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The USA Politics Thread

#13221 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 23 August 2022 - 12:08 PM

'How are Florida's public colleges [in the US "college" = "university"] handling the "Stop WOKE Act"? Here's North Florida College's warning to faculty[...]

Can Mr. Allen make a sweeping statement that white people were responsible for enacting these [Jim Crow] laws?
• No, Mr. Allen should avoid making any statements that assign the blame for a act on any
particular race, though exploring the motives of the specific individuals that enacted such laws
would be permitted.

[...] It is important to remember that instructional aides, including news articles, movies, books, and other items may not meet the requirements of HB 7

[...] if the classroom is opened as a forum for discussion amongst students, HB 7 would prohibit the endorsement or silencing of any opinion unless you are endorsing an opinion issued by the Department of Education.

While you are still free to open a classroom for discussion, we recommend opening the discussion with a statement such as "I'm going to open this topic for discussion at this time and would ask that you listen to the opinions of your colleagues respectfully. While such discussions are important to your education, the opinions stated by your fellow students do not reflect those of the College.'

Adam Steinbaugh on Twitter: "How are Florida's public colleges handling the "Stop WOKE Act"? Here's North Florida College's warning to faculty, from slides obtained by @theFIREorg (here: https://t.co/R1iRw9O2Iz): https://t.co/leyATLTc47"

It's okay to 'endorse an opinion' only if it's been officially endorsed by the Department of Education [of Florida I'd guess], but 'silencing of any opinion' is strictly prohibited. Whether overtly racist, Nazi, QAnon... no matter whether it has any grounding in empirical reality or logic or any scholarly merit. Granted, there may be some virtue in allowing any 'opinion' to be voiced and then critiqued for flaws in the reasoning or the 'evidence'... but the people most likely to voice Neo-Nazi / QAnon / etc. beliefs are usually almost impossible to reason with.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 23 August 2022 - 12:09 PM

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#13222 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 24 August 2022 - 05:13 PM

While $10k is frankly too low and means testing sucks, the student debt cancellation plan is still a huge deal (certainly in my life, and also more generally) -- I shouldn't exclude it's $20k for Pell Granters either -- plus a lot of the details beyond the cancellation look to be very helpful long-term, at least for undergraduate debt. Pretty good day, if this stays the biggest news.
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#13223 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 24 August 2022 - 05:41 PM

View PostRenewed For 2 More Seasons, on 24 August 2022 - 05:13 PM, said:

While $10k is frankly too low and means testing sucks, the student debt cancellation plan is still a huge deal (certainly in my life, and also more generally) -- I shouldn't exclude it's $20k for Pell Granters either -- plus a lot of the details beyond the cancellation look to be very helpful long-term, at least for undergraduate debt. Pretty good day, if this stays the biggest news.


Will be interesting to see how much (if at all) this seems to affect Biden's approval ratings among the most relevant demographics. Now he's finally at least partially fulfilled his campaign promise... and put off having to pay until after the next elections.
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#13224 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 24 August 2022 - 06:59 PM

https://news.yahoo.c...-170240240.html

This is being handled all wrong. Debt should be forgiven and the tax bill should land on the engineers and doctors and high paying degree fields..

Split up the tax bill between those, roughly drop say 70k of debt on them. If they don’t have it take it from their retirement or salary as extra taxes divided up over five years. It’s the successful peoples responsibility who get paid more to pay their fellow peers who weren’t quite as lucky, or who fields aren’t as profitable as those who worked hard to accrue debt.

Clearly those that earned there advanced degrees should be paying the tab for those that didn’t. This would be a great system to continue forward too.. as they make way more than those that did less paying degrees or didn’t finish.

(This would be a great! as we could continue raising prices on college degrees and making making sure gainful employment occurs based off each degree chosen that ties into each degree )
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#13225 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 24 August 2022 - 07:42 PM

The provision that caps payments at 5% of income is really big. The provision that says no interest if payments are on time is even bigger. I couldn't get ahead of my interest at all.

This is really big, even as I wish it were even bigger and went with 50k cancellation.

I know of two people right now who are thrilled about being out from under 9k and 7k of undergrad loans. There's 20 million of that person happening right now.

