[twelve]

Here is what I think we should do. Vote night and have

Tat - Find Ansible
other - FInd Tattersail

Then we would know for sure that Tat isn't a MH and our pool of cleared players is now 4

Then we all vote night and have

Tat - Find Grief
other - Find HiddenOne

Now we have 6 cleared players

Then you lynch me since everyone wants to and I am also in the MH suspect pool
That night have

Tat- no find
other-find Khell

Then town has only Roldom, Shinrei, Vengence or Kurt to pick from as MH

If they get another wrong lynch then it's down to just three. I don't see town getting 3 straight wrong lynches so most likely MH will be lynched no later than the 3rd attempt. If town gets three straight wrong lynches between 6 players then whoever is MH deserves the player of the game award.

repeat the process.

I don't recommend the finders trying to find more than half the players because if increases the chances that they will use up their kills too soon.

[twelve]

Vote Night

Because I like my plan. I'm also out for the weekend. See you all on Monday (Maybe. If you don't kill me)

[Khellendros]

Can you not explain why you want those people investigated above all the others? As long as Tat announces who he's going to investigate, that's all that really matters to me at the moment - so that the other finder knows not to investigate the same person. I won't throw out a list of suspects because I've got nothing to go on which isn't more than gut feeling. I don't think twelve is MH (but you never know), but I'm tempted to just put my vote there again just to, as he himself says, get rid of that bugbear once and for all.

There's nothing 'wrong' as such with twelve's plan, by which I mean sitting around waiting for the finders to find MH. If people want to play the slow, patient cat-and-mouse game then I'll go along with that. Lynching one or two innos may, however, speed up the process without bringing lasting harm to the town - seeing as any RI can become MH, it simply reduces the list of suspects, and not to a dangerous extent.

[ansible]

twelve, on 15 July 2011 - 07:05 PM, said:

Here is what I think we should do. Vote night and have

Tat - Find Ansible
other - FInd Tattersail

Then we would know for sure that Tat isn't a MH and our pool of cleared players is now 4

Then we all vote night and have

Tat - Find Grief
other - Find HiddenOne

Now we have 6 cleared players

Then you lynch me since everyone wants to and I am also in the MH suspect pool
That night have

Tat- no find
other-find Khell

Then town has only Roldom, Shinrei, Vengence or Kurt to pick from as MH

If they get another wrong lynch then it's down to just three. I don't see town getting 3 straight wrong lynches so most likely MH will be lynched no later than the 3rd attempt. If town gets three straight wrong lynches between 6 players then whoever is MH deserves the player of the game award.

repeat the process.

I don't recommend the finders trying to find more than half the players because if increases the chances that they will use up their kills too soon.

I can't believe this is so hard to understand... all of this would only be relevant until the first MH dies. If one of the finders happens to kill MH instead of targeting an inno, this entire process must restart because EVERYONE is now back under suspicion. Is it really worth it to risk the finds like this just to narrow the total suspect pool by 2 people? If you agree that a finder-kill should be saved until the end, then as soon as 2 have been used we can't use any more finds and we have to lynch just as randomly as we would today (minus 2 people, which is an increase of like 5%). The finders are much more likely to hit MH before the suspect pool is narrowed down sufficiently to sniff out MH for a lynch - you want the finders to target half the players, which is around a 50% chance to hit MH, before we even attempt to lynch... Odds are that we will never make it down to that 3 or 4 person pool before a find-kill wipes the slate again. Are we really going to bullshit around just for an extra 5% chance to lynch MH? Jesus God damn.

[Khellendros]

My advice to the finders, if they want to take it, is to make their own decisions about who to find - or go with the collective decision of all of us, rather than just the opinion of one person, like twelve, who, for all we know, may turn out to be a symp. I don't think that should be risked.

If people do want to go with the whole no-lynch thing, then we should all as a group agree to who we'd like to see investigated, so that we're doing at least that and not nothing at all.

[Khellendros]

ansible, on 15 July 2011 - 07:18 PM, said:

twelve, on 15 July 2011 - 07:05 PM, said:

Here is what I think we should do. Vote night and have

Tat - Find Ansible
other - FInd Tattersail

Then we would know for sure that Tat isn't a MH and our pool of cleared players is now 4

Then we all vote night and have

Tat - Find Grief
other - Find HiddenOne

Now we have 6 cleared players

Then you lynch me since everyone wants to and I am also in the MH suspect pool
That night have

Tat- no find
other-find Khell

Then town has only Roldom, Shinrei, Vengence or Kurt to pick from as MH

If they get another wrong lynch then it's down to just three. I don't see town getting 3 straight wrong lynches so most likely MH will be lynched no later than the 3rd attempt. If town gets three straight wrong lynches between 6 players then whoever is MH deserves the player of the game award.

repeat the process.

