[Abyss]

Malankazooie, on 03 May 2022 - 08:09 PM, said:

So, any guesses on who the leaker was? I've read outgoing Breyer. I guess the leak is supposed to be an egregious breach of SCOTUS protocol (and is a first).

Also, the word of the day is "codify." What would that accomplish? What criteria would have to be met? Take me to law school, oh nerdy wonky law experts.

There's a fascinating running theory that a right wing judge leaked it so the media cycle could spin up early and expend some of the oppositional energy, while signaling to the red states to be ready.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Abyss, on 03 May 2022 - 09:20 PM, said:

Malankazooie, on 03 May 2022 - 08:09 PM, said:

So, any guesses on who the leaker was? I've read outgoing Breyer. I guess the leak is supposed to be an egregious breach of SCOTUS protocol (and is a first).

Also, the word of the day is "codify." What would that accomplish? What criteria would have to be met? Take me to law school, oh nerdy wonky law experts.

There's a fascinating running theory that a right wing judge leaked it so the media cycle could spin up early and expend some of the oppositional energy, while signaling to the red states to be ready.

'would make perfect sense for a conservative justice to leak this [...] if [...] one of the five votes was still on the fence to pressure that fence-sitter to stay on the team. [...] it might preempt any sort of last-minute squishiness, as Roberts apparently experienced in the Obamacare decision. The message would be: We've gone this far, and now all we have to do is the final step. If you back down now, everybody will know that you went soft and you will be a pariah among conservatives even worse than Roberts was after Obamacare.

[...] It turns attention away from the monumental—and likely to be deeply unpopular—ruling itself, and toward what conservatives are portraying as a dastardly and corrupt breaking of the norms. On her show, for instance, Ingraham complained that "the protesters are enraged at that leaked ruling from Politico tonight regarding Roe v. Wade—they're outraged not about the leak, they're outraged about what's in the decision." If the attention can be turned to the protesters, and not the ruling overturning Roe in the most forceful terms possible—which polls have consistently showed the public is against—then that is a political victory for those who realize how unpopular the stance is with the general public.'

Supreme Court leaker: four theories of what actually happened with the Roe opinion. (slate.com)

Could also be an attempt to influence the primaries coming up in a few weeks... based on whatever assumptions the leaker may have about the races they wanted to influence. Could think areas where the primary voters are ardently anti-abortion will see it as a win for the Trumpists or for the religious far right... or skew towards more moderate conservatives. Or give advantage to progressives in the Democratic primary. Or increase turnout....

[Gwynn ap Nudd]

QuickTidal, on 03 May 2022 - 06:31 PM, said:

Abyss, on 03 May 2022 - 06:09 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 03 May 2022 - 05:35 PM, said:

Abyss, on 03 May 2022 - 05:03 PM, said:

3. Red states and borderline states where Republicans are in power pass sweeping anti-abortion laws

Apparently 22 (!!) of the States have laws that fucking TRIGGER the minute SCOTUS overturns RvW.

That's a planning level that is despicable.

They've been waiting and planning for years for this.

Yep. Hell, McConnell's refusal of Merrick Garland is and was ALL about this exact issue.

I actually disagree on McConnell. He is the archetype of the cynical politician, not a die hard social conservative. IMO he would rather the court followed Robert's lead and chipped away at abortion rights, so that Republicans could show the base there was progress while still leaving overturning Roe and Casey as a turn out motivator.

[Gwynn ap Nudd]

Cause, on 03 May 2022 - 04:10 PM, said:

Am I being Naive in thinking that if this happens, the political backlash would be huge. 70% of Americans support abortion. Seventy Percent!

If they undo Roe how does every republican politician not get abndoned by voters, female voters especially untill they promise to fix it. Im no expert but I always thought a lot of the anti-abortion rhetoric was used to anchor the evangelical vote while knowing that Roe Vs Wade existed so they didnt have to actually follow through. This will be hugely unpopular. They will anchor the evangelical vote but lose female voters everywhere else.

Also I see Roberts has slammed the leak. Does that confirm that the judgement is definitely real? I also cant help but wonder if the conservative side leaked it themselves. Test the waters to see if the public would really allow it.

