[Sorrit]

well that's it for me. I'm off to work.

[Olar Ethil]

only 4 hours? sigh...

i'll be at work soon so I can read up today's comments before i vote. should be around during/before timeout.

[Okaros]

Just to let you guys know that I'll be travelling home around the time of deadline. I will try and access the forum on my phone, but equally I may not be around then.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Sorrit, on 16 January 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

I have been thinking on this for the last hour or so, and I simply cannot believe that Shelly would be this foolish if scum.

So I'll have to withdraw my vote.

Remove vote


When that is said, Shelly, if you're scum this has been a brilliant if rather foolhardy play, but if you're inno I have to say I think you've given a poor showing of yourself.

Just trying to play my hand for what it is worth after I dealt myself a bad hand day 2.

Quote

Where does that lead my suspicions one might ask. Directionless would be the honest answer. I was speculating on a Shelly Okaros duo, but as stated above that'll have to be discarded for now. I think Olar has been a little too aggressive and, well... useless to fit into a typical scum profile, but I agree that Kessobahn would be a closer match.

Does your discarding of me lead to also discarding Okaros? If so, why?

Quote

Korlat I still have a bad feel for, especially following the whole oh woe is me how dare you presume I'm not innocent rage that appeared a couple of days ago. Quite the overreaction if you ask me and I assume that you do.

In fact, of all my suspicions, Korlat has been by far the most persistent.  I might simply be lost, wouldn't be the first time that. Or I should perhaps go about putting my vote where my mouth is (does that even make sense?) and

vote Korlat

<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>edit: removed a sentence appearing twice</div>

As for what i think: didn't get that re-read, so not much new info. I had gut feelings about Okaros (yeah, the smooth argument) without any obvious proof. It originates with his alltogether too understanding reply to his lynching based on Osseric's theory.

I have so far voted Korlat (not for the greatest reasons either) and Karatallid, who has played a somewhat isolated game. However, considering Kara, I do have to say: would scum build and then stick to cases few/no-one agrees enough with to vote for? Seems counter-productive when your main goal is to remove town.

I read Eloth's last post, and it is surprising that he names 8 players (referring to himself as 'myself') and doesn't name 3 without making entirely clear why not, apart from grouping them under the tag 'has been on one out of two trains', these players being Silanah, Sorrit and Okaros, who are three very, very different kitties from one another.
Also, Eloth, this needs some adressing:

Eloth, on 16 January 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

If we believe Osseric is town and therefore by extension Sorrit then we are wittling down the number of players that are actually scum.

That;s a fairly exceptional link. Sorrit has bailed out Osseric a few times, but does that make him town even if Osseric is acceptable as such?
From the same post:

Quote

I'm interested to see where TS, Silanah and Olar place their vote today.

Of these, TS and Olar make it unto your scum list, but Sil doesn't. What's so interesting about Silanah's vote?


Altogether, your summary post leaves me with something approaching an itch that I just can't scratch.

[Sheltatha Lore]

So actually:
Remove vote.
vote Eloth.

edited to add the remove.

This post has been edited by Sheltatha Lore: 16 January 2012 - 03:31 PM

[Eloth]

@Sheltatha


I could quote your whole post there but it'd be a bit long.

So i'll just reply here.


I was looking at a couple of places at the same time, the post count, the thread and Tulas' two lynch trains put together. Firstly you address Sorrit and Osseric, those two have been paired together since day one in my mind, lots of agreeable posts between the two, similar views and the thought (to me at least) of Sorrit sticking his neck out for Osseric when he was receiving heat, (if he was scum), didn't sit. Yeah they could be an excellent scum partnership because they've had us all fooled but I don't think so, Osseric's play has smacked of town and I don't see why Sorrit would attach himself to another player like he has.


I have my eye on Silanah yes, as do I have on a few other players but the main three were the ones I mentioned. Why are they not on any lynch trains? We have to lynch BB twice. One lynch went down to the wire and by not voting they are potentially letting scum get away with a free day. Silanah is apart from these three as she did vote, yes she may be purposefully low posting but there could be other reasons for this so she was a little less suspect.

[Osseric]

Eloth, on 16 January 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

I thought i'd comment as I go through as there are many posts that i'd miss otherwise

Atrahal, on 11 January 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

Osseric, on 11 January 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

What makes you think Okaros is scum? Might be hard to explain. Sorry.

