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Fitness and weightlifting Lets do this you spineless wimps

#21 User is offline   Coco with marshmallows 

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:18 PM

Mark Rippetoe is awesome.

funny as hell too.

Some quotes:

"We knew the chickenshit motherfuckers were going to pirate us no matter how cheap we made the DVD, and that there would be chickenshit motherfuckers who would steal it. Can't be helped without a massive eugenics program."

"Yes, if you squat wrong it fucks things up. If you squat correctly, those same fucked-up things will unfuck themselves."

"And the book is not any more expensive in Australia than it is here except for the shipping, which is what you get for living in Australia."

Responding to someone who wanted the book spoon fed to them:
"Steve, buddy, the plan is in the fucking book. That's what the book is about. That's why I wrote the book. This is a Q&A for people who are already using the plan IN THE FUCKING BOOK. Get it, read it, and use it. Really, the book is too long to post here. Get the fucking book."

"...what should my ideal body weight be for this program? Have you made a table for this, or what do you recommend?" - trainee
"Your ideal bodyweight as an ectomorph at 6' 0" will be 214.378 lbs. There. Happy? And if you lose or gain a pound, I will have you killed. It is important to be ideal.." - Rip, in response

"There is no such thing as “firming and toning.” There is only stronger and weaker."

On the ethics of meat eating:
"Okay, have you ever been around chickens? They are stupid, uncooperative, inconvenient, ill-tempered creatures. They get what they deserve. Fuck chickens."



seriously, look his stuff up.

it regularly has me laughing my ass off.
meh. Link was dead :(
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#22 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 09:24 AM

View Posttiam, on 16 November 2011 - 09:41 PM, said:

Mehdi comes across as a bit late night infomercial its not just you that thinks that either. The programme itself is solid though and gives a bit more upper body stuff that seems to please those shifting from a bobybuilding to strength building styles. While Stronglifts promises you the world with all the success stories on the website etc I can say from personal experience I made more gains (weightloss,muscle definition,general muscle growth and ofc strength gains) on Stronglift 5x5 than I did for like 2 years of Bodybuilding style. Do the workout as its set down rather than tinkering and if youve still got some energy at the end throw in some isolated arm work. It all about squats and squats=fatloss because of the overall taxing of your entire body. I big and still lost bodyfat while doing it.

I dontknow whether hes changed it but it was 5x5 Squats, Bench, 3xFail Barbell Rows (I tended to do 5x5 when it got heavier like 80-90KG) with 3xfail on dips (which I think is weighted press ups now because people on the site claimed shoulder pain was stopping them doing it). Workout B is Squats,OHP 5x5, 1x5 DL I think, then Pullups/chinups fo 3 sets of fail


The problem I have with his language in the descriptions and e-mails (I signed up just to see what this stuff was about) is that he spouting a lot of bullshit and propaganda to convince people. This seems like a disingenuous way to wheel in newbies and an easy way to piss of more experienced weightlifters like myself. When he constantly shits on bodybuilding routines, isolation exercises and claims that everyone who does split programmes are on steroids it makes you a little bit pissed.

I mean any programme will have some success if you just push yourself and eat right and get rest.

View Posttiam, on 16 November 2011 - 09:41 PM, said:

Starting strength is obviously what Mehdi used as a base for stronglifts. Rip is a legend in the strength building world. The only problem with SS is that it it includes powercleans and my techique has always been shifty hence why I preferred Stronglifts.


I've never done any kind of olympic exercises like powercleans or their assistance exercises, simply because nobody in my old gym did them, but I've been considering getting into them just see how it feels. They're a bit intimidating when you don't have any experience and you're used to training with static movements and strict form. When I tire of the 5x5 programme I reckon I will look them up.

View Posttiam, on 16 November 2011 - 09:41 PM, said:

Anyway first thing is to get your squat depth and technique right so start light on the bar (60KG if youve trained them before) and work your way at a 2.5 increases. Doesnt sound like alot but the weight goes on quick and if you prgress more youll stall quicker. Trust me ive tried.


Yeah, the whole reason why I don't want to stick to the Strong lifts programme is that I already know the exercises and my form is good (enough). I tried out the programme I posted on the other page, with the added exercises, last weekend just to see how they feel and if it was too many exercises and too much volume, but it seemed fine. The question is of course how it holds up when the weights increase.

I'm curious about the weight increments though. Are you supposed to add 2,5 kilos every session or every week?

