[QuickTidal]

As a non-American, this was informative.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

QuickTidal, on 30 September 2020 - 11:53 AM, said:

Main takeaways that I noted.

- I'm disgusted that there is no mic silencing. I bet it's because the campaigns didn't agree to it...but still, it sould be standard.

'After Biden Trump Debate Chaos, Debate Commission Adds "New Tools to Maintain Order"

[...] The commission has not yet revealed what these additional tools or strategies will be ahead of the next presidential debate, scheduled for October 15 in Miami, Florida.'

https://www.newsweek...n-order-1535416

Hopefully they will have time to develop mic silencing technology by then....

And have police on site to deal with Trump's family or other supporters in the audience if they refuse to wear masks again (they wore masks to get into the venue but took them off once seated and refused to put them back on when asked, even though the venue rules stipulated that audience members would wear masks at all times---police could at least arrest them for trespassing if they refuse to wear masks or leave). (I don't think Trump's Secret Service would intervene... at least if it's the police and not just security guards.)

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 30 September 2020 - 10:22 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'A Debate Mute Button Has Been Used on a Loudmouthed Republican Before

And it could be used on Trump.

[...] the Commission on Presidential Debates, which organizes the events, plans to make changes to the debate format to get candidates to abide by the rules, including “cutting off a candidate’s microphone if they violate the rules.”

Is a mute button all we need to bring some civility to the presidential debates? No, obviously. “As a practical matter, even if the president’s microphone had been shut, he still could have continued to interrupt, and it might well have been picked up on Biden’s microphone, and it still would have disrupted the proceedings in the hall,” [said] Chris Wallace, who moderated Tuesday’s debate[...] and there have been doubts that Trump’s campaign would even agree to such a rule change. (Typically, the campaigns negotiate over the debate rules.) CBS is reporting, though, that the Commission on Presidential Debates is putting its foot down and any new rules would not be subject to negotiation. It’s unclear how exactly this will work or whether the interrupting will still be an issue for the next debate, which will be formatted like a town hall. (The third debate, however, was originally planned to have the same format as the first.)

[...] the idea actually has worked in state-level debates. [...] a number of Wisconsin senatorial and gubernatorial debates that had mic-cutting policies in place.

[...] Geisler has cut the mic on a candidate once before, when former Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker ran past his time while discussing the minimum wage during his first 2014 debate with challenger Mary Burke. Geisler warned Walker twice that he was over time, but he continued to speak. His mic then abruptly shut off and the moderator was able to talk over him to move the debate forward.

Though she hasn’t had to actually use it much, Geisler says that the very threat of the kill switch and the unflattering optics of having your mic cut helps to keep candidates in line. “It is so dramatic on television when a person’s lips are flapping and sound isn’t coming out, or when the camera leaves them,” she said. “They realize that there is not a lot else they can do other than abide by the rules or walk off.” [...] She also suggested that it might’ve been helpful to train the camera only on the person who was supposed to be speaking, rather than showing them side by side and allowing for more interruption.'

https://slate.com/ne...ill-switch.html

Not sure how valid Wallace's concern about Biden's mic picking up Trump really would have been with their setup, but that's easy enough to fix with the right choice of microphone. Assuming Trump doesn't go over and try to shout into Biden's microphone / steal the microphone from him....

If his mic is cut off but he thinks he's still in the camera view, Trump might try to telegraph what he's saying with his lips. I can imagine him mouthing 'hoax', 'fake news' (or worse)... shaking his head vigorously, making exaggerated facial expressions, and (even more) exaggerated hand gestures, flailing his arms all around....

[Cause]

POTUS is positive for covid 19!

Given his age could be bad. Politically as well it can’t be good for him. Proof he should have taken it more seriously? Proof at the least it’s real to many of his followers?

[Malankazooie]

I would think this means no more debates with Biden, which I'm fine with.

I wonder if the Pence/Harris debate will be impacted.

[Primateus]

Malankazooie, on 02 October 2020 - 05:28 AM, said:

I would think this means no more debates with Biden, which I'm fine with.

I wonder if the Pence/Harris debate will be impacted.

If I was a suspicious man, I would say this comes very conveniently after his piss poor debate performance, giving him an excuse to avoid further meetings with Biden. But that would be a callous argument, considering the million plus people who have already died.

