[Alkend]

Well this is frustrating.... I had all day to post and its still night. Should be back to check the thread in a few hours.

[Path-Shaper]

I'm here guys. Will do the resolve ASAP.

ST

[Path-Shaper]

A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms. Enthusiasms, enthusiasms... What are mine? What draws my admiration? What is that which gives me joy? Baseball! A man stands alone at the plate. This is the time for what? For individual achievement. There he stands alone. But in the field, what? Part of a team. Teamwork... Looks, throws, catches, hustles. Part of one big team. Bats himself the live-long day, Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, and so on. If his team don't field... what is he? You follow me? No one. Sunny day, the stands are full of fans. What does he have to say? I'm goin' out there for myself. But... I get nowhere unless the team wins. There is violence in Chicago. But not by me, and not by anybody who works for me, and I'll tell you why because it's bad for business.
Tennes (Grief) was Town.

I believe in America. America has made my fortune. And I raised my daughter in the American fashion. I gave her freedom but I taught her never to dishonor her family. She found a "boy friend," not an Italian. She went to the movies with him. She stayed out late. I didn't protest. Two months ago he took her for a drive, with another boy friend. They made her drink whiskey and then they tried to take advantage of her. She resisted. She kept her honor. So they beat her. Like an animal. When I went to the hospital her nose was broken. Her jaw was shattered, held together by wire. She couldn't even weep because of the pain. But I wept. Why did I weep? She was the light of my life. A beautiful girl. Now she will never be beautiful again.
Thyrllan (Lycaenidrae) was town.

It is Day 3. 23 hours and 59 minutes remaining
15 Players still alive: Alkend, Anomandaris, Atrahal, Karosis, Kessobahn, Korabas, Korbas, Korlat, Serc, Shadow, Silanah, Telas, Tellan, Tiamatha, Tulas Shorn

8 votes to lynch, 8 votes to go to night.


Players not voted: Alkend, Anomandaris, Atrahal, Karosis, Kessobahn, Korabas, Korbas, Korlat, Serc, Shadow, Silanah, Telas, Tellan, Tiamatha, Tulas Shorn

[Tellan]

Aw shit. Well, I guess the roled players are starting to have trouble finding each other and hitting us instead. Also, since these are town deaths these were the actions of the Capo/Cop, which is nice to know in such a definite manner, we know they are both around and that those dead so far are one of four roles: healer, guard, FM, or mole.

[Tellan]

I also think it is interesting that the two people NK'ed were top level suspects from yesterday. Makes me wonder if we can reason out who was their killer by looking at how people interacted with Tennes (kind of hard, he was universally hated) or Thyr (a little easier, there was a small population of people exceptionally suspicious of him). I am just getting these thoughts out there right now. I'm going to look back and see if there are any interactions I can point out.

[Korabas]

There's also the small chance they could have been the Don and/or Head Prosecutor, who CF as town. But the high probability is that they were both real town.

Edit: No, wait, they couldn't have, those roles have 2 BPs. Ignore.

This post has been edited by Korabas: 13 September 2011 - 11:24 PM

[Karosis]

They died not knowing how to win.

Their names were Robert Paulson.

[Kessobahn]

I've got a few minutes before I'm out the door. My top three canidates for roled players are Tellan, Alkend and Serc.

Tellan really pinged my radar with how easily he jumped on the Kalse train regarding a failed understanding of the FM mechanic when it was clearly stated how it works in the OP. This was clearly right after Tellan was bragging up that he was right over Tennes regarding the town winning conditions aspect that was much easier to get wrong. It doesn't seem likely that someone could be so spot on a concept that seems more difficult to grasp but total whiff on something that was so clearly stated. It looks like to me he was following Alkend after Alkend placed a vote on Kalse. That leads me to believe that Alkend may be a finder and Tellan could be the leader of one side or the other.

Serc joins my list because of this

Serc, on 12 September 2011 - 10:40 PM, said:

Telas, on 12 September 2011 - 10:36 PM, said:

Tellan, on 12 September 2011 - 10:27 PM, said:

And Telas, since you're here, care to elaborate on those "pings." You critiqued several theories as weak and unsubstantiated, but did not give us anything to go off of. Tearing apart cases is a lot easier than trying to reason through building one.

