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Fitness and weightlifting Lets do this you spineless wimps

#41 User is offline   Slow Ben 

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 03:26 AM

Black Winged Lord said:

1323654162[/url]' post='913973']
Cheers guys, just reading through all this has given me the motivation to get off my arse and back on the wagon again after a couple of years.

Gonna aim to lose about 10-15kg to begin with, lots of cardio, then look at a weights program to put some back in the right places.


Unless you just really like cardio, you'll burn more calories doing weights than you will in the same amount of time doing cardio. And continues burning calories after the workout.
Good luck losin the weight!
I've always been crazy but its kept me from going insane.
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#42 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 07:36 AM

Ever heard of the Diesel Weasel? There's a ton of his videos collected on youtube with AMAZINGLY shitty form, check them out:



The interesting thing is that after getting laughed off the internet, he returned years later after having joined a proper gym with much better results and even competed at events:



Here's an article he did on his experience and the things he learned:

http://www.muscleand...sel-weasel.html
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#43 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 08:51 PM

Did our new programme today. Feels good man.

I learned the hard way why the SS an SL programmes say you should do 5 sets of 1 rep deadlifts. Tried doing 5 sets of 5 reps. First one was hard. Second one I was out of breath and had to lie down for 30 seconds. 3rd one I felt nauseas. 4th one I did one rep and I gave up. Holy shit that was hard after 5 sets of squats.

Next time I'll do 1 rep per set. Means I can go much heavier as well.

Programma A: Monday 12/12/11

Squat 5x85 -> not really that heavy but very taxing on the whole system.
Strict Military Press 5x35
Deadlift 4x110 -> 5 sets in this exercise is not feasable. Will go down to 1 rep per set next time.
Benchpress 5x80
Pull-ups 4xbodyweight (87 kgs) still not quite strong enough here.
Dips 4xbodyweight (87)
Leg Extension 4x75 -> easy did a last set with 85
Triceps extensions 4 x ez-bar plus 30.

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 12 December 2011 - 09:50 PM

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#44 User is offline   Cougar 

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 12:14 PM

View PostCocoreturns, on 09 December 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

I keep saying similar to the two guys I train with, who get annoyed that even though i'm littler than them (they're both comfortably over 6 foot, i'm 5-10 or so) I lift the same as them.


Coco (and Apt), you speak the truth mate. I've just started (9 weeks in) working out with my mate after a very long hiatus (5 -6 years) including several false starts. We change up every 6 weeks to different regimes but it always follows the logic that we do all the pushing on one day (triceps, chest, shoulders(front)) then all the pulling (back, biceps and traps') then a leg day. Then, start again. We're both busy PhD students in our final year with a lot of commitments in writing and teaching, but getting back in the gym has added a great deal of structure to our lives and we both feel generally happier.

When we change programmes I insist on keeping some core exercises, because I maintain that you have to be competitive with yourself and seeing those imporvements and striving to get better is a huge motivator. To this end we maintain free dips, bench press, deadlifts and preacher curls all the time, rotating around these (legs are always the same due to rather limited equipment). With the exception of free dips (do as many as possible- cos it feels great) I try to do 3 sets of 8 on each exercise (typically though, I fail at 6 or 7 on the last set). As soon as I can do do more than 8 on the last set, I switch up a weight - it makes it a real test and gives me real satisfaction. As Coco/Apt allude to, I think this mental 'perk' is key to how I think about gym work.

Essentially I'm a big chap, not especially tall (5ft 10), but I'm very bulky (usually around 15 stone) I'm naturally strong and compact and have played rugby since the 1990s. I can put on strength and muscle mass with relative ease, but I struggle for tone (not that arsed really) because I like beer and don't like cardio (except rugby). My mate Tom - who is my workout buddy - is much leaner, nowhere near as strong, has to take protein supplements (but eats better than I do), but after 9 weeks is getting crazy definition (as well as some mass). Because there is no contest at all between us (for example I'm benching 85kgs to his 60kgs and going up about 5kg every 2-3 weeks at this point) we are both really good for each other in the gym, there is loads of positive energy, he encourages my goals and I his without that shitty personal competitiion you get with guys who are too similar.
I AM A TWAT
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#45 User is offline   tiam 

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 05:35 PM

View PostAptorius, on 12 December 2011 - 08:51 PM, said:

Did our new programme today. Feels good man.

I learned the hard way why the SS an SL programmes say you should do 5 sets of 1 rep deadlifts. Tried doing 5 sets of 5 reps. First one was hard. Second one I was out of breath and had to lie down for 30 seconds. 3rd one I felt nauseas. 4th one I did one rep and I gave up. Holy shit that was hard after 5 sets of squats.

Next time I'll do 1 rep per set. Means I can go much heavier as well.