[HoosierDaddy]

Whelp.

What a year. 3 months left to go and this feels like a decade already.

[Tsundoku]

Cause, on 02 October 2020 - 05:25 AM, said:

POTUS is positive for covid 19!

I would have been in a conundrum - which thread to put this in? USA Politics? COVID-19? What's making you happy right now? ...

Yep, I said it, and I meant it. Not apologising for karma.



I also wonder how "close" he was to Hope Hicks ...

Who did Melania get it from? It's not like she goes near him very often. Or by choice.

I hope this doesn't get him any sort of sympathy though.

https://www.news.com...ceca3eef23c6438

"According to US media, the list of people potentially exposed includes: Ivanka Trump and her husband Jared Kushner, Donald Trump Jr and his girlfriend Kimberly Guilfoyle, Eric Trump and his wife Lara, Tiffany Trump, White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany, adviser Stephen Miller, former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani, White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, Congressman Jim Jordan, Trump campaign manager Bill Stepien and criminal justice reform advocate Alice Marie Johnson."

No idea about Alice Marie Johnson, but I am genuine when I say I am crossing my fingers for the rest.

Already trying to spin it may have been from contact with military, emergency services etc. Yeah right.

"Speaking to Hannity, Mr Trump said that it was difficult for him and those close to him to avoid the virus since so many others, including members of the military, try to interact with them.

“It’s very hard when you’re with soldiers, when you are with airmen, when you’re with the Marines, and the police officers, I’m with them so much. And when they come over to you, it’s hard to say, ‘stay back, stay back.’ You know, it’s a tough kind of a situation, it’s a terrible thing,” he said."

I really hope someone has held on to his sample, to establish who he contracted it from ...

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 02 October 2020 - 06:31 AM

[Aptorian]

It's kind of brilliant timing that Trump gets Corona now, whether or not they're just making it up.

He doesn't have to appear on TV. Insulating him from too much exposure besides tweets. It also creates a rally around the flag effect, it might get him a few pity votes but more importantly it shields him from criticism. If he gets really sick it would so so insensitive to talk about taxes and neo-nazies when the President is fighting for his life, bla. bla. Etc.

I hate this timeline.

[Tsundoku]

Yeah, I'm afraid that in this modern world where the bad guys win, there is a pretty decent possibility that all it will do is end up being beneficial to him and his.

[Terez]

Aptorian, on 02 October 2020 - 07:14 AM, said:

It's kind of brilliant timing that Trump gets Corona now, whether or not they're just making it up.

He doesn't have to appear on TV. Insulating him from too much exposure besides tweets. It also creates a rally around the flag effect, it might get him a few pity votes but more importantly it shields him from criticism. If he gets really sick it would so so insensitive to talk about taxes and neo-nazies when the President is fighting for his life, bla. bla. Etc.

I hate this timeline.

fwiw it's extremely unlikely that he made it up. His vanity wouldn't allow it; he sees sickness as a weakness. When Hope Hicks tested positive, word somehow got out to reporters or else we wouldn't know about this at all. They didn't announce it, and people who were in close contact with her pretended like nothing had happened even though they knew they were exposed. Trump met with donors in New Jersey. The letter from his doctor is dated October 1st but they didn't announce it until after midnight on the 2nd. Trump had almost certainly already tested positive when he tweeted earlier that he was waiting on his results because he has rapid testing in the WH and if he had tested negative on that he would have said so.

[Primateus]

Terez, on 02 October 2020 - 07:21 AM, said:

Aptorian, on 02 October 2020 - 07:14 AM, said:

It's kind of brilliant timing that Trump gets Corona now, whether or not they're just making it up.

He doesn't have to appear on TV. Insulating him from too much exposure besides tweets. It also creates a rally around the flag effect, it might get him a few pity votes but more importantly it shields him from criticism. If he gets really sick it would so so insensitive to talk about taxes and neo-nazies when the President is fighting for his life, bla. bla. Etc.

I hate this timeline.

fwiw it's extremely unlikely that he made it up. His vanity wouldn't allow it; he sees sickness as a weakness. When Hope Hicks tested positive, word somehow got out to reporters or else we wouldn't know about this at all. They didn't announce it, and people who were in close contact with her pretended like nothing had happened even though they knew they were exposed. Trump met with donors in New Jersey. The letter from his doctor is dated October 1st but they didn't announce it until after midnight on the 2nd. Trump had almost certainly already tested positive when he tweeted earlier that he was waiting on his results because he has rapid testing in the WH and if he had tested negative on that he would have said so.