The two main players I feel uneasy about are Thyrllian and Tennes, I think that while int his regard Tennes had a point, while we all want to make sure we have out winning conditions and have something to work towards as soon as we can there is also a more longterm game to think about as well and this kind of attitude does not help with that but then again I come into conflict with the whole a vote is better than no vote/no lynch argument.

With tennes I just feel that his reaction to thyrillian's vote was rather extreme and unhelpful, maybe slightly panicky, maybe a bold bluff on his part in the hopes of deflecting a possible train away from himself.

I actually agree with you about both of them.

However, it would be more in our interest to lynch someone who is contributing little. Even a roled player (especially one that doesn't know their team) can help us with cases.

The last line makes it seem that he is very against hitting a roled player. Why would he be against that if he isn't a roled player himself and is afraid of hitting his own team?

I'm gone for a while. Don't push a lynch through with half the day to go folks. I would like to get on a successful lynch for once.

[Tellan]

Kessobahn, on 13 September 2011 - 11:30 PM, said:

I've got a few minutes before I'm out the door. My top three canidates for roled players are Tellan, Alkend and Serc.

Tellan really pinged my radar with how easily he jumped on the Kalse train regarding a failed understanding of the FM mechanic when it was clearly stated how it works in the OP. This was clearly right after Tellan was bragging up that he was right over Tennes regarding the town winning conditions aspect that was much easier to get wrong. It doesn't seem likely that someone could be so spot on a concept that seems more difficult to grasp but total whiff on something that was so clearly stated. It looks like to me he was following Alkend after Alkend placed a vote on Kalse. That leads me to believe that Alkend may be a finder and Tellan could be the leader of one side or the other.

Serc joins my list because of this

Serc, on 12 September 2011 - 10:40 PM, said:

Telas, on 12 September 2011 - 10:36 PM, said:

Tellan, on 12 September 2011 - 10:27 PM, said:

And Telas, since you're here, care to elaborate on those "pings." You critiqued several theories as weak and unsubstantiated, but did not give us anything to go off of. Tearing apart cases is a lot easier than trying to reason through building one.

The two main players I feel uneasy about are Thyrllian and Tennes, I think that while int his regard Tennes had a point, while we all want to make sure we have out winning conditions and have something to work towards as soon as we can there is also a more longterm game to think about as well and this kind of attitude does not help with that but then again I come into conflict with the whole a vote is better than no vote/no lynch argument.

With tennes I just feel that his reaction to thyrillian's vote was rather extreme and unhelpful, maybe slightly panicky, maybe a bold bluff on his part in the hopes of deflecting a possible train away from himself.

I actually agree with you about both of them.

However, it would be more in our interest to lynch someone who is contributing little. Even a roled player (especially one that doesn't know their team) can help us with cases.

The last line makes it seem that he is very against hitting a roled player. Why would he be against that if he isn't a roled player himself and is afraid of hitting his own team?

I'm gone for a while. Don't push a lynch through with half the day to go folks. I would like to get on a successful lynch for once.

Wait, what? When did I get the FM mechanics wrong again? This is news to me.

[Tellan]

As far as I remember, I had two reasons for suspecting Kalse: the first reason was I thought that the posts between Anthras and Kalse were similar and that we could have witnessed a FM jump. It was someone else (Alkend) who thought JA was still alive and jumped into Kalse, despite the CF clearly stating that JA was dead.

The second reason was Kalse was acting very, as I put it, cantankerous. He was getting very worked up over accusations, but gave more bluster and OMGUS than actually providing defense of himself or even trying to provide his own theories.

And I was right about him. He was a roled player (which was why I voted for him. I was looking for roled players).

[Tellan]

You know, you beat me to the punch Kesso. I was actually looking up information on you just as you were posting your accusation of me. The reason I was digging concerned both your and Silanah's vote on one of our latest NK victims, Thyr. Now, while several people expressed suspicion of Thyr, only two people actually voted for him (er, her) in very close succession. First of all, I am now looking into potential connections between people's post and looking for our two roled night killers. Since I still think that people by habit tend to talk a lot about their own roles in threads, I give to you some quotes about killers from our very own Silanah and Kesso.

Silanah, on 09 September 2011 - 03:18 PM, said:

you think it too obvious for a killer to make that statement?

