[ansible]

Balls indeed.

[Grief]

Still, I'd say that we're doing fairly well. There are 2 scum at the moment(rebel MH and original), and we've narrowed both down to 3 people.

[Khellendros]

Sigh.

Vote Kurt

[ansible]

Grief, on 19 July 2011 - 11:00 PM, said:

Still, I'd say that we're doing fairly well. There are 2 scum at the moment(rebel MH and original), and we've narrowed both down to 3 people.

This is interesting... I still think there is some disagreement on whether there is one MH or two. I have to say I originally interpreted the OP as there being two, but I could see it only being one as well...

The thing is, if there ARE two, and we've narrowed it down to 3 people right now... When we hit MH, only one jump will occur. Which means, out of those 2 people left, one of them would still be MH, even though the rest of our information has reset...

Ergo, we would need to keep lynching from this pool of 3 players until we hit MH twice (which would be so, so fucking nice...). That would give town considerably better odds to hit one more lynch target before resorting to finds.

[Grief]

Path-Shaper, on 12 July 2011 - 05:22 PM, said:

Meng Huo will randomly incite one player to rebel at the beginning of the game (this player remains their current role and also is Meng Huo). That player will designate a successor. When the Meng Huo player is eliminated, the successor will become the new rebel and Meng Huo and will designate their own successor.

"Also is meng huo", to me, suggests we have two MH at the start of this game, both of whom are counted as MH(and so must be in the pool as finds would kill them. The finds must work on the rebel because every MH other than the original is a rebel, and so the finders would only be able to kill one person, so the max of 3 is pointless).

Shin debated earlier whether or not the kills would hit the successor, but we don't even know if they would be told that they are the successor until MH dies, and he admitted it was pure speculation.

[Khellendros]

ansible, on 19 July 2011 - 11:04 PM, said:

Grief, on 19 July 2011 - 11:00 PM, said:

Still, I'd say that we're doing fairly well. There are 2 scum at the moment(rebel MH and original), and we've narrowed both down to 3 people.

This is interesting... I still think there is some disagreement on whether there is one MH or two. I have to say I originally interpreted the OP as there being two, but I could see it only being one as well...

The thing is, if there ARE two, and we've narrowed it down to 3 people right now... When we hit MH, only one jump will occur. Which means, out of those 2 people left, one of them would still be MH, even though the rest of our information has reset...

Ergo, we would need to keep lynching from this pool of 3 players until we hit MH twice (which would be so, so fucking nice...). That would give town considerably better odds to hit one more lynch target before resorting to finds.

Which is exactly why I also think there is only one MH at any one time, otherwise this situation occurs in which the town effectively gets a free go at killing MH. I think it's just too easy for town to get MH if there's two options to go for - there being only one also makes our current situation - why neither finds nor kills has managed to root out MH yet - more understandable.

[Kurt Montandon]

Khellendros, on 19 July 2011 - 11:00 PM, said:

Sigh.

Vote Kurt

... uh, aren't you in the same boat as me as far as not being cleared? Because again, I'm sure as hell not voting for myself.

We've had an almost complete sweep-through by our Finders, but not quite. Did both Finders hold-off last Night, or can we get one more person cleared?

[ansible]

Yeah...shit. Those are exactly the two positions [edit - @Grief and Kell] I waver between concerning the number of scum. The only difference is Khell stands to gain personally from his position since he's in the pool of unconfirmed players who may be MH. Currently I'd be inclined to vote KM -> Shin -> Khell if it came to it.

This post has been edited by ansible: 19 July 2011 - 11:19 PM

[ansible]

Kurt Montandon, on 19 July 2011 - 11:17 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 19 July 2011 - 11:00 PM, said:

Sigh.

Vote Kurt

... uh, aren't you in the same boat as me as far as not being cleared? Because again, I'm sure as hell not voting for myself.

We've had an almost complete sweep-through by our Finders, but not quite. Did both Finders hold-off last Night, or can we get one more person cleared?

Tatts said he wasn't going to put in a find, and I didn't either. It's lynch time, baby.

[Kurt Montandon]

ansible, on 19 July 2011 - 11:20 PM, said:

Kurt Montandon, on 19 July 2011 - 11:17 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 19 July 2011 - 11:00 PM, said:

Sigh.

Vote Kurt

... uh, aren't you in the same boat as me as far as not being cleared? Because again, I'm sure as hell not voting for myself.