Programma A: Monday 12/12/11

Squat 5x85 -> not really that heavy but very taxing on the whole system.
Strict Military Press 5x35
Deadlift 4x110 -> 5 sets in this exercise is not feasable. Will go down to 1 rep per set next time.
Benchpress 5x80
Pull-ups 4xbodyweight (87 kgs) still not quite strong enough here.
Dips 4xbodyweight (87)
Leg Extension 4x75 -> easy did a last set with 85
Triceps extensions 4 x ez-bar plus 30.


SL is 1 set of 5 reps on max weight after warm ups I think. I agree I tried 5x5 DL and it isnt feasible especially after squats.
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#46 User is offline   Coco with marshmallows 

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 09:01 PM

my gym is shutting today for a fortnight. God damn university gyms.

in the meantime:

5*5 clean and press @ 45 kilo
2*5 bench @ 60 kilo
2*5 bench @ 65 kilo
1*5 bench @ 70 kilo

5 sets of:
5 chin ups & 5 pull ups, going to full extension on elbows - no bend allowed at lowest point (I weigh circa 70/75 kilos)
meh. Link was dead :(
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#47 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 10:28 PM

Good to see Cougar chipping in. What is you leg work Cougar if it is limited? Squats? Legpress?

I can see I forgot to add what my starting weights were on the pull day. I've already increased these by a good margain but they looked like this a couple weeks ago:

Squat 5x90
Pull-ups: 5xbody weight
Deadlift 5x1x120
BOB Rows: 5x60
Bench: 4x82,5
Upright Row: 4x30
Leg Curls: 4x50
Barbell Curls: 4x30

My partner has decided that he hates the programme and will be doing a 5 split programme instead and focusing on running... the big girl. Very well then, Alone.

I am considering changing my squat and deadlift set up. I feel that I am short changing my deadlift by only doing the 1 rep lifts. I wonder if it would be feasible to do a day where I do 5x5 squat and 5x1 deadlift and another day where I do 5x5 deadlift and 5x1 squat. I've never dabbled in doing 1 rep squats before. There is a bit more risk involved in going heavy with squats than with deadlifts. Also my hips and knees are crying just thinking of maxing out squats.

After tomorrows lift I am taking a week off lifting between Christmas and New years. I think the body will appreciate that. Doing heavy sets of 5 is taking its toll on the joints. I am not 20 years old any longer.
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#48 User is offline   JLV 

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 11:21 PM

Took a break this week for vacation.. thinking maybe it was a bad idea.
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#49 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 04:36 AM

View PostJLV, on 22 December 2011 - 11:21 PM, said:

Took a break this week for vacation.. thinking maybe it was a bad idea.

Bodyweight exercises. Burpees, sprints, pull-ups etc.

Or have sex as much as humanly possible. Your choice.
I survived the Permian and all I got was this t-shirt.
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#50 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 07:26 AM

If you've been working out regularly for months, a weeks vacation is actually better for you than a week of workouts. It gives the body time to recuperate. It lets your body catch up on its repair work on your muscles and bones and lets it replenish its energy. When you begin lifting again you may see some clear improvements across the board.

My last training session this year is today, I wont be lifting again before Monday the 2nd. I am going to do nothing but showing meat and potatoes into my face for 9 days. It is going to be glorious.

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 23 December 2011 - 07:27 AM

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#51 User is offline   Sindriss 

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 09:02 AM

I don't understand why you are so focused on maxing out on the big core exercises Apt. Especially, if you are relatively new to the gym as I could read from your original post. When you go for the heavy weights with low reps, your risks of injury are that much higher. And since you are relatively new, I would say that there are a pretty high risk of you doing the exercise wrong. No offense, but there are a lot of people who does it wrong and then begin piling on injuries. And this is especially true with DL and squat.

I am unsure what BOB rows is and a google search didn't help me much. I would imagine that it is a shoulder exercise?

Anyway, as I love fitness I would gladly chip in on this topic and support anyone who might have questions. I'm 173 cm, and weight 79 kg. Im generally pretty lean and have the 4 pack on a good day.

Quote

I would like to know if Steve have ever tasted anything like the quorl white milk, that knocked the bb's out.

A: Nope, but I gots me a good imagination.
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#52 User is offline   Sindriss 

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 09:14 AM

@JLV - Nothing wrong with Hammercurls by the way, it is an excellent biceps exercise and varience is always key with regards to training.

Apt, I would also recommend using bodybuilding.dk - the forum is so and so, with some morons and some very knowledgeable people, but the articles written are fantastic and well researched. I have had a lot of positive outcome and knowledge from reading the various articles and incorporating it in my workout.

Quote

I would like to know if Steve have ever tasted anything like the quorl white milk, that knocked the bb's out.

A: Nope, but I gots me a good imagination.
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#53 User is offline   Cougar 

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 12:20 PM

View PostAptorius, on 22 December 2011 - 10:28 PM, said:

Good to see Cougar chipping in. What is you leg work Cougar if it is limited? Squats? Legpress?


