[Sinisdar Toste]

Asharak, on 03 January 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

"Also this isnt 7 years after MOI at all. TTH was around a year after MOI (despite Harllo)"



How did you come to that conclusion? TTH is set after RG, and there is more than a year of the Bonehunters traveling from Malaz Island to Leather in between TBH and RG. Also Paran said in TBH that he had been living in Darujhistan for seven months(after MOI) before he started to plan his voyage to Seven Cities (and the planning and voyage could have taken a long time). I would also argue that the storylines of TBH and RG both take place over at time of at least 6 months each, and TTHs story lasted a couple of months if nothing else.

quite so, i don't know how you get to one year after MoI *despite harllo*

are we just accepting that he's eleint then?

[Black Winged Lord]

I could be well off here, but I'm fairly sure the mention of "1 year" was directly after Jan describes Enoch's mask. The one thing that stood out there is the mention of the "red" marks. Then he says something like "has it been a year already". I'm wondering whether the colour of the marks have special significance or not?
Maybe Enoch had to maintain his status as third for a full year before he could challenge Jan?

Re Mok's "breaking". I'm wondering whether it could have been more from a social point of view. The Seguleh are fairly isolationist, and Mok and co travelled with their Envy for a fair while on their expedition. I'm thinking this could have changed a fair few of his veiwpoints on outsiders, and this could lead him to be considered "broken" by the island dwellers.

[tiam]

Sinisdar Toste, on 04 January 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

Asharak, on 03 January 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

"Also this isnt 7 years after MOI at all. TTH was around a year after MOI (despite Harllo)"



How did you come to that conclusion? TTH is set after RG, and there is more than a year of the Bonehunters traveling from Malaz Island to Leather in between TBH and RG. Also Paran said in TBH that he had been living in Darujhistan for seven months(after MOI) before he started to plan his voyage to Seven Cities (and the planning and voyage could have taken a long time). I would also argue that the storylines of TBH and RG both take place over at time of at least 6 months each, and TTHs story lasted a couple of months if nothing else.

quite so, i don't know how you get to one year after MoI *despite harllo*

are we just accepting that he's eleint then?

I admit it makes little sense but im fairly sure for some reason

On a reread of TTH its stated by a few people that the Andii have only been in Black Coral for around a year and Gruntle also throws a date round of I think less than that. Like I said ill have too look it up but its nowhere near the 7 year mark. Like I said Ill look it up. The mention of Harllo is because he is the largest timeline inconsistency. Hes described as around 4-5 in TTH which isnt consistent with other mentions in the book and is regarded by many as when the timeline shits the bed

Black Winged Lord, on 04 January 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

I could be well off here, but I'm fairly sure the mention of "1 year" was directly after Jan describes Enoch's mask. The one thing that stood out there is the mention of the "red" marks. Then he says something like "has it been a year already". I'm wondering whether the colour of the marks have special significance or not?
Maybe Enoch had to maintain his status as third for a full year before he could challenge Jan?

Re Mok's "breaking". I'm wondering whether it could have been more from a social point of view. The Seguleh are fairly isolationist, and Mok and co travelled with their Envy for a fair while on their expedition. I'm thinking this could have changed a fair few of his veiwpoints on outsiders, and this could lead him to be considered "broken" by the island dwellers.

Yes it could be he had to maintain Third for a year before challenging. Also I do like the idea of Mok having some of his isolationist beliefs destroyed by the Pannion experience thus leading to him to appear broken to even his own brother.

This post has been edited by tiam: 04 January 2012 - 08:37 PM

[Paran]

That was really awesome, and I'm yearning for moaarr... By the last 2 pages I'm assuming we've dropped spoiler tags? Anyway, I think Mok might have been affected by whatever Envy was doing to him - maybe she over did it when Rake arrived in Darujhistan as Mok would have been tempted to put him in line... or maybe he saw Rake and Dassem clash and was "broken"... RAFO!

Curios about who the noble was with Antsy (Torvald?); also thought Thenaj was Tays; ICE seems to continue enlightening us on the origins of Light, while SE sill continue with Shadow and Darkness... Builder seems far less child like here... banter b/w Picker and Blend was ok... Taya looks like she'll clash with someone of note eventually...

D@mm!T!!! Hurry up and ship early book depository!!

[Asharak]

"On a reread of TTH its stated by a few people that the Andii have only been in Black Coral for around a year and Gruntle also throws a date round of I think less than that. Like I said ill have too look it up but its nowhere near the 7 year mark."


