[Mockra]

Out of the ones that Emurlahn highlights, Ruse and Osseric raise the most alarm bells for me. There seems to be something going on there, but I need to take a closer look at the interaction, and at Osseric's, fairly dismissive, responses to Emur's case. And is Silanah now building a case on Osseric? Interesting stuff.

[Ruse]

Hmm, I feel like Emur did on day 1. Who am I NOT symping?

[Meanas]

Ruse, on 06 October 2011 - 02:26 PM, said:

Meanas, on 06 October 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

So why is there so much agreement then? Well, there isn’t, in point of fact. What Emurlahn has pointed out is the most active players thus far INTERACTING with each other. We’re all being polite and agreeable precisely because (at leats in my case) we DON’T know each other – thus, we can’t be sure if that person is in our faction or not, until they make some kind of slip up. This is the kind of play that Tiamatha did not indulge in, being rude and self-important, and is part of the reason why people were so willing to lynch them.

I agree with you. However if I were to read between the lines (and I do), you seem to be trying hard to imply that you absolutely didn't know anyone...

Not implying, stating. All those people Emur links me with, including yourself, I have no idea if they are in my faction or not (well, not quite true, I have a few suspicions obviously, but nothing definitive), and I have no idea if they know what faction I'm in. Thus, there could be someone trying to purposefully agree with me, and there could be others within those connections purposefully cooperating with each other, but I know nothing for certain.

It is, however, my suspicion at the moment that most of the links Emur provides is just interaction between people who don't know each other, because it goes all the way to the very beginning of the game, when most would have had no clue about anyone else in their team.

Edit: sentence structure.

This post has been edited by Meanas: 06 October 2011 - 02:34 PM

[Emurlahn]

i'm back. have about 40 mins before class.

I see all three of my main suspects have had a chance to come back and respond to my case.

to summarize: Osseric dismissed it and went on to continue his counter case against me. I will respond to that in my next post.
Sorritt got offended at my suggestion that she was leading, and pointed out that not all of her cases were accepted. it's a fair point,and I never argued otherwise. in fact, when I started making the case, it was primarily based on Osseric-Meanas interaction. Sorrit entered it at around day 2 on my re-read when I noticed a tendency that she'd make a case, and it would be picked up by either Osseric or Meanas. this in itself doesn't prove a link, since they may simply be amplifying her ideas for their own uses. nonetheless due to her also being fairly eary on trains I've included her.

Meanas: he has defended himself, tried to point out inconsistencies (him and Osserc leading 2 trains on day 2). which doesn't really contradict my main point that they've had an identical agenda in the beginnning of day2--as i've shown.
nonetheless, he has taken the case seriously, and specifically pointed out that the other people i've mentioned warrant some attention.

now, the focus of my case was not only on individuals--it was designed to shake people into action. several times a sentiment has been raised that "we should look elsewhere", but for whatever reasons (planned or not), these were stifled. I wanted to take a look at why, and to show the people who did that.

I may also mention that this whole thing started with Gamelon finding a "signal" in my post directed at Atrahal. who has been happily coasting for the last 3 days. just saying.

[Silanah]

Okay I had to leave for class in the middle of the thread, but it was canceled SO let me continue on Osseric's specifics.

[Emurlahn]

Osseric, on 06 October 2011 - 05:35 AM, said:

Emurlahn, on 06 October 2011 - 05:33 AM, said:

Osseric, on 06 October 2011 - 05:27 AM, said:

Okaros, on 06 October 2011 - 05:22 AM, said:

This seems like a blatant disregard for the case he has presented against you. We all had suspicions against Emur early game, so if he or she were to choose almost any other it would probably be someone who had struggled with the decision to vote for him early game. It is less convenient, and should be expected, that he/she found two that did confront him.

This post is a blatant disregard for the case he presented, it is a continuation of the case I make against him. I address his case in other posts.

If he thinks that leaders would play by attacking and confronting so that his peoples can follow (disregarding the fact that leaders don't know their flock themselves), then fine, what can I say, that's how I played. Like Gamelon said, you need to attack a bit if you want the seams to show.

meh, we'll conclude this tomorrow, once we have a night scene.
just to reiterate:

unless i'm mistaken, your case consists of the following

I played suspiciously (signalling) on day 1.

when accused of signalling on a flimsy case, I "freaked out"

when I managed to no get lynched, I "went under", and started cruising.

I only respond when provoked

is that it?

Perfect

Osseric, on 06 October 2011 - 05:37 AM, said:

Just one more thing:

The first serious vote of the game was Gamelon votes Emurlahn.

A few hours later, Gamelon was lynched, with votes based on 3-4 different stated reasons.