I don't recommend the finders trying to find more than half the players because if increases the chances that they will use up their kills too soon.

I can't believe this is so hard to understand... all of this would only be relevant until the first MH dies. If one of the finders happens to kill MH instead of targeting an inno, this entire process must restart because EVERYONE is now back under suspicion. Is it really worth it to risk the finds like this just to narrow the total suspect pool by 2 people? If you agree that a finder-kill should be saved until the end, then as soon as 2 have been used we can't use any more finds and we have to lynch just as randomly as we would today (minus 2 people, which is an increase of like 5%). The finders are much more likely to hit MH before the suspect pool is narrowed down sufficiently to sniff out MH for a lynch - you want the finders to target half the players, which is around a 50% chance to hit MH, before we even attempt to lynch... Odds are that we will never make it down to that 3 or 4 person pool before a find-kill wipes the slate again. Are we really going to bullshit around just for an extra 5% chance to lynch MH? Jesus God damn.

I wish I could have been this eloquent about it

[Khellendros]

Help! How do I search just for a certain person's posts? I mean, I've been able to do that, but then there's no multiquote button next to the results so I can't easily insert them into a case.

However, if you lot want to save me the trouble of putting together a jackass case, we may as well just vote for twelve as he's not even going to be here over the weekend

[Gust Hubb]

If twelve won't be around over the weekend, he'll just be mod-killed (since the game won't be on hold) and we can move on. You definitely have a burr named twelve in your panties don't you Kells.

As to Ansible, keep banging that head of yours. Insight will come, promise, just follow the stars. So, people (ansible or maybe a couple of others) are worried about playing for weeks straight. Well, we do have the night option to speed things up.

If we band together and either help the finders choose someone or let them do their thing (which seems silly because there will be overlap regardless when Tat doesn't know what the other finder is doing) and then just vote night, we can get the first MH in a matter of hours (we don't have to wait for the day to run out again like we have for the past two days...).

This really depends on whether people want to be patient and smart or reckless and rowdy. We definitely can just have fun, but don't expect the townies to have much success.

[Khellendros]

Gust Hubb, on 15 July 2011 - 09:34 PM, said:

If twelve won't be around over the weekend, he'll just be mod-killed (since the game won't be on hold) and we can move on. You definitely have a burr named twelve in your panties don't you Kells.

As to Ansible, keep banging that head of yours. Insight will come, promise, just follow the stars. So, people (ansible or maybe a couple of others) are worried about playing for weeks straight. Well, we do have the night option to speed things up.

If we band together and either help the finders choose someone or let them do their thing (which seems silly because there will be overlap regardless when Tat doesn't know what the other finder is doing) and then just vote night, we can get the first MH in a matter of hours (we don't have to wait for the day to run out again like we have for the past two days...).

This really depends on whether people want to be patient and smart or reckless and rowdy. We definitely can just have fun, but don't expect the townies to have much success.

A few points:

1) Twelve won't necessarily be asked to mod-killed if he's asked P-S to be allowed to take the weekend off. In fact, from what I remember, the mods are pretty relaxed about the time limit over the weekend as usually quite a few people are less likely to post. It might be worth asking P-S what their stance on the weekend is.

2) As Venge pointed out ages ago, voting for night is not as simple as you make it out to be. We always need six people to be around at the same time, and that's been rare if non-existent so far. So if we go down that route, we may be waiting around a lot longer than you envisage.

3) You are just not taking in ansible's point. That the finds will in all likelihood not work in the way twelve described it. You're not taking into account that everything resets once MH is killed. The more people that are around when that happens, the more suspects we have again than we would if we lynched. We shouldn't be afraid of lynching one or two innos in the process of narrowing down MH's options - the bonus being that we may even strike MH himself, you never know.

[Gust Hubb]

Khellendros, on 15 July 2011 - 09:50 PM, said:

Gust Hubb, on 15 July 2011 - 09:34 PM, said:

If twelve won't be around over the weekend, he'll just be mod-killed (since the game won't be on hold) and we can move on. You definitely have a burr named twelve in your panties don't you Kells.

As to Ansible, keep banging that head of yours. Insight will come, promise, just follow the stars. So, people (ansible or maybe a couple of others) are worried about playing for weeks straight. Well, we do have the night option to speed things up.

If we band together and either help the finders choose someone or let them do their thing (which seems silly because there will be overlap regardless when Tat doesn't know what the other finder is doing) and then just vote night, we can get the first MH in a matter of hours (we don't have to wait for the day to run out again like we have for the past two days...).

This really depends on whether people want to be patient and smart or reckless and rowdy. We definitely can just have fun, but don't expect the townies to have much success.

