[Silencer]

Virgin of High House Bachelor, on 02 February 2019 - 05:02 PM, said:

The economy has been mostly good to great(I know the term before contributes in the beginning) despite a little hiccup this past month its back and higher then ever. Unemployment has been in record lows iirc but going up on paper now with this last shutdown. Our veterans are atleast getting better care then the past. This still needs to improve tremendously. I’m onboard with peace through strength. Im onboard with NATO nations needing to pay their share. I’m onboard with border security. I could take or leave the wall. Fuck Maduro. Atleast some progress with NoKo has been made though I know most here will dispute that(and everything else).

We are still here breathing.

I haven’t said I would re vote. I just said we ll see. If I’m shunned for a political choice then so be it. Myself I can I get along with anyone despite who they vote for. If you can’t then at this point(I say this point because I have lost some friendships I was truly honored to have just turn around and begin jabbing which was hurtful at the time) I just say deuces.

So, in other words, nothing that Trump has had any hand in, then?

See, this is what gets me. You're assuming that Worry is calling you a racist, but that would only be true if you vote Trump in 2020, and yet here you're saying that might not happen. So which is it? Are you voting Trump in 2020, or did Worry not call you a racist?

More importantly, the economy is not good to great. It's actually teetering on the edge of collapse. More and more factories are closing, companies that said they'd keep or grow jobs are moving them overseas instead, household debt remains incredibly high, inequality is even worse than it was in '08, and the share market...well, let's just say that the sharemarket has been climbing pretty steadily since 2008 and that's more to do with lack of proper regulations than anything Trump is doing. The tax cuts that went to corporations are, of course, helping the "economy" - but I mean, if you want to vote for someone who takes money from you and gives it to people who already have 100 billion in their pocket, then perhaps Trump is a good choice?
Don't know what part of veterans getting treated better you're referring to, unless you mean them not getting paid because Trump is holding the government ransom over his insane wall. You think NATO nations haven't been contributing their fair share? Stop spouting propaganda. America contributes more than others because your military budget is more than the next twelve largest spenders combined. That's not on NATO, that's on America overspending on defense and being obliged to pitch in accordingly. North Korea has been appeased, not progressed.

I don't know what to say, BK. If you still think that Trump does anything but lie and take credit for the work of others while only ever blaming someone else for failures, I can see how you might think voting for him is something other than racism. But come on, man. There is a mountain of video footage at this point showing him saying one thing six months ago, and another today, just to try and look like he's strong, or correct, or smart. Never mind the environmental protections being rolled back that were put in place for the safety of people, and the option of still having a planet around for your kids, never mind the forcible separation of kids from families at the border, leading to thousands of missing kids, never mind the defense of racists/rapists/rich con artists....do you, today, believe Donald J. Trump 1) speaks the truth and 2) wants what is best for you and the country at large?

Because if you don't, stop with the false victim bullshit and stop acting like you're on the fence. If you don't think he's acting in the best interests of the country, or that the words coming out of his mouth can't be trusted, then why are you even getting upset about people criticizing him? We all know you have a hate-boner for Hillary, fine. Irrational, but fine. She's not running in 2020. So why take the attack on 2020 Trump voters so personal? Be straight up. Don't dance around it with if's, but's, or maybe's. You're not going to be banned, ostracized, or condemned en masse for having a coherent reason for holding a political opinion, even if Worry will likely continue to make broad-based statements about Trump voters. (The reason he does that, incidentally, is because normally if someone is actively engaging in racist politics, that should override any other reason TO vote for them, unless you support those politics as well. Like, if candidate A and B are mostly the same barring a handful of issues, and candidate B is also racist as fuck, it shouldn't matter that candidate A is just as corrupt as candidate B due to the latter being racist as well, you know?)

[Slow Ben]

Virgin of High House Bachelor, on 02 February 2019 - 05:02 PM, said:

The economy has been mostly good to great(I know the term before contributes in the beginning) despite a little hiccup this past month its back and higher then ever. Unemployment has been in record lows iirc but going up on paper now with this last shutdown. Our veterans are atleast getting better care then the past. This still needs to improve tremendously. I'm onboard with peace through strength. Im onboard with NATO nations needing to pay their share. I'm onboard with border security. I could take or leave the wall. Fuck Maduro. Atleast some progress with NoKo has been made though I know most here will dispute that(and everything else).

We are still here breathing.

I haven't said I would re vote. I just said we ll see. If I'm shunned for a political choice then so be it. Myself I can I get along with anyone despite who they vote for. If you can't then at this point(I say this point because I have lost some friendships I was truly honored to have just turn around and begin jabbing which was hurtful at the time) I just say deuces.