View Posttiam, on 16 November 2011 - 09:41 PM, said:

Also try the 70sbig Strength and conditioning programme for more info.


Yeah, I just stumbled on their site. Haven't had time to look into that programme yet but they have some entertaining videos.

View PostCocoreturns, on 16 November 2011 - 10:18 PM, said:

Mark Rippetoe is awesome.

funny as hell too.

---

seriously, look his stuff up.

it regularly has me laughing my ass off.


Yeah, I love this video: http://vimeo.com/25531302

Also he has some great remarks in this Q&A for 70s big: http://vimeo.com/6425984

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 17 November 2011 - 09:25 AM

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#23 User is offline   Pig Iron 

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 10:23 PM

Rippetoe is great. Check out Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 book too. His NOV concept is the best thing that ever happened to my training.
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#24 User is offline   Coco with marshmallows 

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 11:44 PM

View PostPig Iron, on 18 November 2011 - 10:23 PM, said:

Rippetoe is great. Check out Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 book too. His NOV concept is the best thing that ever happened to my training.



Looks interesting. Might try that. Cheers for the info PI
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#25 User is offline   JLV 

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 01:59 AM

Usually I don't do the same routine, but I'm going to put this here as a personal note that I can add to so I don't forget.

I need help with what to fill in my workout with, and advice on existing things if you see something wrong.

Rec-center

Monday:
10x3 Chest press 220lbs (+10lb asap)
10x3 Tricep pulldown 150lbs (+2 reps asap)
10x3 Tricep pulldown machine 180 - 170 - 160 (Maintain 180 asap)
10x3 Hammer Curls 35 lbs (+lbs asap)
8x6 Pullups/Chinups alternating (Maintain all 8 more often asap)
10x3 bench press 180 lbs (+lbs asap)

Tuesday:
10x3 Chest press 220lbs (+10lb asap)
50 pushups - 50 crunches - 50 situps - 20 triangle pushups - 30 each of two other ab exercises that I don't know the names of - 30 decline situps, left side, 30 right side, 30 middle, 10 reps in ab machine, 80lbs. Repeat circuit x3 (Less breaks asap)

Wednesday:
Legs day. I don't have any idea what to do. I usually do back exercises and some leg machines because I don't know any good exercises.

Thursday:
10x3 Chest press 220lbs (+10lb asap)
10x3 Tricep pulldown 150lbs (+2 reps asap)
10x3 Tricep pulldown machine 180 - 170 - 160 (Maintain 180 asap)
10x3 Hammer Curls 35 lbs (+lbs asap)
8x6 Pullups/Chinups alternating (Maintain all 8 more often asap)
10x3 bench press 180 lbs (+lbs asap)

Friday:
10x3 Chest press 220lbs (+10lb asap)
10x3 Tricep pulldown 150lbs (+2 reps asap)
10x3 Tricep pulldown machine 180 - 170 - 160 (Maintain 180 asap)
50 pushups - 50 crunches - 50 situps - 20 triangle pushups - 30 each of two other ab exercises that I don't know the names of - 30 decline situps, left side, 30 right side, 30 middle, 10 reps in ab machine, 80lbs. Repeat circuit x3 (Less breaks asap)
10x3 bench press 180 lbs (+lbs asap)

Sat/sun: No lifting. Is this bad? I could find time on most Saturdays, but not Sundays.

Any helpful comments?
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#26 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 06:11 AM

I drunk right now, as MMA was glorious tonight, but you have no squats or deadlifts in there. This is bad. Also quit hammer curls.

WIll critique better tmrw. Promise.
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#27 User is offline   Slow Ben 

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 07:09 AM

@JLV

First, your doing waaaay too much of the same stuff.

If you do chest on monday, you shouldn't do it again till at wed. Thurs if you really, really got after it.

Plus, you've got too much chest and not enough back. Do either chest or bench press and swap out the other for some type of row or lat pulldown.

And to go along with Amp, just do regular curls. And get some legs and lower back in there. Squats, lunges, deadlifts.


TBH, you really need to completely overhaul that workout. Get every body part involved and a lot more core.
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#28 User is offline   Coco with marshmallows 

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 11:31 AM

also @ JLV - how much of that stuff is on machines, and how much is done with free weights?

