[Abyss]

A FEW MID-READ POSTS, THEN MY THOUGHTS ON THE WHOLE BOOK AT #9 BELOW.

Am enjoying the dragonfuck out of OST and will post a few running thoughts here as i go. I'll move the thread to the OST forum once done with the book.

Obviously there will be SPOILERS for OST and all prior books

These will be MY SPOILERS. MINE! ALL MINE, MY PRECIOUSSSSS.... ahem...

Please DO NOT post spoilers beyond the point i post i have read to.

[Abyss]

First 200 pages....


I have to admit it's really really nice to be back in Darujhistan. SE did great things with this setting and it's a total kick to revisit it.


Ok Red is Antsy, no real surprise there. The SPAWNS setting is interesting - we knoew Moon's Spawn was big but fucking islands... then again... Drift Avalii...

Quite a bit of Seguleh insite there... 'clans/families'... that surprised me. And politicking and alliances even within the structure of the Agatii... interesting. More 'civilized' than i expected.

The Second and Third's duelwas awesome. I love how 2 took out 3 with such a subtle wound.

Ah Dassem... dude just cannot take a vacation. Is it just me or did the 'lowly servant with a broom' thing channel some martial arts flic?

Aragan's back! And fatter than ever!!!

Wait wait wait.... Mok was WHAT??!?!?!!? BROKEN?????? Geez... that one paragraph was utterly shocking and appropriate. Nicely written.

Seguleh migration! OOOooooooo....

The gold mask thing was nicely done. I especially liked the captain of the guard holding out for hours and the acknowledgement between him and scholar before he died.

Antsy partnering up with Topper = PURE BUDDY WIN!!!!

Heh... giant in the revine...

Ooo... Scillara turned into a total bitch. Poor Barathol, that just sucks. so much for Cotillion's prediction back in HoC that she would turn out to be important.

Rallick visiting the Finnest House = Awesome.
Chatting with Raest = MORE awesome.
...while Raest is playing poker with Miner Imass from TtH and dead Tufty sits on the table..... = PERFECT!!!!!!!!
Could not have loved that scene more.

Am totally enjoying the Sall/Lo/Yusek storyline. Nice insight into the Seguleh but Yusek is turning out to be surprisingly entertaining as well. The bit where they carve their way into the warlord's valley, for all that we didn't actually see anything, was great.

I like all the little references to the Pannion Domin war.... Yusek's family escaped Bastion, someone mentioned having a few stray Urdomen around, 'crazier than one a them Tenecowri'.

Dammit SE started the teasers with Scorch and Leff back in TtH ICE YOU TEASING BASTARD TELL US MORE!

[Illuyankas]

You are now aware that the mask is an evil BAFTA.

This post has been edited by Greymanekas: 09 February 2012 - 03:34 PM

[Abyss]

Greymanekas, on 09 February 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

You are now aware that the mask is an evil BAFTA.

One of those big hairy yeti things from THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK?

[Illuyankas]

Abyss, on 09 February 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

Greymanekas, on 09 February 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

You are now aware that the mask is an evil BAFTA.

One of those big hairy yeti things from THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK?

No, a BAFTA.



And here is the physical thing with one of the prestigious winners.

[Abyss]

I always suspected the big green statue on Otataral island was just an Academy Award (an 'Oscar') that had tarnished.

[Abyss]

p375ish...


Envy you snotty ascendent asshole.

Fisher breaking Taya's arm... did NOT expect that.

Krul is a WHAT????

Wait... Malacki ISN'T Topper??? I'm almost dissappointed. Unless it's Topper flitting back and forth thru the Imperial Warren or something.

On the other hand, Topper working with Picker and co is almost better than Topper working with Antsy.

Semi-relatedly, while at root it's a basic dungeon crawl, Antsy and co's plotline is becoming one of my favorites.

Bendan is not quite as interesting as the 'basic malazan soldier' characters ICE has given us before. The "Butcher" thing was funny tho'.

I'm enjoying the storylines around the various Malazan armies running around Genabackis, tho i'm wishing we got a bit more development.
Fist K'ess and Capt Fes'el aren't bad tho'.

Seguleh just showed up in darujhistan and dammit Jan you wimp!

Re Lo and Sall... ouch. Seguleh do NOT look well on losing anything ever.

The Seguleh First's mask was taken by Rake??? How did THAT happen???

I liked the scene between Taya and Vorcan... said a lot about the characters. And Studlock... you wouldn't know where to stab him.... HA!

I totally enjoy the way Scorch and Leff just keep moving into the middle of things. They are either ascendent or really good at faking it. TtH left both ways open.

Rallick just realized Kruppe is making a play. Boo-yah!

Torvald is headed to the Moranth... oh, this should be good. I like how Brood reminded him of Karsa.