Kessobahn, on 09 September 2011 - 03:23 PM, said:

I think it is highly unlikely that a killer would do that. It would be incredibly stupid for one. Why draw attention to yourself. Any smart killer would not want to do that.

Silanah, on 09 September 2011 - 03:28 PM, said:

a bold and brazen killer would do it to easily dismiss the case against him

a new guy would do it by mistake

another guy would do it just to be too obvious therefore getting you to dismiss him as a potential killer (which you have just done by saying it incredibly stupid)

so yeah there are reasons one would do this.

To put it in context, these comments were made in the debate over whether the "gun" comment was signaling or if that was just a red herring. The argument centered around whether or not a killer would be so blatant as to make such an obvious comment. Kesso thinks the killer would want to avoid attention and Silanah thinks it could go either way and suspicion needed to be maintained and dismissal avoided.

Yesterday, these were the reasonings given behind their vote for Thyr:

Kessobahn, on 12 September 2011 - 08:35 PM, said:

So I've been doing a re-read but I'm not getting much of a read off of anyone. So many people are trying to come off as town that I can't separtate the ones that are lying from the ones that are legit. So I've been thinking how else can I possibly track down someone to be a lynch target? Let's look at the lynch train. With the mechanic in place for town to have to vote out either FBI or Outfit to have a shot at winning. Barring successful lynches, voting history would be looked at to help determine what is town's winning conditon. It would be very stuipid to not vote for anyone at all before the end of the day period. Town would know this much more so that either of the other groups of players So knowing this the people not voting are much more likely to be either FBI or Outfit.

Who are these people that were foolish enough not to vote at all? Well they are Atrahal, Sorrit, Thyrllan or myself. I was in this unfortunate position becasuse I was on early in Day 1 and thoguht I would be back on with hours to go before Day timed out. Alas this was not the case. Sorrit is dead by lynch. With him not voting and yet he CF'd as FBI further puts weight on the fact that those not voting at all should be highly suspect. That leaves us with Atrahal and Thyrllan.

Now going back and looking at both of their posts they have since voted for someone on day two. Atrahal has done nothing but post fluff. Thyrllan has barely posted anything until he started a train on Tennes today. Of the two I beileve that Thyrllan has done more lurking thus he is likely to be a killer so I am leaning towards

Vote Thyrllan

Here is the voting infomation from the day 1 lynch.

1 Vote for Kessobahn ( Ampelas )
11 Votes for Sorrit ( Shadow, Serc, Korabas, Tennes, Korlat, Tulas Shorn, Telas, Tellan, Tiamatha, Silanah, Anthras )
2 Votes for Korbas ( Karosis, Anomandaris )
1 Vote for Anomandaris ( Korbas )
1 Vote for Tennes ( Kalse )
1 Vote for Silanah ( Alkend )

Players not voted: Atrahal, Kessobahn, Sorrit, Thyrllan

Kesso here acknowledges that he is on the short list of people who failed to vote on Day one, and explains why he was too busy to make it back in time for the lynch. Now the thing that gets my goat, so to speak, about this post is the post is almost a carbon copy of what myself and Korbas had posted not over one page before in discussing the voting and night conversation patterns of other players. I did call out Kesso, but he failed to respond to my accusation (see red text highlighted below) of taking other's reasoning and making it look like his own.

Silanah, on 12 September 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:

telas, tellan and tennes. korabas and korbas i think my head will explode in a minute, i keep mixing them up. i thought i had something on tennes? earlier on regarding the removal of the vote and catching him in a lie but i lost it, although as people would know i hate people self voting, it makes me want to vote them off just for doing that. i'm reading through the thread and would like to hear more from shadow, he started the lynch train on sorrit/fbi yesterday and maybe he can do the same thing today, unless he is smarting because he started a train on his own team. there are a few people out there that are deciding to have a low post count/stay of the radar but as we saw from last night it doesn't work. i'd like the lower posters to engage in more activity so that we can get a better feel for the players and their alignments. otherwise it turns out to be the ones that are making the posts to be the ones singled out and votes placed against them. i have a fair indication who i want to vote for today (thyrllan) but i want to hear a little more of what he has to say on the game and players so far.