Also, BIG second to Amph's points - no squats or deadlifts. you want to get stronger you NEED these exercises.
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#29 User is offline   JLV 

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 04:58 PM

View Postamphibian, on 20 November 2011 - 06:11 AM, said:

I drunk right now, as MMA was glorious tonight, but you have no squats or deadlifts in there. This is bad. Also quit hammer curls.

WIll critique better tmrw. Promise.


Everything I know about weight lifting I taught myself. So be gentle with these questions.

What's wrong with hammer curls? I've always done them after I injured my wrists doing normal curls a few years back.
I don't know how to do squats or deadlifts. But if they're that important, I can watch some form videos on youtube or something.

View PostSlow Ben, on 20 November 2011 - 07:09 AM, said:

@JLV

First, your doing waaaay too much of the same stuff.

If you do chest on monday, you shouldn't do it again till at wed. Thurs if you really, really got after it.

Plus, you've got too much chest and not enough back. Do either chest or bench press and swap out the other for some type of row or lat pulldown.

And to go along with Amp, just do regular curls. And get some legs and lower back in there. Squats, lunges, deadlifts.


TBH, you really need to completely overhaul that workout. Get every body part involved and a lot more core.


Is this better?

Monday: I chose to keep chest press because that's a machine, and I don't need a spotter to lift a high weight.
10x3 Chest press 220lbs (+10lb asap)
10x3 Lat pulldowns (idk the weight yet)
10x3 Tricep pulldown 150lbs (+2 reps asap)
10x3 Tricep pulldown machine 180 - 170 - 160 (Maintain 180 asap)
10x3 Dumbbell Curls 35 lbs (+lbs asap)
8x6 Pullups/Chinups alternating (Maintain all 8 more often asap)


Tuesday: Am I missing anything here? Or should this be on a different day?
50 pushups - 50 crunches - 50 situps - 20 triangle pushups - 30 each of two other ab exercises that I don't know the names of - 3 different plank positions - 30 decline situps, left side, 30 right side, 30 middle, 10 reps in ab machine, 80lbs. Repeat circuit x3 (Less breaks asap)

Wednesday: What else?
Squats
Deadlifts
Leg machines

Thursday:
10x3 Chest press 220lbs (+10lb asap)
10x3 Lat pulldowns (idk the weight yet)
10x3 Tricep pulldown 150lbs (+2 reps asap)
10x3 Tricep pulldown machine 180 - 170 - 160 (Maintain 180 asap)
10x3 Dumbbell Curls 35 lbs (+lbs asap)
8x6 Pullups/Chinups alternating (Maintain all 8 more often asap)

Friday: I like to go balls to the wall on friday because of the weekend break to cool down, and I have more time in the gym. Anything wrong here?
10x3 Chest press 220lbs (+10lb asap)
10x3 Tricep pulldown 150lbs (+2 reps asap)
10x3 Tricep pulldown machine 180 - 170 - 160 (Maintain 180 asap)
10x3 Lat pull down
Deadlift
Squats
50 pushups - 50 crunches - 50 situps - 20 triangle pushups - 30 each of two other ab exercises that I don't know the names of - 30 decline situps, left side, 30 right side, 30 middle, 10 reps in ab machine, 80lbs. Repeat circuit x3 (Less breaks asap)
10x3 bench press 180 lbs (+lbs asap)

Sat/sun: No lifting. Is this bad? I could find time on most Saturdays, but not Sundays.

View PostCocoreturns, on 20 November 2011 - 11:31 AM, said:

also @ JLV - how much of that stuff is on machines, and how much is done with free weights?

Also, BIG second to Amph's points - no squats or deadlifts. you want to get stronger you NEED these exercises.


Everything that I say is machine is a machine. Chest press is as well. The pulldown exercises are, but I don't know any alternative. Skullcrushers have never worked for me.

Thanks for the help people! Sorry if I'm being dumb.
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#30 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 06:50 PM

EDIT: Long post is long. Just a warning, some of my remarks are tongue in cheek.

Some initial questions that will probably help develop some suggestions and critique:

Are you a guy or a girl? ( I am assuming a guy otherwise you have a really strong upper body)

What is your height, weight and age?

Do you have any prior injuries or other circumstances that may affect your training?

Did you just start working out or do you have prior experience? If so how long have you been working out?

What are you training for? Is this connected with some other sport activity or martial art?

Is the primary focus getting bigger, I. E put on some weight and muscle? Or is the intention to lose weight perhaps?

Do you want to get bigger, stronger, faster or a combination of all of the above?

