[Sinisdar Toste]

tiam, on 23 November 2011 - 06:14 PM, said:

D, on 22 November 2011 - 10:51 PM, said:

One Eye, on 22 November 2011 - 03:24 PM, said:

I thought only the White Face Barghast were gone. Wouldn't the other clans still be there to contend with the Moranth?



P.S. Awesome Artwork though....can't wait for this book. Really Need a Malazan Fix bad! After I finished TCG in MArch i didn't read another Fantasy book until July. I actually Started reading The Horus Hersey(Warhammer40k) cause wanted to re sci-fi but was sick of the Star wars Expanded universe.

White Face Barghast = the nation of Barghast on Genebackis, consisting of various clans such as the Ilgres. So nope, they all went.

I thought that but im sure Abyss had a quote claiming that the Ilgres had stayed or something

i'm not sure if there's an exact quote, but from all the material we have, it just seemed like the ilgres were never part of the white face nation. right from the start they're presented as separate, being mercenaries in broods army. i doubt that all the barghast on genebackis left.

This post has been edited by Minhasing Bheget: 25 November 2011 - 03:04 PM

[D'rek]

Minhasing Bheget, on 25 November 2011 - 03:03 PM, said:

tiam, on 23 November 2011 - 06:14 PM, said:

D, on 22 November 2011 - 10:51 PM, said:

One Eye, on 22 November 2011 - 03:24 PM, said:

I thought only the White Face Barghast were gone. Wouldn't the other clans still be there to contend with the Moranth?



P.S. Awesome Artwork though....can't wait for this book. Really Need a Malazan Fix bad! After I finished TCG in MArch i didn't read another Fantasy book until July. I actually Started reading The Horus Hersey(Warhammer40k) cause wanted to re sci-fi but was sick of the Star wars Expanded universe.

White Face Barghast = the nation of Barghast on Genebackis, consisting of various clans such as the Ilgres. So nope, they all went.

I thought that but im sure Abyss had a quote claiming that the Ilgres had stayed or something

i'm not sure if there's an exact quote, but from all the material we have, it just seemed like the ilgres were never part of the white face nation. right from the start they're presented as separate, being mercenaries in broods army. i doubt that all the barghast on genebackis left.

The Ilgres - ie the clan that Hubrall Taur lead and that Hetan was in? That Tool took over from Humbrall Taur (after Humbrall Taur died during the landings on the Lether continent)? How on earth do you figure they stayed behind when every named character from the clan was on Lether-continent?

[Salt-Man Z]

Ilgres wasn't Taur's clan; Ilgres was part of Brood's army in both GotM and MoI. The White Face clans didn't even get involved until Trotts did his challenge thing in MoI. Quotes from a digital copy, so I can't give edition/page number.

GotM said:

The Ilgres numbered among the strongest of those who had joined the Crimson Guard at Blackdog Forest...

MoI said:

Caladan Brood's army had taken its time coming south, and had only the day before reached the plain north of Pale—Tiste Andii at its heart with mercenaries and Ilgres Barghast on one flank and the Rhivi and their massive bhederin herds on the other.

Perhaps the most definitive quotes I could find, proving that the Ilgres are not White Faces:

MoI said:

Whiskeyjack would have to make his few numbers count—the twelve Tiste Andii, the Ilgres Clan and Humbrall Taur's elite clans of the White Face would most likely prove crucial

MoI said:

'None the less, I will have us lining this ridge come the dawn, the Ilgres Clan on our left, Taur and his White Faces on our right.'

MoI Glossary said:

The Barghast: a warrior caste tribe found on various continents:
Ilgres Clan
White Face Clan (including: Senan, Gilk, Ahkrata, Barahn, Nith'rithal)

[tiam]

D, on 29 November 2011 - 04:39 AM, said:

Minhasing Bheget, on 25 November 2011 - 03:03 PM, said:

tiam, on 23 November 2011 - 06:14 PM, said:

D, on 22 November 2011 - 10:51 PM, said:

One Eye, on 22 November 2011 - 03:24 PM, said:

I thought only the White Face Barghast were gone. Wouldn't the other clans still be there to contend with the Moranth?



