[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

 Abyss, on 17 May 2012 - 08:24 PM, said:

Did anyone feel the Seguleh/Moranth history felt a bit random?

It does explain the Moranth's dislike for the free cities of Genabackis as of GotM.

And i liked how it all played out. It was just the fact of the relationship that i thought seemed a little random.

- Abyss, randomly.

It also explains the armor the Moranth wear. If you know your enemy is a finesse swordsman that aims for unprotected ligaments and arteries you would wanna design some sort of plate armor that takes away all those openings.

[the broken]

 Jean-Claude Van tiam, on 14 June 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

 the broken, on 12 June 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

Something occurred to me about Miner being supposedly better than Tool.


Miner's only injury is broken legs, which he has replaced. He's otherwise intact. Tool has 300,000 years of combat damage. Palla is a far better fighter,she deals significant damage, but she's fighting an undamaged corpse. Mok fights a body with hundreds of years of wear and tear. He wouldn't need to deal as much damage to win.

Your concept works except for the fact that hes undead. Unless its something physical, like Onrack losing an arm, then it doesnt affect them. They have no eyes or ears for example yet can still see fine. We see that the Seguleh fighting style focuses on ligaments as one of its main forms of attack but this line of attack does not work against the Imass as its locomotion is sustained by ancient magic. Thus Tool is not severely more damaged as he hasnt had his legs ripped off. Also from what I remember from TTH the Miners injuries were done to him when he was mortal and he was accidentally absorbed into the Ritual.

Tool was thus a better fighter anyway but now has 300 000 years more experience.

It's easier to slice up something that's been hit by a hammer a few times first. If some Jaghut fractured Tool's arm 100,000 years ago, it would be easier for Mok to break it than if the bone was whole.

[tiam]

 the broken, on 16 June 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

 Jean-Claude Van tiam, on 14 June 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

 the broken, on 12 June 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

Something occurred to me about Miner being supposedly better than Tool.


Miner's only injury is broken legs, which he has replaced. He's otherwise intact. Tool has 300,000 years of combat damage. Palla is a far better fighter,she deals significant damage, but she's fighting an undamaged corpse. Mok fights a body with hundreds of years of wear and tear. He wouldn't need to deal as much damage to win.

Your concept works except for the fact that hes undead. Unless its something physical, like Onrack losing an arm, then it doesnt affect them. They have no eyes or ears for example yet can still see fine. We see that the Seguleh fighting style focuses on ligaments as one of its main forms of attack but this line of attack does not work against the Imass as its locomotion is sustained by ancient magic. Thus Tool is not severely more damaged as he hasnt had his legs ripped off. Also from what I remember from TTH the Miners injuries were done to him when he was mortal and he was accidentally absorbed into the Ritual.

Tool was thus a better fighter anyway but now has 300 000 years more experience.

It's easier to slice up something that's been hit by a hammer a few times first. If some Jaghut fractured Tool's arm 100,000 years ago, it would be easier for Mok to break it than if the bone was whole.

Again this is based on the idea that their locomotion is powered by their bone and ligaments which isnt the case. They have an essence of Tellan holding them together. They do not need eyes to see, their ligaments have all been hacked to pieces etc yet they continue. We see in MOI that Tool is surrounded by swordsman and hacked to pieces by Seerdomin yet he simply turned to dust and reappeared. Even if the bone is broken it does not impede the Imass. For example the female Imass in MOI who has 3 two handed blades sticking out of her middle has probably had her sine severed yet is fine.

It really is a case of magic holding them together.

[Sinisdar Toste]

yet there is a threshold beyond which the ritual fails and they become incapacitated. perhaps this has something to do with the individual t'lan's force of will. with tool, his will is strong - he's the first sword. he probably has a much higher threshold (if this is an accurate supposition in the first place), than others. the point is, there is a certain level of physical damage beyond which a t'lan imass will cease to be mobile.

[Abyss]

 Sinisdar Toste, on 18 June 2012 - 01:17 AM, said:

yet there is a threshold beyond which the ritual fails ... the point is, there is a certain level of physical damage beyond which a t'lan imass will cease to be mobile.

But as we saw with Onrack and the Miner, there are ways to repair themselves, albeit not widely used by the rest of the T'lan Imass.

