[worry]

I really hope HRC is "over" in terms of running, but yah she still wants to be a power player, and the apparatus that wanted her is still in place. And Obama is part of that, and he certainly isn't over as a power player. He supported Tom Perez specifically to stop Keith Ellison at the DNC, and he rather significantly endorsed Macron and didn't do anything for Corbyn. So yah, centrist Dems occasionally fall left on social issues, but economically they'll still do the same cost-benefit analysis of how much human suffering they have to allow to still get invited to like Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos's house. They're gonna get the same wake-up call as Republicans once the generational tipping point hits, but I don't know if that's gonna be as soon as 2018 or 2020.

[amphibian]

Some of Obama's campaign people went to go work for Theresa May.

I get that a job is a job, but these people are already fairly wealthy and powerful. They have the pick of clients and chose that one.

[Macros]

They must not have been the cream of the Obama campaigns crop because May ran a fucking shambles of a campaign (thankfully)

[amphibian]

Macros, on 20 June 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

They must not have been the cream of the Obama campaigns crop because May ran a fucking shambles of a campaign (thankfully)

The current thinking is that the Obama campaign people may have been a group of people who could only get Obama or very similar to Obama candidates (very rare) elected. This means that they don't transfer well to candidates/people who aren't Obama.

I used to think Rahm was a great shot at liberals coming back into power in the Democrat system, but he's been bad as the Chicago mayor and those he picked to run things after he left Congress fucked the elections up afterward.

This ripping of hope and narratives from me has made me somewhat bitter, but at least I see better now.

[Abyss]

Campaign people tend to fall into two categories... those looking to get into politics for whatever idealistic or personally ambitious reason, and those whose profession is getting people - any people, however oriented or dislikeable - elected.

May likely swept up some of the latter. Even Obama had them.

[Vengeance]

Rahm will be lucky to remain mayor of Chicago. Sure he came in and got handed a plate of shit from 30 years of Daley but then he managed to fuck everyone over in the city. What he has done to the schools alone should prevent him from being reelected. Never mind the shit that he pulled with Quinn to help get his buddy Rauner elected Governer. That came back and bit him in the ass. It will really boil down who runs against Rahm. If it is the head of the teachers union then we could actually see a good race.


I think that locally the IL Governers race will be something to watch. If somehow Ameya Pawar is able to come out on top against Rauner and Kennedy and Pritzker. Then he will be someone that the Democrat party will be able to look to for the future.

[D'rek]

re: Pence/Ryan as Pres vs leaving Trump - I'm not too familiar with how everything all works, but aren't Ryan and/or Pence already passing plenty of new laws already in their current positions? Could an argument be made that with Trump sitting as President all his antics make a big diversion so the media cover him while Ryan/Pence enact horrible new policies... but if Trumpet were impeached the distraction would be gone and there would be more coverage to more people of what policies Ryan/Pence are enacting?

[QuickTidal]

So I've been seeing the same thing from a bunch of Trump supporters over the last little while as it becomes more and more apparent that the Russians REALLY messed with/attempted to mess with the Election.

"Well, did it affect the outcome? If so, do you have proof?"

This is the level we are at folks.

That people are SO messed up in the head that it's not the VERY FACT that a FOREIGN POWER, AT THE BEHEST OF ITS LEADER, MEDDLED OR ATTEMPTED TO MEDDLE IN YOUR ELECTORAL PROCESS ON A MAJOR SCALE...it's whether that actually affected the outcome of "Trump in the White House". Because apparently none of that other SCARY ASS statement matters as long as it may not have affected the outcome or Trump in the White House.

I mean what the everloving hell!? For a group of people so intent on "Making America Great Again"....they sure don't seem to give a flying fuck that another world power messed with or tried to mess with your political system on a grand scale.

[amphibian]

D, on 20 June 2017 - 08:28 PM, said:

re: Pence/Ryan as Pres vs leaving Trump - I'm not too familiar with how everything all works, but aren't Ryan and/or Pence already passing plenty of new laws already in their current positions? Could an argument be made that with Trump sitting as President all his antics make a big diversion so the media cover him while Ryan/Pence enact horrible new policies... but if Trumpet were impeached the distraction would be gone and there would be more coverage to more people of what policies Ryan/Pence are enacting?

Some specificity is needed. Congress right now is getting very little done. The things Trump is doing with his presidential orders is mostly directed towards dismantling the web of presidential orders that Obama enacted in order to sort of work around an obstructionist (and incredibly unproductive) Congress post 2010.

Directing attention to what Ryan, McConnell and Pence are doing in Congress is a steady constant - and they hate it. What they're doing now is attempting to rewrite history to say the ACA (known as Obamacare) was produced in the same secret and no-debate way as the AHCA just released today. It was not.

