[Path-Shaper]

6 guests on the forum. Did we get posted somewhere else again?

[Ruse]

Actually, I won't, I'll be back in a couple of hours to post my thoughts on Mockra and Galain as possible lynch choices, and maybe even attempt to defend myself or something

But in the meantime: This

Emurlahn, on 02 December 2011 - 01:05 AM, said:

Jesus, why don't you railroad a little harder? I really don't want to go through and respond to individual bolded sentences, so I'll try to just be general.

Day 1: I specifically said Thyrllan was suspicious, asked questions to her, didn't get responses. Voted Kesso for the lynch. Sure seems like making my own theories.

day 2: Pursued Thyrllan farther. Was not satisfied by the responses (until the end of the day, I might add). Day 2 felt like another day 1 to me, I didn't feel confident about much of anything. At the end, I wanted a Ruse vote. From the activities of other players, Ruse seems like a good target for scum.

Day 3: From the activities of MOCKRA himself, Mockra seems like a better target for scum. Completely seperate from anything to do with Ruse, Mockra is the scummiest to me. That seems like a far better lynch than getting rid of someone based on the actions of other people.

Hey look! I formed my own shit. I'm out of my day 2 blues, and I catch heat for it. \

To wrap up, Mockra is my main choice. I'm not goddamn SURE of it, it's mafia. Nothing is sure until the CF. But he's fucking slippery and scummy.

Really though, I'm presenting a (damn good, imo ) alternative to lynching in a preordained fashion.

Day 1: Kesso Vs Thyr.
Kesso lynched. "Oh noes he was innocent!"
Day 2: Thyr Vs Ruse - Thyr must be Scum because kesso was inno!
Thyr lynched. "Shit"
Day 3: Ruse Vs. Whoever - GUYS LETS DO IT AGAIN BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY ITS WORKING

I'm not saying Ruse isnt scum. He's high on my list, mostly because of the suspicious actions of other players. But Mockra is scum based on his own actions.

Boom.

I almost considered it inevitable that I would be todays lynch, so it would be nice if that were not to be the case

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3, 9 hours and 16 minutes are left in the day.

13 players alive: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Osseric, Ruse, Spite, Tennes,

7 votes to lynch

1 vote Galain: Anomandaris
1 vote Mockra: Emurlahn
2 votes Ruse: Meanas, Omtose

Players not voting: Atrahal, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Mockra, Osseric, Ruse, Spite, Tennes

[Path-Shaper]

In other news, this thread is now 14 pages, as long as the SPOILERS for D'rek's Chapter 6.

[Mockra]

I agree with Galain about WIFOM speculation, I don't really see the point of it. Actually, I find myself agreeing with Galain's posts a lot. I think for that reason I haven't been that suspicious of him, and I'm still not.

Up until now I haven't been suspicious of Emur either. After that case he made on me I was feeling pretty OMGUS but after seeing Osseric's case I'm starting to wonder. Emur has managed to stay at the center of the thread for a long time but the majority of his contributions have been leading the discussion rather than participating in it. I know this isn't strong evidence on it's own but I can see the "helpful inno who's willing to switch votes for a hammer" as a pretty decent cover, combined with his high activity. I find his case on me pretty weak (of course) but it's interesting to see how few strong opinions he has after being so involved. I don't know that he's worthy of a vote right now but it's something to watch.

I don't know what else to say about HP, he's virtually disappeared and hasn't said much that I haven't already grilled him about. Ano is someone I want to do a full reread on. Aside from Ruse, who is still just coasting along... Actually, what the fuck Ruse? I am so dissatisfied with your play right now. You narrowly escape a lynch, you continue to post, but you're just as quiet as before. Instead you're just lamenting about how you're the inevitable lynch for today - twice in an hour just now. I agree that you shouldn't just be the de facto target but why can't you bother to defend yourself? I know you just said you would come back and do so but I'm skeptical after all the chances you've already had.

I want to see what Ruse has to say but right now I'm inclined to vote for him. I might be back in a couple minutes but otherwise no earlier than two hours before deadline.