I read the book a year ago, and i didn’t pick up on any references like that, my impression from the internal material was that MOI happened years ago. It’s the kinda thing I pay a lot of attention too. Though feel free to point out evidence for your theory if you find it.



I certainly agree with you that it hasn’t been 7 years.

[Tapper]

tiam, on 02 January 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

Tapper, on 02 January 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

The main issue with whether it is ritualistic or not is probably dependant on where things happen and what someone's status and mindset is. If you compare Enoch's desire to challenge Jan and Mok's eagerness to fight Tool, there are parallels - and Mok was probably of the opinion that Tool was very close to being his equal.... if he knew he could take Tool down without effort, he wouldn't have been that interested in fighting him. What is surprising is how lethal that fight was. Mok chopped Tool up good without ever stopping... could that be why he is "broken?" Failed his own code?

When away from the isle, you can probably challenge upward by skipping steps, so the ninth can challenge the third when on expedition if the 8th to 4th aren't also there, but not on Seguleh island.

It makes sense for certain observances to be made: you can only challenge someone higher than you, and before you can challenge someone higher than you, you must have defeated every person with a rank in between the two of you... so you can't just swamp the First beneath 60 challenges of Blackmasks before taking him on as the Eighth, or train a specialized youngster from age 2 to age 19 to only fight and defeat the First.

It makes some sense for the first to be protected. Last thing you want is the Second becoming the First, the then Third challenging the just defeated and probably exhausted newly appointed Second, defeating him, and then immediately challenging the First. Maybe you have X shots at a challenge - you can't have a First who then declines to ever fight again, after all. But it seems logical that certain circumstances have to be obeyed - there is emphasis placed on the fact that Jan could refuse here, but didn't.

I dont think Moks prowess was broken by him cutting Tool to pieces. Its hinted that the upper tiers of the Agatii very rarely draw blood and Rell claims the same in ROCTG. I think that usually the upper tiers take a more enlightened view of technique where it would be obvious if one was inferior. The reason why I dont think Mok being broken has to do with this is we see that its more of a convention than a 'code' Mok could have broken. For example we see these fights are usually decided on technique yet Enoch pressed the attack despite Jan being superior. In ROTCG we see that in the fight that led to Rells banishment the judges stopped the fight on a matter of technique, however here this wasnt an option as they were all Enochs supporters, potentially forcing Jan to push the issue and draw blood. The Seguleh IB fights doesnt hesitate to wound Bars though there were ofc no judges around to speculate on technique. Mok, fighting an outsider unfamiliar with isolationist Seguleh policies or judges, was fighting for his life.

Your right though in that you can only challenge those above you or if it is in doubt such as with outsiders like IB. For example IB beats an unrecognised Agatii and is immediately challenged by Oru who is 20th the top rank (though I may have that wrong) so I think if theres doubt the challenge can be levelled.

I disagree with your assessment on Tool and Mok, though. Tool struck down Mok's brothers without inflicting bodily harm to them, thereby sticking to the Seguleh code, I'm sure he would have been cool with yielding to Mok after he drew first blood/ shattered the first bone.
As such, I just don't think Mok is physically broken, I think it is purely a mental question - it was said iirc that he 'returned broken'. It may be the effect of Envy's brainwash, perhaps.

Also, what is weird is that Anomandaris got to be the Seventh (or Ninth?) without sticking to the Seguleh code when on Seguleh isle (and thus, it is odd he is not replaced when Mok is, unless the entire Agathii challenged and defeated Mok), and now Traveller is considered the 7th. Then, if this proves that outsiders can hold rank and rank can be transferred between outsiders, what happened to the Second?

This post has been edited by Tapper: 05 January 2012 - 03:28 PM

[tiam]

Tapper, on 05 January 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

tiam, on 02 January 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

Tapper, on 02 January 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

The main issue with whether it is ritualistic or not is probably dependant on where things happen and what someone's status and mindset is. If you compare Enoch's desire to challenge Jan and Mok's eagerness to fight Tool, there are parallels - and Mok was probably of the opinion that Tool was very close to being his equal.... if he knew he could take Tool down without effort, he wouldn't have been that interested in fighting him. What is surprising is how lethal that fight was. Mok chopped Tool up good without ever stopping... could that be why he is "broken?" Failed his own code?

When away from the isle, you can probably challenge upward by skipping steps, so the ninth can challenge the third when on expedition if the 8th to 4th aren't also there, but not on Seguleh island.