The AHCA finally got released for review and it will kill millions over time if it gets through. Many more millions will be broken financially by things like lifetime limits to insurance usage, denial of coverage, and the many other awful things it proposes.

One thing driving this AHCA is a belief that "good living" will prevent all major illnesses and conditions. They want to "reward" those who "live well" and make life costly for those who "don't live well". The nebulous meaning of "live well" is a design feature, but it's really aimed squarely at the poor.

[Cause]

So if Trump has admitted there are no tapes does this not prove by Itself that he used a tweet to intimidate a witness?

[Aptorian]

I think Trump's answer to that question would be something like this:

I was just joking. It was a joke. Can't you take a joke? I'm a funny guy! People always say I'm the funniest and let me tell you folks, I know some funny people, and the they say I am the funniest. Now people say I am threatening people! Me! Can you believe it? I'll tell you, the real joke here is the mainstream media. They distort everything I say! I make a joke and they say I am threatening people. Boy oh boy. Can you believe it! Anyway, it was my birthday last week, as you know, great celebration! HUGE. So many people came out to congratulate me... and on and on and on

This post has been edited by Seduce Goose: 23 June 2017 - 06:51 AM

[QuickTidal]

Seduce Goose, on 23 June 2017 - 06:51 AM, said:

I think Trump's answer to that question would be something like this:

I was just joking. It was a joke. Can't you take a joke? I'm a funny guy! People always say I'm the funniest and let me tell you folks, I know some funny people, and the they say I am the funniest. Now people say I am threatening people! Me! Can you believe it? I'll tell you, the real joke here is the mainstream media. They distort everything I say! I make a joke and they say I am threatening people. Boy oh boy. Can you believe it! Anyway, it was my birthday last week, as you know, great celebration! HUGE. So many people came out to congratulate me... and on and on and on

Actually, he went another way. He apparently did it to "try to keep Comey honest" according to a tweet overnight.

If that weren't so laughable...I can't...King Liar attempting to keep someone "honest". Fucks sake, you can't write this into a comedic play...no one would believe it. He would be the moustache-twirling villain to end all moustache-twirling villains.

I love that this guy is SO incredibly stupid as to be trying to shut Mueller down, and disparage Comey...meanwhile if he was as clean as he claims he is...he'd let the investigation run hard and clear him. Only those people who are guilty AF scream "witch hunt!" and attempt to fire their way through the investigators to get themselves out the other side of what is clearly guilt.

[Cause]

Trump: ‘My Story Didn’t Change, My Story Was Always a Straight Story’

Also he hedges quite poorly on whether the tapes exist or not.

[Gorefest]

Is there any US news network left apart from Fox who still support Trump? His current approval rating among US citizens apparently hovers somewhere around the 40% mark, which seems worryingly low. Not sure on what percentage of Americans watch Fox "news"?

[Vengeance]

Gorefest, on 23 June 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

Is there any US news network left apart from Fox who still support Trump? His current approval rating among US citizens apparently hovers somewhere around the 40% mark, which seems worryingly low. Not sure on what percentage of Americans watch Fox "news"?

Trumps support among the people who elected him remains the same that it has always been. He has never had popular support unlike Obama. Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million votes. He won the presidency by 80k - 120k votes in 3 states. What is depressing is that 36% of the voting public still support him.

[QuickTidal]

Let me see if I have this bit right.

Trump said the threat of tapes was to make sure Comey was kept honest, then is that Trump admitting that what Comey has said so far is true?

That's how I read that.

Or is it like the election? If he loses it's rigged. If he wins, it's all above board and perfectly executed.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 23 June 2017 - 06:29 PM

[Aptorian]

No, he wanted Comey to be honest, but that no good lying Deep State secret operative committed treason by lying under oath about Trump's totally not criminal request. Sad. #Draintheswamp #MAGA #Itsmybirthday

This post has been edited by Seduce Goose: 23 June 2017 - 08:12 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

Haha and now he is saying that Mueller can't be considered neutral in this. Just like everything Trump has done so far is straight shooting and impartial...

[worry]

FOX ain't the only one. MSNBC is gradually purging a lot of the people it can get away with and hiring right-wingers in their place. Hugh Hewitt -- a Trump-fawning conservative radio scumbag -- is the latest. And while I like and respect Chris Hayes, his guests are so often the same anti-Trump-because-he's-boorish Republicans or beltway centrist "liberals" (last night alone he had Jennifer Rubin, Joan Walsh, and Ezra Klein on the same episode) that their discussions are rote. They water down Hayes who is generally quite perceptive and even sometimes genuinely left-wing or left-adjacent, and that gets moderated down when he has doofuses like Chait on.

Not networks, but NYT and WaPo's op/ed pages are at significant low points. If the "mainstream media" is left wing at all, they have a funny way of showing it.

[worry]

Luckily the admin has a solution: http://www.cnbc.com/...n-get-jobs.html