Yeah, but, Bone spurs?

[Terez]

That was a long time ago, and he didn't have the eyes of the whole world on him at the time.

[Maark Abbott]

Aptorian, on 02 October 2020 - 07:14 AM, said:

It's kind of brilliant timing that Trump gets Corona now, whether or not they're just making it up.

He doesn't have to appear on TV. Insulating him from too much exposure besides tweets. It also creates a rally around the flag effect, it might get him a few pity votes but more importantly it shields him from criticism. If he gets really sick it would so so insensitive to talk about taxes and neo-nazies when the President is fighting for his life, bla. bla. Etc.

I hate this timeline.

Much as with Boris Bloodhand, I have no doubt on the balance of probability that it's a crock of bollocks. Trump defeats the 'chye nar virus' and what message does that send to his supporters? It's no big deal and all hail our mighty bigliest president.

[QuickTidal]

To add in a shitty wrinkle...remember that his WHOLE fucking family came to the debate to sit in the audience and once inside they removed their masks and REFUSED to place them back on when asked repeatedly to do so....so they had clearly already been exposed, and were basically exposing everyone else in the room to the virus by not wearing their masks in a close quarters indoor setting.

A bunch of selfish fucking pieces of shit.

Also, what if he infected Jill or Joe Biden?

[Cause]

I think the embarrassment of the most screened person in America getting s virus he claims doesn’t exist would outweigh any sympathy vote or the possibility of ducking the debates

Also this is trump, I doubt he thinks he did a poor job and I doubt anyone could have convinced him

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Aptorian, on 02 October 2020 - 07:14 AM, said:

It's kind of brilliant timing that Trump gets Corona now, whether or not they're just making it up.

He doesn't have to appear on TV. Insulating him from too much exposure besides tweets. It also creates a rally around the flag effect, it might get him a few pity votes but more importantly it shields him from criticism. If he gets really sick it would so so insensitive to talk about taxes and neo-nazies when the President is fighting for his life, bla. bla. Etc.

I hate this timeline.

If he were an ordinary politician, maybe. But in Trump's case (especially after his debate performance hopefully reminded the public what he's like), I doubt it....

OTOH Bolsonaro is also belligerent and disdains weakness, but he became more popular than ever after he recovered. However, he also successfully took credit for extensive stimulus aid for poor people.

https://www.washingt...00f7_story.html

As with his signature on the stimulus checks, Trump is trying to do the same thing again:

'Thirty-five days before the election, food assistance boxes, doled out at food banks around the country, are coming with a surprise: a signed letter from President Trump. Anti-hunger advocates and food bank workers are outraged, saying the move violates the Hatch Act and compromises relationships with the food-insecure Americans they serve.

A letter in English and Spanish, on White House letterhead, exhorts needy Americans to wash hands and maintain social distance, closing with: "We will support Americans' recovery every step of the way. Together we will overcome this challenge, and our Nation will emerge from this crisis stronger than ever before." And then Trump's distinctive signature.

San Francisco-Marin Food Bank is removing the letters at distribution sites and asking any of the neighborhood pantries in their network that receive these boxes to do the same[...]

"We wouldn't put any third-party messaging in our boxes, and we wouldn't want anyone to think we are pushing a political message," she said.


[...] Greater Boston Food Bank, confirmed that these Coronavirus Food Assistance Program emergency food boxes contain a letter signed by Trump.
"It is our understanding that the [U.S. Agriculture Department] is requiring all CFAP-contracted vendors to include this letter in every CFAP food box," she said. "We've made it clear to our partners: We are not placing this letter in the box. We do not endorse any presidential candidate and have no connection to the letter and the inclusion of the letter in these boxes."'

https://www.washingt...ign-literature/

Trump will probably have to cancel the in-person rallies he loves (and which generate ample goodwill for him in flyover country) for the next two weeks. If he develops significant symptoms there's a good chance he won't speak in public, hopefully limiting his ability to fire up his base. OTOH a feverish Trump, brimming over with pent-up frustration and desperation, still has the potential for reckless tweets (though I'm not sure how aware most voters are of his tweets, or how seriously they take them).