It makes sense for certain observances to be made: you can only challenge someone higher than you, and before you can challenge someone higher than you, you must have defeated every person with a rank in between the two of you... so you can't just swamp the First beneath 60 challenges of Blackmasks before taking him on as the Eighth, or train a specialized youngster from age 2 to age 19 to only fight and defeat the First.

It makes some sense for the first to be protected. Last thing you want is the Second becoming the First, the then Third challenging the just defeated and probably exhausted newly appointed Second, defeating him, and then immediately challenging the First. Maybe you have X shots at a challenge - you can't have a First who then declines to ever fight again, after all. But it seems logical that certain circumstances have to be obeyed - there is emphasis placed on the fact that Jan could refuse here, but didn't.

I dont think Moks prowess was broken by him cutting Tool to pieces. Its hinted that the upper tiers of the Agatii very rarely draw blood and Rell claims the same in ROCTG. I think that usually the upper tiers take a more enlightened view of technique where it would be obvious if one was inferior. The reason why I dont think Mok being broken has to do with this is we see that its more of a convention than a 'code' Mok could have broken. For example we see these fights are usually decided on technique yet Enoch pressed the attack despite Jan being superior. In ROTCG we see that in the fight that led to Rells banishment the judges stopped the fight on a matter of technique, however here this wasnt an option as they were all Enochs supporters, potentially forcing Jan to push the issue and draw blood. The Seguleh IB fights doesnt hesitate to wound Bars though there were ofc no judges around to speculate on technique. Mok, fighting an outsider unfamiliar with isolationist Seguleh policies or judges, was fighting for his life.

Your right though in that you can only challenge those above you or if it is in doubt such as with outsiders like IB. For example IB beats an unrecognised Agatii and is immediately challenged by Oru who is 20th the top rank (though I may have that wrong) so I think if theres doubt the challenge can be levelled.

I disagree with your assessment on Tool and Mok, though. Tool struck down Mok's brothers without inflicting bodily harm to them, thereby sticking to the Seguleh code, I'm sure he would have been cool with yielding to Mok after he drew first blood/ shattered the first bone.
As such, I just don't think Mok is physically broken, I think it is purely a mental question - it was said iirc that he 'returned broken'. It may be the effect of Envy's brainwash, perhaps.

Also, what is weird is that Anomandaris got to be the Seventh (or Ninth?) without sticking to the Seguleh code when on Seguleh isle (and thus, it is odd he is not replaced when Mok is, unless the entire Agathii challenged and defeated Mok), and now Traveller is considered the 7th. Then, if this proves that outsiders can hold rank and rank can be transferred between outsiders, what happened to the Second?

Firstly I think code is the wrong word. We see Jan permanently damage Enoch and there is no mention of it afterwards suggesting that it is simply 'frowned upon' rather than a strict code.

Tool tells us he beat Senu and Thurule so as not to harm Lady Envy's servants rather than sticking to a code. Also Tool broke a few of Thurule ribs among other injuries using the flat of his blade, so it wasnt that he didnt do them harm he just didnt kill them. As he was fighting he was inflicting damage to Thurule and Toc observes that Tool was cut to pieces after the fight, suggesting they were both inflicting damage upon one another rather than sticking to any 'code' or recognised submission to one better skilled. Senu in fact is knocked out cold rather than killed. To see Mok taking down Tool as a break of any code is wrong IMO at least. You say that tool would have been 'cool to accept defeat after it was clear Mok would have won' implying Mok took it too far but we see in the previous challenges both Thrule and Senu aswell as Tool took damage. Also tool knew how far the fight was going to go as he made Mok promse to get Toc after the fight suggesting Tool knew hed be killed.

It might be safer to say there isnt a code as such simply a recognised tradition on Seguleh Isle that may not even apply to outsiders(it certainly didnt with IB as the female Seguleh he fought tried to slice the main artery in his leg). I agree though I dont think Mok physically broken more mentally broken/had his beliefs shattered.

It seems more than likely that this tradition amongst the upper tiers of he Agatii not to draw blood but to simply recognise when your beaten is a)not a hard and fast rule as we see from Jan slicing Enochs elbow and b)not relevant to outsiders.

As for Rake I think rank must be able to pass amongst outsiders aslong as they know who holds it. I think the Second (undead Second) might have something to do with the Revenants in One Eye Cat, acolytes dedicated to Hood led by renegade Seguleh. The CGRD were clearly active there as Humble Measure is led to safety by one of them, linking the Second to Skinner potentially, and it makes sense how he came to serve Hood. Just a thought really.