For the purpose of this post I am assuming you are a rookie.

If you're working out in a proper gym do you have access to trainers that can show you the ropes?

View PostJLV, on 20 November 2011 - 01:59 AM, said:

Usually I don't do the same routine, but I'm going to put this here as a personal note that I can add to so I don't forget.

I need help with what to fill in my workout with, and advice on existing things if you see something wrong.


My first suggestion would be to pick a programme and stick with it for 6-8 weeks. See what it is doing for you. Maybe change it up or choose a new programme after that. Doing different exercises or reps every time you work out is not a good idea when you're just learning the basics. Muscle confusion which is what you're toying with is only advisable when your body and mind has matured to a level where you're in peak condition and know your body's strengths and weakness.

View PostJLV, on 20 November 2011 - 01:59 AM, said:

Monday:
10x3 Chest press 220lbs (+10lb asap)
10x3 Tricep pulldown 150lbs (+2 reps asap)
10x3 Tricep pulldown machine 180 - 170 - 160 (Maintain 180 asap)
10x3 Hammer Curls 35 lbs (+lbs asap)
8x6 Pullups/Chinups alternating (Maintain all 8 more often asap)
10x3 bench press 180 lbs (+lbs asap)


Like the other guys mention above your programme is all fucked up. You're training secondary muscle groups before primary ones and using machines where you should be using free weights and all in all the priority of the muscle groups are jumbled.

I'm not sure what chestpress is but I'm assuming it's a machine? Ditch that bitch. I can see you have benchpress on there. That is going to be your main chest exercise from here on in, do it with a barbell or a dumbbell.

I am not sure what a triceps pull down is either but I bet it is some kind of pull over machine am I right? Not a bad exercise but once again I would do that one lying on a bench using a heavy dumbbell.

Drop the hammer curls they put too much emphasis on your forearm and not enough on the actual biceps.

Good to see you doing pull ups instead of using a machine but you want to train something like your chest and back before you train your triceps and biceps since the latter are just the muscles that assist your bigger muscle groups which we for ease of understanding with name your back, thighs and chest.

View PostJLV, on 20 November 2011 - 01:59 AM, said:

Tuesday:
10x3 Chest press 220lbs (+10lb asap)
50 pushups - 50 crunches - 50 situps - 20 triangle pushups - 30 each of two other ab exercises that I don't know the names of - 30 decline situps, left side, 30 right side, 30 middle, 10 reps in ab machine, 80lbs. Repeat circuit x3 (Less breaks asap)


First of all if you're doing 50 proper push-ups you must be one strong and skinny motherfucker which is a good basis to work on.

Second of all you've got waaay too much volume in there. Quality over quantity is what you want to strive for when working out. Your lower back and abs and obliques, what I would call your "core" does not need to be trained any differently than the rest of your body, meaning less is more. When you can do 10-20 of something, like a sit-up for example, it is time to work on how fast and controlled you are doing the concentric and eccentric movement, add some weight by picking up a plate or a sandbag, etc. You also want to stick with just a few exercises that target specific areas or purposes. For example for my core, all I train is "decline sit ups" with a sand back on my chest where I make certain to go all the way down and all the way up, hanging leg raises with a sand bag, back extensions with a sand bag. I don't do much more than 2 or 3 sets for 15 reps. That's it. The crazy thing about abs is that they actually need very little work. Studies show that about 2 months of heavy training and your abs reach a physical peak where they don't really grow much stronger or bigger with out excessive training.

Also fuck crunches. What a stupid exercise that is.

View PostJLV, on 20 November 2011 - 01:59 AM, said:

Wednesday:
Legs day. I don't have any idea what to do. I usually do back exercises and some leg machines because I don't know any good exercises.


You are at risk of turning into one of those curl bros you see on the beach with massive arms and chests but no legs to speak off. When in doubt sweep their leg for massive damage.

There are two leg exercises that you need to acquaint yourself with, the Squat and the Deadlift. These are two of the best and most effective exercises at your disposal for building muscle and strength.

The problem however is that they are also two of the more difficult exercises to master. BUT MASTER THEM YOU SHALL! If you are training in a proper gym ask an instructor to show you how to do them. If there isn't any instructors around look around for an old gym rat who knows his shit and ask him if he'll teach you. If, like me when I was starting out, there is no instructor and there are nobody around squatting or deadlifting, look to the internet and let youtube be your guide and for the love of god start out light and work on your form before you begin lifting heavy.