[Mockra]

Path-Shaper, on 02 December 2011 - 06:17 AM, said:

In other news, this thread is now 14 pages, as long as the SPOILERS for D'rek's Chapter 6.

Hah. Yeah. Thread is kind of dead right now. :/

[Mockra]

Ok a couple other things stood out to me when I was rereading some of Ruse's posts.

Ruse, on 01 December 2011 - 04:34 AM, said:

<snip>

I'm still not sure what Thyr was getting at here. I mean it looks like from the scenes that P-S has posted that succession within the game itself is likely, bit why would that exclude symps?

I agree that Rashan was an odd choice, from memory they had a couple of votes day 1, but I don't remember anyone particularly focussing on them, or Rash focussing anyone else either.

I've got to head to work, will be back on later.

Here is that post of pure WIFOM I complained about. But not only is it just WIFOM, he's not even speculating on players who are alive. It's only discussion of newly dead players. I think this the most I've seen him discuss anything in a post, but it's actually worthless. He doesn't give opinions at all.

Also, while people were trying to gather votes for a Ruse lynch:

Ruse, on 01 December 2011 - 02:25 AM, said:

So mean to me

Ruse, on 01 December 2011 - 02:39 AM, said:

Also, is it usual to have so many players not voting?

Ruse, on 01 December 2011 - 02:46 AM, said:

Osseric, on 01 December 2011 - 02:42 AM, said:

What do you mean? There's 4 not voted out of 15, that's not a great many players.

I was just wondering, it seemed like rather a lot. Meh

These posts make me think Ruse is a fairly new player. Combined with how little he actually says and how "sensitive" he seems to be makes me think he could be a very inexperienced scum who is trying not to piss anyone off but also doesn't really know how to defend himself effectively.

Vote Ruse


I tried to wait awhile for him to come back but it's been a couple hours and I'm out. I'm leaving my vote here until the morning.

[Mockra]

Emurlahn, on 02 December 2011 - 12:33 AM, said:

Osseric, on 02 December 2011 - 12:04 AM, said:

Ok, on a reread of Mockra's posts, I don't really see a connection with Ruse the way Emur paints it. Yes, Mockra voted for Thyrllan rather than Ruse, but actually that was quite consistent, since Mockra had numerous times said that Thyr seemed suspicious to them for various reasons. In addition, Mockra also puts some pressure on Ruse, asking them more than once to either up their game and contribute more or complaining when he felt Ruse was just ignoring him. Moreover, Mockra states that his suspects, after Thyrllan, were Ruse, HP, and maybe Ano - all of which is consistent with everything he had posted in the past.

The more I looked at, I have to say the less suspicious I became of Mockra.

The Thyr vote isn't the suspicious part. Please read all the way through my argument. Mockra said he would be around until lynch, but when we were looking for people to switch to Ruse, he (imo) pretended he wasn't there. He would have been enough to get the vote, and a lynch at all would have been impossible if not for Thyr voting against herself. It really jumped out at me, personaly.

Missed this before. I was on my phone and I thought I made it pretty clear that I wasn't going to be on consistently until lynch. I was around for awhile but then didn't make it back until 10 minutes before timeout, but Thyr was already lynched.

[Tennes]

duuuuude...i am hanging bad this morning.
Savagnon Blanc does not leave a good taste in your mouth in the morning...uurrgh.

coffeee, codeine, mafia...in that order.
we have time left right?

[Atrahal]

Coffee and codeine kicked in yet Tennes. And good morning to the two of us, whoever number 2 is. Reading up.

[Tennes]

Emurlahn, on 01 December 2011 - 03:47 AM, said:

Osseric, on 01 December 2011 - 03:43 AM, said:

Do you guys remember who was attacking Rashan? Could be an attempt by scum to link, or on the other hand Rashan was in danger of coming up with a correct suspicion and so was silenced. On the fifth hand, he was just a random NK.