P.S. Awesome Artwork though....can't wait for this book. Really Need a Malazan Fix bad! After I finished TCG in MArch i didn't read another Fantasy book until July. I actually Started reading The Horus Hersey(Warhammer40k) cause wanted to re sci-fi but was sick of the Star wars Expanded universe.

White Face Barghast = the nation of Barghast on Genebackis, consisting of various clans such as the Ilgres. So nope, they all went.

I thought that but im sure Abyss had a quote claiming that the Ilgres had stayed or something

i'm not sure if there's an exact quote, but from all the material we have, it just seemed like the ilgres were never part of the white face nation. right from the start they're presented as separate, being mercenaries in broods army. i doubt that all the barghast on genebackis left.

The Ilgres - ie the clan that Hubrall Taur lead and that Hetan was in? That Tool took over from Humbrall Taur (after Humbrall Taur died during the landings on the Lether continent)? How on earth do you figure they stayed behind when every named character from the clan was on Lether-continent?

Im sure thats not right. Thats not what the clan was called at all they were called the Senan I think. Yes we dont see any Ilgres characters named (warchiefs, shamans etc) but that doesnt mean theyre one of the nameless clans that turn up on Lether. In fact im sure they predate the White face and were mentioned as serving Brood in GOTM.

EDIT- SMZ beat me to it.

This post has been edited by tiam: 29 November 2011 - 07:47 PM

[Salt-Man Z]

tiam, on 29 November 2011 - 07:44 PM, said:

EDIT- SMZ beat me to it.

By about 14 hours, dude.

[Siergiej]

Well, after seeing that, I must say that if I were Daru, I'd already be packing my shit up and heading as far as possible from the city.

[Tnexus]

Second piece of artwork is up. Sorry for the large size, it's what on their website.

Spoiler

This post has been edited by Tnexus: 03 December 2011 - 09:53 PM

[T'renn]

Interesting, Seguleh clearly, but with a single smudge on the forehead of the mask.... and undead, so it is the Seguleh Second. I really like the style and the set up it promises for the book.

[Illuyankas]

Sadly I have to disagree with it being the Second. First off, there's another smudge to the left of the one you mention. Secondly (ho ho see what I did there) dude, WHERE IS HIS HORSE SERIOUSLY THE GUY NEVER GETS OFF THE THING

[HoosierDaddy]

I think that's shading by the artist. Second makes sense considering he's undead. Then again, I think all the pickled ones will come back seeing as how it's the "Phoenix" Inn.

Secondly (har har): didn't he get off his horse in Darujhistan? Or was that lance action? I can't remember.

[Silk]

I think its one of the renegade Seguleh... the description in the book leads me to believe its Studlock

[tiam]

H.D., on 04 December 2011 - 08:13 AM, said:

I think that's shading by the artist. Second makes sense considering he's undead. Then again, I think all the pickled ones will come back seeing as how it's the "Phoenix" Inn.

Secondly (har har): didn't he get off his horse in Darujhistan? Or was that lance action? I can't remember.

Yeh I think he does get off the horse at the end of TTH.

Also I thought it was Hinter at first. How accurate is this artwork though. As we all know some of the covers are good yet dont actually depict events from the book. Others *cough TBH christmas carol edition cough* depict scenes from the book that arent really interesting or relevant.

This post has been edited by tiam: 04 December 2011 - 10:37 PM

[Abyss]

Could be some other undead Seguleh. We know from TtH there are a few possibilities lying around pickling.

That said, i go with the Second with artistic liberties taken, notably the mask which is supposed to be featureless except the markings.

