[worry]

That was simultaneously better than I expected (in that more than nothing happened) and still pretty weak (the one person who got a new role on a highly anticipated major franchise show died -- big surprise -- but zero lieutenants of any faction died, let alone leaders).

[acesn8s]

death rattle, on 03 April 2017 - 07:04 AM, said:

That was simultaneously better than I expected (in that more than nothing happened) and still pretty weak (the one person who got a new role on a highly anticipated major franchise show died -- big surprise -- but zero lieutenants of any faction died, let alone leaders).

For a 90 minute season finale it was a "meh."

[Malankazooie]

The junk yard gang rides bicycles and drives garbage trucks. I wanted more tiger action. And how does the tiger know who to attack? Someone needs to teach them formation, especially when they are coming at each other from different positions with high powered weapons (I guess the show may have them bunched together so you can see who the leaders are barking orders?). Only one zombie in the episode, and I guess probably the best thing about the show (the zombie's back story and all - 'We lay our big meaties across the chopping block ahead of someone else's'). No cliff hanger, so I guess all the crying crybabies can't hate on the show and threaten to drop it only to see Season 8 premier break viewership records.

[Abyss]

have they left the farm yet?

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 03 April 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

have they left the farm yet?

They did, and they went....um...nowhere good.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 03 April 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

Abyss, on 03 April 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

have they left the farm yet?

They did, and they went....um...nowhere good.

And that, friends, is why i gave up on the show and stuck with the comic.
...which reminds me i should ref that in the Comics Thread....

[Malankazooie]

Well, if you would have watched you could have at least seen all the cool new trailers for all the badass upcoming movies and video games. I guess a WD season finale is a pseudo mini-super bowl event and so advertisers jump on gaining a spot during the almost 90 min finale. So you could have at least DVR'd the episode to see all the hyped badassery,.

[worry]

The King is way sillier in action than I expected. I mean he's silly, but he seems to know it in-story and that's mostly ok in the non-action scenes. But when there's gunfire all around and he's still like making kingly declarations with triple the syllables needed to get his point across, it actually kinda just sucks.

[Malankazooie]

Yeah, I'm on the same page with you.


And what about the silliness that was Michonne? I mean, was that set up just to propel Rick into defiance mode? Resulting in him looking Negan in the eye (while on his knees) and threatening yet again that he was going to kill him (and not really caring whether his actions might affect Carl's fate)?

[worry]

I dunno. Why does everyone forget that Rick is a literal crazy person. Not merely a leader under extreme pressure, but a crazy person, who talked to phantoms over the prison phone and saw literal visions of his dead wife and followed her into a zombie infested forest, and also he's stupid.

[QuickTidal]

Rating are in for the season finale. Lowest ratings the show has gotten in 5 years.

Yeah, I know they weren't worried before about spending S7 haemorrhaging viewers...because they had so many viewers...but yeah, when people don't tune into your season fucking finale....time to reassess Gimple, you knob.

[worry]

LOL at Frank Darabont's emails that helped get him fired: http://www.hollywood...mc-crew-1020426

His complaints are so on the money -- especially now 7 seasons in you see the results of this absolute train wreck -- I can't help but applaud every word.

[Malankazooie]

Isn't strange that a piece like that, which only has the purpose to rile up TWD was better when Darabont had the reins and now it sucks crowd, would be released on the same day this this is reported:

'Walking Dead' Shuts Down Production After Stuntman Injured in On-Set Accident

'Walking Dead' Stuntman On Life Support After On-Set Fall – Update

Kinda puts into perspective that there are a lot of hard working people on a show like TWD. Sure there probably is some ineptness, but no one deserves to be raged at and berated by Darabont, who comes of as a prick who needs anger management.

I dunno, and from a viewer perspective, if you think TWD was only good during Darabont's influence (S1 and part of S2) and you think it has sucked since then, why are you still watching it?

[worry]

Dang what a killjoy. Not sure what hard work has to do with anything. People worked hard on Waterworld too. But sure, there certainly are a lot of hard working people on TWD. Unfortunately, none of them are the writers. Darabont screaming into the void at bottom-line-only network execs about the fact that they screwed the show with their constant low budget shenanigans is hilarious though, and he's ultimately been proved right that they turned something ambitious and relevant into a cheap, banal mess.

And I still watch it cuz I like to see human beings being eaten by zombies -- the effects are still pretty cool from time to time -- but even that's barely happening anymore. I just hope to see it happen to Rick someday, then I can die happy.

[QuickTidal]

Malankazooie, on 14 July 2017 - 05:40 AM, said:

Kinda puts into perspective that there are a lot of hard working people on a show like TWD.

Absolutely. True of any show. Doesn't dismiss the yabos that Darabont was raging at, who were all heads of departments and management from AMC, all of whom had the power to snap the whip and didn't.