So you think Shelly could be playing us for idiots, then?

[obession]

So Atrahal thinks Okaros is scum based on his gut, then Okaros comes on and makes two cases in a row, one on me and another on Atrahal, the thing here is my case looks like a joke, i'm actively looking for scum yet this makes me scummy.

I'm catching up, so someone may have already mentioned this, but I interpreted Atrahal's meaning wrong. He didn't think Okaros was scummy, he was saying that those 3 people had bad guts when we said we thought he was scummy. When I misinterpreted this, Atrahal called me obsessed when I asked about Okaros.


Comment on a few posts, so I'm not gonna quote anything:

Stop talking about possible partners until we actually see the CF. it's a waste of time, if he comes up inno, and it tips scum off that we're catching on to them if you're actually right. Wait until tomorrow if we lynch correctly.

Eloth, on 16 January 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

I believe that is why the thread is so quiet, no one wants to lynch someone who might turn out innocent. If we believe you then we need to leave you alone until at the very least one BB has been lynched. If we believe Osseric is town and therefore by extension Sorrit then we are wittling down the number of players that are actually scum. However, this is mafia and we shouldn't trust anyone. Unless you have information that PI's someone (not you Shelly).

I'm interested to see where TS, Silanah and Olar place their vote today.

As I've said before, Sorrit is NOT town just because I am. He could be fake symping me.

Sorrit, on 16 January 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 16 January 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

Sorrit, on 16 January 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 16 January 2012 - 08:26 AM, said:

Sorrit, on 16 January 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

Finally there's Shelly. Who claims a whole lot of highly improbable scenarios for why she's alive today. None of them seem terribly likely in my opinion, but then I'm naturally paranoid.

Oh god, here we go again. Is it so hard to see why I won't confirm or deny what exactly happened last night?
If you don't like it, vote.

Oh I understand that from a healer's perspective it wouldn't make sense to confirm anything, but I'm getting suspicious of your original claim.

Like I said, if you don't like it, vote. Put your money where your mouth is. If you are town, if you doubt me so much, wanting a clear resolution would be in your benefit. The thing is, I know I come up inno, and I have good reasons for my current smokescreen (you admit it yourself) that do fit my claim, I have supporting circumstantial evidence in last night's results. In other words, when my CF matches my claim, it is going to lead to a real careful examination of whoever starts/ jumps on my train.
For scum, keeping me around until a time where there is pressure on town and enough doubt of me to run a train is a better option than lynching me now. Considering your current statements, you're inching towards the second category.


I have staked my claim, the night result supports it, although of course there could be a guard or the kill could be with-held. If you doubt me so much, you can solve it for all time by voting me now. Today seems a day remarkably lacking new content so far. Pursuiing my CF seems a decent option. However, keep also in mind that I already mentioned that I am a must-lynch at some point. That is a cul-de-sac for any scum, even if I were UB and would come up inno on CF, it would force BB2 to go to a d-day with only 3 alive instead of winning a day before that. Not favourable at all.

As such, if I were scum, my claim only makes sense with me as BB1. You'll want to catch him asap.
If you think that is me, go ahead, vote, despite the personal consequences. Today is relatively low on content anyway.

That's your only choice right now: accept the claim for now as truth and shut up, or vote me.


Because the more you winge about how you don't like it and don't trust it without doing anything about it in the form of a vote, is just encouraging others to take the step you don't dare to make, which will turn out exceptionally scummy once my CF comes out.

So, what I get from this is that you're perfectly okay with me voting for you but if I do the CONSEQUENCES WILL BE DIRE! That was a lot of veiled threats in a single post I must say. And the whole vote for me or shut up is equally suspect. This is not a healthy attitude to have for an inno. There's a number of reasons why a suspicion does not lead to a vote and the whole vote or shut up seems a tool only designed to hamper discussion.

You know, I was originally planning to hold out a day and see what happens but this is not the post of someone innocent.

Vote Sheltatha Lore

I think we need to wait. That's my opinion. I agree that Shelly's post was strange in that it is similar to a few of my posts. The difference is that he is roled, and I am not. Seems like a roled player would be trying to stay alive more, but I don't know. Either way, I don't think I'm ready to vote Shelly today. I could be convinced, maybe, but probably not.

[Osseric]

I'm honestly not sure where to vote at the moment.