[Traveller]

'Bout the same place as you. I keep thinking Malachi might be Crokus...? lots of knives, longish hair and looking for a flower from the 'gardens of the moon' - maybe for his Apsalar? Probably not, just makes me think of how Crokus would be at that stage - and he never liked the name 'Cutter' anyway.

(The Princess Bride was on tv earlie - I think that little guy that loses the poison-drinking battle of wills would make a great Kruppe... if he put on a bit of weight and had a greasy comb-over).

Really liking the way this book has just picked up so many unfinished threads from the previous books - plus Esslemonts writing style has really improved.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 11 February 2012 - 10:23 PM

[Abyss]

annnnndddd DONE. JUST FINISHED IT!

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS MASSIVE HUGE FUCKING SPOILERS
FOR OST AND EVERY MALAZAN BOOK PUBLISHED BEFORE IT
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
THE SEGULEH FIRST IS BELLURDAN SKULLLCRUSHER
FOOLED YOU NO HE ISN'T BUT IF HE WAS
YOU WOULD TOTALLY BE SPOILED AND JUST HATE YOURSELF RIGHT NOW
SPOILERS

SPOILERS

LAST WARNING

SPOILERS


When i originally read that ICE was picking up the Darujhistan plotlines from SE's TtH, i was a bit mixed. After all, the two authors writing parallel storylines in the same universe was one thing,
but ICE literally (pun intended) writing the sequel to TtH was a whole other deal.

I'm pleased, and relieved and thrilled to say that in my never so humble opinion, ICE pulled it off. He totally pulled it off and gave us a solid, enjoyable, well written entry into the series.

The overall quality of ICE's writing has improved again. That said, the style was still him, not SE, yet he managed to capture the voices of characters we've met before very nicely... the ex-Bridgeburners 'voices' were spot on, as were the various Darujhistan cast, including, impressively, Kruppe. Antsy and Spindle in particular got terrific development, moving from supporting characters in SE books to solid leads in their own right, Antsy especially.
And then we have the Seguleh... fuck me but ICE had a field day with these characters and their plotline and it was awesome reading. At root, this was the Seguleh's story, and it paid off the anticipation around them in spades.

I have a few nitpicks but they are plot specific and i'll get to them downthread, but overall this was a great book and worth the money. Thanks ICE!


BEST STORYLINE - i have to give this to Antsy's trip to the Spawns. Turning the wreckage of Moon's Spawn into a bunch of islands was a great idea. Sending in an ex-Bridgeburner with a fun supporting cast was PERFECT. And i really enjoyed the way Antsy developped... a hard-case veteran, trained as a sapper but not nearly in Fid's class, utterly pessimistic and not aware of just how good he actually is. It was telling when Corien told him why Malacki backed off and even then Antsy didn't believe it.

BEST NEW CHARACTER - I have to give this to Jan. The Seguleh Second's segments were interesting, insightful and worked very well. We saw why he was held in such high regard by the rest of the Agatii. And when he cut loose at the end on the Moranth it was perfect and perfectly painful.

I do give equal second place to Yusek - her transformation from pain-in-the-ass to Seguleh in training worked well; and to Malachki... i was SO sure this was Topper in disguise, so i liked the switch when he turned out to be a theif looking to outdo Apsalara.

Bendan grew on me, but never really hit a point when i looked forward to his segments for his development, as opposed to the events around him.

BEST FIGHT - Jan taking out the Third at the start of the story. So nicely written and subtle. Love the way he just stuck his sword out and severed the ligament, fight over, career over, have a nice day and THAT'S why he's the Second.

BEST LAUGH - Rallick walking into the Finnest House to find Raest and the miner Imass playing cards. The visual alone was priceless, the dialogue perfect.

Second place goes to Vorcan and Taya discussing Studlock... "I don't think you would even know where to stab it."

BEST LONG RUNNING PLOT LINE WRAPPED UP - There was something poetic in Dassem becoming the new First. It was a satisfying conclusion to his storyline and the Seguleh's. Dassem witnessing Jan's fight with Gall and knowing exactly what Jan was about to do was a nice ref back to TtH as well. Clever.

BEST BUDDY MOMENT - Thurule, rejected from the Agatii, joins up with Lazan and Madrun. PERFECT.

BEST OTHER LONG RUNNING PLOTLINE WRAPPED UP - The Tyrant Kings were all the same guy, and Kruppe has been stopping him again and again.

BEST HOLY FUCKNUTS MOMENT - Every word of the Moranth vs Seguleh conflict. Brutal. Violent. Totally engrossing.

BEST 'LET'S KICK THEIR ASSES' MOMENT - Aragan rallying the Malazans against the Seguleh. They're getting their asses shredded, but still manage a 'let's get some' moment. Nice touch.