That's circonstancial, but one of the reasons I kept my eye open on Emurlahn.

this is the case Osseric has built on me.
my response, i point you to post #162

Emurlahn, on 29 September 2011 - 05:23 PM, said:

Korlat, on 29 September 2011 - 04:54 PM, said:

Emur's reaction is doing him no favours, every time I think of gamelon as suspicious himself Emur seems to do or say something that makes it hard to ignore him, he seems to be ruffling people without effectively defending himself which seems strange for day 1, I would feel much less suspicious of him if he just calmly replied to the original accusation but the way he has reacted seems strange and discordant.

hurr
durr

I replied to the original accusation.

it was RP. I wrote "studying to pass ivil official examinations" cuz I was doing homework.



for law school.

"ga,me" was a typo.



"ru,se" and "m,eanas" was sarcasm.



anyhting else I may enlighten you on?



also, I don't suppose I can NOT sound discordant when the time at which i reply there's no one else on.

as a response for my day 1 behaviour.

my post #790

Emurlahn, on 06 October 2011 - 05:25 AM, said:

also, I hate to drag RL in this, but it's true:

monday and Tuesday I have about 3 hours of free time in a day (I work evening shifts).

the rest of the week I have about 8.
game started on Wednesday. check my posting rates throughtout the week.

my burst of activity is only partially motivated by the lynch threat. I was gonna take a look at other people anyhow, once I had time.

yes, RL. deal with it. if I had more classes and less time, even if my lynch was imminent I wouldn't make cases. time is finite.

and, lastly

Gamelon voted me. he was lynched. these are facts I can't dispute.

Osseric was the first vote on the Gamelon train and he never removed it. and the "few" hours he mentions were almost 30 hours (we nearly timed out day 1). strawman much?

[Silanah]

Osseric, on 05 October 2011 - 07:12 AM, said:

Emurlahn, on 04 October 2011 - 08:43 PM, said:

back from nap (good)

gotta go to class and then work (bad)



people still can't move on past Tiam, it seems. to thepoint of failing reading comprehension.

Looking at the post count, Emurlahn is one of the highest poster. And yet I don't remember him confronting any of the other players, and coming out with anything of value except the occasional nodding to what is said and facebook posts. Besides also the comma business which he handled miserably.

You keep saying Yan is the biggest faction. Where do you get that? What's your point? You want to hunt Yan, say it. Don't just drop some lame hints and complain that people don't get them. You want to hunt Yan? Serc was Yan. What did Serc do? What did Serc say? You want to do something and get your ideas through instead of cruising along? Cause so far Emurlahn is hiding in plain sight.

Here Osseric calls Emur out on not doing anything (Understandable, this was before his 4 massive posts). Yet the only thing Osseric has done to this point was point out the next in line to be lynched, he hasn't really made any cases. Osseric seems mighty suspicious.

[Silanah]

Osseric, on 05 October 2011 - 07:35 AM, said:

I'm a bit surprised about the lack of pressure on Tiam so far today.

Comment 1: Was Serc telling the truth about her? Well, we know Serc was a CO with finding abilities, and he was Yan. He revealed Tiam as Xia. What did he have to win by lying?

Comment 2: We know the Usurper appeared last night, with a nice "pheonix reborn" scene that also tells us that he is in one of the three "empire" factions. We know Tiam is part of the empire factions. Her revealed name doesn't fit, but was the Usurper called Sima Yi from the start? (i.e. can she be found before activating?).

Now, if someone can explain to me why the Usurper should be in Yan, I'm all ears, because I'm not sure I get it. If that's the case, maybe we should indeed try to re-read and figure out candidates from Serc's posts, but if the Usurper is a civil official, Serc would not necesserally know of him. It would not be an easy task

Comment 3: Tiam's faction is revealed in a faction game. Sorry, but she's a dead woman walking. Everyone but his team should want her lynched, and his team can't afford to sound hesitant. Unless those looking for her location are trying to get her vigged, but meh.

vote Tiam

In this post (as well as the previous I replied to), Osseric AGAIN refuses something involving the Yan. I'm thinking that Osseric is an Emperor, from previous posts, and the way he defends Yan leads me to believe he is their emporer.

[Silanah]

Osseric, on 06 October 2011 - 05:08 AM, said:

Emurlahn, on 05 October 2011 - 06:49 PM, said:

secondly: a lot of you seem to think i'm Xia. more power to you. since you do think that, i'll play along and tell you why it's a bad idea to vote Xia.

the game had 25 players.