We've had an almost complete sweep-through by our Finders, but not quite. Did both Finders hold-off last Night, or can we get one more person cleared?

Tatts said he wasn't going to put in a find, and I didn't either. It's lynch time, baby.

I agree completely. You'll pardon me if I don't look to swing - I like playing, at least when I have time.

Vote Shinrei

Who's avoided it once before, and I don't want to make an OMGUS dick move against Khell. It's a coin toss to me, as it should be to anyone at this point.

[Grief]

Khellendros, on 19 July 2011 - 11:13 PM, said:

ansible, on 19 July 2011 - 11:04 PM, said:

Grief, on 19 July 2011 - 11:00 PM, said:

Still, I'd say that we're doing fairly well. There are 2 scum at the moment(rebel MH and original), and we've narrowed both down to 3 people.

This is interesting... I still think there is some disagreement on whether there is one MH or two. I have to say I originally interpreted the OP as there being two, but I could see it only being one as well...

The thing is, if there ARE two, and we've narrowed it down to 3 people right now... When we hit MH, only one jump will occur. Which means, out of those 2 people left, one of them would still be MH, even though the rest of our information has reset...

Ergo, we would need to keep lynching from this pool of 3 players until we hit MH twice (which would be so, so fucking nice...). That would give town considerably better odds to hit one more lynch target before resorting to finds.

Which is exactly why I also think there is only one MH at any one time, otherwise this situation occurs in which the town effectively gets a free go at killing MH. I think it's just too easy for town to get MH if there's two options to go for - there being only one also makes our current situation - why neither finds nor kills has managed to root out MH yet - more understandable.

This makes no sense considering the OP.

Vote Khell

I think we got lucky with the finder sweep. Part of why I voiced this now(rather than post hitting MH) was to see who went "hey wait, no!".

I think shin and khell are scum. Shin was also bringing up his belief that only original MH can be found. This belief does not seem supported by the OP, and I strongly disagree with it. It is also exactly the line I would expect from scum in their situation.

[Khellendros]

I think if Kurt is lynched and subsequently found inno, the town is either horribly unlucky at this game (in the event that both I and Shin then turn out to be MH), or it means we've been fairly unlucky and that there was only one to begin. But I suspect Kurt will be found to be MH....and then, well, I don't know what you guys want to do. You could do finds on me and Shinrei. My opinion is that it would be safe as MH won't be likely to jump into us and I suspect Shin is inno, and I know I am, obviously. The risk is, of course, that I'm lying, or Shin is in fact another MH, and you end up using a find-kill to kill one of us - but even then that would be two MHs down and the FKs would still have another two shots remaining.

[Grief]

Khellendros, on 19 July 2011 - 11:29 PM, said:

I think if Kurt is lynched and subsequently found inno, the town is either horribly unlucky at this game (in the event that both I and Shin then turn out to be MH), or it means we've been fairly unlucky and that there was only one to begin. But I suspect Kurt will be found to be MH....and then, well, I don't know what you guys want to do. You could do finds on me and Shinrei. My opinion is that it would be safe as MH won't be likely to jump into us and I suspect Shin is inno, and I know I am, obviously. The risk is, of course, that I'm lying, or Shin is in fact another MH, and you end up using a find-kill to kill one of us - but even then that would be two MHs down and the FKs would still have another two shots remaining.

Using a FK would be a total waste. The FKs work regardless of the size of the suspect pool. It would be wasting a potentially fantastic chance for innos, as we would be unlikely to get the pool so small again.

[Khellendros]

Grief, on 19 July 2011 - 11:32 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 19 July 2011 - 11:29 PM, said:

I think if Kurt is lynched and subsequently found inno, the town is either horribly unlucky at this game (in the event that both I and Shin then turn out to be MH), or it means we've been fairly unlucky and that there was only one to begin. But I suspect Kurt will be found to be MH....and then, well, I don't know what you guys want to do. You could do finds on me and Shinrei. My opinion is that it would be safe as MH won't be likely to jump into us and I suspect Shin is inno, and I know I am, obviously. The risk is, of course, that I'm lying, or Shin is in fact another MH, and you end up using a find-kill to kill one of us - but even then that would be two MHs down and the FKs would still have another two shots remaining.

Using a FK would be a total waste. The FKs work regardless of the size of the suspect pool. It would be wasting a potentially fantastic chance for innos, as we would be unlikely to get the pool so small again.

