[Cause]

Spoiler Alert


Spoiler Alert



Spoiler Alert


Okay I'm not crazy right. We have met K'rul. He has acted in the books several times. He is a man. But no wait he is not? Anyone have a thought on this at all.

Among a long list of things like this I thought I would start with this one first.

oh p.s. where is Senu

[Pig Iron]

Transgender apostrophe-gods, new category.

[champ]

Elder gods can pretty much choose their own appearance... but when the BB started arguing over whether K'rul was male/female I wondered whether this was an inside joke between SE/ICE, maybe SE thought K'rul was meant to be male and ICE, K'rul female and that argument was a nod to the mix up!

Or K'rul appears to be male to male characters and female to female characters

Or it was just one big f*** up!

This post has been edited by champ: 22 January 2012 - 07:50 AM

[Cause]

 champ, on 22 January 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

Elder gods can pretty much choose their own appearance... but when the BB started arguing over whether K'rul was male/female I wondered whether this was an inside joke between SE/ICE, maybe SE thought K'rul was meant to be male and ICE, K'rul female and that argument was a nod to the mix up!

Or K'rul appears to be male to male characters and female to female characters

Or it was just one big f*** up!

That would be unacceptable. It might be their world and they should enjoy writing it but when they made plans to publish and profit from their work they had a responsibility to their readers, such childish games bring nothing to the story.

[tiam]

 Cause, on 22 January 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

 champ, on 22 January 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

Elder gods can pretty much choose their own appearance... but when the BB started arguing over whether K'rul was male/female I wondered whether this was an inside joke between SE/ICE, maybe SE thought K'rul was meant to be male and ICE, K'rul female and that argument was a nod to the mix up!

Or K'rul appears to be male to male characters and female to female characters

Or it was just one big f*** up!

That would be unacceptable. It might be their world and they should enjoy writing it but when they made plans to publish and profit from their work they had a responsibility to their readers, such childish games bring nothing to the story.

This^

However its no different to the nod of the terrible timeline in reference to Ruthan Gudd in DOD/TCG. I think its completely unnecessasy to change the sex of Krul

[Use Of Weapons]

 Cause, on 22 January 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

 champ, on 22 January 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

Elder gods can pretty much choose their own appearance... but when the BB started arguing over whether K'rul was male/female I wondered whether this was an inside joke between SE/ICE, maybe SE thought K'rul was meant to be male and ICE, K'rul female and that argument was a nod to the mix up!

Or K'rul appears to be male to male characters and female to female characters

Or it was just one big f*** up!

That would be unacceptable. It might be their world and they should enjoy writing it but when they made plans to publish and profit from their work they had a responsibility to their readers, such childish games bring nothing to the story.

What absolute tosh and nonsense. No author has any kind of obligation to their readers except to write. If a writer should choose to indulge themselves by including references to real-life confusions or disagreements, it is entirely their prerogative, as it is the reader's prerogative to accept or reject that inclusion. A reader has no power to insist on the direction of the story, or dictate the inclusion or exclusion of minor details.

In short: get over yourself.

[tiam]

 UseOfWeapons, on 22 January 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

 Cause, on 22 January 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

 champ, on 22 January 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

Elder gods can pretty much choose their own appearance... but when the BB started arguing over whether K'rul was male/female I wondered whether this was an inside joke between SE/ICE, maybe SE thought K'rul was meant to be male and ICE, K'rul female and that argument was a nod to the mix up!

Or K'rul appears to be male to male characters and female to female characters

Or it was just one big f*** up!

That would be unacceptable. It might be their world and they should enjoy writing it but when they made plans to publish and profit from their work they had a responsibility to their readers, such childish games bring nothing to the story.

What absolute tosh and nonsense. No author has any kind of obligation to their readers except to write. If a writer should choose to indulge themselves by including references to real-life confusions or disagreements, it is entirely their prerogative, as it is the reader's prerogative to accept or reject that inclusion. A reader has no power to insist on the direction of the story, or dictate the inclusion or exclusion of minor details.

In short: get over yourself.

I dont think theres a need for somewhat personal attacks here though I kinda agree with both of you.

It is somewhat confusing with Krul being a woman in this after being a man from GOTM-TCG. It could simply be explained away as the women being the last high priestess of Krul,though I think that clashes with a reference to a male monk who died a century before in GOTM. In any case given that the readers of these books will be worried about inconsistencies between authors, its understandable how it could be interpreted as basic error like the Claw/ Guild mix up halfway through. If its an injoke that that should have been made clear.

At the same time as I mentioned an in joke is an in joke. I, like a number of people onsite, liked the Ruthan Gudd comment of 'well his timeline fits' in TCG and that may have jarred with readers who dont frequent the site, admittedly not as much as a gender change. Such a 'childish game' in that instance was fine because it acknowledged something that us fans recognised whereas this may not have registered with us but it did with SE/other proof readers.

I think its an inconsistency because Hetan mentioned there were a few inconsistencies and a gender swap in her overview of the book.