Silanah, on 12 September 2011 - 09:48 PM, said:

Tennes, on 12 September 2011 - 09:39 PM, said:

Tellan, on 12 September 2011 - 09:25 PM, said:

Tennes, on 12 September 2011 - 09:18 PM, said:

Tellan, on 12 September 2011 - 09:10 PM, said:

I leave for what, 5-6 hours, after presenting quite a few thoughts on game mechanics and potential scenarios and all I come back to is a self vote and a flattering, but still, copy cat rendition of my cases concerning the no vote people of Day 1? Really? Ok, I will have some more thoughts in a sec, but am I making my comments to long, too dense, too many big words?

If you didn't pad them out with stating the obvious about mechanics that'd be nice too.

Fun fact, there are six people who have 2 or fewer posts more than sorrit.

Fun fact, there are some people who spend more time arguing for the same point with a lot of posts without actually saying that much about their own suspicions and thoughts.

You say I'm arguing the same point, and not naming my suspicions, but there's a reason for that. The point I argue is that we're letting people away with contributing nothing, and if no one has posted anything of substance it's pretty hard to find any individual more suspicious than another. Town is shooting itself in the foot by laying low and thus letting the roled players do exactly the same, giving them a place to hide among a lot of people playing similarly.

You'll note I do actually put my thoughts on thread as well, for example speculating about Anthras' relations with others, but even that is pretty hard because no one was posting very much so there is much interaction to look at.

Am I making myself unreadable by putting up so little?

as you can see from my previous post i agree with what you are saying here, i'm not saying we should solely have a look at the low posters but by being a low poster they are more harmful to town, with this in mind i'm going to

vote thyrllan

i'm going to bed now and will be on most of tomorrow, he is the lowest poster out of everyone left alive, although it was hard not to pick korlat as i didn't even realise she was playing

Silanah is harder for me to read. He goes for the low poster route, and while he has several suspects in his pool, he chooses Thyrllan, which might have been innocuous if not for the fact he was the second person building a case on Thyr, namely starting a nudge toward a lynch train. Now this is a weak case in and of itself, but why then does he shift his vote to Atrahal when there were already 9/10 votes for Kalse. I mean he does vote for Kalse (as the hammer) a little while later, but this also seems like a "I guess I won't change any minds so better look like a team player."

Now I realize this is putting words in Silanah's mouth, and I would love to hear his thoughts on why he kept switching votes all over the place, especially if he was a townie needing to lynch at least one more roled player to get win conditions. But, I'd say that Silanah isn't entirely town in his behavior.

[Tellan]

So why haven't I voted yet? I want to hear more from others first. We still have a whole day ahead of us, and I would like some more information on these two as well as other people's thoughts (preferably with quotes for evidence). Thank you. And now, finally, dinner .

[Atrahal]

Just time for a quick check in - I see I was wrong about Tennes. Sucks to be wrong, but at least we don't waste a lynch on his suspicious acting ass. I shall be on later to speculate.

[Serc]

Tellan, on 13 September 2011 - 11:21 PM, said:

I also think it is interesting that the two people NK'ed were top level suspects from yesterday. Makes me wonder if we can reason out who was their killer by looking at how people interacted with Tennes (kind of hard, he was universally hated) or Thyr (a little easier, there was a small population of people exceptionally suspicious of him). I am just getting these thoughts out there right now. I'm going to look back and see if there are any interactions I can point out.

The most obvious thing a killer can do is lynch someone who has argued with people. That way, the killer will seem to be one of those people.

[Serc]

Kessobahn, on 13 September 2011 - 11:30 PM, said:

I've got a few minutes before I'm out the door. My top three canidates for roled players are Tellan, Alkend and Serc.

Tellan really pinged my radar with how easily he jumped on the Kalse train regarding a failed understanding of the FM mechanic when it was clearly stated how it works in the OP. This was clearly right after Tellan was bragging up that he was right over Tennes regarding the town winning conditions aspect that was much easier to get wrong. It doesn't seem likely that someone could be so spot on a concept that seems more difficult to grasp but total whiff on something that was so clearly stated. It looks like to me he was following Alkend after Alkend placed a vote on Kalse. That leads me to believe that Alkend may be a finder and Tellan could be the leader of one side or the other.