The house seats are so gerrymandered and so few are competitive, that most Republican representatives will be safe. Few senate seats are competitive either. Lots of polling also says that abortion rights are lower priority than the economy, especially with current inflation rates, and for some reason people still think Republicans manage the economy better. Of course people`s opinion on how important abortion access is may change when access goes away, but that probably won`t effect elections before 2024.

I agree with Carlin`s bit about Republicans on abortion. Republicans have long been pro-birth, not pro-life. They say they will protect you until the day you are born then, fuck it, you`re on your own.

https://www.washingt...women-roe-leak/

``A further irony is that many of the states that have enacted the most restrictive bans on abortion also spend the least money to provide health and economic benefits for expecting mothers and children once they’re born.

The numbers don’t lie when you look at state rankings on maternal morbidity, infant mortality, premature birth, child poverty, birth weight, access to health care, day care, food stamps and housing. Supreme Court Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr.’s draft opinion is about a case that comes from Mississippi — a state that ranks dead last in preterm births, neonatal mortality and overall child well-being.``

This post has been edited by Gwynn ap Nudd: 04 May 2022 - 02:49 AM

[Maark Abbott]

Oh, the forced birth camp are making everyone say "America what the fuck" again huh?

And I can't call them pro-life because - well, Quick already posted the relevant Carlin quote. They only care about forcing the unborn to be born. After that, who cares? That entire attitude is just alien to me.

[Tsundoku]

So it's "My body, my choice" when it comes to simple shit like wearing a mask, or getting a vaccine because fuck doing anything that I don't like - even the most minimal - because I have no consideration for others.

But all that goes out the window when it comes to women's bodies eh? Even in cases of rape, abuse, non-viability ...

Seriously America, 50% of you are fucked in the head. I imagine many scenarios of a world where almost every member of the Republican Party and their rampantly hypocritical evangelical base suddenly dropped dead (think of it as the exact opposite of the Rapture, more like a giant toilet flush), and in all of them the world ends up a far better place.

I've seen dog shits with more strength of character (moral fibre? ) than many of these people.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 06 May 2022 - 10:06 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Maark Abbott, on 04 May 2022 - 07:54 AM, said:

Oh, the forced birth camp are making everyone say "America what the fuck" again huh?

And I can't call them pro-life because - well, Quick already posted the relevant Carlin quote. They only care about forcing the unborn to be born. After that, who cares? That entire attitude is just alien to me.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Gwynn ap Nudd, on 04 May 2022 - 02:12 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 03 May 2022 - 06:31 PM, said:

Abyss, on 03 May 2022 - 06:09 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 03 May 2022 - 05:35 PM, said:

Abyss, on 03 May 2022 - 05:03 PM, said:

3. Red states and borderline states where Republicans are in power pass sweeping anti-abortion laws

Apparently 22 (!!) of the States have laws that fucking TRIGGER the minute SCOTUS overturns RvW.

That's a planning level that is despicable.

They've been waiting and planning for years for this.

Yep. Hell, McConnell's refusal of Merrick Garland is and was ALL about this exact issue.

I actually disagree on McConnell. He is the archetype of the cynical politician, not a die hard social conservative. IMO he would rather the court followed Robert's lead and chipped away at abortion rights, so that Republicans could show the base there was progress while still leaving overturning Roe and Casey as a turn out motivator.

McConnell was probably just using the abortion issue to 'justify' a naked power grab---what he really cares about is power and money (for himself and his donors, as well as his party).

The supposed moral urgency of 'they're murdering babies!' is intended to trump all other ethical considerations. Alito and the Trump justices didn't just lie, they lied under oath during their confirmation hearings, and their Federalist society backers knew they were lying.

QAnon, the 'grooming' smears, and extreme and apocalyptic rhetoric all serve similar functions. Though Trump 'helped' move the Republican party towards embracing naked power grabs. After all, if Trump was chosen by Go*, what more justification does he need?

Conspiracy theories ultimately give them greater control and flexibility---at least when belief among those with substantial power is insincere or pragmatic (perhaps semi-modular or dissociated rationalization) without impairing their ability to act on reality.

When they start embracing plausible deepfakes to 'prove' QAnon and the return of the age of miracles (with Trump's election being the first miracle, never mind his loss---and all the scientists continuing to 'lie' about the reality of miracles)...