Malankazooie, on 14 July 2017 - 05:40 AM, said:

Sure there probably is some ineptness, but no one deserves to be raged at and berated by Darabont, who comes of as a prick who needs anger management.

Actually, from what I've heard this was the culmination of a season where he had his budget slashed because AMC decided to extend Season 2 from its original order of 8 eps to 13, they'd hired a bunch of younger and inexperienced writers to handle the minutiae of each story arc that Darabont had laid out because they could pay them less (understand that AMC is WELL, WELL known to be cheap assholes when it comes to pay), and directors who decided not to follow Darabont's instructions as showrunner. And again, let's not pretend that anyone getting yelled at are the actual camera people (they are the heads of those departments he's yelling at to get their people in line, not the on set workers), or stunt people, or anyone else at the base level of it.

Now, was he over the top about it? Oh, ABSOLUTELY. 100% undeniably over the top and out of line with how far he went and how rageful he got about it. But he had every right to shout at people who weren't following his instructions. That's the point of a showrunner. When people don't do that, or the show runner is not as iron fisted...you get shows like IRON FIST and Scott Buck who couldn't keep his show together in a cohesive way.

And think about this. Imagine the whole "Sophia is missing" fiasco if the show was only 8 eps for S2. You literally have what? Maybe 3 eps till they find her at the barn and she's iced by Rick as a zombie. Instead people were forced to wait 7 eps for that, and then a goddamn BREAK, and the farm was the main set piece for THIRTEEN EPISODES. That is fully on AMC for changing the game after the fact...and were I Darabont, I'd be PISSED. They totally fucked his story arc at the last minute before he could rewrite it to fit 13 episodes with a cheapish budget.

But in the end he made good points, which have now been proven out ten-fold over the seasons since he was axed by AMC as it's basically descended into the dismal, plot-hole-arific dreck writing under Gimple's ridiculous eye.

Malankazooie, on 14 July 2017 - 05:40 AM, said:

I dunno, and from a viewer perspective, if you think TWD was only good during Darabont's influence (S1 and part of S2) and you think it has sucked since then, why are you still watching it?

People can watch a show and be discerning about it. People can also watch a show and hope it gets better. But mostly people who watch after a show descends into crap is because of closure. You want to see the characters endings. And that's okay.

I personally DID stop watching in S7. Season 6 was my absolute limit for one of the worst shows on TV, and the first few eps of S7 didn't change that view so I bailed. My wife continues to watch and I'll just ask her what happened to everyone after.

For reference, the first season of TWD is tightly written, paced, acted, scored, and assembled. It's one of the finest bunch of hours of TV I've seen. The difference between what Darabont delivered and what Gimple delivered...is night and day...and day is happening in an alternate universe.

worry, on 14 July 2017 - 06:20 AM, said:

Dang what a killjoy. Not sure what hard work has to do with anything. People worked hard on Waterworld too. But sure, there certainly are a lot of hard working people on TWD. Unfortunately, none of them are the writers. Darabont screaming into the void at bottom-line-only network execs about the fact that they screwed the show with their constant low budget shenanigans is hilarious though, and he's ultimately been proved right that they turned something ambitious and relevant into a cheap, banal mess.

And I still watch it cuz I like to see human beings being eaten by zombies -- the effects are still pretty cool from time to time -- but even that's barely happening anymore. I just hope to see it happen to Rick someday, then I can die happy.

^^This. All of this.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 14 July 2017 - 12:49 PM

[Malankazooie]

QuickTidal, on 14 July 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

But mostly people who watch after a show descends into crap is because of closure. You want to see the characters endings. And that's okay.

That's kind of a straw man argument because I think even you stated that the comics are still going with no end in site. Hanging in with a show that has disgusted you for FIVE SEASONS seems like a bit much because you a looking for closure or hoping it gets better. The excuse of liking to see zombies kill and be killed is a better excuse to stay with a show you hate. I certainly wouldn't stay with a show that long though because there's only so many ways you can see zombies eat and be killed.

Believe me, I'm with most of you guys who's opinion about the show has changed. I really hated the second half of the most recent season and probably will drop it if it doesn't keep me engaged. I just think to keep harping on the Darabont thing (which has been known for some time now) is just fan boying for the good ol days. And yeah, I guess the release of his emails is noteworthy but I stand by my comment about him coming off as a prick who needs anger management. Just think if at your workplace a co-worker sent emails (regardless if it was to top executives or to low level project team members) with that kind of vitriol, you'd see that person making a visit to HR. And I know this by experience, as I had a similar thing happen at my workplace. The guilty employee was removed from the project and placed on a dead end task and low and behold, when there were routine layoffs that happened next round, guess who was walked out of the building?