The thing that Nicodimas and others can't fully grasp is that this is really affordable, boosts so many people in dire straits, and is something that boosts employment + happiness + abilities to put food on the table. Student loans aren't about necessarily finishing undergraduate - they're for nursing school, tech schools etc as well and the forgiveness isn't impacting graduate school loans to the degree Nicodimas is talking about here.

Coming out against this is really bizarre and shows that you don't understand the nature of student loans here in the US. I recommend reading Lower Ed by Dr. Tressie McMilliam-Cottom for a truly excellent look at what happened over the last 20 years with for-profit colleges.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 24 August 2022 - 08:16 PM

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#13226 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 24 August 2022 - 07:57 PM

University should be free (at least for citizens). In Germany public universities are tuition free (as they used to be in the UK---now there's a tuition cap of £9,250 for students from the UK or Ireland). It's a public good.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 24 August 2022 - 08:05 PM

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#13227 User is offline   Malankazooie 

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Posted 24 August 2022 - 09:38 PM

Conservative side really hammering away on Fetterman's health. I guess a mean spirited tweet or campaign material by Oz got it going. It's too bad this is what our politics has lowered itself to. But it is important; knowing if your elected officials are of acceptable health to complete the requirements of the job. And know that if it was reversed, the liberal side would do they same. Remember "man, camera, person, woman"? Oh drat, I think i got that wrong. May have to go in for cognitive tests.
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#13228 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 24 August 2022 - 11:32 PM

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#13229 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 25 August 2022 - 02:10 PM

View PostMalankazooie, on 24 August 2022 - 09:38 PM, said:

Conservative side really hammering away on Fetterman's health. I guess a mean spirited tweet or campaign material by Oz got it going. It's too bad this is what our politics has lowered itself to. But it is important; knowing if your elected officials are of acceptable health to complete the requirements of the job. And know that if it was reversed, the liberal side would do they same. Remember "man, camera, person, woman"? Oh drat, I think i got that wrong. May have to go in for cognitive tests.



Despite him running in PA, all I knew was that he was beating Doctor Oz, is considered an evereyday man candidate and had a stroke 3 months ago but had recovered. However I saw him speak recently and the truth is that he does struggle. He struggled to recall certain words while speaking and used obviously incorrect synonyms and at times just skipped over the word.

I dont have much personal experience with strokes so Im not sure what this really means. He can continue to recover I believe and I dont know if it just effects his speech or also his thinking but its not nothing.

Herschal Walker is clearly mentally deficient and for that reason should never be senator. Fetterman could run rings around walker from the looks of it but its not a nothing point.
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#13230 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 25 August 2022 - 03:45 PM

View PostCause, on 25 August 2022 - 02:10 PM, said:

View PostMalankazooie, on 24 August 2022 - 09:38 PM, said:

Conservative side really hammering away on Fetterman's health. I guess a mean spirited tweet or campaign material by Oz got it going. It's too bad this is what our politics has lowered itself to. But it is important; knowing if your elected officials are of acceptable health to complete the requirements of the job. And know that if it was reversed, the liberal side would do they same. Remember "man, camera, person, woman"? Oh drat, I think i got that wrong. May have to go in for cognitive tests.



Despite him running in PA, all I knew was that he was beating Doctor Oz, is considered an evereyday man candidate and had a stroke 3 months ago but had recovered. However I saw him speak recently and the truth is that he does struggle. He struggled to recall certain words while speaking and used obviously incorrect synonyms and at times just skipped over the word.

I dont have much personal experience with strokes so Im not sure what this really means. He can continue to recover I believe and I dont know if it just effects his speech or also his thinking but its not nothing.

Herschal Walker is clearly mentally deficient and for that reason should never be senator. Fetterman could run rings around walker from the looks of it but its not a nothing point.


Fetterman claimed the doctors told him he had 'no cognitive damage', but it seems like difficulty recalling words should definitely be considered at least short-term cognitive impairment. (At least assuming it isn't motor impairment making it difficult to speak particular combinations of phonemes.)

Pennsylvania Senate candidate Fetterman hospitalized with stroke


(I've also seen news sources attribute the phrase 'no cognitive impairment' to him, but they seem a bit sketchy. Might be a well-sourced direct quote I didn't see though....)