A few points:

1) Twelve won't necessarily be asked to mod-killed if he's asked P-S to be allowed to take the weekend off. In fact, from what I remember, the mods are pretty relaxed about the time limit over the weekend as usually quite a few people are less likely to post. It might be worth asking P-S what their stance on the weekend is. I appreciate you considering this. Will you or shall I send P-S the question?

2) As Venge pointed out ages ago, voting for night is not as simple as you make it out to be. We always need six people to be around at the same time, and that's been rare if non-existent so far. So if we go down that route, we may be waiting around a lot longer than you envisage. Yeah, I guess over the weekend that may be hard. Though we've had quite a few people on at the same time several times in this game (look at the time stamps) and I think that while we may not get 6 on at one time, we will definitely be able to speed things up if people are willing just to push through the early waiting game.

3) You are just not taking in ansible's point. That the finds will in all likelihood not work in the way twelve described it. You're not taking into account that everything resets once MH is killed. The more people that are around when that happens, the more suspects we have again than we would if we lynched. We shouldn't be afraid of lynching one or two innos in the process of narrowing down MH's options - the bonus being that we may even strike MH himself, you never know. I know the probability for the first Round (calculated it earlier) and that with two known finders, we should be able to whittle down the lynch potentials pretty quick (esp if the first time we have the finders look at the least likely MH people first to up the odds of the lynch succeeding, which is counterintuitive). I am aware that twelve is working in an ideal model and still would like him to provide us with the code/formulae/whatever he used to obtain his models. I could be convinced that a couple of quick day lynches were the way to go, but I would at least need to know who the other finder is because I don't want to just trust Tat implicitly and also have the possibility of lynching our other finder accidentally (even if the probability of that is low). I just think ansible is focusing in on frustration rather than opening up to a possibility of waiting longer than he'd like.

See green above.

[Path-Shaper]

For the weekend, I"m thinking I'll stop the timer (and modkill timer), but the game will continue, so if you lynch it will go to the next day but day will not time out.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 22 hours and 29 minutes remaining
12 Players still alive: ansible, Grief, Gust Hubb, HiddenOne, Khellendros, Kurt Montandon, Mentalist, Roldom, Shinrei, Tattersail, twelve, Vengeance

7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Night ( twelve )

Players not voted: ansible, Grief, Gust Hubb, HiddenOne, Khellendros, Kurt Montandon, Mentalist, Roldom, Shinrei, Tattersail, Vengeance

[Khellendros]

Hey Tattersail, out of curiosity, what name did P-S give you?

[Vengeance]

ansible, on 15 July 2011 - 07:18 PM, said:

twelve, on 15 July 2011 - 07:05 PM, said:

Here is what I think we should do. Vote night and have

Tat - Find Ansible
other - FInd Tattersail

Then we would know for sure that Tat isn't a MH and our pool of cleared players is now 4

Then we all vote night and have

Tat - Find Grief
other - Find HiddenOne

Now we have 6 cleared players

Then you lynch me since everyone wants to and I am also in the MH suspect pool
That night have

Tat- no find
other-find Khell

Then town has only Roldom, Shinrei, Vengence or Kurt to pick from as MH

If they get another wrong lynch then it's down to just three. I don't see town getting 3 straight wrong lynches so most likely MH will be lynched no later than the 3rd attempt. If town gets three straight wrong lynches between 6 players then whoever is MH deserves the player of the game award.

repeat the process.

I don't recommend the finders trying to find more than half the players because if increases the chances that they will use up their kills too soon.

I can't believe this is so hard to understand... all of this would only be relevant until the first MH dies. If one of the finders happens to kill MH instead of targeting an inno, this entire process must restart because EVERYONE is now back under suspicion. Is it really worth it to risk the finds like this just to narrow the total suspect pool by 2 people? If you agree that a finder-kill should be saved until the end, then as soon as 2 have been used we can't use any more finds and we have to lynch just as randomly as we would today (minus 2 people, which is an increase of like 5%). The finders are much more likely to hit MH before the suspect pool is narrowed down sufficiently to sniff out MH for a lynch - you want the finders to target half the players, which is around a 50% chance to hit MH, before we even attempt to lynch... Odds are that we will never make it down to that 3 or 4 person pool before a find-kill wipes the slate again. Are we really going to bullshit around just for an extra 5% chance to lynch MH? Jesus God damn.

[Mentalist]

Gust Hubb, on 15 July 2011 - 09:34 PM, said:

If twelve won't be around over the weekend, he'll just be mod-killed (since the game won't be on hold) and we can move on. You definitely have a burr named twelve in your panties don't you Kells.