Also what ever you hear, always squat deep. Ass to the grass is a mantra you need to learn.

View PostJLV, on 20 November 2011 - 01:59 AM, said:

Sat/sun: No lifting. Is this bad? I could find time on most Saturdays, but not Sundays.

Any helpful comments?


You don't need to train every day to get bigger or stronger. Less can be more. It depends on your programme and what your body can handle. What you need to remember is that your body doesn't become stronger or bigger while you are in the gym, it does that when you are resting. The more time you spend between training sessions the more time the body has to recuperate. The trick is finding out how much restitution you need. For example right now I am training a 3 way split programme where I train from Monday to Friday. Saturday and Sunday are resting days. When I begin my next programme I will be doing full body work out and as such I will only be training Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I will be doing some cardio and stretching exercises Tuesday and Thursday instead but effectively my body is only being pushed hard 3 days a week.

Okay, lets try and figure out what kind of programme you might be interested in. I'm going to out line 3 different options that you might be able to use as a beginner. I am sure that other will have some different input. Always remember that nobody reacts the same way to a programme or specific exercises. What you need to learn, and this takes months and years not days or weeks, is what works for you and how you like to train. But for the time being you should stick to some basic principles and some tried and tested methods that pretty much anyone will benefit from when they are just starting out.

Okay first of all you need to understand that the body consists of some major muscle groups and there are some very specific exercises that are very good at training these muscle groups.

To make things simple you can put it like this. There are 3 areas. Your quadriceps, your back and your chest/delts. These three areas are by far the strongest masses of muscles meaning they can move the most weight and recruit the most power and exert the biggest strain on your body overall. There fore you want to focus on these groups primarily. Everything else is aesthetics and assistance work.

Your back is used to lift and pull things, to do this it usually gets assistance from a secondary muscle group your biceps. There fore when you train, you train your back first and then you finish off with biceps exercises. If you even want to bother with that. Unless you are a bodybuilder there is never any reason to train more than one or two exercises for your biceps, it already gets plenty of action when it is recruited to help your back lift heavy weight.

Your chest and shoulders are used to push things away from you and lift things over your head. To do this it usually gets assistance from the triceps. Like the biceps there is not really much need go overboard with training triceps but just a side note, it is your triceps, the back of your arm, that makes your arm look big, not the biceps.

Your quads, the front part of the thigh is, the single biggest muscle groups of you body. Those are the one you use to rise up when your are squatting on your haunches and when you extend your leg while sitting down. But your lower body consists off all kinds of other major muscle groups namely your hamstrings on the back of your leg. Your glutes (that's your ass, and yes you want to train it) and your calves. To have over all synergy in your bodies strength and fitness it is important that you put as much attention to leg training as you do the rest of your body since your leg lets you recruit the biggest amount of strength you can muster.

Okay

Now, I am going to assume that you A) Have access to Barbells and dumbbells and B ) You're not afraid of trying some exercises that are going to test your co-ordination.

The reason why you want to use free weight over machines is that they also train your balance and coordination. Machines are for old people, the infirm and pussies.


-------------------------------------


Example 1: A full body workout.

You train your whole body in one go. You do this maybe two or three times a week. When you're training a full body programme you need to be effective in your selection of exercises. You need to chose compound exercises (exercises that target multiple muscle groups) that hit the entire body effectively.

It might look something like this:

Squat: For your quads, glutes, hamstrings, lower back, calves, core
Overhead press: For your shoulders, chest, triceps, triceps, core.
Deadlift: Similar to the Squat but now you're focusing on your back instead of the thigh and you're recruiting your whole back, traps and forearms,
Pull-ups: For your whole back, biceps, forearms, traps, shoulders.

Or maybe

Squat
Benchpress
stiffleg Deadlift
Barbell row.

In just 4 exercises you have hit the three major muscle groups several times.

If you think this is too simple you can always tag on some additional exercises like some dips or barbell curls for the arms. Or some leg curls or leg extensions of the legs. But over all you're hitting the entire body with very few exercises.


----------------------------


Example 2: A 2-split programme

Here you are trying to hit the entire body in two days giving room for more specialized exercises. Usually you'll train something like Monday-Tuesday, break, Thursdy-Friday, weekend break, begin again.

Usually people might split the body into front and back. So for example you might train something like this.