This post has been edited by tiam: 05 January 2012 - 04:28 PM

[Abalieno]

tiam, on 04 January 2012 - 08:31 PM, said:

The mention of Harllo is because he is the largest timeline inconsistency.

Harllo is just the victim of a disease called SORAS.

This post has been edited by Abalieno: 05 January 2012 - 08:48 PM

[D'rek]

tiam, on 05 January 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Tapper, on 05 January 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

tiam, on 02 January 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

Tapper, on 02 January 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

The main issue with whether it is ritualistic or not is probably dependant on where things happen and what someone's status and mindset is. If you compare Enoch's desire to challenge Jan and Mok's eagerness to fight Tool, there are parallels - and Mok was probably of the opinion that Tool was very close to being his equal.... if he knew he could take Tool down without effort, he wouldn't have been that interested in fighting him. What is surprising is how lethal that fight was. Mok chopped Tool up good without ever stopping... could that be why he is "broken?" Failed his own code?

When away from the isle, you can probably challenge upward by skipping steps, so the ninth can challenge the third when on expedition if the 8th to 4th aren't also there, but not on Seguleh island.

It makes sense for certain observances to be made: you can only challenge someone higher than you, and before you can challenge someone higher than you, you must have defeated every person with a rank in between the two of you... so you can't just swamp the First beneath 60 challenges of Blackmasks before taking him on as the Eighth, or train a specialized youngster from age 2 to age 19 to only fight and defeat the First.

It makes some sense for the first to be protected. Last thing you want is the Second becoming the First, the then Third challenging the just defeated and probably exhausted newly appointed Second, defeating him, and then immediately challenging the First. Maybe you have X shots at a challenge - you can't have a First who then declines to ever fight again, after all. But it seems logical that certain circumstances have to be obeyed - there is emphasis placed on the fact that Jan could refuse here, but didn't.

I dont think Moks prowess was broken by him cutting Tool to pieces. Its hinted that the upper tiers of the Agatii very rarely draw blood and Rell claims the same in ROCTG. I think that usually the upper tiers take a more enlightened view of technique where it would be obvious if one was inferior. The reason why I dont think Mok being broken has to do with this is we see that its more of a convention than a 'code' Mok could have broken. For example we see these fights are usually decided on technique yet Enoch pressed the attack despite Jan being superior. In ROTCG we see that in the fight that led to Rells banishment the judges stopped the fight on a matter of technique, however here this wasnt an option as they were all Enochs supporters, potentially forcing Jan to push the issue and draw blood. The Seguleh IB fights doesnt hesitate to wound Bars though there were ofc no judges around to speculate on technique. Mok, fighting an outsider unfamiliar with isolationist Seguleh policies or judges, was fighting for his life.

Your right though in that you can only challenge those above you or if it is in doubt such as with outsiders like IB. For example IB beats an unrecognised Agatii and is immediately challenged by Oru who is 20th the top rank (though I may have that wrong) so I think if theres doubt the challenge can be levelled.

I disagree with your assessment on Tool and Mok, though. Tool struck down Mok's brothers without inflicting bodily harm to them, thereby sticking to the Seguleh code, I'm sure he would have been cool with yielding to Mok after he drew first blood/ shattered the first bone.
As such, I just don't think Mok is physically broken, I think it is purely a mental question - it was said iirc that he 'returned broken'. It may be the effect of Envy's brainwash, perhaps.

Also, what is weird is that Anomandaris got to be the Seventh (or Ninth?) without sticking to the Seguleh code when on Seguleh isle (and thus, it is odd he is not replaced when Mok is, unless the entire Agathii challenged and defeated Mok), and now Traveller is considered the 7th. Then, if this proves that outsiders can hold rank and rank can be transferred between outsiders, what happened to the Second?

Firstly I think code is the wrong word. We see Jan permanently damage Enoch and there is no mention of it afterwards suggesting that it is simply 'frowned upon' rather than a strict code.