BEST INDICATION ICE IS IMPROVING - No similar names. Oh sure, there was a Turvuld in there somewhere once, but after Rel/Rill/Rillish in RCG and Shool/Shuul in SW, i'm not complaining. Even the Red river wasn't a big deal.

HAIR TODAY, FAT TOMORROW - So there was a nice reduction in the references to people's gross lanky sweaty hair, but a curious... ummm.... abundance... shall we say, of... uh... 'larger' women? Picker, Blend, and Stonny are all more or less described as 'big' at some point, which doesn't really jibe with the descriptions of any of them before this book. I could accept a certain level of executive spread, seeing as they are all retired in some sense, but it still read a bit odd.

IF AT FIRST YOU DON'T SUCCEED - I would have aliked a little more clarity on the Seguleh "First"... we know that back in MoI there was one, and Jan refers to a First Seguleh, as oppposed to the Tyrant, more than once. He also refers to a wood mask, imprefect for a reason. Yet when we join the story it seems the First is dead or gone and Jan, as Second, is the highest rank on Cant. I didn't need clarity, but i would have liked it.

BEST DID I JUST REAL THAT MOMENT - Paraphrasing... "Mok came back from the Pannion War broken.". That just wrecked me. That one line dragged in massive chunks of emotion from MoI and stuck a coda at the end of it that was suitably sad.

DEAD MEN WALKING! - So THAT'S what the pickled Seguleh were for. Security System!

BEST WAIT, WHAT??? - K'rul is a WHAT??????

Second place goes to Orchid being a daughter of Tiam. Could have done with a bit more foreshadoing there, but even so it was a nice touch.

BEST MYSTERY - Just what did Kruppe and Humble Measure have Barathol do when forging those crossbow bolts?

BEST MYSTERY THAT WASN'T - Morn was totally an echo of Draconus.

HEEL BOY, HEEL - Was it just me or did Cull Heel and his boys not seem oddly... Boll-esque? The connection to Fisher was a fun surprise tho, whatever it may be.

BEST GUEST APPEARANCE - Bauchelain and Korbal, hands down. They practically owned every scene they were in, however briefly. And another example of ICE doing a nice job with SE written characters.

So... more to come, but those are my immediate thoughts having Just Finished It.

- Abyss, glad to finally join the party.

[HoosierDaddy]

Malakai must have been inserted for the next two novels, otherwise he was a worthless inclusion story-wise.

Dassem's story-line here is very good. I like where it's going. Philosophy that the Seguleh desperately need and their leadership will have seen a desperate sacrifice.

Moranth about to go nuclear was awesome, but would have been nice to know why they were immune to Barunkanal's "DO OR DIE" negotiations.

Shocked: Humble Measure not being the big bad guy.

Pleased: That the Seguleh were given a storyline.

Sad: Antsy and the Spawn Islands' didn't really sell me on anything. Other than B and KB being there for good fun and the end game of Oru, it seemed worthless. This storyline kept the novel from being tight enough to be a 5 star for me.

[voland]

So, was it just me or did it seem like Tayschrenn took over from K'rul (who turned into a woman why???) in being the keeper of the Warrens?


edit: guess not, there was a whole thread about it.

This post has been edited by voland: 12 February 2012 - 11:55 AM

[Cause]

Abyss Im shocked that you have no critiscism for this book? Were you satisfied with the Tyrant as a character? How did you respond to the scene when the malazans cry after the Seguleh were bombed? Mok came back broken (I read this as just a move by ICE to replace an SE character with one of his own), Therule fell in love with Envy and Senu is where?

Lastly I'm surprised, though obviously its subjective, that the Moonspawn plot line was your favorite. For me it was a story that never even got off the ground. They ambled around for hundreds of pages and then in the last fifty the Seguleh find the mask, we escape moonspawn, learn Orchid is a child of tiam and what? I also find reason to give fault rather than praise for what to me seemed a completely unnecessary cameo appearance by Boarchelain and Broach,


BEST MYSTERY - Just what did Kruppe and Humble Measure have Barathol do when forging those crossbow bolts?
-Im pretty sure they used shards of dragnipur (Barathol seemed to have them in his ottoteral chest) to forge the bolts.

[Lady Bliss]

My thoughts pretty well jive with yours on this one...

So Dassem is going to be a god AND leader of the seguleh? I agree this is no doubt a good opportunity for healing for all, I hope we get to see more to that storyline.

My biggest issue with the Moranth dropping munitions was the method they used. With all of their brilliance and engineering, they can't come up with anything better than throwing them out of a sack? Surely they could have come up with some kind of projectile device, and if they didn't have the know-how, why didn't they use that treaty with the Malazans to get THEM to build one?

I agree with the increase of flabby women in this book. Someone please send Richard Simmons to Darujhistan!!! Scillara was another fatty as I recall...