Day A:

thighs:
Squat,
Leg extensions

Shoulders and traps:
Overhead press
High pull

Chest and Triceps:
Benchpress
Dips
Skullcrushers (or if you don't like those, try doing bent over triceps extensions using a rope while resting your elbows on a bench for a kind of isolation)


Day B

Back and hamstrings:
Deadlift
Legcurls

SUDDENLY FOR THE HECK OF IT: Walking lounges until you puke although I prefer to do those with my quad work.

Back and biceps
Pull ups/Pull downs
Barbell rows.
barbell curls (Never with an EZ-bar, fuck your wrists)

Abs and lower back and maybe some calves.

Again if you want you can throw in some extra work here and there. Like some lateral raises for the shoulders. Some flies for the chest. The walking lounges for your ass, etc.


------------------------------


Example 3: A 3 split programme.

Now we're getting into bodybuilding territory. I've personally always preferred the 3 day split but I was also something of a curl monkey when I was younger. I've never seen a reason to split the body up into more than 3 groups though

When you're splitting the body into 3 days you have lots of room to get into details and do concentration work.

You'll usually train three days straight and take a break or maybe train from Monday to Friday or Saturday and then take a break and start again Monday.

It might look something like this:

Day A:
Chest and Triceps:
Benchpress
Dips
Flies
Pullover

Triceps extensions
One arm reverse grip triceps extension.

Day B:
Back and Biceps

Deadlift (regular or stifflegged)
x <-------- Maybe throw in some good mornings here if you're feeling frisky.
Legcurl

(Notice that I keep throwing hamstring training in with my deadlifts, this is a personal preference I've settled for because especially stifflegged deadlift uses the hamstring heavily and you don't have to put it in on your main leg day)

Pull-ups preferably with some extra weight added
Rows, dumbbell or barbell.
One arm cable pull downs.

Barbell curls
Isolated one arm dumbbell curls
Reverse grip barbell curls.

Day C:
Leg and shoulders

Squat
One legged leg press or Walking lounges
Leg extensions
Calves

Military press
One arm press
High Pulls
Maybe some lateral raises or shrugs.

Throw in some ab and lower back exercises on alternating days.


--------------------------------------------


These are basic exercises that will work for pretty much anyone. Next you need to decide how many sets you want to go for and how many reps.

More reps (15-10) means you'll be going for endurance and hypertrophy. Lower reps (8-4) means you're going for strength and hypertrophy. That doesn't mean that you're not getting all of the above what ever you chose, you're just going to get more of one than another depending upon you rep scheme.

Notice one thing, even with as many exercises as I put in the 3 day split programme. I did not put in many exercises that mimicked each other. When I did it was usually a one arm or one leg variant. There is no reason to train the same exercise twice. For example there is no point in doing a barbell benchpress and then next doing a dumbbell or machine benchpress. Not unless you decide to do one incline and the other decline for example. Or a bent over barbell row and then a rowing machine. It's about attacking muscle as effectively as possible from various angles with fewer exercises. That way you can put more effort in where it really matters.

EDIT: Another edit here. Keep in mind I am only preaching what I know. For example I have only given you programmes using "static movements" because those are the ones I use. I know for a fact that people get a lot of good results out of more explosive stuff namely Olympic lifts and their assistance work, things like Power cleans, Clean and press, snatch and pull, etc. Unfortunately I have no experience with them and can't recommend you anything other than seeking out somebody who knows something about them. I know I plan to eventually.

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 20 November 2011 - 07:55 PM

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#31 User is offline   JLV 

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 08:29 PM

Male, 5' 11", 160lbs, 17 years old.

Plenty of injuries, but nothing that should affect training as far as I know.

I've worked out since I was 14, but I wouldn't call it experience. Just me figuring out what to do. I didn't actually start gaining muscle until 16.

I'm weight training because I can't stand cardio (I'm doing insanity, but I can't make myself run on the treadmill or stationary bike).

As to weight... I went from 180lbs when I was 14 to 140 when I was 16, and from 16 to 17 I've gone up to 160. I'm aiming for 180. Make sense? So yeah, I'm bulking up

Bigger and stronger, primarily. I don't do anything that requires speed.

I've been lifting for a while, but I'm still essentially a rookie. The gym I go to is in a rec-center. There are no trainers. I just made up my routine based on what made me stronger.

Since July, my chest press has gone from 150-220. Triceps have gone up 50lbs, curls have gone up 10lbs.