This post has been edited by tiam: 22 January 2012 - 08:48 PM

[Tapper]

 champ, on 22 January 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

Or K'rul appears to be male to male characters and female to female characters

It can't be this, as K'rul meets Envy in MoI and he's male then.

[champ]

 Tapper, on 24 January 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

 champ, on 22 January 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

Or K'rul appears to be male to male characters and female to female characters

It can't be this, as K'rul meets Envy in MoI and he's male then.

Aye, I was clutching at straws there hah!

[Furoan]

Perhaps as an elemental force K'rul changed himself to get some Kruppe loving?
...
Yes i felt mildly nauseous as well.

[Illuyankas]

I'm going to assume he's now taken the shape of an old lady who went down into the re-K'rulinator hole and wasn't as strong as Tays.

Deleting this non-discussion related sentence because I am a durr.

This post has been edited by Illuyankas: 26 January 2012 - 12:38 AM

[Nuto]

 Tapper, on 24 January 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

 champ, on 22 January 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

Or K'rul appears to be male to male characters and female to female characters

It can't be this, as K'rul meets Envy in MoI and he's male then.

But do we really know that Envy is female...

[Hust]

 Nuto, on 25 January 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

 Tapper, on 24 January 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

 champ, on 22 January 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

Or K'rul appears to be male to male characters and female to female characters

It can't be this, as K'rul meets Envy in MoI and he's male then.

But do we really know that Envy is female...

Well she used to get it on with Anomander Rake & Fisher. If she wasn't a female would she not be known as Lord Envy and be set about seducing all the ladies in sight??

[jammerculture]

Do elder gods even have genitals? (elder gods have nards?)

My take on this is similar to what was said earlier, two writers and two visions and since the god in questin is not a "being" so much as a force, it doesn't really matter.

Personally i prefer K'Rul as a female anyway as it is consistent with themes in the book. Krul created the warrens from his/her body, Burn created a world from her body, and what are the warrens except worlds. Throw in the the Mayhbe story, the themes around moterhood with MD and olar ethil.

Besides this is not the first time a character in ICE's book had a different gender then te main story arc ie the Lady

Besides it all makes sense, i know if i had the power of an elder god, the first thing I'd do is give mysefl boobs

This post has been edited by jammerculture: 02 February 2012 - 05:41 AM

[Bonecaster]

 Greymanekas, on 25 January 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

I'm going to assume he's now taken the shape of an old lady who went down into the re-K'rulinator hole and wasn't as strong as Tays.

Thinking this, too. Maybe they can, or need to, renew themselves with a new body every now and then. And some woman we weren't told about only lasted a short time. It would help explain why an elder god has a tomb.

[Abyss]

D'rek and Beru have both been described as various genders.
We've seen K'rul send out an avatar in a separate body - Keruli.
We've also seen Draconus send out 'shadows'.

Why shouldn't an EG be able to modify the shape or gender of a 'reflection' they choose to act through?

Disregarding Duiker and Fisher as special cases, there were only three Bridgeburners present and two of those were women - could have been an instance where the balance of the worshippers affects the appearance of the god.

[tiam]

 Abyss, on 17 February 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

D'rek and Beru have both been described as various genders.
We've seen K'rul send out an avatar in a separate body - Keruli.
We've also seen Draconus send out 'shadows'.

Why shouldn't an EG be able to modify the shape or gender of a 'reflection' they choose to act through?

Disregarding Duiker and Fisher as special cases, there were only three Bridgeburners present and two of those were women - could have been an instance where the balance of the worshippers affects the appearance of the god.

Or simply Kruls memory of a high priestess who used to run that temple. Could really be anything tbh. Also Kily changes her shape from her usual mass into a Thel Akai and Mael takes the form of an old man. Hardly a stretch to see them switch genders.

[Lady Bliss]

We have seen the gods change their appearance as it suits them, and Cotillion has possessed women. As an elder god, I would think K'rul has possessed a few mortals in his/her time, and changed appearance countless times on whims. After all the hundreds of thousands of years that K'rul has been around, I say its possible he/she either doesn't care anymore or just can't remember what gender he/she is! The old woman image could have been a former priestess, a person once possessed or someone that K'rul just dreamed up. I doubt ICE screwed up here, I bet he just wanted to illustrate that gods can change their sex at will. My bet is that K'rul is not gone, and we will see more of this in the future.

[Midnight]

It definitely seems feasible that gods (particularly elder gods) can change their forms and genders. The only thing that I find jarring is that ICE seems to give the idea that K'rul is a woman special weight. I don't have the book with me but when Spindle asks if K'rul is male doesn't someone (Fisher?) state categorically that he's a woman? It almost sounds like K'rul 'prime" gender so to speak is female and he/she has just been masquerading as a man.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing it's just confusing as there doesn't seem to be much reason for it...though perhaps that's still to come...

[Bonecaster]

Yeah, it seemed to me, too, that they weren't talking about a cosmetic change. I'm sure they can all pull that off. But is K'rul gender aspected? Sure seems to have been male. Now we're supposed to have known it's really female? Seemed like a silly thing to do.