[amphibian]

Alternative Goose, on 12 April 2018 - 07:50 PM, said:

Maybe the Russians just don't care but I can't see them being this sloppy. Maybe I just have a more noble idea of what kinds of rules that are at play in the cold war games between the bigger nations but I'd hope even Russia didn't want to play chicken with chemical warfare.

Then again, considering the things Russia is wlling to do to its own people, who knows.

I think you're living in a dream world where you expect competence in murder, invasion, suppression of minorities and dissenters, and even in hiding of stolen money from the Russian oligarchy.

Do you remember Mentalist writing all those messy updates on the Crimea invasion? How about the gassing of the hostage takers in the Russian school a while ago? The mall movie fire that just happened? The poisoning of Litvenenko? The tampering with the US presidential election that was done in a nearly laughable manner?

Chemical, radiation, and biological weapons have been on the table for individual murder for a while now, Apt. It's a horrible thing to think about and it is even worse to know that they're not being done competently.

Because that's who the Russian oligarchy is and to a large degree, that's who we are as people. There's lesser examples the world over.

[amphibian]

A Russian whistle-blower (also fugitive) was bludgeoned to death in a Washington DC hotel a few years back. His murder was never "solved".

Oddly enough, I stayed at that hotel last year. It's nice and there 100% were cameras that tracked people coming and going. The "unsolved" aspect is likely a polite fiction.

The Israelis did a murder of someone in the Middle East a couple years ago and the airport footage, hotel footage etc all showed exactly how it happened minus the exact murder in the hotel room. No way that didn't happen in DC.

[worry]

And let's not forget the assassination of Kim Jong-Nam, in public, using a "military grade" nerve agent: http://www.businessi...empt-in-2010-11

[Mezla PigDog]

Many states openly banding together to condemn Putin strengthens him internally. He runs on a strong man nationalist platform. Making the Russians feel like it's us-against-the-world helps with his nationalist agenda and having people question it because of it's brazenness plays into the Russian narrative that they are victims.

If I was a Russian agent who was thinking of turning against Putin now - I would think a lot harder especially if I had a family.

I've been inside Porton Down. It isn't really that top secret if they let me in.

[Abyss]

Alternative Goose, on 12 April 2018 - 07:50 PM, said:

...Maybe I just have a more noble idea of what kinds of rules that are at play in the cold war games between the bigger nations but I'd hope even Russia didn't want to play chicken with chemical warfare...

I fear your hopes are hopelessly un-hopefull.

[Aptorian]

I don't disagree with all the counter-arguments you guys are making. God knows, I am not an expert on counter-intelligence or what ever but on the other hand, I think there's also a tendency of looking at Russia as the mad dogs and discouraging their skill for lack of a better word.

Behind these institutions, be they spies or killers, there has to be some kind of rational leadership. Unless they do regular purges, there has to be an older leadership, one that understands there's consequences to every move in this game of chess.

As such, the chemical attack (Britains words) is arguably out of the norm and pretty unsubtle. I don't think this was just a punishment of a traitor.

[Abyss]

Alternative Goose, on 13 April 2018 - 03:34 PM, said:

...
Behind these institutions, be they spies or killers, there has to be some kind of rational leadership...

Incorrect.

[QuickTidal]

As Comey might say: Oh lordy! There are tapes.

But guys...why worry? I thought your boy was innocent? Won't any tapes that exist exonerate him? Unless....wait....were you all LYING? Gasp.

[Malankazooie]

Since Cohen is Trump's fixer/cleaner, the possibilities of what the FBI seized is only limited by one's own twisted imagination. Just think of all the salacious, gross, weird, bizarre, criminal, devious information they may have seized. I'd gear up in a hasmat suit first before handling the material.

[Gorefest]

Trump seems a bit annoyed today.


They should have cast him as Aerys Targaryen in the GoT flashback scenes. Only I guess Aerys was a bit more understated.

[Cause]

Alternative Goose, on 13 April 2018 - 03:34 PM, said:

I don't disagree with all the counter-arguments you guys are making. God knows, I am not an expert on counter-intelligence or what ever but on the other hand, I think there's also a tendency of looking at Russia as the mad dogs and discouraging their skill for lack of a better word.