1 Vote for Kessobahn ( Okaros )
2 Votes for Korlat ( Sheltatha Lore, Sorrit )
1 Vote for Tulas Shorn ( Eloth )
1 Vote for Okaros ( Karatallid )

I agree that Kesso has a boner for me, but I don't get the scummy feeling so much. I could be wrong, but that's my opinion. He seems like an easy target to railroad.

I don;t get the scummy feeling from Korlat, either. At all. Again, could be wrong, but yeah.

I DO get the scummy feeling from Tulas Shorn. I need to check his posts, but he seems overall low posting, but he has pretty good quality when he does post.

I feel Okaros is scummy. I attacked him day 1. I didn't day 2, because he didn't feel scummy. Now on day 3 he is starting to feel scummy based on the way he has been pushing the thread and he just doesn't seem right to me.

Vote Okaros

We don;t have much time here..

[Osseric]

We have 2 hours and 21 minutes.

[Eloth]

hopefully i'll be back in time to change my vote if needed but i'm away from work now and travelling...

[Okaros]

Well, this is quite disappointing. Everyone is unsure so instead of searching the thread for more clues you all revert to default settings: Osseric on me, Sorrit on Korlat, etc. etc. I get a lot of people are playing super cagey this game, for whatever reason, but still, come on.

Ok, my thoughts: Tulas is giving me a slightly lost inno vibe, a follower. Eloth for the most part ditto, though if a gun was put to my head and I had to choose between those two for scum, I'd go for Eloth, just for the amount "I'll be back...reading up...away again" posts. Korlat I don't actually understand what the case is based upon. I'm led to understand that there is a case, yes, but aside from Sorrit's gut feeling I can't really tell what it is? I'm not saying that any of these might not be the right pick, but it's day 3 now. Let's try and have a bit more detail to the cases. Even Kara's on me is essentially a load of posts with very little comment - not to mention Osseric's "yeah, I don't like him" brand of argument.

Is there really no merit to my Kessobahn case in comparison to these? Personally, I am quite convinced myself In all seriousness, Kesso is where my analysis of the thread led me.

[Path-Shaper]

Sorry im home but internet doesn't work

Trying to figure out if i can mod from my phone (doubtful) or find a volunteer in SH

JA

[Okaros]

Kessobahn carried on the WIFOM argument well beyond it's sell-by-date, bringing it back up whenever there was even a whiff of a mention of it by Osseric, Sorrit, or whoever. It makes him look like he has a CAUSE, a PURPOSE, an AIM. But that cause is nothing to do with what we're trying to achieve here, the lynching of BB. In fact, by constantly bringing it back up, he is actually diverting precious time away from looking for BB (as well as, as a by-product, putting attention again and again back on to Osseric). Kessobahn is scum - I'd stake Shelly's life on it.

[Okaros]

And I mean I feel that he has the BB-brand of scum, not UB. This is because I don't see this as what one might consider normal symp (fake sympage, pointing fingers in many directions) behaviour, which essentially is what UB is.

Edit: bit more detail.

This post has been edited by Okaros: 16 January 2012 - 05:46 PM

[Okaros]

Ok, i'm going underground, be back in 25 mins

[Osseric]

We really need some more people here... I'll do an update in a sec because pser can't.

Okaros, on 16 January 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

Well, this is quite disappointing. Everyone is unsure so instead of searching the thread for more clues you all revert to default settings: Osseric on me, Sorrit on Korlat, etc. etc. I get a lot of people are playing super cagey this game, for whatever reason, but still, come on.

Ok, my thoughts: Tulas is giving me a slightly lost inno vibe, a follower. Eloth for the most part ditto, though if a gun was put to my head and I had to choose between those two for scum, I'd go for Eloth, just for the amount "I'll be back...reading up...away again" posts. Korlat I don't actually understand what the case is based upon. I'm led to understand that there is a case, yes, but aside from Sorrit's gut feeling I can't really tell what it is? I'm not saying that any of these might not be the right pick, but it's day 3 now. Let's try and have a bit more detail to the cases. Even Kara's on me is essentially a load of posts with very little comment - not to mention Osseric's "yeah, I don't like him" brand of argument.

Is there really no merit to my Kessobahn case in comparison to these? Personally, I am quite convinced myself In all seriousness, Kesso is where my analysis of the thread led me.