'some of Trump's closest confidantes started fearing for his health as early as Wednesday. The report states that some Trump aides noticed he appeared to feel poorly that day and noted how exhausted he seemed—but they dismissed it as extreme fatigue from a relentless campaign schedule and Tuesday night's debate. Further to that, The New York Times reported that Trump has be displaying mild cold-like symptoms.'

https://www.thedaily...report?ref=home

'If there were enough time, the party would seek to put the name of its new candidate on the ballot in each state. There almost certainly would not be time to do this, particularly if the issue only arises two to three weeks from now. The states have various deadlines for when the parties must certify their candidates for the ballot. Those dates have passed. In theory, the RNC could go to court to seek an order permitting it to change the name of its candidate. But there simply would not be enough time to reprint ballots at that point. President Trump will almost certainly remain on the ballot, no matter what happens.'

https://www.washingt...hdraws-or-dies/

If Trump dies two weeks before the election, could Pence (or another Republican) potentially win as a write-in candidate? '9 states do not allow write-ins at all' though state legislatures could change that.

'Some states have no requirements for write-in candidates to be counted, some states will never count write-in candidates, but most states have specific criteria, which includes all write in candidates to register within their state by a certain date for the votes to be counted.'

Most of the deadlines seem to be October 20th or later. However:

'Arizona [...] September 24, 2020
Florida [...] September 15, 2020
[...] Pennsylvania: Always allowed'

Changing voting laws would *probably* be subject to gubernatorial veto. But:

'the legislature could decide to offer its own slate of electors by invoking Article II of the U.S. Constitution. That section grants state legislatures the right to designate the manner in which electors are selected.

[...]

Rep. Kevin Boyle (D., Phila.), minority chair of the House State Government Committee, said the GOP, in theory, could pass a resolution that doesn't require Gov. Tom Wolf's approval. That's what lawmakers in Florida considered doing in 2000 before the U.S. Supreme Court settled the contested presidential race.

"If they are trying to circumvent the governor, that's the form of legislative direction they would go on," Boyle said."'

So it may be debatable enough for the US Supreme Court to rule in their party's favor.

https://www.inquirer...p-20200925.html

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 02 October 2020 - 03:23 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

After doing a little more research, it seems that in the event of Trump's death state electors would probably be able to convert Trump votes to Pence votes, though the US Supreme Court would probably be the ultimate arbiter:

'"As a practical matter, if the parties have been vigilant, the electors should be extremely loyal to their political party. Even if the electors are formally bound by state law to vote for the dead candidate, I would expect them to cast their presidential vote for the vice-presidential nominee of that party."

[...] holding that states could bind electors to vote the way that the popular vote of the state goes.* In that case, Justice Elena Kagan's majority opinion actually discussed the issue in a footnote:

"[...] nothing in this opinion should be taken to permit the States to bind electors to a deceased candidate."'

https://slate.com/ne...ed-or-dies.html

And Biden tested negative today, though it hasn't been long enough since his exposure to Trump for a negative result to be extremely accurate.

https://www.nytimes....irus-biden.html

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 02 October 2020 - 06:49 PM

[Malankazooie]

Any impact this could have on the senate confirmation of Amy Coney Barrett? She had it over the summer and has recovered, but some republican senators could have it now, yeah? So what are the scenarios if they are sick during scheduled confirmation hearings?

This post has been edited by Malankazooie: 02 October 2020 - 07:03 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

They probably care enough about the Supreme Court nomination to find a way around it. Even if that means remote voting.

'Trump has taken an experimental drug treatment for his newly diagnosed case of COVID-19

[...] Trump has "received a single 8 gram dose of Regeneron's polyclonal antibody cocktail." Conley referred to this as a "precautionary measure." He said the president took the dose "without incident," and noted that the president is also taking "zinc, vitamin D, famotidine, melatonin, and a daily aspirin."

[...] Trump's symptoms are more extensive than has been officially revealed.

["]has a fever, congestion and a cough, two people close to him say."'

https://www.alternet...-true-symptoms/

'White House COVID Testing Riddled With Holes, Insiders Say

The surprise, one said, is that it took this long for the president to get the virus.'

https://www.thedaily...rs-say?ref=home

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 02 October 2020 - 08:53 PM