Now I'm going to respond to individual part:

All the comments about upper body stuff (getting rid of machines, especially) = Noted

About ab exercises = Decline situps have always been my favorite. I use a 10lb ball, I suppose I could use a 25lb weight and work my way up more.

No one is usually around, so I will look up form videos on deadlifts and squats. Or workout at 5 one day, when the place is packed.

To all the stuff about primary and secondary muscles groups: Woah. I didn't know ANY of that stuff. That explains why you said my workout was all fucked up. Jesus.

Despite my obvious lack of lifting skills, I have a pretty strong (upper) body for my size/age. I think I would prefer the 3 split programme.

Looking at the list, I'm gonna have to google some of these. But it seems good. I'll print this out and start Monday.

I would go for the 8-4 reps.

I have a few closing questions.

What kind of protein do you (all) use, if any?
I eat a protein bar and an apple for breakfast before working out, so I have energy. 20g of protein. Do I need any more?

Would the 3 split be okay if I went mon-tues-wed, then started from the beginning for thurs-fri-sat with a rest on sunday? Or is that too much?

Thanks for the help
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#32 User is offline   tiam 

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 08:56 PM

Alot on here since I last posted.

As with SS, Stronglifts or any LP (Linear Progression) programme the intervals go up 2.5 kilos a training session. Thats why you start lighter, get your form sorted (I notice you commented your form was solid 'enough' but really its the cornerstone and should be worked upon) and you make large jumps. My diet was good for the programme and at one pont I went from an 80kg squat to a 120kg squat (for 3 sets of 5 and below parelel). My only problem was consistency (read:training with a hangover) and I recommend sticking to just the standard stronglifts workout for atleast 12 weeks and see if your basic lifts go up.

Edit- While im not training atm (properly in a gym) ive been looking for a bodybuilding routine that incorporates big compound exercises. Most of them are just lat pull downs etc and not worth bothering with but while the Greyskull LP programme (worth a look again Apt) is ok Im looking for a different one. This is an eye to the future after I rejoin a gym and get enough strength back to armwrestle a girl.

EDIT EDIT- Just look at JLV workout. This is the kind of stuff I did when Iwas 16-17. Alot of the same stuff over and over with alot of chest and arms. To get bigger and stronger see the post on the previous page about getting a beginner level of strength (like a bodyweight bench 1.5 squat and deadlift) which will put size and muscle on you.

This post has been edited by tiam: 20 November 2011 - 09:09 PM

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#33 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 04:13 AM

Yeah, Rippetoe is amazing.

Apt did a great job with that long post.

I'd add in that before the workout, you should be doing some light form of exercise to get your body warm and your mind into the groove. I did 5 minutes on a stationary bike. Something like that.

After you're done, stretch. Do not stretch beforehand as it will actually make you less strong. I usually played with a yoga ball for a little while afterwards, just to keep my balance good and to work my body in different ways than "up/down/front/back".

Eat as soon after working out as you can. Protein is usually good. I like to eat about an hour and a half beforehand - something like a PBJ sandwich that can digest and give me energy at the right time.

With my program, laid out here, Tuesday and Fridays were tough days. I really needed the lighter Wednesday and the days off on Saturday and Sunday to rest from weightlifting. Granted, I was lifting and doing Brazilian jiu-jitsu on the same days mostly - your mileage may vary as you are younger and only weightlifting.

Now I only grapple, as the house is under renovation and my squat cage is disassembled in the basement.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 21 November 2011 - 04:15 AM

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#34 User is offline   JLV 

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 08:16 PM

After day A of the workout, my limbs are dead. I'll be super sore tomorrow. And that's with lighter weight on some of the exercises I wasn't familiar with.

Thanks so far, apt :)
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#35 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 05:55 PM

So, JLV, how is it coming along? What programme are you training and are you seeing some progress? Have you figured out things like Squats or Deadlifts yet?

----------

I'm about to begin a new programme, the one that I mentioned earlier, which will probably last for about 7 months.

It's inspired by the Strong Lifts/Starting Strength ideas but modified for a different weight and rep progression and with double the amount of exercises. We'll be training Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

Instead of working with a percentage of a max lift and slowly adding weight until you peak and deload, we will be doing one month of 5 rep sets, one month of 15 reps, then 10, then 5 again and so on. The amount of weight we use is purely based on how well we able to do the last set in each exercise. The emphasise here will be form first, then strength. At the beginning and end of each month we write down what we're able to lift.