Sure, but that's only if your belief that there are two MHs turns out to be correct. But as I said, I suspect only the one MH can be identified as such by the finders, while the other comes out as his first identity, the rebel. Up to you guys really. What I'm saying isn't scummy, I'm simply stating what I've stated since almost from the beginning. It's not like I'm suddenly changing my position to protect myself.

My suggestion is to lynch Kurt, who seemed to be everyone's favourite suspect a few moments ago along with Roldom, and is still my prime suspect, and then you can decide what to do with me and Shin.

[ansible]

Grief, on 19 July 2011 - 11:32 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 19 July 2011 - 11:29 PM, said:

I think if Kurt is lynched and subsequently found inno, the town is either horribly unlucky at this game (in the event that both I and Shin then turn out to be MH), or it means we've been fairly unlucky and that there was only one to begin. But I suspect Kurt will be found to be MH....and then, well, I don't know what you guys want to do. You could do finds on me and Shinrei. My opinion is that it would be safe as MH won't be likely to jump into us and I suspect Shin is inno, and I know I am, obviously. The risk is, of course, that I'm lying, or Shin is in fact another MH, and you end up using a find-kill to kill one of us - but even then that would be two MHs down and the FKs would still have another two shots remaining.

Using a FK would be a total waste. The FKs work regardless of the size of the suspect pool. It would be wasting a potentially fantastic chance for innos, as we would be unlikely to get the pool so small again.

Yeah, I have to agree with Grief here, suggesting that we stop lynching from the small pool we've narrowed down is straight-up scummy. This is town's (probably) one chance to get the pool narrowed down so small and we need to take massive advantage of it.

And reconsidering, I don't think two scum makes it too easy for town - we got pretty damn lucky that we haven't lost an MH to an FK yet. Statistically we should have had an MH kill and the info reset by now, which would make things harder for town. We got lucky, as I see it.

Vote Khell

[ansible]

Khellendros, on 19 July 2011 - 11:36 PM, said:

Grief, on 19 July 2011 - 11:32 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 19 July 2011 - 11:29 PM, said:

I think if Kurt is lynched and subsequently found inno, the town is either horribly unlucky at this game (in the event that both I and Shin then turn out to be MH), or it means we've been fairly unlucky and that there was only one to begin. But I suspect Kurt will be found to be MH....and then, well, I don't know what you guys want to do. You could do finds on me and Shinrei. My opinion is that it would be safe as MH won't be likely to jump into us and I suspect Shin is inno, and I know I am, obviously. The risk is, of course, that I'm lying, or Shin is in fact another MH, and you end up using a find-kill to kill one of us - but even then that would be two MHs down and the FKs would still have another two shots remaining.

Using a FK would be a total waste. The FKs work regardless of the size of the suspect pool. It would be wasting a potentially fantastic chance for innos, as we would be unlikely to get the pool so small again.

Sure, but that's only if your belief that there are two MHs turns out to be correct. But as I said, I suspect only the one MH can be identified as such by the finders, while the other comes out as his first identity, the rebel. Up to you guys really. What I'm saying isn't scummy, I'm simply stating what I've stated since almost from the beginning. It's not like I'm suddenly changing my position to protect myself.

My suggestion is to lynch Kurt, who seemed to be everyone's favourite suspect a few moments ago along with Roldom, and is still my prime suspect, and then you can decide what to do with me and Shin.

If one of the MH's can't be killed/identified by the finders, what the fuck is the point of the FKs? So we're supposed to lynch MH three times, except that he doesn't show up as MH from a find, which means he can't be killed by a find and would be "cleared" as inno by a find? No way.

The finders get no information about a player except for if they are or aren't MH. (I would know.) Not "This guy is inno," not your name, not whether you are town or not, just if you're MH. And if you do find MH, he dies.

[Grief]

"this player remains their current role and also is Meng Huo"
"At night they can find out whether someone is or isn't Meng Huo. If they find Meng Huo they automatically kill him"

It seems stupid that the finders, who can "find out whether someone is or isn't Meng Huo" and kill that person if they are, would not be able to find the person described as "also is Meng Huo".

If they cannot kill the rebel, then the rebel is not in fact Meng Huo, because "If they find Meng Huo they automatically kill him". Except the rules clearly state that the rebel is Meng Huo, meaning if they find the rebel then they kill him.