[Sinisdar Toste]

 Abyss, on 18 June 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

 Sinisdar Toste, on 18 June 2012 - 01:17 AM, said:

yet there is a threshold beyond which the ritual fails ... the point is, there is a certain level of physical damage beyond which a t'lan imass will cease to be mobile.

But as we saw with Onrack and the Miner, there are ways to repair themselves, albeit not widely used by the rest of the T'lan Imass.

certainly, you just need the proper faculties. onrack had arm enough to give himself another, but the miner, and the t'lan that tulas shorn meets in tCG had to wait for thousands upon thousands of years for the ladys pull (always loved how the harllo/miner meeting and the shorn meeting contrasted with each other, which is the only reason i brought it up, since that t'lan was just a head on a stick).

my wording where you've quoted is confusing, i now realize. the ritual does not fail in the same way the t'lans body can fail. they still exist inside their heads on sticks, or on cliffsides and what have you. the ritual keeps them from truly dying, but there is nothing that can be done to put them back together. it seems only olar ethil has that power, if that's what we saw her doing with tool.

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 18 June 2012 - 10:30 PM

[Deck of Dragons]

I started reading this after Midnight Tides. I should have listened to you guys about reading orders...MASSIVE spoilers within the intro alone.

Spoiler

RAKE dies??? Holy Crap!!! And it probably happens 2 or 3 books away for me.

Of course I read Return of the Crimson Guard before Deadhouse Gates and had similar WTF?

Spoiler

Laseen gets iced!!! lol It probably will not be referenced for a few more books in the main series

[worry]

YAH U R Dum!!!!!!!

[Abyss]

 Sinisdar Toste, on 18 June 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

my wording where you've quoted is confusing, i now realize. the ritual does not fail in the same way the t'lans body can fail. they still exist inside their heads on sticks, or on cliffsides and what have you. the ritual keeps them from truly dying, but there is nothing that can be done to put them back together. it seems only olar ethil has that power, if that's what we saw her doing with tool.

At least, none that we've seen.
It seems to me that if a semi-intact Imass can incorporate the dead bones of another Imass or even a dead animal, then a sufficiently willful head could incorporate a new body.

 Deck of Dragons, on 29 August 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

I started reading this after Midnight Tides. I should have listened to you guys about reading orders...MASSIVE spoilers within the intro alone.

Spoiler

RAKE dies??? Holy Crap!!! And it probably happens 2 or 3 books away for me.

Of course I read Return of the Crimson Guard before Deadhouse Gates and had similar WTF?

Spoiler

Laseen gets iced!!! lol It probably will not be referenced for a few more books in the main series

wow.... epic level spoiler avoidance fail. You might as well also know that Sorry is the Queen of Dreams, Karsa killed Asmodean, Anomander is Luke's father and Fiddler is Kaiser Soze.

[Gothos]

I was pleasantly surprised by this book, I liked it very much. With this and Stonewielder I think I'm starting to like ICE better than SE. He seems a lot less cagey with secrets within secrets within secrets within secrets... I pretty much agree with most of what Abyss said about it.

Also, my personal tiny theory - the mercenary brothers and Fisher - what IS their homeland, Jacuruku? Assail? They seem properly badass. But I've been out of touch with the series for a while and I don't know if that has been said somewhere already...

[D'rek]

 Gothos, on 26 November 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

I was pleasantly surprised by this book, I liked it very much. With this and Stonewielder I think I'm starting to like ICE better than SE. He seems a lot less cagey with secrets within secrets within secrets within secrets... I pretty much agree with most of what Abyss said about it.

Also, my personal tiny theory - the mercenary brothers and Fisher - what IS their homeland, Jacuruku? Assail? They seem properly badass. But I've been out of touch with the series for a while and I don't know if that has been said somewhere already...

RotCG said the "Lost Brothers" were from Assail (Assail proper, futher north than Nabraja and Bael). I don't think it's ever been said where Fisher came from (if anywhere, or if it even still exists).

This post has been edited by D'rek: 03 December 2012 - 03:54 PM

[Vaddon Ra]

Now I started loving this book, as I started loving Blood and Bone...but I felt that both ended a little too soon with not enough of...well enough.