Serc joins my list because of this

Serc, on 12 September 2011 - 10:40 PM, said:

Telas, on 12 September 2011 - 10:36 PM, said:

Tellan, on 12 September 2011 - 10:27 PM, said:

And Telas, since you're here, care to elaborate on those "pings." You critiqued several theories as weak and unsubstantiated, but did not give us anything to go off of. Tearing apart cases is a lot easier than trying to reason through building one.

The two main players I feel uneasy about are Thyrllian and Tennes, I think that while int his regard Tennes had a point, while we all want to make sure we have out winning conditions and have something to work towards as soon as we can there is also a more longterm game to think about as well and this kind of attitude does not help with that but then again I come into conflict with the whole a vote is better than no vote/no lynch argument.

With tennes I just feel that his reaction to thyrillian's vote was rather extreme and unhelpful, maybe slightly panicky, maybe a bold bluff on his part in the hopes of deflecting a possible train away from himself.

I actually agree with you about both of them.

However, it would be more in our interest to lynch someone who is contributing little. Even a roled player (especially one that doesn't know their team) can help us with cases.

The last line makes it seem that he is very against hitting a roled player. Why would he be against that if he isn't a roled player himself and is afraid of hitting his own team?

I'm gone for a while. Don't push a lynch through with half the day to go folks. I would like to get on a successful lynch for once.

I wasn't saying that I was against hitting a roled player, I was saying I'd rather hit a roled player who was a low poster, of which Kalse seemed to be (and was).

[Serc]

Tellan, on 14 September 2011 - 12:08 AM, said:

You know, you beat me to the punch Kesso. I was actually looking up information on you just as you were posting your accusation of me. The reason I was digging concerned both your and Silanah's vote on one of our latest NK victims, Thyr. Now, while several people expressed suspicion of Thyr, only two people actually voted for him (er, her) in very close succession. First of all, I am now looking into potential connections between people's post and looking for our two roled night killers. Since I still think that people by habit tend to talk a lot about their own roles in threads, I give to you some quotes about killers from our very own Silanah and Kesso.

Silanah, on 09 September 2011 - 03:18 PM, said:

you think it too obvious for a killer to make that statement?

Kessobahn, on 09 September 2011 - 03:23 PM, said:

I think it is highly unlikely that a killer would do that. It would be incredibly stupid for one. Why draw attention to yourself. Any smart killer would not want to do that.

Silanah, on 09 September 2011 - 03:28 PM, said:

a bold and brazen killer would do it to easily dismiss the case against him

a new guy would do it by mistake

another guy would do it just to be too obvious therefore getting you to dismiss him as a potential killer (which you have just done by saying it incredibly stupid)

so yeah there are reasons one would do this.

To put it in context, these comments were made in the debate over whether the "gun" comment was signaling or if that was just a red herring. The argument centered around whether or not a killer would be so blatant as to make such an obvious comment. Kesso thinks the killer would want to avoid attention and Silanah thinks it could go either way and suspicion needed to be maintained and dismissal avoided.

Yesterday, these were the reasonings given behind their vote for Thyr:

Kessobahn, on 12 September 2011 - 08:35 PM, said:

So I've been doing a re-read but I'm not getting much of a read off of anyone. So many people are trying to come off as town that I can't separtate the ones that are lying from the ones that are legit. So I've been thinking how else can I possibly track down someone to be a lynch target? Let's look at the lynch train. With the mechanic in place for town to have to vote out either FBI or Outfit to have a shot at winning. Barring successful lynches, voting history would be looked at to help determine what is town's winning conditon. It would be very stuipid to not vote for anyone at all before the end of the day period. Town would know this much more so that either of the other groups of players So knowing this the people not voting are much more likely to be either FBI or Outfit.

Who are these people that were foolish enough not to vote at all? Well they are Atrahal, Sorrit, Thyrllan or myself. I was in this unfortunate position becasuse I was on early in Day 1 and thoguht I would be back on with hours to go before Day timed out. Alas this was not the case. Sorrit is dead by lynch. With him not voting and yet he CF'd as FBI further puts weight on the fact that those not voting at all should be highly suspect. That leaves us with Atrahal and Thyrllan.