3 families, 2 warlords, and the usurper.


now, keep in mind, this game was designed a while ago, before we played the tales. so, the final showdown was always going to feature 3 kingdoms + the usurper.
if the usurper is a 1 man faction, we would be looking at 3 families, 8 man strong.

however, the warlords were added, because the Xia and the Lu lost their minis. thus, the warlord factions were "carved out" of their allotment of players. meaning, they started out with 5-6 players each. let's assume (WCS for me, since i'm supposedly Xia) that the northern kingdoms have 5 each, and hte warlords each have 3 (warlord, champion and someone we don't know yet). that leaves yan with 8. minus Sima Yi. still 7

now, lu lost one, yan lost one. no guarantees that last night's recruit was Yan. no matter how you put it, Yan has plurality at this point.

since all of you assume i'm xia, i'm gonna do what a xia would do in this situation--that is, look for more Yan.

When did anyone called you Xia? What an emo post.

I just accused you of not confronting anyone, repeating the same thing (Yan iz big!) without going anywhere with this idea (and getting annoyed when others didn't either)

About the Yan: Maybe I don't put enough importance to the influence of previous games, but if Lu and Xia have to deal with the warlords and not Yan, then balance rules would actually tell me that Yan would be smaller than the others, since they already have a "geographical" advantage. It's not like D'rek would double-punish two factions in a game just because the way other players played in previous ones. To me, if the Usurper is in the Yan, then the geographical advantage might be balanced, so I feel everyone is equal in size.

Then saw your mega-posts, but I'm not certain if you accuse me or Meanas there (or everyone else that you mention in there). I just like how you read into the fact that after you spazzed out (you can't defend from a typo? how about just saying " , and m are next to each other on the keyboard " instead of freaking out like a vampire in a garlic factory?) those that attacked you were "zombies". Maybe many people say you just acted strange, you know?

Osseric is OBSESSED with the Yan. After this re-read it is extremely obvious.

[Emurlahn]

Karosis, on 06 October 2011 - 08:43 AM, said:

Anyways....

SO... we have Osseric and his supposed "cronies" (sorrit, is it?) who has rightly so, accused Ehmur of laying low after getting out of a tight situation on day one.
And that he conveniently returns after his name starts getting pandered around.

I am actually not 100% certain as to what this is even supposed to prove.
I mean, wouldn't anybody lay low in this game after something like that?
Half of the game here is survival, we arent looking for "scum" per se. In a sense everyone is scum to everyone else just about right?
People on your own team might play that way...meh.
Just because Ehmur was laying low doesnt mean he is not on your team...

Ok i get the fact that you are trying to say that someone laying low is someone of importance or especially sought after like the usurper...fair enough
yet...Doesnt every group have "someone of importance"?


The again... we do have Ehmurlan coming back with a VENGEANCE here.
He explains his absence as pure RL issues and again that is understandable... yet convenient.

I dunno...but i believe ehmur in that he has had RL issues... fair enough.
Only thing that grabs my attention is the manner in which he has "returned".

He has attacked his main accusers, and he has made a HUGE splash after being rather quiet, again very convenient as his main detractors are saying that he has not said much in ways of content.

sigh...

i dont know what to make of it.... it is interesting none the less.
I get the feeling ehmur is having a knee jerk reaction to being accused of laying low when he actually did not really having the time to play.

But, he has made a few funny/false statement to try and back up his claims.
Like claiming that his accusers are still harping on the comma issue and another fallacy is that he claims no one has mentioned low posters as an alternative?
Strange that, considering i read at least three people mention going after low posters yesterday and one of he main reasons people are looking at HIM is his lack of content since day one...ie low poster..hurr durr

*shrugg*


im not even sure what im getting at, just putting my thoughts down to mull over after catching up.



got some work to do will be checking on periodically.
oh....its still night?...completely overlooked that

oh, and I wanted to respond to this, as I was reading up.

my statement that people were still hung up on the comma issue wasn't entirely false. the first point in the case against me was day 1 signalling. and page 17 is chock full of people saying "well, he had all this attention on Day 1, and then nothing". the very fact that they are talking about Day 1 means they are talking about the comma to some extent.

also, as I pointed out, for Meanas and osseric, I was always on the list of people to be "looked at". I never left that particular list, so it's wrong to say that i'm being looked at simply for being a "low-content poster"--there are plenty of people who can fit that description (off the top of my head: Atrahal, Korlat, Sheltatha, Thyrlahn, Hood's Path). the fact that none of them are being looked at in any fashion, and we are sticking with the same suspects shows remarkable consistency on the part of the people who seem to steer the agenda. coupled with the constant support they were receiving, in a faction game, one can't help but become suspicious.