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 04 May 2022 - 01:47 PM

[QuickTidal]

Why are these leopards are gnawing on my face?! ~Susan Collins

 exs6a06y9cx81.png (226.08K)
Number of downloads: 0

[Obdigore]

She knew what she was doing when she did it. Now shes trying to play the victim to not lose her seat.

Get rid of the lot of them.

A sad reaction from many democratic politicians is 'thank god, now us doing nothing we promised might not lose us seats in the next election'.

I'm so tired of the two major parties being Conservative and Regressive, while the Overton window slides to the right.

You can see the number of deaths from abortions, and total number of abortions, going down over the years since the 70s. Reproductive Health, Education, and Access to Contraceptives are the best way to decrease abortions, but these zealots and boomers are continuing to make this country a worse place so they can hold on to what power they've grasped over the years.

[QuickTidal]

Obdigore, on 04 May 2022 - 02:17 PM, said:

She knew what she was doing when she did it. Now shes trying to play the victim to not lose her seat.

Get rid of the lot of them.

Yep, I agree.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Gwynn ap Nudd, on 04 May 2022 - 02:45 AM, said:

Cause, on 03 May 2022 - 04:10 PM, said:

Am I being Naive in thinking that if this happens, the political backlash would be huge. 70% of Americans support abortion. Seventy Percent!

If they undo Roe how does every republican politician not get abndoned by voters, female voters especially untill they promise to fix it. Im no expert but I always thought a lot of the anti-abortion rhetoric was used to anchor the evangelical vote while knowing that Roe Vs Wade existed so they didnt have to actually follow through. This will be hugely unpopular. They will anchor the evangelical vote but lose female voters everywhere else.

Also I see Roberts has slammed the leak. Does that confirm that the judgement is definitely real? I also cant help but wonder if the conservative side leaked it themselves. Test the waters to see if the public would really allow it.

The house seats are so gerrymandered and so few are competitive, that most Republican representatives will be safe. Few senate seats are competitive either. Lots of polling also says that abortion rights are lower priority than the economy, especially with current inflation rates, and for some reason people still think Republicans manage the economy better. Of course people`s opinion on how important abortion access is may change when access goes away, but that probably won`t effect elections before 2024.

I agree with Carlin`s bit about Republicans on abortion. Republicans have long been pro-birth, not pro-life. They say they will protect you until the day you are born then, fuck it, you`re on your own.

https://www.washingt...women-roe-leak/

``A further irony is that many of the states that have enacted the most restrictive bans on abortion also spend the least money to provide health and economic benefits for expecting mothers and children once they're born.

The numbers don't lie when you look at state rankings on maternal morbidity, infant mortality, premature birth, child poverty, birth weight, access to health care, day care, food stamps and housing. Supreme Court Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr.'s draft opinion is about a case that comes from Mississippi — a state that ranks dead last in preterm births, neonatal mortality and overall child well-being.``

'Do Americans Support Abortion Rights? Depends on the State.

In the 13 states that have enacted so-called trigger laws[...] 43 percent of adults on average say abortion should be legal in most or all cases, while 52 percent say it should be illegal in most or all cases.

Voters are more divided in the dozen or so states that have pre-Roe bans on the books or that are expected to enact new abortion restrictions if Roe is overturned. In those states [...] 49 percent of adults say abortion should be legal in most or all cases, compared with 45 percent who say otherwise.

[...] national outcry over a court decision to overturn Roe might not carry many political consequences in the states where abortions could be immediately restricted. [...]

But in some states, a fight over new abortion restrictions might pose serious political risks for conservatives, perhaps especially in the seven mostly Republican-controlled states that are seen as most likely to enact new restrictions even though a majority of voters tend to support legal abortion.

The public's views on abortion are notoriously hard to measure, with large segments of the public often seeming to offer muddled or inconsistent answers. Polls consistently show that around two-thirds of Americans support the court's decision in Roe v. Wade and oppose overturning it. Yet just as many Americans say they support banning abortion in the second trimester, a step barred by Roe. [...] people split almost evenly over whether they consider themselves "pro-choice" or "pro-life."

Texans roughly split on abortion [...] But abortion was almost a nonissue in the state's primary in March[...] Only 39 percent of Texans said the state's abortion laws should be "less strict" in a poll in February, several months after the passage of the law, which effectively bans abortion after around six weeks of pregnancy.