Now going back and looking at both of their posts they have since voted for someone on day two. Atrahal has done nothing but post fluff. Thyrllan has barely posted anything until he started a train on Tennes today. Of the two I beileve that Thyrllan has done more lurking thus he is likely to be a killer so I am leaning towards

Vote Thyrllan

Here is the voting infomation from the day 1 lynch.

1 Vote for Kessobahn ( Ampelas )
11 Votes for Sorrit ( Shadow, Serc, Korabas, Tennes, Korlat, Tulas Shorn, Telas, Tellan, Tiamatha, Silanah, Anthras )
2 Votes for Korbas ( Karosis, Anomandaris )
1 Vote for Anomandaris ( Korbas )
1 Vote for Tennes ( Kalse )
1 Vote for Silanah ( Alkend )

Players not voted: Atrahal, Kessobahn, Sorrit, Thyrllan

Kesso here acknowledges that he is on the short list of people who failed to vote on Day one, and explains why he was too busy to make it back in time for the lynch. Now the thing that gets my goat, so to speak, about this post is the post is almost a carbon copy of what myself and Korbas had posted not over one page before in discussing the voting and night conversation patterns of other players. I did call out Kesso, but he failed to respond to my accusation (see red text highlighted below) of taking other's reasoning and making it look like his own.

Silanah, on 12 September 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:

telas, tellan and tennes. korabas and korbas i think my head will explode in a minute, i keep mixing them up. i thought i had something on tennes? earlier on regarding the removal of the vote and catching him in a lie but i lost it, although as people would know i hate people self voting, it makes me want to vote them off just for doing that. i'm reading through the thread and would like to hear more from shadow, he started the lynch train on sorrit/fbi yesterday and maybe he can do the same thing today, unless he is smarting because he started a train on his own team. there are a few people out there that are deciding to have a low post count/stay of the radar but as we saw from last night it doesn't work. i'd like the lower posters to engage in more activity so that we can get a better feel for the players and their alignments. otherwise it turns out to be the ones that are making the posts to be the ones singled out and votes placed against them. i have a fair indication who i want to vote for today (thyrllan) but i want to hear a little more of what he has to say on the game and players so far.

Silanah, on 12 September 2011 - 09:48 PM, said:

Tennes, on 12 September 2011 - 09:39 PM, said:

Tellan, on 12 September 2011 - 09:25 PM, said:

Tennes, on 12 September 2011 - 09:18 PM, said:

Tellan, on 12 September 2011 - 09:10 PM, said:

I leave for what, 5-6 hours, after presenting quite a few thoughts on game mechanics and potential scenarios and all I come back to is a self vote and a flattering, but still, copy cat rendition of my cases concerning the no vote people of Day 1? Really? Ok, I will have some more thoughts in a sec, but am I making my comments to long, too dense, too many big words?

If you didn't pad them out with stating the obvious about mechanics that'd be nice too.

Fun fact, there are six people who have 2 or fewer posts more than sorrit.

Fun fact, there are some people who spend more time arguing for the same point with a lot of posts without actually saying that much about their own suspicions and thoughts.

You say I'm arguing the same point, and not naming my suspicions, but there's a reason for that. The point I argue is that we're letting people away with contributing nothing, and if no one has posted anything of substance it's pretty hard to find any individual more suspicious than another. Town is shooting itself in the foot by laying low and thus letting the roled players do exactly the same, giving them a place to hide among a lot of people playing similarly.

You'll note I do actually put my thoughts on thread as well, for example speculating about Anthras' relations with others, but even that is pretty hard because no one was posting very much so there is much interaction to look at.

Am I making myself unreadable by putting up so little?

as you can see from my previous post i agree with what you are saying here, i'm not saying we should solely have a look at the low posters but by being a low poster they are more harmful to town, with this in mind i'm going to

vote thyrllan

i'm going to bed now and will be on most of tomorrow, he is the lowest poster out of everyone left alive, although it was hard not to pick korlat as i didn't even realise she was playing

Silanah is harder for me to read. He goes for the low poster route, and while he has several suspects in his pool, he chooses Thyrllan, which might have been innocuous if not for the fact he was the second person building a case on Thyr, namely starting a nudge toward a lynch train. Now this is a weak case in and of itself, but why then does he shift his vote to Atrahal when there were already 9/10 votes for Kalse. I mean he does vote for Kalse (as the hammer) a little while later, but this also seems like a "I guess I won't change any minds so better look like a team player."