[Sinisdar Toste]

my first thought upon seeing this was Studious Lock, because he's gotta have something hidden under all those strips of cloth, and that looks like it could be him. just a first glance reaction. if it is the seguleh second, why? i don't think he's sticking around daru. skinner is elsewhere after all. caveat: and now has iron bars and the seguleh second chasing after him, and is anybody else thinking "BUDDY MOVIE!", cuz i sure am. it could happen in assail: the return of iron bars. /caveat.

so it don't think it's likely that the seguleh second would feature, unless as a cameo in the seguleh plotline. so i'm not really sure where i stand on this. is that even a seguleh mask? true seguleh masks have no features. it's been a universal characteristic. i could see a renegade seguleh like studious wearing a mask with features on it as a kind of sarcastic reversal of his cultures practice of mask-wearing. a minor rebellion if you will. it may also have something to do with what is underneath his bandages.

[worry]

All that is based on the notion that the artist's aim was to be as close to Malazan orthodoxy as possible, which isn't necessarily the case. Also, there's no reason the Second couldn't kill a few people for fun before he takes off. Who wouldn't?

[D'rek]

Salt-Man Z, on 29 November 2011 - 05:16 AM, said:

Ilgres wasn't Taur's clan; Ilgres was part of Brood's army in both GotM and MoI. The White Face clans didn't even get involved until Trotts did his challenge thing in MoI. Quotes from a digital copy, so I can't give edition/page number.

GotM said:

The Ilgres numbered among the strongest of those who had joined the Crimson Guard at Blackdog Forest...

MoI said:

Caladan Brood's army had taken its time coming south, and had only the day before reached the plain north of Pale—Tiste Andii at its heart with mercenaries and Ilgres Barghast on one flank and the Rhivi and their massive bhederin herds on the other.

Perhaps the most definitive quotes I could find, proving that the Ilgres are not White Faces:

MoI said:

Whiskeyjack would have to make his few numbers count—the twelve Tiste Andii, the Ilgres Clan and Humbrall Taur's elite clans of the White Face would most likely prove crucial

MoI said:

'None the less, I will have us lining this ridge come the dawn, the Ilgres Clan on our left, Taur and his White Faces on our right.'

MoI Glossary said:

The Barghast: a warrior caste tribe found on various continents:
Ilgres Clan
White Face Clan (including: Senan, Gilk, Ahkrata, Barahn, Nith'rithal)

Well I'm just a silly goose then. Does it ever say/hint where the Ilgres are from? If they are so distinct from the White Face I would think they live elsewhere, though maybe still on Genabackis.

[Salt-Man Z]

I think GotM gives their location prior to joining with the CG (near one of the quotes I posted) but I can't look it up right now. (Along the lines of "South of X mountains" or whatever.)

[Abyss]

Minhasing Bheget, on 05 December 2011 - 02:35 AM, said:

...skinner is elsewhere after all. caveat: and now has iron bars and the seguleh second chasing after him, and is anybody else thinking "BUDDY MOVIE!", cuz i sure am. it could happen in assail: the return of iron bars....

I can see it now... like a Malazan LETHAL WEAPON.... Iron Bars the borderline suicidal disillusioned badass, partnered with the Second in all his thousand or so year old voice of experience veteran undead full blown obsessive insane badass glory... and hilarity ensues...

- Abyss, could see (pre-crazy) Mel Gibson and Danny Glover making this work...

[Ben Delat]

i dont think its the Second. Maybe Studious.

Not the Second because the mask is gold not white enamel(could be artist interpretation tho), and I am not sure if the second was included when they describved all the segulah in Draginpur and how all their masks were all white because the fierce force of chaos melted off all the markings, they describe this in a way where it seems it is the Second's inner monologue, and he was fighting with them but I dont know if it was close enough for his mask to be "bleached" also.

and even though studious is segulah a gold mask makes sense for him as they all had to replace their masks when they went rogue/got kicked out. There is a comment about them getting new masks in TTH. Plus the Second is always described as in full leather armour, which the guy in the artwork above doesn't look like that.