There's so much WIFOM there, my brain is melting. NKs are NKs because the killer kills who they think we wont think they kill because they kill. Yeah?

last game i was NK'd simply because i fingered a killer dead to rights and they wanted to silence me.

as much as I hate WIFOM...dammit...it happens, so is it worth perhaps not looking into it?

[Tennes]

Atrahal, on 02 December 2011 - 09:53 AM, said:

Coffee and codeine kicked in yet Tennes. And good morning to the two of us, whoever number 2 is. Reading up.

codeine kicked in bigtime...passed out on the couch for a bit there

[Tennes]

Osseric, on 02 December 2011 - 01:08 AM, said:

Galain, on 02 December 2011 - 12:57 AM, said:

But having said that, Emurlahn has just stepped up and made a case. My initial impression was that it seemed to have been made in part out of an understanding that we need to start casting the net wider than just the one or two players who have been under the spotlight so far. I have to go to bed soon, but I'll take another look with a more critical eye and see what I think.

Yes, the Mockra case does break the pattern quite drastically, as I admitted. Which is really the reason why I didn't then and there accuse Emur of anything, but was interested to see if other people thought there was something to this.

I'm not sure where my vote is going to go as yet. None of the cases so far (including my own) convince me. Yesterday I voted Ruse but that was because that's the one I considered more suspicious out of him and Thyrllan. If it comes to it I will vote Ruse again, but as well as the likes of Ano and Emur who I've pointed out, Tennes I believe might be a good lynch choice.

kinda...outa the blue that?

why if i may ask?

[Atrahal]

Ok, I've been reading straight through the posts of people, and so far (well, I'm not done reading yet), I really don't like the looks of Meanas.

I know he seems a bit more active, but to tell the truth, most of what he does is post massive amounts of quotes and then give a one or two liner comment, usually along the lines of "Interesting catch" or "I liked these three posts. Basically point, counterpoint, and counterpoint. Just sayin." I tried looking for some original thinking, but wasn't actually able to find any. Mostly just agreement with other people's statements and side comments like "Alas D'rek"


However, currently Ruse is a lot worse in this respect, especially with all the moaning about being today's lynch target without doing anything about it (e.g. defending himself, giving us better targets, etc). I'm getting the feeling that lynching Ruse is just a waste of time for town, another night when scum has a chance to knock one of us off, but I'm not sure we have much of a choice.


I really don't like the idea of letting people float on, especially since often scum vary their play style to make sure at least one of them is sticking around like a cold sore. But we already seem to be giving Spite a free pass (who was it that said that they would use that as a scum trick in another game? maybe Spite discovered the trick early...) and unless some of the people with low content slip up, like Ruse, so far we lynch the more controversial members, who talk more...


I dunno, I'm really not sure what to do with all this. I want to trim off dead skin in fear of gangrenous parts, but I also don't want to waste time and give scum a chance to pick us off before we whittle the population down to active players.


So, I know that this has already been said, but, Ruse, step up to the fucking plate. Meanas, give us more than just quotes with one line follow-up nonsense. Spite, either have someone outside the game take your role or let PS kill you off for us.

[Tennes]

Im not getting any of these cases.

actually....the case on ehmur is that he has been wishy washy with all the cases so far but when it case to the mockra case he has changed his style?

the mockra and ruse cases i will have to go read again....because i just dont get it.
perhaps needmore coffee and less codeine....meh

[Atrahal]

So here's where I'm going to vote for the time being (I figure Ruse's lynch is inevitable since he seems like he's already padding his coffin for a nice eternal slumber): so far the most vocal player who has simultaneously struck me as scummy is HP. Now, this is more than just a response to his attacks on me (but that didn't help his case in my mind either), but as others have said, he seems to have a pet theory to which he's stuck to the exclusion of all else.

