[Aptorian]

Here's my take on it. In Darujistan K'rul was worshipped as a woman. In other parts of the continent K'rul was worshipped as a Man. K'rul takes on the appearance of what his worshippers saw him as.

Or.

K'rul, the maker of warrens, was a woman. K'rul the new god of dreams is a man.

[Bonecaster]

I like that idea, but I don't think it can be how it works in this case. K'rul appeared as a male in Kruppe's dreams, and he appeared as a male to Rake in the temple.

[Aptorian]

Damn, then I think the only logical explanation is that Harlo Jr was K'rul all along.

[Bonecaster]

Hood's breath! You may be right!

[haysdm]

Aptorius, on 19 February 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

K'rul, the maker of warrens, was a woman. K'rul the new god of dreams is a man.

I actually like this idea since there is already a queen of dreams.

[Lady Bliss]

Midnight, on 18 February 2012 - 11:16 PM, said:

It definitely seems feasible that gods (particularly elder gods) can change their forms and genders. The only thing that I find jarring is that ICE seems to give the idea that K'rul is a woman special weight. I don't have the book with me but when Spindle asks if K'rul is male doesn't someone (Fisher?) state categorically that he's a woman? It almost sounds like K'rul 'prime" gender so to speak is female and he/she has just been masquerading as a man.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing it's just confusing as there doesn't seem to be much reason for it...though perhaps that's still to come...

Posted 20 February 2012 - 05:56 AM


Posted by Tiam on the Tayschrenn thread.


"I dont think hes replacing Drek. Ive just finished this section on a reread. It seems that Tay believes he has been manipulated into this decision by many gods, including Drek, and that no one else can do it because theyre committed elsewhere i.e. Kolanse. Tay then goes on to say that Krul may fail as he is wounded and this can not be allowed. So it seems its linked to Krul as its also under his belfry. We also see him acting when the integrity of the warrens is ruptured in ROCTG. Tay is well known for waiting out political crises but was forced to act by Yath when he created the Whorl. So Tay has a vested interest in maintaining the balance.

I actually think he will be serving Krul rather than replacing him. Serving might be the wrong word but atleast helping him heal. When Tay jumps of the cliff to talk to Drek and Kiska meets that old woman who suggests that serving is what everyone has forgotten I initially thought she was talking about Kiska's serving Tay. In ROTCG Kiska makes a point that shes serves Tay because of a higher purpose whereas the Claw serve only themselves, hence her leaving the Claw. However on a reread I think this woman is Krul, as when Tay gets back he claims Kiska must have dreamed the old woman but tells Kiska to tell him what the old woman said.

I dunno it just sort of fits that he would be serving Krul from now on, taking on a role as a guardian of the warrens. Either that or I still quite like him as the long term guardian of KT/KL as the QOD had a hand in it."

I think these two conversations need to be linked. Midnight has something about ICE wanting us to focus on K'rul's ability to appear as a woman. This helps us to solve the riddle of Tayschrenn.

Ta da!

[Paran]

Say the same as in Tays thread - K'Rul was most def a due when he and Draconus and Nightchill confronted Kallor.

[sting01]

K'Rul have thai origins; or is loosely related to siamese culture (I do relate Malzan empire to the Warring kingdoms) and he is a kathoey , and a beautiful boxer

This post has been edited by sting01: 28 February 2012 - 06:35 AM

[The Swordbearer]

Nuto, on 25 January 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

Tapper, on 24 January 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

champ, on 22 January 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

Or K'rul appears to be male to male characters and female to female characters

It can't be this, as K'rul meets Envy in MoI and he's male then.

But do we really know that Envy is female...