Abortion-rights advocates might be on more favorable political terrain in the more traditionally competitive Midwestern states. A modest majority of voters say abortion should be mostly legal [...]

It's unclear if the abortion issue will be enough to redraw the political map. [...] predominantly white working-class voters who swung [...] to [...] Trump in [...] 2016 [...] tended to back abortion rights.'

Do Americans Support Abortion Rights? Depends on the State. - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

[Cause]

Obdigore, on 04 May 2022 - 02:17 PM, said:

You can see the number of deaths from abortions, and total number of abortions, going down over the years since the 70s. Reproductive Health, Education, and Access to Contraceptives are the best way to decrease abortions, but these zealots and boomers are continuing to make this country a worse place so they can hold on to what power they've grasped over the years.

I read an article last night which taught me that many of these whackjobs consider many forms of contraceptives such as birth control pills, IUDs amongst others to be abortifacients. Condoms are okay for some reason.

I know its political suicide but I want to see someone argue that banning abortion will add billions to the deficit.

This post has been edited by Cause: 04 May 2022 - 04:03 PM

[QuickTidal]

They should regulate mandatory Vasectomies in the States....which are reversible... for every male....and fucking WATCH the same assholes trying to control women's bodies with forced births turn their cloaks QUICK to "my body my choice"....

[Malankazooie]

The SCOTUS term typically goes into mid/late June and then they break until October, right? Is it expected this ruling will come down this term? Just spit-balling some scenarios in my head in how the 2022 midterm election will be impacted based on when it happens.

This post has been edited by Malankazooie: 04 May 2022 - 05:41 PM

[Maark Abbott]

New observation: America is run by the Bene Tleilax. Thoughts?

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

I've been growing more horrified throughout the week with this move in America, but I read something last night that I think made it hit all the harder.

You cannot take organs from a body without the person being on an organ donor register, even though those organs may save lives. However, they feel there's nothing wrong with controlling what living women do with their bodes (and that's ignoring the complete lack of support for said women once you've effectively forced them to give birth to an unwanted child).

Not the same situation, but it does seem that you have more right to a choice of what happens to your body as a corpse than you do as a living woman.

[QuickTidal]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 05 May 2022 - 08:15 AM, said:

I've been growing more horrified throughout the week with this move in America, but I read something last night that I think made it hit all the harder.

You cannot take organs from a body without the person being on an organ donor register, even though those organs may save lives. However, they feel there's nothing wrong with controlling what living women do with their bodes (and that's ignoring the complete lack of support for said women once you've effectively forced them to give birth to an unwanted child).

Not the same situation, but it does seem that you have more right to a choice of what happens to your body as a corpse than you do as a living woman.

Yep, it's never been about fetuses or "babies"....it's ALWAYS been about controlling women bodies.

[Abyss]

The (other) part that scares me... the abundance of 'we bothered to show up and and voted for Biden and look what happened anyways the dems are awful too i'm never voting again aaaaaah' sentiment.

[Obdigore]

Abyss, on 05 May 2022 - 01:37 PM, said:

The (other) part that scares me... the abundance of 'we bothered to show up and and voted for Biden and look what happened anyways the dems are awful too i'm never voting again aaaaaah' sentiment.

While some of that might be real, most is astroturf.

Notice how the GOP isn't celebrating getting rid of Freedoms? Because they know this is wildly unpopular. Something like 30% of the nation supports abortion restrictions/bans.

As far as I'm concerned, if the rule of law was equal, each and every one of these abortion bans would be challenge and struck down due to freedom of religion for Islam, Jewish, and Satanic religions. Instead they are going to be upheld by SCOTUS because (insert whatever lies and bullshit you can stretch to try to make it justified here).

Don't forget they want to come for a couple other rulings, specifically around same sex marriage, homosexuality, and according to at least one senator, interracial marriage. These are the kinds of people evangelicals are. Fascists who want to force everyone to live by the rules they decree, but don't have to live by themselves. Technically, according to this ruling, any 'freedom' you have that wasn't granted specifically by the founding fathers, or later added to the constitution, shouldn't exist. This is a wild about-face, shaking the very foundations of what the centuries of legal documentation/tradition is built on.

This post has been edited by Obdigore: 05 May 2022 - 02:16 PM