[tiam]

Cause, on 12 February 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

Abyss Im shocked that you have no critiscism for this book? Were you satisfied with the Tyrant as a character? How did you respond to the scene when the malazans cry after the Seguleh were bombed? Mok came back broken (I read this as just a move by ICE to replace an SE character with one of his own), Therule fell in love with Envy and Senu is where?

Lastly I'm surprised, though obviously its subjective, that the Moonspawn plot line was your favorite. For me it was a story that never even got off the ground. They ambled around for hundreds of pages and then in the last fifty the Seguleh find the mask, we escape moonspawn, learn Orchid is a child of tiam and what? I also find reason to give fault rather than praise for what to me seemed a completely unnecessary cameo appearance by Boarchelain and Broach,


BEST MYSTERY - Just what did Kruppe and Humble Measure have Barathol do when forging those crossbow bolts?
-Im pretty sure they used shards of dragnipur (Barathol seemed to have them in his ottoteral chest) to forge the bolts.

Im 200+ pages into a reread and I believe that this is the best section of the book by far.

Yes Kruppe stole the fragments of Dragnipur from a chest made entirely of otateral. When Rallick enters Baruks estate he talks to the demon who says the man with the hammer will crush the city if he finds out there gone. Rallick also sees a bit of pastry and a wine glass mark on the side suggesting that Kruppe stole it when Baruk was taken.

On a reread the references to 'him' throughout point clearly to Kruppe. He has a long relationship with the Torrud Cabal. After he looks into Amans shop and accidentally awakens the jacuruku automaton Aman refers to him as an old friend who is greasy etc. There is also the reference to him escaping the Tyrant earlier in the book. Im getting the feeling Kruppe may actually be of the Torrud Cabal or possibly a demon in human form. It would explain his new longevity? I still dont like the idea of Kruppe being thousands of years old as it goes against all our background knowledge as the sharpest mortal mind.

This post has been edited by tiam: 12 February 2012 - 04:34 PM

[amphibian]

Baruk does the inlay on the bolts.

I'm surprised Abyss calls the Tyrant storyline "wrapped up".

[Pig Iron]

Nice write-up (as always). Orchid was a daughter of Tiam? Good thing there's this forum. Think the Tyrant might be a Jaghut bodyswitcher, hint of ice there somewhere in connection with him. And what is Fischer? The Heels are a big clue, possibly foreshadowing of one of ICE's two coming theatres of operation.

[blackzoid]

amphibian, on 12 February 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

Baruk does the inlay on the bolts.

I'm surprised Abyss calls the Tyrant storyline "wrapped up".

I guess there is "wrapped up" and than there is "explained"
For me, the Tyrant was wrapped up in much better fashion than the Stormriders storyline in SW. I didn't need any more resolution/explanation on the Tyrant story, whereas I though the Stormrider story in SW was much worse handled in its resolution.
Your millage may vary of course.

[amphibian]

But the Tyrant isn't put away for good and is now livin' within Ebbin.

[blackzoid]

amphibian, on 12 February 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

But the Tyrant isn't put away for good and is now livin' within Ebbin.

I assume that there is some deal with the Azath not allowing him to leave. That he is a prisoner there like Raest,although to be honest he does seem like just a guest when he is dropped off there.

The big problem from the book was not that Tyrant, but a different one:
As in WHERE THE FUCK WAS KALLOR???

Kallor, meeting this Tyrant. Come on, think of what he would have thought of it. The possibilities. Never mind Karsa, Kallor just disappeared. Ya, I know he will probably be in the next ICE book, but it was a major dissapointment for me, that he didn't stick his head in

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 12 February 2012 - 09:25 PM

[Traveller]

Pig Iron, on 12 February 2012 - 08:24 PM, said:

Nice write-up (as always). Orchid was a daughter of Tiam? Good thing there's this forum. Think the Tyrant might be a Jaghut bodyswitcher, hint of ice there somewhere in connection with him. And what is Fischer? The Heels are a big clue, possibly foreshadowing of one of ICE's two coming theatres of operation.

Yeah, I thought Jaghut too - Raest was also able to body-switch into mages and take them over.

I might have to re-read the end - the Tyrant got taken down by bolts made by Baruk and Barathol with Kruppes help (possibly including shards of Dragnipur) sort of 'accidentally' by Scorch and Leff?

And then what, he was still inside Ebbin, who had control of himself back, and so went into the Azath, but where was his body and mask left?

Overall I thought this was one of the best in the series for actually providing conclusions and not just 20 more questions and new threads left hanging. I really enjoyed it, I thought Esslemont got the voices of the characters just right.
(And yes, lots of wide-hipped, heavy women in this one for some reason!)

This post has been edited by Traveller: 12 February 2012 - 09:28 PM