His campaign also claims he was rushed to the hospital within minutes of first exhibiting symptoms and that doctors say he's expected to make a full recovery. Experts say that the faster the blood clot is removed the greater the chance of a full recovery.

Apparently patients who recover fully usually do so within a few months---I saw 6 months mentioned in particular---but some people have lingering symptoms past that....

If he does have significant cognitive impairment, I'm fine with that provided he understands his impairment and responsibly allows other people to make the decisions for him, without making rash final decisions on his own. It seems very unlikely though.

He'd essentially have to go completely crazy (or go over to Trump) for me to seriously consider not voting for him.
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#13231 User is offline   Malankazooie 

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Posted 25 August 2022 - 05:47 PM

I know stroke survivors can experience aphasia, which is what derailed Bruce Willis's career, so that could be what's going on with Fetterman's public speaking. The stroke that he experienced was back in June (I think?), so I imagine he is still going through various forms of therapy.

Hershel Walker is a non-starter for me. It's Georgia though, so he'll probably win. But, yeah, it's so uncomfortable to hear him talk that I don't even give him more than a few seconds, and only very rarely I might catch some highlights where I think "what is he saying now."
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#13232 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 25 August 2022 - 07:07 PM

View PostMalankazooie, on 25 August 2022 - 05:47 PM, said:

I know stroke survivors can experience aphasia, which is what derailed Bruce Willis's career, so that could be what's going on with Fetterman's public speaking. The stroke that he experienced was back in June (I think?), so I imagine he is still going through various forms of therapy.

Hershel Walker is a non-starter for me. It's Georgia though, so he'll probably win. But, yeah, it's so uncomfortable to hear him talk that I don't even give him more than a few seconds, and only very rarely I might catch some highlights where I think "what is he saying now."



Warnock is leading Walker in the polls but it's close enough to be within the margin of error for the most recent one listed on FiveThirtyEight.

Georgia : U.S. Senate : 2022 Polls | FiveThirtyEight

The Phillips Academy Poll - Latest Polling Updates - Results, Insights, and Analysis (andoverpoll.com)

Looks like Walker may have actually been gaining in popularity, if the polls are accurate (... and if they're not, then they're probably undercounting Walker voters).
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#13233 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 25 August 2022 - 07:28 PM

'SCOTUS Will Probably Kill Student Debt Relief. But Biden Has a Backup Plan.

[...] Going by the plain language of the law alone, Biden's plan is likely legal. Sure, it's probably not how Congress envisioned the Heroes Act functioning. But the program fits into the text that Congress actually passed. These days, however, the Supreme Court no longer uses textualism to assess administrative actions. Instead, it asks whether a federal program involves a "major question"—which just means anything five justices deem a big deal. When handling a "major question," the court demands an explicit grant of authority from Congress, even if existing law appears to permit the program already. As Justice Elena Kagan put it, the "major questions doctrine" serves as a "get-out-of-text-free" card that can "magically appear" whenever it serves the conservative majority's "broader goals." (Specifically, the dismantlement of the administrative state.)

[...] Biden can simply announce that any borrower affected by the pandemic can apply for relief; if they can prove hardship, their debts get canceled. The Heroes Act[...] says such "case-by-case" adjudication is unnecessary. And this method would increase administrative burdens [Supreme Court might love that] while shrinking the pool of beneficiaries, since some eligible borrowers will fail to apply. But it would still help millions [...] (There's a direct analogy to Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe restoring felon voting rights one person at a time after the Virginia Supreme Court wouldn't let him do it all at once.)

[...] open question whether anyone can sue against Biden's program in the first place. [...] To prove standing, a party would have to demonstrate concrete harm to them, and show how blocking cancellation would remedy that harm. Republicans complain that Biden's program hurts taxpayers, but under Supreme Court precedent, taxpayers don't have standing to sue. Former borrowers aren't directly injured, nor can they show that forcing everybody else to pay off their loans would somehow benefit them. [...] State governments aren't injured, since forgiving federal loans imposes no burden on their finances or sovereignty.

Loan servicers, who are federal contractors, have the best case for standing because they profit from processing repayment and will therefore lose money under Biden's plan. [...] courts have generally refused to let contractors sue against federal regulations that hurt their bottom line. [...] If they could all sue "to protect their fiefdoms from regulatory change," [...] they would guarantee "ossification" of the entire government. [This Supreme Court might really love that.]