Tool tells us he beat Senu and Thurule so as not to harm Lady Envy's servants rather than sticking to a code. Also Tool broke a few of Thurule ribs among other injuries using the flat of his blade, so it wasnt that he didnt do them harm he just didnt kill them. As he was fighting he was inflicting damage to Thurule and Toc observes that Tool was cut to pieces after the fight, suggesting they were both inflicting damage upon one another rather than sticking to any 'code' or recognised submission to one better skilled. Senu in fact is knocked out cold rather than killed. To see Mok taking down Tool as a break of any code is wrong IMO at least. You say that tool would have been 'cool to accept defeat after it was clear Mok would have won' implying Mok took it too far but we see in the previous challenges both Thrule and Senu aswell as Tool took damage. Also tool knew how far the fight was going to go as he made Mok promse to get Toc after the fight suggesting Tool knew hed be killed.

It might be safer to say there isnt a code as such simply a recognised tradition on Seguleh Isle that may not even apply to outsiders(it certainly didnt with IB as the female Seguleh he fought tried to slice the main artery in his leg). I agree though I dont think Mok physically broken more mentally broken/had his beliefs shattered.

It seems more than likely that this tradition amongst the upper tiers of he Agatii not to draw blood but to simply recognise when your beaten is a)not a hard and fast rule as we see from Jan slicing Enochs elbow and b)not relevant to outsiders.

As for Rake I think rank must be able to pass amongst outsiders aslong as they know who holds it. I think the Second (undead Second) might have something to do with the Revenants in One Eye Cat, acolytes dedicated to Hood led by renegade Seguleh. The CGRD were clearly active there as Humble Measure is led to safety by one of them, linking the Second to Skinner potentially, and it makes sense how he came to serve Hood. Just a thought really.

I think it's more likely a tradition than a rule, too, but either way I don't they have much precedent in their rule/tradition book for what to consider when fighting undead half-skeleton-half-zombie monsters.

[tiam]

D, on 05 January 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

tiam, on 05 January 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Tapper, on 05 January 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

tiam, on 02 January 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

Tapper, on 02 January 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

The main issue with whether it is ritualistic or not is probably dependant on where things happen and what someone's status and mindset is. If you compare Enoch's desire to challenge Jan and Mok's eagerness to fight Tool, there are parallels - and Mok was probably of the opinion that Tool was very close to being his equal.... if he knew he could take Tool down without effort, he wouldn't have been that interested in fighting him. What is surprising is how lethal that fight was. Mok chopped Tool up good without ever stopping... could that be why he is "broken?" Failed his own code?

When away from the isle, you can probably challenge upward by skipping steps, so the ninth can challenge the third when on expedition if the 8th to 4th aren't also there, but not on Seguleh island.

It makes sense for certain observances to be made: you can only challenge someone higher than you, and before you can challenge someone higher than you, you must have defeated every person with a rank in between the two of you... so you can't just swamp the First beneath 60 challenges of Blackmasks before taking him on as the Eighth, or train a specialized youngster from age 2 to age 19 to only fight and defeat the First.

It makes some sense for the first to be protected. Last thing you want is the Second becoming the First, the then Third challenging the just defeated and probably exhausted newly appointed Second, defeating him, and then immediately challenging the First. Maybe you have X shots at a challenge - you can't have a First who then declines to ever fight again, after all. But it seems logical that certain circumstances have to be obeyed - there is emphasis placed on the fact that Jan could refuse here, but didn't.

I dont think Moks prowess was broken by him cutting Tool to pieces. Its hinted that the upper tiers of the Agatii very rarely draw blood and Rell claims the same in ROCTG. I think that usually the upper tiers take a more enlightened view of technique where it would be obvious if one was inferior. The reason why I dont think Mok being broken has to do with this is we see that its more of a convention than a 'code' Mok could have broken. For example we see these fights are usually decided on technique yet Enoch pressed the attack despite Jan being superior. In ROTCG we see that in the fight that led to Rells banishment the judges stopped the fight on a matter of technique, however here this wasnt an option as they were all Enochs supporters, potentially forcing Jan to push the issue and draw blood. The Seguleh IB fights doesnt hesitate to wound Bars though there were ofc no judges around to speculate on technique. Mok, fighting an outsider unfamiliar with isolationist Seguleh policies or judges, was fighting for his life.

Your right though in that you can only challenge those above you or if it is in doubt such as with outsiders like IB. For example IB beats an unrecognised Agatii and is immediately challenged by Oru who is 20th the top rank (though I may have that wrong) so I think if theres doubt the challenge can be levelled.

I disagree with your assessment on Tool and Mok, though. Tool struck down Mok's brothers without inflicting bodily harm to them, thereby sticking to the Seguleh code, I'm sure he would have been cool with yielding to Mok after he drew first blood/ shattered the first bone.
As such, I just don't think Mok is physically broken, I think it is purely a mental question - it was said iirc that he 'returned broken'. It may be the effect of Envy's brainwash, perhaps.