Spite greets her as Sister when they meet in Dar competing for Rake's sword and Draconus refers to them as his daughters. So I vote female there. Allso K'rul appeared as male to Stonny Menakis. maybe he/she has a male form used for traveling.
Or its just whatever floats the Gods boat at the time



Slightly off topic theory
No K'rul-innator Tays used QB's Spell of assimilation on a willing entity/god as The dream meeting between Tay's and Kruppe in the end of OST. where Kruppe asks what of the other and Tays replies still with me I still have much to learn and these things take centuries.

This post has been edited by The Swordbearer: 01 March 2012 - 05:18 AM

[Trull's son]

Initially, it seemed to me that Tay volunteered to provide another means through which to access the warrens, or new warrens, without putting more strain on K'rul.

Spoiler

Sort of like Icarium's new warrens

Could be Tay just replaced K'rul, but that seems unlikely due to K'rul importance in the world at the time. That said, I think Swordbearer's assimilation theory is more likely.

[Bonecaster]

That could be. And along those lines, maybe K'rul can't fit any more warrens into him/herself, and T'renn will be where any new ones go.

[Blend]

Did we ever actually meet K'Rul in person? We only ever met his 'avatar' Keruli, didn't we? Wasn't it made pretty clear that Keruli wasn't K'Rul?

[worry]

There's the hooded K'rul in all of Kruppe's dreams, which you could say is essentially ungendered, but we also see the K'rul of the MOI prologue, who is definitely referred to as a man. That said, the fact is (probably), any time we see a physically present god who is derived from an elemental source, it's an avatar. It can't really be otherwise, can it?

[D'rek]

worrywort, on 17 April 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

There's the hooded K'rul in all of Kruppe's dreams, which you could say is essentially ungendered, but we also see the K'rul of the MOI prologue, who is definitely referred to as a man. That said, the fact is (probably), any time we see a physically present god who is derived from an elemental source, it's an avatar. It can't really be otherwise, can it?

It doesn't really matter. Numerous of the Elder gods and ascendants have changed their appearances (Osserc with tusks, Mael made of flowing wateryness, etc) that whether it's an avatar or not, their physical existance can always be changed, it seems.

[worry]

Well I don't know how you define avatar, but that was basically my point. They can appear how they want, hence all their appearances are avatars (as opposed to just singling out Keruli as an avatar and lady-K'rul as somehow not an avatar). Since they're ethereal beings, all of their physical presences are makeshift creations.

[Blend]

Ah yes, guess that makes sense! So then what's the point of K'Rul appearing as a woman in this incarnation of Darujhistan as opposed to Keruli and hooded dream K'Rul in MoI?

[D'rek]

Blend, on 18 April 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

Ah yes, guess that makes sense! So then what's the point of K'Rul appearing as a woman in this incarnation of Darujhistan as opposed to Keruli and hooded dream K'Rul in MoI?

Well, the real answer, I suspect, is a dispute between ICE and SE on what gender they originally made K'rul in their RPGs decades ago and ICE poking fun at that (he's obviously aware of the discrepency considering Antsy's reaction).

If you want a non-fourth-wall reason, perhaps because the aspect of K'rul related to Darujhistan is one more associated with womanhood, or motherhood? We don't know exactly what the Darujhistan temple is or has in the basement, but I'm sure we'll learn more in later books with T'renn. So far, I believe that in that basement is where K'rul performed the ritual to create the Paths (and T'renn has now done something similar to replace K'rul and become either the new god-controller of the Paths or of Icarium's new warrens, continuing the replacement of older gods with beings of this day and age). K'rul does, after all, comment in MoI that he has had to find a new aspect.

[nacht]

It was actually Spindle's mother :-)
Just conned those idiot demon mages

[Spidermule]

[/quote]

Well she used to get it on with Anomander Rake & Fisher. If she wasn't a female would she not be known as Lord Envy and be set about seducing all the ladies in sight??
[/quote]

Invalid argument. Anomander does it with lizards. And who knows what fisher is?

But i wouldn't doubt a second that Envy is female...(at least not in her presence)

[Seatiger]

Senu died at end 3rd book I think its a 1 liner without a name.