Hopefully when we begin the second cycle 4 months in, we will experience some significant gains.

The question is how hard this programme will be on us. We're not sure if we should be attempting to do 4-5 sets at the max weight plus warm up sets each exercise or we should do 1-2 warm up sets and then only do 2-3 heavy sets. We're also unsure how this is going to feel when doing 15 reps. That's a whole lot of volume.

On top of that my insane buddy wants us to run on our off days. My legs hurt just thinking about it.

This is the programme

A - Press focused.

Squat 5x5

Military Press 5x5

Deadlift 5x5

Bench 5x5

Pull Ups/Pull Downs 5x5

Dips 4x5

Lying triceps Extensions 4x5

leg curls 4x5

calf ?

abs ?


B - Pull focused

Squat 5x5

Pull-ups/Pull Downs 5x5

Stiff-leg Deadlift 5x5

rows 5x5

Military Press 4x5

High Pull/Uprigh Row 4x5

Barbell Curls 4x5

Leg extensions 4x5

Calf ?

Back extensions ?


... yes, you didn't read this wrong, that is at least 40 sets per day + change. Oh lawdy.

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 09 December 2011 - 06:04 PM

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#36 User is offline   JLV 

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 06:18 PM

I'm using that 3 split programme you outlined with a few minor additions.

Just finished week 3, and I'm definitely feeling more sore than when I did my haphazard workout.

Week 1 and 2 I tried to workout 3 days in a row, rest a day, then workout 3 days, rest, etc. It was okay, but I found that day B was a struggle because of soreness from day A.

So week 3 I tried going Mon/Wed/Fri. Day B went much better, and I day C even improved.

The squats and deadlifts weren't actually that bad, I got them after a few tries. I'm still not up to par with my weight used though. My brother told me that you should squat about twice what you bench, and I'm not even close. It could just be fear of falling over or something, I don't know.

My legs are getting stronger FAST. Everything else is doing pretty well also. Thanks for the help.

My 6 pack is back without dieting. I love being young.
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#37 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 06:52 PM

View PostJLV, on 09 December 2011 - 06:18 PM, said:

The squats and deadlifts weren't actually that bad, I got them after a few tries. I'm still not up to par with my weight used though. My brother told me that you should squat about twice what you bench, and I'm not even close. It could just be fear of falling over or something, I don't know.


Generally speaking your deadlift should be stronger than your squat and your squat should be stronger than your bench but should doesn't necessarily mean that it holds true for everyone. It's just a general observation. Take my training buddy. He can bench 30 kilos more than he squats. Some people are just built differently.

Don't think too much about what you "should" be able to do, just think about what you lifted the last time and work on lifting a bit more next week.

A smart guy once said that when you're training in a gym you're not competing with the other people around you, you're competing with yourself. Doesn't really matter what other people think as long as you're making progress and you feel good.
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#38 User is offline   Coco with marshmallows 

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 09:31 PM

View PostAptorius, on 09 December 2011 - 06:52 PM, said:

A smart guy once said that when you're training in a gym you're not competing with the other people around you, you're competing with yourself. Doesn't really matter what other people think as long as you're making progress and you feel good.



This.

Abso-fuckin'-lutely This.

I keep saying similar to the two guys I train with, who get annoyed that even though i'm littler than them (they're both comfortably over 6 foot, i'm 5-10 or so) I lift the same as them.
meh. Link was dead :(
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#39 User is offline   tiam 

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 11:21 PM

View PostCocoreturns, on 09 December 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

View PostAptorius, on 09 December 2011 - 06:52 PM, said:

A smart guy once said that when you're training in a gym you're not competing with the other people around you, you're competing with yourself. Doesn't really matter what other people think as long as you're making progress and you feel good.



This.

Abso-fuckin'-lutely This.

I keep saying similar to the two guys I train with, who get annoyed that even though i'm littler than them (they're both comfortably over 6 foot, i'm 5-10 or so) I lift the same as them.


Is height that much of an issue. Im like 6'1 and theres guys who are shorter that can pull more than me by a fair amount.

Also that quote of competing against yourself is so apt (to stretch a pun)
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#40 User is offline   Black Winged Lord 

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 01:42 AM

Cheers guys, just reading through all this has given me the motivation to get off my arse and back on the wagon again after a couple of years.

Gonna aim to lose about 10-15kg to begin with, lots of cardio, then look at a weights program to put some back in the right places.
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