Behind these institutions, be they spies or killers, there has to be some kind of rational leadership. Unless they do regular purges, there has to be an older leadership, one that understands there's consequences to every move in this game of chess.

As such, the chemical attack (Britains words) is arguably out of the norm and pretty unsubtle. I don't think this was just a punishment of a traitor.

My countries spy agencies would like to disagree with you. When loyalty (to the president, the party etc) becomes more important than competence anything can happen.

[QuickTidal]

Highlights from Comey's book.

[amphibian]

Alternative Goose, on 13 April 2018 - 03:34 PM, said:

I don't disagree with all the counter-arguments you guys are making. God knows, I am not an expert on counter-intelligence or what ever but on the other hand, I think there's also a tendency of looking at Russia as the mad dogs and discouraging their skill for lack of a better word.

Behind these institutions, be they spies or killers, there has to be some kind of rational leadership. Unless they do regular purges, there has to be an older leadership, one that understands there's consequences to every move in this game of chess.

Why does there have to be competence? Trump has staffed his government appointments with filthy rich people and there's not actually a lot of competence on display in their actual jobs. Putin made a deal with the oligarchs that he would take a bit of their money and then pretty much let them go unfettered, so long as they made the right public obeisance and kept paying him. The ones killed, driven out, or slapped down are the ones who lost the games of shitty politics to curry his favor vs the other ones or stopped paying him.

The assumption of competence is a strange one to make in the face of all this evidence that things are not actually working as they're supposed to.

[worry]

Speaking of competence, turns out President Trump's personal lawyer Michael Cohen paid off another woman impregnated by a Republican fudnraiser, and used the exact same pseudonyms he used for the Stormy Daniels payoff.

https://twitter.com/...840700385808385

This post has been edited by worry: 13 April 2018 - 09:10 PM

[worry]

No, President Trump's coercive sex with a housekeeper that resulted in an apparent out-of-wedlock child, and the subsequent payoff of a doorman to keep quiet about it by DJT's buddies at the National Enquirer, is as far as I know separate from the two Michael Cohen-related events, i.e. Donald Trump's affair with Stormy Daniels while his wife was giving birth and that Michael Cohen helped cover up & the similar thing he did for the RNC fundraiser Elliott Broidy.

[Mentalist]

Alternative Goose, on 12 April 2018 - 07:50 PM, said:

I guess it's a question of how you spin it but the way the West have chosen to view this attack, is as a chemical attack - as in the use of a chemical agent or a poisonous gas.

Which, if we want to weigh different acts of power or tools of warfare, has been a big no no, from WW1 and forward. Perhaps even more feared than Nuclear War is the proliferation or just casual use of chemical and biological warfare.

Maybe the Russians just don't care but I can't see them being this sloppy. Maybe I just have a more noble idea of what kinds of rules that are at play in the cold war games between the bigger nations but I'd hope even Russia didn't want to play chicken with chemical warfare.

Then again, considering the things Russia is wlling to do to its own people, who knows.

I'm obviously gonna be biased about this (shocking, I know).

VVH's entire political career, starting with the 1999 bombings and the subsequent Second War in Chechnya is best described as "brazen".

And regarding their "skill": they perfected information warfare through manipulation of the internet. They've been doing it for years in the runes, which is what most of the CIS cares about.

It only made waves when they openly took it to the English-speaking portion of the net, but they've been doing this for about a decade now.

That's pretty cutting edge, you must admit. The West is starting this round off the back foot. And the reason? NO ONE could imagine that anyone would try to do something so " blatant"

But they did. And it worked.

So they've got every reason to keep doing what's been working.

This post has been edited by Mentalist: 14 April 2018 - 12:08 AM

[worry]

Hmm. I guess Syria is as godawful a distraction war as any.

[HoosierDaddy]

Whelp. This should be stupid on Syria.

[worry]

I'm gonna puke.

[Nicodimas]

Well that’s brilliant...

Zerohedge usually drops more than mainstream media..

https://www.zerohedg...s-syria-tonight