[Emurlahn]

I have to go to class. I'll be back in about 3 hours

meanwhile, I'm gonna put my money where my mouth is

vote Osseric
for attempting to run the game, for strawmanning me, and because I susspect him to be a high-ranking player due to the deference he gets on thread.

[Hood's Path]

Osseric, on 06 October 2011 - 05:08 AM, said:

Emurlahn, on 05 October 2011 - 06:49 PM, said:

secondly: a lot of you seem to think i'm Xia. more power to you. since you do think that, i'll play along and tell you why it's a bad idea to vote Xia.

the game had 25 players.

3 families, 2 warlords, and the usurper.


now, keep in mind, this game was designed a while ago, before we played the tales. so, the final showdown was always going to feature 3 kingdoms + the usurper.
if the usurper is a 1 man faction, we would be looking at 3 families, 8 man strong.

however, the warlords were added, because the Xia and the Lu lost their minis. thus, the warlord factions were "carved out" of their allotment of players. meaning, they started out with 5-6 players each. let's assume (WCS for me, since i'm supposedly Xia) that the northern kingdoms have 5 each, and hte warlords each have 3 (warlord, champion and someone we don't know yet). that leaves yan with 8. minus Sima Yi. still 7

now, lu lost one, yan lost one. no guarantees that last night's recruit was Yan. no matter how you put it, Yan has plurality at this point.

since all of you assume i'm xia, i'm gonna do what a xia would do in this situation--that is, look for more Yan.

When did anyone called you Xia? What an emo post.

I just accused you of not confronting anyone, repeating the same thing (Yan iz big!) without going anywhere with this idea (and getting annoyed when others didn't either)

About the Yan: Maybe I don't put enough importance to the influence of previous games, but if Lu and Xia have to deal with the warlords and not Yan, then balance rules would actually tell me that Yan would be smaller than the others, since they already have a "geographical" advantage. It's not like D'rek would double-punish two factions in a game just because the way other players played in previous ones. To me, if the Usurper is in the Yan, then the geographical advantage might be balanced, so I feel everyone is equal in size.

Then saw your mega-posts, but I'm not certain if you accuse me or Meanas there (or everyone else that you mention in there). I just like how you read into the fact that after you spazzed out (you can't defend from a typo? how about just saying " , and m are next to each other on the keyboard " instead of freaking out like a vampire in a garlic factory?) those that attacked you were "zombies". Maybe many people say you just acted strange, you know?

Remember D'rek mentioned that in the last mini if Meng Huo was defeated then the Yan would have an advantage in the next game and balance wasn't a consideration so I believe Emur's suggestion is actually legit and the players that would have been the barabians to the south of the Yan are now part of the Yan empire. Now the speculation that Sima Yi is in the Yan is just that, speculation. I believe that the Usurper could have been placed in either Jiang Xia, Luo Yang or Han Zhong and still have the same odds of gaining a recruit. That is if you go with the assumption that he can recruit warlords along with members of each main dynasty. The only reason that Jiang Xia is slightly more likely is that if D'rek wanted to cut into the Yan's number advantage then the Usuper in Jiang Xia would make sense.

[Silanah]

In conclusion to my multitude of posts:

Osseric is an obvious choice for the Yan emperor after reading through.

There's my option for a lynch today. Someone give me another option, if you see a better one.

Vote Osseric

Early day vote, will change as needed.

Edit: X-posted with emur and HP.

This post has been edited by Silanah: 06 October 2011 - 03:25 PM

[Osseric]

Woa, lots of info there

A comment I want to make: Silanah has become obsessed about me, because Silanah is a finder and she must have investigated me as not in her team last night.

So she wants me lynched, and for this she can't say why, so she tries to make me into an Emperor to convince you to vote (because that's the only way to convince people to vote, we all know our Emperors so if someone we don't know is an Emperor, he's not ours). After my CF she's just go "oops, that was unexpected" , sound contrite on thread and pat herself in the back silently.


She's trying wayyy to hard to take everyone of my posts, summarize, and add at the end "... so he's an Emperor". Sometimes it will be hard to answer because I don't always see the logic. But I will make a statement in my next post.

[Hood's Path]

Telas, on 06 October 2011 - 09:24 AM, said:

Karosis, on 06 October 2011 - 09:17 AM, said:

there has definately been a game where someone had some sort of vote ability.

Whether it was someone having his vote count 2 or not count at all i cant remeber....there was something like that however.

In the City of Saints and Madmen game the Doppelganger could force people to vote for his choice. There's also been a role that could deny others the right to vote at all I think. I would be surprised if there hasn't been a role that nullified the vote of another player, but I can't remember a specific case.