As to Ansible, keep banging that head of yours. Insight will come, promise, just follow the stars. So, people (ansible or maybe a couple of others) are worried about playing for weeks straight. Well, we do have the night option to speed things up.

If we band together and either help the finders choose someone or let them do their thing (which seems silly because there will be overlap regardless when Tat doesn't know what the other finder is doing) and then just vote night, we can get the first MH in a matter of hours (we don't have to wait for the day to run out again like we have for the past two days...).

This really depends on whether people want to be patient and smart or reckless and rowdy. We definitely can just have fun, but don't expect the townies to have much success.

wait, what? fuck, i'll be camping the entire weekend sans nets.

[Grief]

We failed to lynch again? Poor show that.

I'm kind of on the fence about Tattersail being found.

Reasons for:

I'm not really sure MH wouldn't fake reveal. He's got a bunch of lives to fall back on and so it could easily be worth gambling to gain trust for a few days, direct the innos a bit towards people he thinks threaten him, or draw out the true finders(since it's bad for MH to have the finders unknown late in the game, since they can thwart him even if he gets a majority).

Reasons against:

If it's a symp(which is probably more likely than MH) a find may well tell us nothing.

We may receive verification anyway, if Tatttersail manages to find MH.

[Mentalist]

so, now you all know i'm inno. at least untill MH dies, at which point all previous finds become moot.

I seriously don't see MH fake-revealing at this point. too much risk, next to no reward, unless he can convince us to vote off a real FK. which wouldn't happen at thri point of the game, since instead of risking that we always have the foolproof option of letting the two people who both claim to be finders to investigate each other, to find out who is the real deal.


so i'd urge the second finder to step up.

I do, however, remain of the opinion that an "inno find" is nowhere as useful in this game as it would be in a regular M+P. that is perhaps hte only aspect of the game which resembles a town v cult scenario. See, Gust? I can concede points, too,

that being said, I won't be around at all this weekend. might be around on Monday, if we get back form camping sunday and not Monday. Monday we have a slide night at work. althouhg, shit, I might not be able to go, if this business with my neck is any indication (see groove thread for details on that). then i'll be around monday.

hope you all have a great weekend.

[Roldom]

Grief, on 16 July 2011 - 02:02 AM, said:

I'm not really sure MH wouldn't fake reveal. He's got a bunch of lives to fall back on and so it could easily be worth gambling to gain trust for a few days, direct the innos a bit towards people he thinks threaten him, or draw out the true finders(since it's bad for MH to have the finders unknown late in the game, since they can thwart him even if he gets a majority).

how can MH get a majority? the only chance that can happen is when we are down to 3 players....

as an aside

vote night


we need our finders to get to finding!

im guessing that twelves list of who to find was the players he thought least likely to be MH so to narrow the field, rather than actually hit a MH

[Khellendros]

Roldom, on 16 July 2011 - 09:19 AM, said:

Grief, on 16 July 2011 - 02:02 AM, said:

I'm not really sure MH wouldn't fake reveal. He's got a bunch of lives to fall back on and so it could easily be worth gambling to gain trust for a few days, direct the innos a bit towards people he thinks threaten him, or draw out the true finders(since it's bad for MH to have the finders unknown late in the game, since they can thwart him even if he gets a majority).

how can MH get a majority? the only chance that can happen is when we are down to 3 players....

as an aside

vote night


we need our finders to get to finding!

im guessing that twelves list of who to find was the players he thought least likely to be MH so to narrow the field, rather than actually hit a MH

Oh dear God.

So, let's get this straight. We should not lynch. We should do nothing during the day. We should always vote night. And then, AND THEN, we should make sure the finders investigate those people WE DON'T believe to be MH?!?! Tell you what MH, you're way too hot for us. We're going to dance around you though, but never actually touch you. For absolutely as long as we can manage. Because you're clearly the shit-scariest thing we've ever encountered in Mafia, and we sure don't want to rile you by, you know, actually trying to catch you or anything.

Seriously, what would be the point of investigating people we don't believe to be MH? Last time: everyone - Gust, Mentalist - EVERYONE bar the finders - will stop being inno as soon as MH is killed. Going around verifying people are inno serves absolutely no purpose.

Deep breaths.

[Khellendros]

Let me clarify that last statement. Yes, knowing people are inno does serve the purpose of making sure we don't lynch them. But our ultimate goal is not to find out who NOT to lynch, is it? The finders should not be asked to deliberately do finds on those people we don't suspect to be MH. I hate to sound like a broken record, but at this early stage of the game, there is no real reason to fear lynching the wrong person when there's so many of us left.

That being said, I may as well take the initiative and back up what I say by attempting to construct a couple of cases. I'll try and do that at some point today.