In truth, though, certain key circuit courts and the Supreme Court seem to follow one standing rule: When a majority wants to decide a case on the merits, they find some justification to grant standing; when it doesn't, they don't.'

The Supreme Court will likely block Biden's student debt relief plan, but there's a backup
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#13234 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 25 August 2022 - 07:42 PM

View PostAzath Vitr (D, on 25 August 2022 - 07:07 PM, said:

View PostMalankazooie, on 25 August 2022 - 05:47 PM, said:

I know stroke survivors can experience aphasia, which is what derailed Bruce Willis's career, so that could be what's going on with Fetterman's public speaking. The stroke that he experienced was back in June (I think?), so I imagine he is still going through various forms of therapy.

Hershel Walker is a non-starter for me. It's Georgia though, so he'll probably win. But, yeah, it's so uncomfortable to hear him talk that I don't even give him more than a few seconds, and only very rarely I might catch some highlights where I think "what is he saying now."



Warnock is leading Walker in the polls but it's close enough to be within the margin of error for the most recent one listed on FiveThirtyEight.

Georgia : U.S. Senate : 2022 Polls | FiveThirtyEight

The Phillips Academy Poll - Latest Polling Updates - Results, Insights, and Analysis (andoverpoll.com)

Looks like Walker may have actually been gaining in popularity, if the polls are accurate (... and if they're not, then they're probably undercounting Walker voters).


You really have to be tribal to rather elect a brain damaged senator than a democrat.

Even if Walker wasn’t obviously suffering from one too many concussions he has admitted on top of that to have dissociative identity disorder.
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#13235 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

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Posted 26 August 2022 - 07:45 AM

View PostCause, on 25 August 2022 - 07:42 PM, said:


You really have to be tribal to rather elect a brain damaged senator than a democrat.



This is the thing though isn't it. From an outsider's perspective, America seems much much MUCH more tribalistic than even the UK when it comes to politics, with folk voting one way or another just to spite the other side. It's getting that way here too, and we now also have the same lack of distinction between the major Parties when it comes to overall policy.
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#13236 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 26 August 2022 - 11:47 AM

Congressman from Indiana:

Posted Image


Posted Image


Verified by NPR:

'Texas law that requires public schools to display signs and posters with the national motto "In God We Trust" in "conspicuous places." The law requires that the signs were either donated or purchased from private donations to the school.

[...] As far as he could tell, there was no requirement that the motto be written in English. He decided to start a fundraising campaign to send posters to schools around the state with the motto written in Arabic instead.

[...] "And as an artist, it's always art forward for me. So I thought, well, know what looks good ... and then it occurred to me that Arabic is beautiful."

[...] Republican [...] Bryan Hughes authored the bill[...]

[...] the U.S. flag and Texas state flag must be represented on the poster as well. It "may not depict any words, images, or other information."

[...] Though the law does not mention English being the only language that can be displayed, Hughes responded to news of Stevens' campaign.

"Read the bill. Sign must contain "In God We Trust" US flag, Texas flag and "may not depict" any other words or images," Hughes wrote. "Print what you like, but only these signs qualify under the law."'

Why an activist plans to send 'In God We Trust' signs in Arabic to Texas schools
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#13237 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 26 August 2022 - 03:55 PM

The fact that 'in god we trust' is the US motto is ridiculous and it only gets passed again several times a year. I looked into the history of it once. Whole thing was a reaction to the cold war and an attack on those godless commies. Its been challenged multiple times as violating seperation of church and state but never succeeds because it never says which god which can be taken as an endorsement of all religeions. Except I guess those with multiple gods and of course it does implicilty imply some religion is expected.
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#13238 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 26 August 2022 - 03:59 PM

View PostMaark Abbott, on 26 August 2022 - 07:45 AM, said:

View PostCause, on 25 August 2022 - 07:42 PM, said:


You really have to be tribal to rather elect a brain damaged senator than a democrat.



This is the thing though isn't it. From an outsider's perspective, America seems much much MUCH more tribalistic than even the UK when it comes to politics, with folk voting one way or another just to spite the other side. It's getting that way here too, and we now also have the same lack of distinction between the major Parties when it comes to overall policy.