I'll maybe update my upper body stuff some other time, my leg work out is this:

First two exercises on the Smith Machine - I use this for safety since I sometimes have to do legs alone. I do 3 sets of 8 because I aim for strength, but strength that fits in with my Rugby playing. The last set I usually fail at about 7

Squats 3X8 - 120kgs
Calf Raises (using the Smith and one of those Reebok Step things) 3X8 100kgs

Leg Extensions 3x8 60kg
Hamstring extensions 3 x8 60kg
(these are machines - because they are essentially the reverse of each other to try and maintain an equivalent strength in the opposing muscles I do the same weight on each. This is an attempt to avoid injury since I do a lot of dead sprinting from a standing start if I'm playing rugby)

Leg Press Machine (calves and quads in different sets) 100kgs 8 x 3

All this is primarily for explosive, repeatable strength over 80 mins on the rugby pitch. I'm not interested in definition etc, it's functional.

Due to a lot of old leg injuries I have to be rather careful on all of these exercises.
I AM A TWAT
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#54 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 01:03 PM

View PostSindriss, on 23 December 2011 - 09:02 AM, said:

I don't understand why you are so focused on maxing out on the big core exercises Apt. Especially, if you are relatively new to the gym as I could read from your original post. When you go for the heavy weights with low reps, your risks of injury are that much higher. And since you are relatively new, I would say that there are a pretty high risk of you doing the exercise wrong. No offense, but there are a lot of people who does it wrong and then begin piling on injuries. And this is especially true with DL and squat.


Oh, I'm technically a newb in terms of my muscle and strength development, but I worked out regularly for 4 years when I was in "gymnasiet". I am relatively knowledgeable and I have retained a lot of muscle memory. I have no problems with my form in Squat and deadlifts.

As for my rather ambitious programme. Go big or go home.

View PostSindriss, on 23 December 2011 - 09:02 AM, said:

I am unsure what BOB rows is and a google search didn't help me much. I would imagine that it is a shoulder exercise?


Bent over Barbell row. Sorry, got a bit creative in my abbreviations there. It's a great exercise.

View PostSindriss, on 23 December 2011 - 09:02 AM, said:

@JLV - Nothing wrong with Hammercurls by the way, it is an excellent biceps exercise and varience is always key with regards to training.


Hammer curls have their merit in the right programme but for over all biceps training doing a hammer curl would be very low on my list of recommended exercises. They're great if you've got a bad wrist though.

View PostSindriss, on 23 December 2011 - 09:02 AM, said:

Apt, I would also recommend using bodybuilding.dk - the forum is so and so, with some morons and some very knowledgeable people, but the articles written are fantastic and well researched. I have had a lot of positive outcome and knowledge from reading the various articles and incorporating it in my workout.


Yeah, I've been in there. BB.dk is filled with a lot of bro-science, it's not really my taste. Last time I went by there I saw a thread with people beratting a new guy for doing proper bent over barbell rows and advising him to do Yeats rows instead because " he could lift more weight that way"... god damn @%!+#§
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#55 User is offline   Sindriss 

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 01:52 PM

With regards to BB.dk - Completely agree, a lot of broscience on the forum. But the articles are damn good. And certainly valid.

Hammer curls are also great if you have issues with your forearm muscles. I often have to switch back and forth just because of my right forearm.


Overall, I think it is a pretty solid programme you are using. But if it is meant to pack on more muscles, there are more effective ways than doing 5x1 imo. Of course there are a wide range of factors involved when building up muscle volume and one should never count out beginners gains, those are great :D

I myself went with the heavy weights for a longer period of time (below 5 reps per set) and I found great gains by focusing more on tut (time under tension).

Quote

I would like to know if Steve have ever tasted anything like the quorl white milk, that knocked the bb's out.

A: Nope, but I gots me a good imagination.
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#56 User is offline   JLV 

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 06:53 PM

I started doing hammer curls in the first place because of a wrist injury. I've been fine doing normal curls and barbell curls (which were the worst) lately, so I haven't felt the need for hammers.
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#57 User is offline   Shinrei 

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 11:01 PM

Recommend me a program.

I'm already a runner, so the cardio is taken care of and I've got legs of steel. But I've neglected my upper body too long.

What I want: Increased strength and tone.
What I don't want: Muscles that look 'big'.

I have access to a really old gym at my school, which only has free weights. I would have time to go there twice a week for sure, 3 times would probably be difficult with my schedule. I also have some sets of resistance bands at home of various tensions that I can use anytime while watching TV or whatever. I've learned how to do about a dozen exercises using those, targeting various muscles.

Recommendations on a routine/schedule?

