashion, no matter which religion you pick, it tends to get fucked up and used for dodgy goals.

And this whole end times thing is just cause-effect bullshit. If I predict that you are going to die on the 15th of April and on that day I shoot you in the head, does that make me a prophet? Let's just screw up the planet because it is scheduled to be screwed up in X years' time anyway? These people are insane.

True. And it has nothing to do with Jesus, the centre of their alleged faith.