For the first two days, he was on neither train ending in a lynch. Day 1, he stuck with a vote on me till the bitter end of the day. Not a major problem on the first day's lynching, seeing that he held true to his stance, however Day 2 was less promising. Still stuck on his Day 1 theory, HP continued to defend his position, adjusting our scum roles from symp to killer as necessary to maintain the theory. The longest text he gave in one post on Day 2 was defending himself and his theory from day 1, quoted below:

Quote

as you can see there was a almost a hour between there cases more then enough time for them to conlude and then mess up as to why the would go after the same person well that would have to be a mess up wouldn't it no right minded scum would both go after the same target unless they messed up
tennes the fact that people thought that I was kesso's symp speaks not to my symp hood but to their own lack of ability
mockra the only reason that scum would make the same case on a person is that they messed up it has happened before there for it is possible.
galain what else could you possibly say that you were in fact scum and that atrahal was your partner and that you had thought that you were suppose to make the case while atrahal thought that he was suppose to make the case you two still look scummy and much to chummy for my tastes
still getting caught up

And now he's too busy to post much. I actually believe that he is busy (I myself am very busy), however when he has had time to post, he hasn't really addressed much beyond his own theories and protecting his ass.

So why is this scummy? Townies get hard-ons that probably require emergent surgical intervention, right? Well, that may be the case, but a great position for scum is throwing people off the scent. HP's case, how ever poorly constructed, still permeates the game and continues to find it's way into conversations on the third day. In fact, Galain and I are still linked for some reason for his case directly following mine on Day 1, something that I would really be hard pressed to believe was scummy that early in the game, and that careless if we were colluding. Plus, since when do scum actually work hard to come to agreement on a Day 1 lynch, when nobody has been around enough to build more than weak cases with WIFOM evidence?

HP has done a good job of holding onto his position and somehow appearing to contribute to town, despite rarely discussing more current lynch possibilities. I'm not sure I can make a difference today, since Ruse has garnered too much attention and probably needs to be lynched to be sure he's not scum (though if he is scum, I would be surprised....), but since I'm don't think Ruse is more that a townie having a crappy game, I need to vote where I see scum:

Vote HP

I will though be ready to continue discussing Ruse, as I have previously, but I wanted to put out another theory, at least for tomorrow's consideration if Ruse's case is too pressing today.

Edit: bolded vote

This post has been edited by Atrahal: 02 December 2011 - 10:49 AM

[Tennes]

Mockra, on 02 December 2011 - 07:12 AM, said:

Ok a couple other things stood out to me when I was rereading some of Ruse's posts.

Ruse, on 01 December 2011 - 04:34 AM, said:

<snip>

I'm still not sure what Thyr was getting at here. I mean it looks like from the scenes that P-S has posted that succession within the game itself is likely, bit why would that exclude symps?

I agree that Rashan was an odd choice, from memory they had a couple of votes day 1, but I don't remember anyone particularly focussing on them, or Rash focussing anyone else either.

I've got to head to work, will be back on later.

Here is that post of pure WIFOM I complained about. But not only is it just WIFOM, he's not even speculating on players who are alive. It's only discussion of newly dead players. I think this the most I've seen him discuss anything in a post, but it's actually worthless. He doesn't give opinions at all.

Also, while people were trying to gather votes for a Ruse lynch:

Ruse, on 01 December 2011 - 02:25 AM, said:

So mean to me

Ruse, on 01 December 2011 - 02:39 AM, said:

Also, is it usual to have so many players not voting?

Ruse, on 01 December 2011 - 02:46 AM, said:

Osseric, on 01 December 2011 - 02:42 AM, said:

What do you mean? There's 4 not voted out of 15, that's not a great many players.

I was just wondering, it seemed like rather a lot. Meh

These posts make me think Ruse is a fairly new player. Combined with how little he actually says and how "sensitive" he seems to be makes me think he could be a very inexperienced scum who is trying not to piss anyone off but also doesn't really know how to defend himself effectively.

Vote Ruse


I tried to wait awhile for him to come back but it's been a couple hours and I'm out. I'm leaving my vote here until the morning.

This whole WIFOM and NK thing.

The attitude towards it is kinda been getting to me lately.
Mainly because of that recent game i mentioned where i had got my man on thread, was killed as a result of the case and my case was subsequently shoved under the rug, forgotten and scum went on to win it rather comfortably.