[Khellendros]

ansible, on 19 July 2011 - 11:40 PM, said:

Grief, on 19 July 2011 - 11:32 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 19 July 2011 - 11:29 PM, said:

I think if Kurt is lynched and subsequently found inno, the town is either horribly unlucky at this game (in the event that both I and Shin then turn out to be MH), or it means we've been fairly unlucky and that there was only one to begin. But I suspect Kurt will be found to be MH....and then, well, I don't know what you guys want to do. You could do finds on me and Shinrei. My opinion is that it would be safe as MH won't be likely to jump into us and I suspect Shin is inno, and I know I am, obviously. The risk is, of course, that I'm lying, or Shin is in fact another MH, and you end up using a find-kill to kill one of us - but even then that would be two MHs down and the FKs would still have another two shots remaining.

Using a FK would be a total waste. The FKs work regardless of the size of the suspect pool. It would be wasting a potentially fantastic chance for innos, as we would be unlikely to get the pool so small again.

Yeah, I have to agree with Grief here, suggesting that we stop lynching from the small pool we've narrowed down is straight-up scummy. This is town's (probably) one chance to get the pool narrowed down so small and we need to take massive advantage of it.

And reconsidering, I don't think two scum makes it too easy for town - we got pretty damn lucky that we haven't lost an MH to an FK yet. Statistically we should have had an MH kill and the info reset by now, which would make things harder for town. We got lucky, as I see it.

Vote Khell

It's not scummy from my point of view because my belief is that it will only end up with two more lynched innos (which, by the way, will leave us with only one more wrong lynch). Thus, what I'm saying and doing is in the belief that it will help town from making a mistake. I suspect it's beginning to be a bit late, but this sudden turn from what was a good plan makes little sense really.

Wouldn't it be nice to have Tattersail come back saying he decided to do a find on me and nothing came up? Sigh, I wish

[Khellendros]

ansible, on 19 July 2011 - 11:43 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 19 July 2011 - 11:36 PM, said:

Grief, on 19 July 2011 - 11:32 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 19 July 2011 - 11:29 PM, said:

I think if Kurt is lynched and subsequently found inno, the town is either horribly unlucky at this game (in the event that both I and Shin then turn out to be MH), or it means we've been fairly unlucky and that there was only one to begin. But I suspect Kurt will be found to be MH....and then, well, I don't know what you guys want to do. You could do finds on me and Shinrei. My opinion is that it would be safe as MH won't be likely to jump into us and I suspect Shin is inno, and I know I am, obviously. The risk is, of course, that I'm lying, or Shin is in fact another MH, and you end up using a find-kill to kill one of us - but even then that would be two MHs down and the FKs would still have another two shots remaining.

Using a FK would be a total waste. The FKs work regardless of the size of the suspect pool. It would be wasting a potentially fantastic chance for innos, as we would be unlikely to get the pool so small again.

Sure, but that's only if your belief that there are two MHs turns out to be correct. But as I said, I suspect only the one MH can be identified as such by the finders, while the other comes out as his first identity, the rebel. Up to you guys really. What I'm saying isn't scummy, I'm simply stating what I've stated since almost from the beginning. It's not like I'm suddenly changing my position to protect myself.

My suggestion is to lynch Kurt, who seemed to be everyone's favourite suspect a few moments ago along with Roldom, and is still my prime suspect, and then you can decide what to do with me and Shin.

If one of the MH's can't be killed/identified by the finders, what the fuck is the point of the FKs? So we're supposed to lynch MH three times, except that he doesn't show up as MH from a find, which means he can't be killed by a find and would be "cleared" as inno by a find? No way.

The finders get no information about a player except for if they are or aren't MH. (I would know.) Not "This guy is inno," not your name, not whether you are town or not, just if you're MH. And if you do find MH, he dies.

Right - and I'm saying that if you came across the rebel you'd just get his rebel identity back. Only the single-identity MH is identified as such, which is what the rebel becomes once the original is killed.

[Khellendros]

Grief, on 19 July 2011 - 11:44 PM, said:

"this player remains their current role and also is Meng Huo"
"At night they can find out whether someone is or isn't Meng Huo. If they find Meng Huo they automatically kill him"

It seems stupid that the finders, who can "find out whether someone is or isn't Meng Huo" and kill that person if they are, would not be able to find the person described as "also is Meng Huo".

If they cannot kill the rebel, then the rebel is not in fact Meng Huo, because "If they find Meng Huo they automatically kill him". Except the rules clearly state that the rebel is Meng Huo, meaning if they find the rebel then they kill him.

It does seem stupid, I agree. But that's the only thing that makes sense to me. In all honesty, I think it's a pretty messed up sentence that should have been better clarified by P-S.