BK, I dont think anyone is going to shun you for your political ideas.

I'm just going to point out that everything you stated is bullshit propaganda that Fox News uses to make it look like successes for Trump. You're buying into political theater instead of actually seeing the issues.

[Gorefest]

Trump is a piece of trash. Every day, every minute, every second that that vile excuse for a human being is sitting in the White House is an extra blotch on world history.

I fully appreciate that people prefer to vote Republican over Democrat on political principles. But Trump's utter shittiness and sickness of the soul should trump (ho ho) any party political consideration.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 02 February 2019 - 06:26 PM

[Slow Ben]

Virgin of High House Bachelor, on 02 February 2019 - 07:32 PM, said:

Cutting up a tree

Have you cleared the area?

[worry]

This is the Trump administration. As far as I'm concerned, you vote for him in 2020 -- for any reason -- you don't get to wash your hands of this. You don't get to wash your hands of 'family separation,' or Puerto Rico, or Heather Heyer, or the Muslim ban, or Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller, and Jeff Sessions -- just cuz you're a single-issue voter who loves teaching the Bible in public schools or whatever. It's not a matter of if you, as an individual, feel racial animus. I don't care if you are "a racist." (Well, I do care, but not for the sake of these recent posts, and to be frank I don't think most people here are that way). But you can't go through life, in the year of our lord 2019, thinking racism in America is just a matter of one individual's personal biases towards a group of people -- or that dismantling racism and its consequences isn't to one degree or another an everyone-pitch-in kind of project that requires more than just being nice to other people (which is important, just in a necessary but not sufficient kind of way). And while they are much more uniform, overt, and toxic in their effect, I don't think Republicans have a monopoly on structural racism (the Standing Rock/pipeline stuff happened under Obama, after all).


So all that said, a vote for Donald Trump in 2020 is an unambiguous affirmation of structural, social, and individual-level racism. There's no way around it. And it's not like I said it out of the blue -- I believe I've made my case over the past few years, with as many citations as I could muster, and that where I've drawn my lines is legitimate (even if you don't always agree with me). Of course I don't demand other people draw their lines exactly where I do either, but at the same time it matters to me where you draw yours. It says something about you to others, whether you like what it says or not. Politics isn't a difference of opinion, like chocolate vs vanilla, it's a matter of defining our society's values and then honoring those values.


In terms of the economy, I don't know why we continually have to re-litigate trickle-down economics, but the summary is: it's a scam and always has been. So like, Trump's one achievement -- the tax cut for billionaires -- is a scam to funnel money upwards. I know this, you know this, we don't even have to argue about it. And other than that, we've had two straight years of Infrastructure Weeks with no infrastructure.


But more than that, as an aside kinda, does anyone else think the X/Y axis of 'economics' and 'social issues' is a little imbalanced? Like, why is economics 50% of the pie, and everything else in the world the other 50%? Does that really make sense? I'm not saying it's nothing -- even the New York Stock Exchange/Casino & Hotel isn't nothing, since so many people's retirements depend on it. But it seems like that line of thinking benefits economic conservatives to an insane degree. You can say "I'm socially moderate, but economically conservative" and not sound like the sociopath (or at least, booster of inhumane policy) that you are. In what other sphere of life would you hear that -- "I don't love it, but I suppose I would crush other people, let them starve, be sick, suffer, be attacked, be abused, be exploited, be killed -- for money" -- and not reject that person outright? It warps everything else.

[worry]

And to reiterate, I'm not singling out BK, now or before -- in fact, I've heard him say he's not sure about his 2020 vote before (as in, not just in the past day or so as a reaction to this conversation) -- and also I know it sucks, even when people are being polite, to feel like it's one person against everyone else. It just psychologically feels like a pile-on, even with good intentions involved. But I'm also just being honest -- embedded in principle, not just arbitrarily being mean -- about what I think are the stakes and what I think is the truth. And I'm being serious about how I think people should treat Trump voters in 2020. Like the willing facilitators of mass pain and suffering that they are.

[Illuyankas]

There's a focus on economics because the people who benefit from focusing solely on economics have the money to broadcast their viewpoint and opinions so it feeds back in to the increased apparent importance

Also please don't vote for Trump again, tia

[Malankazooie]

Ahhhh... a good ol' forum excoriation. I've been on the business end of one of those. It can be disheartening, but in the long run it builds character. I will add that there is a percentage of Trump voters that will not change their minds regardless of how much evidence you present them on how horrible a president/person Trump is. During the his run, when Trump said he could shoot someone and not lose voters, that might have been the most truthful thing he's said.