In Ontario in Canada we have a theme that we don't vote people INTO power, we vote them OUT of power and no one seems to give much thought to the person we elect to take their place until like 4-8 years later when the mistake is finally realized by most people and we then vote THAT person out and replace them with someone just s inexplicable....it's not tribalism, but we DO vote blindly as a populace for "whoever isn't THIS person"...
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#13239 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 26 August 2022 - 06:51 PM

View PostCause, on 25 August 2022 - 07:42 PM, said:

View PostAzath Vitr (D, on 25 August 2022 - 07:07 PM, said:

View PostMalankazooie, on 25 August 2022 - 05:47 PM, said:

I know stroke survivors can experience aphasia, which is what derailed Bruce Willis's career, so that could be what's going on with Fetterman's public speaking. The stroke that he experienced was back in June (I think?), so I imagine he is still going through various forms of therapy.

Hershel Walker is a non-starter for me. It's Georgia though, so he'll probably win. But, yeah, it's so uncomfortable to hear him talk that I don't even give him more than a few seconds, and only very rarely I might catch some highlights where I think "what is he saying now."



Warnock is leading Walker in the polls but it's close enough to be within the margin of error for the most recent one listed on FiveThirtyEight.

Georgia : U.S. Senate : 2022 Polls | FiveThirtyEight

The Phillips Academy Poll - Latest Polling Updates - Results, Insights, and Analysis (andoverpoll.com)

Looks like Walker may have actually been gaining in popularity, if the polls are accurate (... and if they're not, then they're probably undercounting Walker voters).


You really have to be tribal to rather elect a brain damaged senator than a democrat.

Even if Walker wasn’t obviously suffering from one too many concussions he has admitted on top of that to have dissociative identity disorder.

A disability can cause someone to require supports and services. I work in a job that deals with this all day every day.

A disability also doesn't have to be permanent. Something like a strike can cause temporary disability, as in several months or years, before full functionality is experienced. Fetterman still seems to have great decision making skills, even if his speech skills are not up to what they were before. I'm fine with him being elected and if he never regains full speech functionality, it's fine with me if he keeps being a Senator.

On the other hand, I think Dianne Feinstein is experiencing dementia to the point where she can't function as a Senator anymore - and we're several years past the point where I'd have called it. I've read rumors that there's others in Congress who are less visibly having similar problems too.

Herschel Walker should not be given any public facing elected official type role. I'm basing this on his current words and actions and my brief experiences in person with him almost 15 years ago.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 26 August 2022 - 06:53 PM

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#13240 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 27 August 2022 - 02:40 PM

'Legal experts agree former president likely to be indicted

Many legal experts appeared stunned Friday afternoon upon reading the FBI's unsealed, redacted affidavit[...]

Now, many are saying Donald Trump will be indicted, and DOJ has been building an airtight case against the former president across several violations of federal law.

[...] "[...] when the FBI reviewed the classified docs in the 15 boxes, they determine what looked like Trump's handwriting on them."

"[...] none of Trump's usual excuses are going to work this time,"[...]

Even former Trump attorney Alan Dershowitz has "said that the unsealed affidavit supporting the FBI's search of Mar-a-Lago gives the Justice Department enough evidence to indict the former president," [...]

Former Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, John Brennan[...] agreed.
"I do believe that there are going to be multiple charges that are going to result from what we have now seen happening at Mar-a-Lago."'

'None of Trump's usual excuses are going to work': Legal experts agree former president likely to be indicted


If he's indicted before the midterms, it might help Republican turn-out (of course the same people chanting 'lock her up!' would be inflamed about this)....

A convicted felon can't vote, but can still run for (and become) president. Even from prison. It's been done. (Well, not the 'becoming president while in prison' part....)

Can a Convicted Felon Run for President?


'close Trump ally and Fox News host Sean Hannity [...] "If they think that they're going to somehow [...] prevent him from running from office, well they obviously have not read something called the Constitution," [...] "Being a felon is not a disqualification."'

Hannity Says Felons Can Run for President as DOJ Investigates Trump

So Hannity apparently said 'running from office'? That's sort of hilarious. Maybe he was thinking of 'running from prison'?

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 27 August 2022 - 02:40 PM

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