[QuickTidal]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 04 November 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

Was nice to see Carol drop the act a little - I've pretty much hated the character since "Look at me I make cookies, I'm a good little housewife" in Alexandria.

Agreed. Her bullshit innocent housewife act is irritating as hell. I just need her to go back to being a cold, no nonsense, sniper badass.

[worry]

Yup!

[worry]

Helps that Melissa McBride is an actual professional actor, in contrast to the rest of the cast who were hired from a "Take One" tearaway flyer on a remedial college's bulletin board.

[acesn8s]

Some interesting info, but not my favorite episode.

[Malankazooie]

Yeah, some interesting backstory on Dwight and his wife. I can see were they may take that eventually: a convergence of him, Daryl and Carol turn the tide in favor of Rick's group.

Interesting too how the Saviors are using the same defense strategy as La Colonia in FTWD.

On a personal note, I can see some viewers getting really annoyed at the Negan character and possibly bailing because of him.

But yeah, not the greatest episode. Also this:

[QuickTidal]

I think this is a good episode to showcase what's so wrong with the writing on TWD most of the time, a ep like this which is about breaking someone and mental torture...

My favourite episode of Star Trek: TNG is called CHAIN OF COMMAND. In it, a Cardassian commander is set the task of breaking Captain Picard's will, by showing him 4 lights and telling him there are 5. All Picard has to do to be let go is agree that there are in fact 5 lights. It's literally an hour of perfection, that ends with the bereft, sickly, damaged Picard not giving in, and on his way out shouting that there are FOUR lights.

They kind of tried to play something similar here with the whole who are you? Negan thing. But it doesn't,work because they did literally none of the groundwork to get there and make it resonate. Oh, you fed him dog food sandwiches and played an annoying song? Boy, that's oughta work....not.

I think sometimes the writers of this show are so dead set on doing certain things, but have no idea how to properly execute them in an organic and believable way...so you end up with a lame duck episode like this. It's sad really.

[Malankazooie]

Well, to be fair, I think sleep deprivation (24 hr music pumped into the cell), discomfort from cold (being naked), no light (dark cell) and, Alpo sandwiches (which probably is a delicacy in an apocalypse scenario) resonates with the TWD audience better then a light puzzle. I think the writers were lifting tactics directly from Gautanimo Bay to be honest. It was clear to me what they are trying to accomplish with Daryl. But yeah, overall it seemed somewhat lacking in impact.

Also, did anyone else think it was odd that Daryl didn't seem to have as much damage as he should have from receiving a beat down from Negan's thugs for trying to escape?

[QuickTidal]

Malankazooie, on 08 November 2016 - 01:26 AM, said:

Well, to be fair, I think sleep deprivation (24 hr music pumped into the cell), discomfort from cold (being naked), no light (dark cell) and, Alpo sandwiches (which probably is a delicacy in an apocalypse scenario) resonates with the TWD audience better then a light puzzle. I think the writers were lifting tactics directly from Gautanimo Bay to be honest. It was clear to me what they are trying to accomplish with Daryl. But yeah, overall it seemed somewhat lacking in impact.

Also, did anyone else think it was odd that Daryl didn't seem to have as much damage as he should have from receiving a beat down from Negan's thugs for trying to escape?

So a few things, as to the song (which while upbeat and kind of annoying)...it was not something that would seriously bother me, and from a smart writer perspective (and I kept expecting them to do this...and they didn't and I think it was a huge missed opportunity) it would have made sense for Daryl to have learned the words and sung it loudly in Dwight's face when he came to serve him food, just to show his strength under mild torture like music/sleep deprivation. I was actually expecting this to happen because it can be played off both for laughs and to push Daryl's agenda of refusal to balk.

It's also Virginia in the summertime. It's not cold. So being naked probably only plays off a vulnerability aspect...not a temperature one.

No light? Meh. Honestly, this is not a torturous thing UNLESS they were taking him out into the blinding sun to fuck with his eyes. But they weren't. So he was just sitting in the dark...which we do every night for 8 hours. It's not a hardship.

The dog food sandwiches...like you noted....in the apocalypse are not hard to deal with. Sure it's degrading, but it's not exactly torturous...and it came on a bun every time. If they really had wanted to break him they'd hand him the can SEALED, and expect him to bust it open himself and scoop it out with his fingers. That at least would have been a little more spirit breaking.

I'm also entirely bothered by how telegraphed it was that Negan so OBVIOUSLY wants Daryl hitting on his side for him. This adds a whole layer of unbelievability to the episode merely because we know Negan isn't going to kill him, or damage him all that much, and you can tell in nearly every scene with Negan. Even the one where he is surrounded, you should feel cold fear watching him get caught...but you don't, cause you know Negan won't let him get killed.

It was just a waste. The entire hour was a waste.

[Malankazooie]

Dwight watching "Who's The Boss?" was a nice touch. Because, you know, Negan is Judith Light, Dwight is Tony Danza, Dwight's wife is Alyssa Milano, and Daryl is Danny Pintauro.

I wonder who is Katherine Helmond in TWD scenario though?

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

acesn8s, on 07 November 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

Some interesting info, but not my favorite episode.

Pretty much this. You know what it's trying to accomplish but I wouldn't say it gets there with any impact.

Also QT, the song was "upbeat and kind of annoying"? I found it tortuous by the end of the episode, let alone 24 hours while deprived of sleep

[QuickTidal]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 10 November 2016 - 07:19 AM, said:

acesn8s, on 07 November 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

Some interesting info, but not my favorite episode.

Pretty much this. You know what it's trying to accomplish but I wouldn't say it gets there with any impact.