Also, what is weird is that Anomandaris got to be the Seventh (or Ninth?) without sticking to the Seguleh code when on Seguleh isle (and thus, it is odd he is not replaced when Mok is, unless the entire Agathii challenged and defeated Mok), and now Traveller is considered the 7th. Then, if this proves that outsiders can hold rank and rank can be transferred between outsiders, what happened to the Second?

Firstly I think code is the wrong word. We see Jan permanently damage Enoch and there is no mention of it afterwards suggesting that it is simply 'frowned upon' rather than a strict code.

Tool tells us he beat Senu and Thurule so as not to harm Lady Envy's servants rather than sticking to a code. Also Tool broke a few of Thurule ribs among other injuries using the flat of his blade, so it wasnt that he didnt do them harm he just didnt kill them. As he was fighting he was inflicting damage to Thurule and Toc observes that Tool was cut to pieces after the fight, suggesting they were both inflicting damage upon one another rather than sticking to any 'code' or recognised submission to one better skilled. Senu in fact is knocked out cold rather than killed. To see Mok taking down Tool as a break of any code is wrong IMO at least. You say that tool would have been 'cool to accept defeat after it was clear Mok would have won' implying Mok took it too far but we see in the previous challenges both Thrule and Senu aswell as Tool took damage. Also tool knew how far the fight was going to go as he made Mok promse to get Toc after the fight suggesting Tool knew hed be killed.

It might be safer to say there isnt a code as such simply a recognised tradition on Seguleh Isle that may not even apply to outsiders(it certainly didnt with IB as the female Seguleh he fought tried to slice the main artery in his leg). I agree though I dont think Mok physically broken more mentally broken/had his beliefs shattered.

It seems more than likely that this tradition amongst the upper tiers of he Agatii not to draw blood but to simply recognise when your beaten is a)not a hard and fast rule as we see from Jan slicing Enochs elbow and b)not relevant to outsiders.

As for Rake I think rank must be able to pass amongst outsiders aslong as they know who holds it. I think the Second (undead Second) might have something to do with the Revenants in One Eye Cat, acolytes dedicated to Hood led by renegade Seguleh. The CGRD were clearly active there as Humble Measure is led to safety by one of them, linking the Second to Skinner potentially, and it makes sense how he came to serve Hood. Just a thought really.

I think it's more likely a tradition than a rule, too, but either way I don't they have much precedent in their rule/tradition book for what to consider when fighting undead half-skeleton-half-zombie monsters.

Indeed they probably dont but we can use IB as another example of conflict with outsiders. Killing was the main purpose by either severing the artery in his leg or actually cutting his throat.

[Studlock]

You must remember that Mok was at 'war' rather than the formal setting of the fights on the islands, and if you think about it kind of makes sense. In a formal setting the tradition would be of more importance than say a ship with Iron Bars on it or when you discover a Tiste Andii in your midst. I think formal and informal settings have a big difference in how one would act.

[Abalieno]

I think there's another image:
http://www.pspublish...2%5D-1075-p.jpg

Kinda generic, though.

[Asharak]

Abalieno, on 08 January 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

I think there's another image:
http://www.pspublish...2%5D-1075-p.jpg

Kinda generic, though.

I would prefer that as the cover, it looks way more atmospheric.


No boats though, sigh :-)

[Varan]

Interesting image, looks like the tomb of the tyrant, and he appears to be holding a blank mask..... *dun dun duh*

[Paran]

Seems like the gold mask from the tomb... fingers crossed for early shipment of book!!

[Varan]

Another interesting bit from the dramatis personna, vorcan is head of house nom

Typo or?

[champ]

The "Tyrant" is the legendry resurrected Seguleh 1st.... dun dun dun

This post has been edited by champ: 09 January 2012 - 04:57 PM

[Paran]

Odds on Traveller being offered the First position? Odds on him rejecting said offer?

[Sinisdar Toste]

Traveller would probably be able to show he deserves it. Jan might be using one sword in anticipation of seeing Traveller. He's heard about the Daru incident, and knows who rake is rake, maybe hes practicing in case they should cross paths.

[Urizen]

Paran, on 10 January 2012 - 04:09 AM, said:

Odds on Traveller being offered the First position? Odds on him rejecting said offer?

This was my first thought too, but isn't it a bit too clichéd?