Mok not being in this really annoyed me. He was broken....Ok....but during the Pannion war he won his fight with Tool and at the end of the book MOI he seemed pretty much ok and was still belligerent to Envy in trying to challenge Rake for the honour of his people....then in TTH he's not there but Senu and Therule are and they seem pretty emotionally fine except smitten by Envy (but hey, no surprise there right

So OST kicks off, the seg get a nice story quest which I loved and thought was the best part of the book. Their fights with malaz could have been a bit better, less just, "oh they massacred them quickly and then get bombed... = over and more of an actual strategic assault.

I didnt care at all about the moranth... iv never been too interested in their secrets and in all the books they turn up in the emphasis in the writing has never been put on making them REALLY exciting, unlike the seg

I though Moons Spawn story was ok but forgettable

The Tyrant actually confused me...so it's a spirit in the mask right? Like in GOTM how raest can possess anything and channel his power thru them, is that right? ok cool XD

But hey I loved the seguleh mission, I loved the dassem story. I just wish they'd seen him fight, was he better than Lo? Than Jan? AND WHERE IS MOK

and more importantly

WHERE IS KARSA ORLONG?????

he lives next door to Daru???? XD

Ah well, I think it needs re read now, it was pretty good if just for the seguleh

but please ICE

bring back MOK

someone....please

[Abyss]

 Vaddon Ra, on 14 March 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

Now I started loving this book, as I started loving Blood and Bone...but I felt that both ended a little too soon with not enough of...well enough.

Mok not being in this really annoyed me. He was broken....Ok....but during the Pannion war he won his fight with Tool and at the end of the book MOI he seemed pretty much ok and was still belligerent to Envy in trying to challenge Rake for the honour of his people....then in TTH he's not there but Senu and Therule are and they seem pretty emotionally fine except smitten by Envy (but hey, no surprise there right

Only Thurule appears in TtH, answering the door for Envy. we haven't seen Senu since MoI.

As for Mok, exactly what broke him is hard to say... either Kilava denying him his moment of triumph against Tool, or Toc's sacrifice, being an act of utter bravery by someone Mok has dismissed and beneath notice.

Quote

...The Tyrant actually confused me...so it's a spirit in the mask right? Like in GOTM how raest can possess anything and channel his power thru them, is that right? ok cool XD

Yes, but a human spirit, not Jaghut. Maybe.

[the broken]

Quote

As for Mok, exactly what broke him is hard to say... either Kilava denying him his moment of triumph against Tool, or Toc's sacrifice, being an act of utter bravery by someone Mok has dismissed and beneath notice.

That or losing Thurule to Envy and knowing there's nothing he can do about it. That has to sting, especially if he's smart enough to realise it's only a matterof time before she gets bored and either casts him aside or kills him.

[Abyss]

 the broken, on 14 March 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

Quote

As for Mok, exactly what broke him is hard to say... either Kilava denying him his moment of triumph against Tool, or Toc's sacrifice, being an act of utter bravery by someone Mok has dismissed and beneath notice.

That or losing Thurule to Envy and knowing there's nothing he can do about it. That has to sting, especially if he's smart enough to realise it's only a matterof time before she gets bored and either casts him aside or kills him.

Given how the Seguleh treat Thurule in OST, i doubt it was that.

[the broken]

 Abyss, on 15 March 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

 the broken, on 14 March 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

Quote

As for Mok, exactly what broke him is hard to say... either Kilava denying him his moment of triumph against Tool, or Toc's sacrifice, being an act of utter bravery by someone Mok has dismissed and beneath notice.

That or losing Thurule to Envy and knowing there's nothing he can do about it. That has to sting, especially if he's smart enough to realise it's only a matterof time before she gets bored and either casts him aside or kills him.

Given how the Seguleh treat Thurule in OST, i doubt it was that.

Different Seguleh. They may be from the same island, that doesn't meant they think exactly alike. Urko Crust and Korbolo Dom are both Napan Fists, but they have a very different attitude to the men under their command. We see in OST that Seguleh aren't immune from emotions and affection for their friends...and isn't it mentioned in MOI that Mok and Thurule are brothers? When Tool fight Thurule, Mok is talking to Envy about how Rake killed the Seventh, and says something like "Those who failed deserve no sympathy."
Toc says "Does that include your brother?" which is a strange thing to say if you have no reason to believe it.
And while the 'those who failed' line might indicate a lack of sympathy, Thurule didn't lose a duel, he was suborned by sorcery.