Also QT, the song was "upbeat and kind of annoying"? I found it tortuous by the end of the episode, let alone 24 hours while deprived of sleep

Lol, I was singing it afrwewards.

[Tattersail_]

The wife has added it to my Spotify playlist :/

[acesn8s]

Another necessary episode that was difficult to enjoy. Looking forward to everything starting to draw together.

[Malankazooie]

I guess. The extra 30 min. were unnecessary though. Do we really need that much time devoted to the Saviors stealing from Alexandria? The pace at which this show moves can be frustrating as hell at times.

[Mezla PigDog]

I'm wondering if Jeffrey Dean Morgan gets paid more than the other actors for all the over-acting he does in each scene.....

Thank you, I'm here all week.

I'm finding Negan boring. Yes he's the big bad but his speeches are overlong and overused. He bashes people's brains in, he doesn't need to say that much.

[QuickTidal]

Malankazooie, on 14 November 2016 - 03:36 PM, said:

I guess. The extra 30 min. were unnecessary though. Do we really need that much time devoted to the Saviors stealing from Alexandria? The pace at which this show moves can be frustrating as hell at times.

^^This. While a portion of the ep was entertaining...the glacial pace they feel the need to move at in some of these eps is completely at odds with the normal speed other eps move at. But yeah, we did not need a whole ep focused on this. This is the type of ep that REALLY pisses me off about this show, and who is running it. Guess what guys? Your audience has proven (season 2) that they are unwilling to just sit around while you lollygag out plot lines for multiple episodes. Speed it up, or lose viewers.

Is it sadistic of me to wish a slow inexorable ratings drop off due to this nonsense? I want AMC to confront Gimple and Kirkman and be like "you guys need to do better". They won't...but a man can dream.

Mezla PigDog, on 16 November 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:

I'm finding Negan boring. Yes he's the big bad but his speeches are overlong and overused. He bashes people's brains in, he doesn't need to say that much.

Indeed!

Negan is SO over the top with JDM's overacting, that I can't fathom that no one has taken him out internally yet. I mean Dwight is a prime example of someone he COMPLETELY screwed over (stole his wife, held an iron to mangle his face ect.)...and he just bends the knee. I'm sorry, if you have hundreds of people, and you treat them as Negan treats his people...SOMEONE...fucking SOMEONE is going to take that asshole out. The lack of believability of Negan is therefore the bit that urks me most. That no one in his group, or any of the groups the Saviors have "subjugated" has taken a sniper shot at him (I mean he walks around freely without fear or much of a guard)....is completely unbelievable. All you need is someone like Carol (aim wise), and a decent sniper rifle. Bango. Yeah you'd have to deal with a battle with the Saviors...but jeezus, they'd be SO headless after Negan is taken out. No one under him takes initiative as he doesn't allow it (Everyone Is Negan as he so longwindedly pointed out on the Daryl episode), so no one would be able to lead with any aplomb.

It's just stretched so far beyond credulity for me....and JDM's over the topness just is the icing on that cake. No one so ridiculously grandiose and fond of speeches...is gonna live long. But apparently Kirkman wanted a cartoonish villain that everyone just inexplicably follows....instead of doing the work to show how someone might rise to a dark power spot and hold that VIA tried an tested ways of holding power. Nope.

I would like to note that S.M. Stirling did this VERY WELL in his Emberverse series and his villain for the initial trilogy, Arminger. He had the background, the knowledge, and the forethought of tactics and politics to hold a spot of power and keep people under his sway...when I compare what Kirkman did with Negan...he pales in comparison to a level that makes him nearly invisible. Arminger is the EXACT same concept...executed well. Perhaps I'm holding Negan up to that high bar? I dunno. But yeah, he's boring as a result.

Ugh.

Sidebar: Yes, I AM beginning to hate this show...but no I'm not going to stop watching yet as I bought the seasons pass on iTunes, and I refuse to not get my money's worth. I've never "hate-watched" a show before...as I find that concept ridiculous...but this might be as close as I ever get.

[Malankazooie]

Thing is Jeffrey Dean Morgan is a good actor (see Texas Rising) but his Negan is so over the top that it journeys into the territory of being goofy. I think in the comic Negan is like that, but it just doesn't seem to transfer to television.

On another topic, I guess all the Walking Dead fanatics on the internet have a theory that Daryl was sending Rick morse code via blinking and that is one reason why he is being compliant (i.e. refused to answer when Negan asked him if he would like to stay at Alexandria when Rick made that request to Negan).

[Nicodimas]

Negan's awesome.

He's so over the top and annoying, ever notice how this happens with true fighter ( UFC : silva .. Mcgregor)

It's all in the fact of how he actually views himself untouchable and is totally crazy.

He's great and I love the overacting over the dramatic crying shit the walking dead usually does

[worry]

Caught up on the last couple. The Daryl episode was decent, the Alexandria episode was kinda boring. Who wants to bet that Father Gabriel has a feeling things will be okay because he stuffed Maggie's "grave" with something weapony?

I liked Negan in the first episode, and I think JDM's performance is okay -- his infiltration of everyone's space is very on point -- but the writing is nuts. Every single thing he says is arch as hell. How many different winking cliche phrases did he use this episode? I can see why JDM seems to be over-performing: it's hard to give a character like that personality when the dialogue is so one-note.

[Malankazooie]

I forgot about the Father Gabriel cheery outlook on things in the episode. The Talking Dead discussion show afterward was trying to guess what that was all about. Hiding something in the grave is probably the best guess of any of them.

Also the so called big reveal about Judith wasn't really all that shocking was it? I guess it was necessary for Rick to explain to Michonne why he is willing to let things (Negan's way) be their new norm.