[acesn8s]

Malankazooie, on 14 July 2017 - 04:40 PM, said:

Just think if at your workplace a co-worker sent emails (regardless if it was to top executives or to low level project team members) with that kind of vitriol, you'd see that person making a visit to HR. And I know this by experience, as I had a similar thing happen at my workplace. The guilty employee was removed from the project and placed on a dead end task and low and behold, when there were routine layoffs that happened next round, guess who was walked out of the building?

That was what I was thinking when I read that article. All AMC has to do is point to those emails as justification for letting him go. Darabont's lawyers have an up hill battle.

[QuickTidal]

Malankazooie, on 14 July 2017 - 04:40 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 14 July 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

But mostly people who watch after a show descends into crap is because of closure. You want to see the characters endings. And that's okay.

That's kind of a straw man argument because I think even you stated that the comics are still going with no end in site.

That was not me. I don't read the comics for TWD.

Malankazooie, on 14 July 2017 - 04:40 PM, said:

Hanging in with a show that has disgusted you for FIVE SEASONS seems like a bit much because you a looking for closure or hoping it gets better. The excuse of liking to see zombies kill and be killed is a better excuse to stay with a show you hate. I certainly wouldn't stay with a show that long though because there's only so many ways you can see zombies eat and be killed.

And that's why my comments are that it has been a slow descent into mediocre writing SINCE Darabont left. It didn't all the sudden turn to shit in S3 Episode 1, it took a fair amount of time. I didn't actually notice the major decline in the writing and execution till around the mid-point of S5.

Malankazooie, on 14 July 2017 - 04:40 PM, said:

And yeah, I guess the release of his emails is noteworthy but I stand by my comment about him coming off as a prick who needs anger management. Just think if at your workplace a co-worker sent emails (regardless if it was to top executives or to low level project team members) with that kind of vitriol, you'd see that person making a visit to HR. And I know this by experience, as I had a similar thing happen at my workplace. The guilty employee was removed from the project and placed on a dead end task and low and behold, when there were routine layoffs that happened next round, guess who was walked out of the building?

There are a few things at play here that are different from your average job and an HR fiasco though. The people he was yelling at were largely his peers at AMC who pony up the dough for his show, and in some cases the heads of departments ostensibly under him but still kind of at his level...but for the most part this would be like yelling at your boss or partner and not an deep underling per say. As such this would not exactly be the type of thing to refer to an HR entity, but a spat between the higher up people running the show. And in this case the only thing that AMC can hold over Darabonts head (remember that this show was his baby, he brought it to AMC) is the money...which is why in the end they were able to fire him.

So yeah, under normal circumstances this would be a quick "HR walk them out" sitch...the fundamental way that this type of production works and the players parts in it, makes that much more difficult. It also is not in AMC's best interest to cross him like that because he was given a budget, and a timeframe, and a set of episodes to complete the writing for...all of which he dutifully did...and they pulled the rug out from under him at the 11th hour by slashing the budget and adding 5 more episodes to fill...and my GUESS is that his contract with them stipulated that this was a no-no...and that's why firing him was their only viable option to keep things moving...and it's LIKELY why Darabont sued them for 280mil, for breaching agreed upon terms about the show.

So there's FAR more here to unpack than a typical freakout.

Yeah, he was wrong to flip out how he did. But I maintain his reasons for freaking out are not only sound, but required... that AMC fucked him over in a way that may see them feeling the pain from this lawsuit in a bigger way (other auteurs not wanting to sell shows to their network) than they think. Add the stuntman's death to that...the production halted...Gimple is going to have a hard go of it now I think.

[Malankazooie]

QuickTidal, on 14 July 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

Malankazooie, on 14 July 2017 - 04:40 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 14 July 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

But mostly people who watch after a show descends into crap is because of closure. You want to see the characters endings. And that's okay.

That's kind of a straw man argument because I think even you stated that the comics are still going with no end in site.

That was not me. I don't read the comics for TWD.

EXHIBIT A

EXHIBIT B

Quote

EDIT: Hoisted this from the TOR review of the ep....and it's very fitting for how I feel.

Kirkman's zombie apocalypse is designed to never end. While that seemed exciting in the first season, in the seventh it's become a repetitive cycle of find a sanctuary, bicker with those already living there, get attacked by outsiders, destroy the sanctuary, spend time on the road, find a sanctuary, and on and on and on. In the absence of thematic tension, character development, or emotional growth is empty shock and torture porn-esque gore.

To the administrators of Malazanempire: the search is a hot mess of garbage. Is there anything that can be done to make it better? I know it's being bitchy and winey on my part, but damn, if it could be improved a little that would put a smile on my face.

[Malankazooie]

SDCC Trailer for S8

Lets line em up:
* You hate on it prominent and vociferous Malazan Empire member #1
* You hate on it prominent and vociferous Malazan Empire member #2
* You hate on it prominent and vociferous Malazan Empire member #3
. . .
Go!