In other news. Trump supposedly has some 'big announcement' regarding border security to make at the State of the Union Address on Tuesday night. Some rumors are that he's going to propose building the wall himself (with his own money?). Yeah right. Although, then he could stamp his 'TRUMP' logo on it and that would probably do more to keep people out then any other measure.

Also, lets talk about the State of the Union Address. Pelosi should be sitting behind Trump during his speech, right? Lets play a drinking game, every time Pelosi sucks on her teeth/dentures, take a shot of your favorite libation. I anticipate to be on the floor passed out drunk before 15 min. has passed. Also, how long before Trump says something (or some non-verbal action) that's inappropriate in an attempt to take a shot at Pelosi?

Looking forward mostly to the Dems response/rebuttal after the speech. Stacy Abrams has that honor. You guys may know her as the political rock star who emerged from the battle for the governorship of Georgia. It will be interesting to see how she does and whether her performance further propels her into political prominence (eventually to make a run for prez?)

[Arashirn]

This government shut down was crazy just because they didn't give him what he wanted. I noticed that prices on property for sale in USA at that time just raised up, did anyone saw it? What do you think will happen with the 2nd shutdown? Will it take place in your opinion?

[Aptorian]

I think Trump will declare a state of emergency and set the military to work on the wall.

[QuickTidal]

Alternative Goose, on 04 February 2019 - 05:26 PM, said:

I think Trump will declare a state of emergency and set the military to work on the wall.

And that will get tied up hard in the courts and the wall will never materialize.

He knows this is his ONLY route out of this mess without losing his base.

[Aptorian]

I was wondering how that works.

If it's a state of emergency can the opposition block it and prevent action? Or will they first have to prove in court or whatever that the emergency is non-existent before they can stop it?

[Malankazooie]

Brady, a big Trump supporter, trolling the 'libtards' watching the Super Bowl? (fyi Pats owner and coach big Trump supporters too).

Make no mistake about it. Everything Brady does is premeditated and designed to serve some agenda.

[QuickTidal]

Alternative Goose, on 04 February 2019 - 06:27 PM, said:

I was wondering how that works.

If it's a state of emergency can the opposition block it and prevent action? Or will they first have to prove in court or whatever that the emergency is non-existent before they can stop it?

The stop will occur because a "wall" is not an emergency. Building one is not an emergency of any kind (since it would take years), and the "caravans" he keeps using as a "threat" that are incoming, never materialize and any refugees have already been stopped at the border, proving border security already functions fine.

I would assume this means some sort of injunction moved by the courts would prevent work from actually occurring...and the chances it gets to the SCOUTS and they bother hearing it as slim to none.

[worry]

I'm not sure what the precedent on this is. This (very long) article suggests that "The remedies for such behavior can come only after the fact, via court judgments, political blowback at the voting booth, or impeachment" in terms of a president abusing his emergency powers.

https://www.theatlan...-powers/576418/


Malan is right though that he's not really in jeopardy of losing his base, who will largely vote for him no matter what. I see no signs he's even particularly in jeopardy of losing most nominally uncomfortable-with-Trump Republicans, who are also going to vote R no matter what even if they claim to agree this particular guy behaves objectionably. It's pretty clear that they will tolerate anything in exchange for money and/or pet issues.

[Aptorian]

You guys see the Moscow email dump on BuzzFeed?

Secret Files Show How Trump Moscow Talks Unfolded While Trump Heaped Praise On Putin https://www.buzzfeed...hen-sater-putin

I'd like to think this is significant. I'd like to think the recent inauguration subpeoana is significant. But it seems like it's just a never ending torrent of kinda dirty stuff that never quite touches Trump.

[worry]

Yah, it does seem that way, but legal and illegal are different than right and wrong, especially when the wrongdoing is done at the high finance level, so it's all beyond me.


Like, these are some of the most useless, empty people on planet earth, yet they lead more comfortable, stress-free lives than everyone I've ever met. It's a topsy turvy world!

[Gorefest]

I'm an atheist but at times I feverishly wish there was something like a higher being and a Final Judgement, just so I could find solace in Rupert Murdoch burning for eternity in a special kind of Hell just for him. But then again I guess he is more a symptom than a cause, so I'm probably being unfair. the public gets what the public wants.

[Macros]

the public gets what murdoch wants.

you aren't being harsh enough on that piece of trash

[Tsundoku]

Macros, on 06 February 2019 - 01:29 PM, said:

the public gets what murdoch wants.

you aren't being harsh enough on that piece of trash

Sincere apologies #notallaustralians