My focus on you now is the first time, actually. Day 1 had nothing to do with you, just the first silenced player... anyway. Yeah, I think you're scum. I'm not opposed to lynching Kesso if it comes down to it, but I don't see us lynching anone, tbh. Maybe I'm being too negative.

[Osseric]

Oh, and my argument is not that I don't like you. Your play hasn't raised my hackles at all (which is a sign of itself, but that's not the point right now). It's the way you're pushing the thread, and as I pointed out last night you were attempting to set up today's lynch. You've lead the thread the past 2 days, and we've lynched innos the past 2 days. Why do you think that wouldn't make you look suspicious?

[Osseric]

This is day 3. 38 minutes left in the day.

11 Players still alive: Eloth, Karatallid, Kessobahn, Korlat, Okaros, Olar Ethil, Osseric, Sheltatha Lore, Silanah, Sorrit, Tulas Shorn

6 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

2 Votes for Kessobahn ( Okaros, Tulas Shorn )
1 Vote for Korlat (Sorrit )
1 Vote for Tulas Shorn ( Eloth )
2 Votes for Okaros ( Karatallid, Osseric )
1 Vote for Eloth (Shelatha Lore)

Players not voted: Kessobahn, Korlat, Olar Ethil, Silanah

This post has been edited by Osseric: 16 January 2012 - 06:30 PM

[Osseric]

Goddamit. I lost my post. Oh well, let me try this again.

Okaros also seems very scummy in that he is trying to outline a way that UB would act which is not guaranteed to be true at all, especially in this game.

Okaros, on 16 January 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

Well, this is quite disappointing. Everyone is unsure so instead of searching the thread for more clues you all revert to default settings: Osseric on me, Sorrit on Korlat, etc. etc. I get a lot of people are playing super cagey this game, for whatever reason, but still, come on.

Ok, my thoughts: Tulas is giving me a slightly lost inno vibe, a follower. Eloth for the most part ditto, though if a gun was put to my head and I had to choose between those two for scum, I'd go for Eloth, just for the amount "I'll be back...reading up...away again" posts. Korlat I don't actually understand what the case is based upon. I'm led to understand that there is a case, yes, but aside from Sorrit's gut feeling I can't really tell what it is? I'm not saying that any of these might not be the right pick, but it's day 3 now. Let's try and have a bit more detail to the cases. Even Kara's on me is essentially a load of posts with very little comment - not to mention Osseric's "yeah, I don't like him" brand of argument.

Is there really no merit to my Kessobahn case in comparison to these? Personally, I am quite convinced myself In all seriousness, Kesso is where my analysis of the thread led me.

This is telling, if Okaros comes up scum.

Okaros, on 16 January 2012 - 05:45 PM, said:

And I mean I feel that he has the BB-brand of scum, not UB. This is because I don't see this as what one might consider normal symp (fake sympage, pointing fingers in many directions) behaviour, which essentially is what UB is.

Edit: bit more detail.

This is the argument that really bothers me. He implies that UB would act like a normal symp. I don't believe that true. The mechanic of silencing obviously causes major distraction for town (see Day 1... and 2), and I don't think UB would be willing to blatantly symp as much as normal symps do. It's too easy to be targeted that way. I know I'm breaking my own rule I just said earlier, but I can't help but notice that Okaros has given TS the benifit of the doubt many times throughout the thread. He mentions TS and Eloth in the first quote above, but Eloth is the one he fingers as scum. He doesn't even mention Silanah, who is even lower posting than those 2, I believe.

So if that isn't reason to vote Okaros, I don't know what is.

29 minutes.

[Kessobahn]

jesus fuck, I supppose this will teach me to enjoy sleepeing in on a monday.

ummm, right, so, the case on me. I enjoy how Okaros presents me as someone with no opinions outside of osseric, and unwilling to commit to anyone but Osseric.
also, note how he lumps my dislike of Sorritt into the same thing: "he is focused on Osseric, and, by extension, sorritt"

whereas I've made it pretty clear that i'm easing up on osseric (if he doesn't do anyhting else scummy), but I remain suspicious of Sorritt, because they were loud, and seemed a serious pretender at thread dominance.

also, you convenienntly sidestep me pointing out that Eloth hasn't done much so far.

that case reeks. you post select quotes, the only ones that fit your argument, and it screams scum.

in fact, I think you're trying to deflect.

vote Eloth