This post has been edited by Shinrei: 23 December 2011 - 11:02 PM

Youíve never heard of the Silanda? Ö Itís the ship that made the Warren of Telas run in less than 12 parsecs.
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#58 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 08:43 AM

Muscles that look big develop over time. When you feel that you are starting to look too "Buff" just cut down on your training. With a two day training programme you will certainly not start to look like Vin Diesel over night. It will be a gradual progress. If you're already skinny/have a low body fat, the "toned" look will emerge and then slowly grow into defined muscle. If you're chubby all the weight training in the world will not make you look toned before you get your bodyfat percentage down.

I personally do not hold resistance bands in high regard. I know they can be effective but really, if you want to develop proper functional strength and muscles, you're going to get nowhere with bands. Bands are are for women with low upper body strength, people with injuries or people who watch too much TV-shop. You'll get much better results with bodyweight exercises and barbells and dumbbells.

Now before I lay out a suggestion of exercises, it sounds like you're not really that interested in lifting lots of heavy stuff, so you might like a programme called Convict Condititioning. Try and google it. There are books and lots of videos on it. Basically it is based around using your own bodyweight and your surroundings to make yourself stronger and more fit. This might be what you are looking for.

Now lets see.

In this gym I assume you have both Barbells and Dumbbells? Do you have a rack you can place the barbell in so that you can do Squats, shoulder presses and the like? Do you have any machines? Like a cable tower? Or machine for leg extensions and leg curls?

Do you have any injuries or problem areas like a bad joint, damaged muscles, weak lower back, etc?

If you've got two days a week I'd recommend doing a full body programme but you could also do a 2 split programme.

It might look something like this, if you have the equipment.

FULLBODY

(You sound like you're more interested in training your upper body than your lower, so I made this simple.)

Squat 4 set of 10 repetitions
Military press - 4x10
Pull Ups - Do as many as you can for three sets or if you have weights put some of those on.
Benchpress 4x10
Dumbbell row. 4x10

If you want to give your arms a little more love throw in these two:

Barbell Curls or Dumbbell curls 3x10
Lying triceps extensions with a barbell or cable triceps extensions 3x10

2 SPLIT PROGRAMME (I assume you have a few machines around you otherwise this needs to be modified)

A

Squat
Legextension machine
Military press
Lateral raise
Benchpress
Pullover
Dips
Triceps extensions

B

Deadlift
Hyper extensions
Legcurl machine
Pull ups or pull downs
Dumbbel Rows
Upright Row
Dumbbell curls.
Reverse grip barbell curls

I am too lazy to link videos or gifs of every exercise here but if you do some googling and use youtube there are plenty of videos showing how to do these exercises properly. (Do not watch bodybuilding videos. These monsters are genetic freaks fuelled by enough steroids to get a football team to the Superbowl. You'll get no where trying to do what they do)

In terms of repetitions, sets and weight used you can make your own choices. Generally if you use low reps 4-6 you're focusing on strength, if you use 8-12 you're focusing on hypertrophy (muscle building) if you do more than that, say 12-15, you're working on your endurance. There is no reason to do more reps than these. They wont make you more "toned" or more fit. They're a waste of energy. None of these rep ranges are going to make you more or less toned for that you need to have a low body fat percentage.

Now you could just use the same weight for all your sets but a lot of beginners benefit from a rep and weight pyramid. As you progress through your sets you increase the weight but lower the amount of reps.

Say you do
12 reps of 50 kg squats
10 reps of 60 kg
8 reps of 70 kg
6 reps of 80 kg

That is just a template. You need to do the adjustments yourself.

I'll be away from the forum until the 28th so I wont be able to get back to your before then.

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 24 December 2011 - 08:59 AM

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#59 User is offline   Shinrei 

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 11:33 AM

Thanks Apt.

To be honest, I was hoping to supplement 2 days a week with the bands. I had a friend who gave a pretty convincing argument that doing just weights/machines makes you strong when doing those specific exercises, but that they dont' give you a really well-rounded functional strength. So I am hoping bands + heavybag + 2days weights would be a nice mix.

Or am I out on a limb here?

I like the convict conditioning concept.

This post has been edited by Shinrei: 24 December 2011 - 11:34 AM

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#60 User is offline   Coco with marshmallows 

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 01:58 PM

View PostShinrei, on 24 December 2011 - 11:33 AM, said:

I had a friend who gave a pretty convincing argument that doing just weights/machines makes you strong when doing those specific exercises, but that they dont' give you a really well-rounded functional strength.


If you're just using machines, then yes to a certain extent that's true, largely because of the various pulleys/flywheels used.

but using free weights - no. Hell no.

Seriously, if that were true then only weightlifters would lift weights. But any serious athlete in any sport you can name can and does use free weights for strength training.

Frankly, anybody who can, for example, deadlift, say, 300lbs is going to be a pretty strong son of a bitch compared to someone who doesn't lift.
meh. Link was dead :(
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