I think the most likely senerio is that an action was taken to nullify someone's vote.

[Osseric]

Shit, too many, I don't know where to start.


Comment 1, about the Yan: In her selected quotes, I do mention the Yan a lot, but that's because I was reacting to Emurlahn's constant repetition that Yan was the plurity faction, and I couldn't figure out why he was thinking that or what was his point.

[Hood's Path]

Rashan, on 06 October 2011 - 11:01 AM, said:

Kessobahn, on 06 October 2011 - 04:43 AM, said:

Here is the most recent train, which needed 13/12 votes

13 Votes for Tiamatha ( Osseric, Tennes, Sheltatha Lore, Galain, Emurlahn, Mockra, Sorritt, Karosis, Kessobahn, Rashan, Silanah, Okaros, Hood's Path )

Here is the day 2 lynch, which needed 13/13

13 Votes for Serc ( Sorritt, Sheltatha Lore, Omtose, Osseric, Telas, Kessobahn, Meanas, Okaros, Emurlahn, Tennes, Barghast, Atrahal, Korlat )

And here is the day 1 lynch, which also needed 13/13

13 Votes for Gamelon ( Osseric, Ruse, Kessobahn, Silanah, Galain, Karosis, Sorritt, Emurlahn, Barghast, Korlat, Omtose, Okaros, Atrahal )

Mockra, Rashan, and Hood's Path did not vote in the two 'normal' lynches but did vote in this one.

How interesting.

I would like to point out that one the second day, both Mockra and I voted for Tiam, and Hood's Path didn't vote for anyone (nor did he vote on Day 1 btw):

5 Votes for Tiamatha ( Ruse, Rashan, Serc, Silanah, Mockra )


Also, If we want to do a rule out trial, I am willing to be the only one of the three on the next lynch train so as to confirm that my vote counts. Just an idea on how to approach this new twist, just let me know.

If my vote wouldn't have counted and I knew I hadn't voted in the previous two lynch trains, do you think I would be stupid enough to put a vote down. I don't think so. In cases like this the obvious answer is probably the most likely senario. An action was taken that nullified someone's vote.

[Osseric]

About me "leading" the votes:

1) I didn't play following my Emperor's votes, I don't know about you, but that's not a smart way to me IMHO. It attracts people on them (me being the proof), and I don't think he has THAT much more information than me, specially in the first days.

2) Did I lead the votes? My vote on Gamelon was a joke, then there was a HUGE discussion that I missed, and when I came back he was L-1/soon hammered. On day 2 I was attacking Tiam and Serc, persuing the leads we had on day 1. I was far from the only one doing that, and put my vote only when it was about 2-2 or 3-3 in the votes. I actually chose Serc after his finder reveal because who wants to keep revealed finders around?. For Tiam, I was the first to vote and I regret nothing. That was the smartest move to do to not give hints about my faction. If you don't see that wake up, it's a faction game.

[Meanas]

Osseric, on 06 October 2011 - 03:27 PM, said:

Woa, lots of info there

A comment I want to make: Silanah has become obsessed about me, because Silanah is a finder and she must have investigated me as not in her team last night.

So she wants me lynched, and for this she can't say why, so she tries to make me into an Emperor to convince you to vote (because that's the only way to convince people to vote, we all know our Emperors so if someone we don't know is an Emperor, he's not ours). After my CF she's just go "oops, that was unexpected" , sound contrite on thread and pat herself in the back silently.


She's trying wayyy to hard to take everyone of my posts, summarize, and add at the end "... so he's an Emperor". Sometimes it will be hard to answer because I don't always see the logic. But I will make a statement in my next post.

What do you mean by the bolded part? I for one don't know who my emperor is, and I warrant the majority of players don't know the identity of their emperors.

Edit: Ugh, ignore. For some reason I thought you were speaking about the PM. Brain melt fart.

This post has been edited by Meanas: 06 October 2011 - 03:42 PM

[Osseric]

About my style of play:

In such a huge game, important roles will cruise. I mean that literally. If I felt me getting lynched or killed could seriously affect my team (hence my chances to win), I would lay low. I don't have this feeling from my role, so I go and play with a certain abandon and I try to make things happen (Emurlahn woke up when I twisted his tits, Hood's Path is finally in the game after seeing his name mentioned too many times for his comfort).

Now, before you call WIFOM, WIFOM only applies if one of the stategies is not ass-stupid, cause I'm not stupid. I fully expect my ass to have been throughly investigated at night , and I decided to play like this under the assumption that even if one is successful, a finder will see I'm small fish, even if not on his team, and will not kill himself by revealing just to get me lynched. They might try to push a "case" like Silanah is doing, though.