Now I realize this is putting words in Silanah's mouth, and I would love to hear his thoughts on why he kept switching votes all over the place, especially if he was a townie needing to lynch at least one more roled player to get win conditions. But, I'd say that Silanah isn't entirely town in his behavior.

This entire post seems strange to me. The idea that a killer missed a train, and NKed the person they voted for instead seems ridiculous.

To me, it seems like a way to throw attention off himself. But it also seems that Tellan is including Silanah in this to almost get rid of suspicious against him (Silanah). Tellan makes a weak case against Silanah, and admits that it is weak. It seems throwaway, at this point in the game, to do something like that.

[Tellan]

Serc, on 14 September 2011 - 12:48 AM, said:

This entire post seems strange to me. The idea that a killer missed a train, and NKed the person they voted for instead seems ridiculous.

To me, it seems like a way to throw attention off himself. But it also seems that Tellan is including Silanah in this to almost get rid of suspicious against him (Silanah). Tellan makes a weak case against Silanah, and admits that it is weak. It seems throwaway, at this point in the game, to do something like that.

Ok Serc. First of all, you are taking things out of context. I said that a case against Silanah based on his vote for Thyr would be weak case, but I didn't stop there. I also talked about his vote switching and voting for Atrahal when there were already 9 votes on Kalse (and then switching to Kalse all of the sudden as the hammer). But you seemed to miss these points in your haste to point out a flaw in my thoughts.

I will also have you note that I was actively reading through Silanah and Kesso's posts when Kesso posted accusations against me. I would have posted these thoughts regardless (in your haste to say something smart, did you miss the quote just listed below? Where I was already beginning my discussion of those voting for Thyr?):

Tellan, on 13 September 2011 - 11:21 PM, said:

I also think it is interesting that the two people NK'ed were top level suspects from yesterday. Makes me wonder if we can reason out who was their killer by looking at how people interacted with Tennes (kind of hard, he was universally hated) or Thyr (a little easier, there was a small population of people exceptionally suspicious of him). I am just getting these thoughts out there right now. I'm going to look back and see if there are any interactions I can point out.

Also, as you yourself pointed out, the most obvious thing a killer can do is NK someone that others voted for to throw suspicion on those voters. Did you see the quotes from Kesso and Silanah talking about how just because something seems stupid and/or obvious, this does not exclude the possibility that it really is so? I just think it would be really clever to say such things, get the usual mafia "Pshaw!" and derisive scoffing, and then go ahead and make a move that tests people's willingness to ignore obvious stupidity.

But as I also said, I haven't voted. I figure we have a lot of evidence to work through, and I am just putting out some things that caught my eye. If you would rather I go into hiding or be belligerently argumentative without listing suspects, I can accommodate. However, as Tennes and Thyr showed us, those strategies don't seem to work that well...

[Tellan]

And it is bedtime, I appear to be the only one here now. See you all in 8-10 hours? Sound good? Great!!!

[Serc]

Tellan, on 14 September 2011 - 03:06 AM, said:

Also, as you yourself pointed out, the most obvious thing a killer can do is NK someone that others voted for to throw suspicion on those voters. Did you see the quotes from Kesso and Silanah talking about how just because something seems stupid and/or obvious, this does not exclude the possibility that it really is so? I just think it would be really clever to say such things, get the usual mafia "Pshaw!" and derisive scoffing, and then go ahead and make a move that tests people's willingness to ignore obvious stupidity.

I like this. I didn't catch that.

I think I'm getting sick. I intended to do some research tonight, but I just couldn't muster the energy. It's my bedtime as well.

I'll be more productive tomorrow, I promise!

[Telas]

I'm quite surprised that they both turned out to be town, I think Tellan you make a good point about a killer NK someone who seems to have drawn a lot of heat, it is a good way for less suspicion to fall on themselves and that discussion from back on day 1 is interesting to read in this new light. I need to re-read a few pages now since the two players I felt most suspicious of have gone, see if there is anything i've overlooked.

I will say that at just a glance however Silanah's voting struck me as very suspicious, that vote on atrahal seemed like a last minute attempt at a derailment and the quick switch an attempt to seem town by being in on the train.