While i get the whole wifom debate. I get that there is no way to tell why someone got killed for sure.
That doesnt automatically mean that we should stop actively trying to seek for a potential reason regardless.
I mean, if we are going to start thinking that way. And just completely right anything off that entails a night kill then we are just giving the killers free reign to do as they please with out any worry.

This is the only guaranteed peace of clue we are going to get from scum out of the game that they have positively actively done for a sopecific reason.
And to completely ignore it because it is wifom is rather silly if you ask me.

At the very least it should be looked at. Even if it is dismissed afterwards as wifom, shouldnt we be looking at it anyways?
Its SOMETHING is it not, a potential starting point....better than nothing if you ask me.

MOTIVE is an integral part of any murder trial ffs.


So to cut a long story short.
Just because something can be written off as wifom, does not mean it shouldnt get looked at and filed away.
who knows it might fit a bigger case later on.


now i understand the wifom hate but its been getting worse and worse for a long time now.
So bad in fact that here we have an attack on someone who wants to look at some bloody concrete evidence.
This is WIFOM abuse dammt..

Let Ruse go have a look at Rashans suspects for crying out loud...it cant hurt.
Afterwards you can then dismiss what he finds as WIFOM if you want.... OR just MAYBE he fonds something, and you can maybe build on it if you like it.
You never know?
But to attack a person before he even did the wifom deed...wow.. its getting to a new level of wifom hate here...I hate it as much as the next person but this preemptive strike wifom killer stuff is counter productive if you ask me.



thats my 2 cents anyways.


//rant

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3, 4 hours and 40 minutes are left in the day.

13 players alive: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Osseric, Ruse, Spite, Tennes,

7 votes to lynch

1 vote Galain: Anomandaris
1 vote Mockra: Emurlahn
3 votes Ruse: Meanas, Omtose, Mockra
1 vote HP: Atrahal

Players not voting: Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Osseric, Ruse, Spite, Tennes

[Atrahal]

We only have 4 hours left? Shit. Where the fuck is everyone?

Ok, well I now have to go off to work. I am changing my vote to Ruse so that we at least have a shot of lynching and potentially hitting scum today (and that is the primary reason for changing my vote. we'll get some information at minimum, but I wish we had more time [AND PEOPLE] to work through some of these longer posts and more rich ideas today).

Damn fucking end of day overlapping with work....grrrr. Hope this helps:


Remove Vote



Vote Ruse.






Edit: removed my vote...

This post has been edited by Atrahal: 02 December 2011 - 11:19 AM

[Anomandaris]

a much more quiet day yesterday then. @galain - you might not agree with the impression i get from reading the thread but it is my impression. I dont have time to go over things and analyse in depth so when i categorise players its based on what i think they are doing and what they are trying to achieve. So players like ruse who ignore votes and cases but try to make up random points i put into a category of SEEM like they want to run things ie trying and failing to make an impact on the flow of the game. Players like omtose who got fake?offended by my category of coasting might post alot and give summaries but really dont offer much in the way of their own opinions and dont seem inlcined to make waves. Not saying they dont have content but they arent making people dance to their own tune or seeming to even attempt it. As for putting myself as absent, i aint saying dont look at me, all i am saying is that I am not on that much and hadnt been bending my will upon others to force lynches my way. Your play comes across to me as contradictory, sorry but it does, those posts i quoted are just a two of how many? The fact you seem so aggrieved by an accusation is warning enough. I think your cf would shed light on a lot of players too much in the way ruses would. If you come back scum atrahal would be the logical jump from you, following you on kesso's lynch and trying to get ruse lynched yesterday. @ruse - you need to address some of the ppoints against you. You flat out ignored your lynch train yesterday and are going to be a devisive factor in the rest of the game if not removed. Your cf will give us info about a wide range of players, most recently tennes anger at mockra shouting you down. but other players around the fifty fifty chance with yesterdays lynch like gamelon. Will stick with galain for th emoment, but will try to get on in an hour to swap to ruse to get a lynch if required.