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I've got just a minute; a couple comments:
Serc's reveal is confirmed re: Tiam, ok
Emurlahn throws wall of text, nice case making - I have to agree to some extent that there is some teamwork there, but I'm not sure about giving credit/blame for a conspiracy to run the game - that would tend to get people lynched/killed, whatever because somebody on here would sniff that out and retaliate IMO. A bold play if true, coincidence if not.
The extra vote thing - could be role based, but I think the OP says that locations can have an effect on things, so maybe somebody moved into a tile that gave them that ability or cost them a vote, etc. It's the 1st time this happened. Also, is it just me or have the voting orders on the trains been altered? For example, I'm listed 3rd by P-S but I voted about 11th. I think that is more of the same mechanics that are affecting votes, the train is being obscured somehow. Anybody else see that?
Alright, I'm going to go back an read again, there was too much to digest.
Mafia 78 - Rot3K Chapter 6: The End of the Three Kingdoms Game Thread
#821
Sheltatha Lore 
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Posted 06 October 2011 - 12:44 PM
#823
Path-Shaper
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Posted 06 October 2011 - 12:48 PM
It is 228 AD (Day 4). 35 hours and 59 minutes remaining
21 Players still alive: Atrahal, Barghast, Emurlahn, Galain, Hood's Path, Karosis, Kaschan, Kessobahn, Korlat, Meanas, Mockra, Okaros, Omtose, Osseric, Ruse, Sheltatha Lore, Silanah, Sorritt, Telas, Tennes, Thyrllan
11 votes to lynch, 11 votes to go to night.
Players not voted: Atrahal, Barghast, Emurlahn, Galain, Hood's Path, Karosis, Kaschan, Kessobahn, Korlat, Meanas, Mockra, Okaros, Omtose, Osseric, Ruse, Sheltatha Lore, Silanah, Sorritt, Telas, Tennes, Thyrllan
---
Some NA results still going out, be done those in a few minutes.
21 Players still alive: Atrahal, Barghast, Emurlahn, Galain, Hood's Path, Karosis, Kaschan, Kessobahn, Korlat, Meanas, Mockra, Okaros, Omtose, Osseric, Ruse, Sheltatha Lore, Silanah, Sorritt, Telas, Tennes, Thyrllan
11 votes to lynch, 11 votes to go to night.
Players not voted: Atrahal, Barghast, Emurlahn, Galain, Hood's Path, Karosis, Kaschan, Kessobahn, Korlat, Meanas, Mockra, Okaros, Omtose, Osseric, Ruse, Sheltatha Lore, Silanah, Sorritt, Telas, Tennes, Thyrllan
---
Some NA results still going out, be done those in a few minutes.
Only someone with this much power could make this many frittatas without breaking any eggs.
#824
Path-Shaper
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Posted 06 October 2011 - 01:06 PM
Dawn resolution thingies over too, we're on to mainstream day 4.
Only someone with this much power could make this many frittatas without breaking any eggs.
#826
Meanas
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Posted 06 October 2011 - 01:42 PM
Alright, a response to Emurlahn’s case. I’m going to attempt to just stick to defending myself, as for all I know Emur could be spot on about his accusations concerning other people.
So for what it’s worth, I’m glad Emurlahn has managed to shine the spotlight on others.
Ok, first to deal with some accusations thrown out by the case. 1) I am debating who could/should be lynched next before the current lynch has gone through; 2) I am attempting to make people look at and vote for the people I highlight.
To both those accusations:
Yes, I am guilty. I am doing that. People ask where to go after a lynch is done, and I respond, saying, ‘well, such and such a person has caught my eye, has raised suspicion before, etc.’. Do I want these people to be lynched? Well, yes, otherwise why would I bring them up as possible targets? And I’m sorry, but I fail to see what’s wrong with that. If people have been paying as much attention as they should have been, they should have realised by now that I am not in the Xia faction. As such, wanting to go for Tiamatha was perfectly reasonable to me, as they were no teammate of mine. And wanting to go for Emurlahn subsequently is also perfectly reasonable to me, as I believe Emur to also be in the Xia faction.
Accusation no.3: I am purposefully not looking outside the small circle of suspects, and am attempting to make others be just as blinkered.
Again, I am guilty and I have no problem in denying that. The reason for this is threefold: 1) If I pointed fingers everywhere I would be accused of doing just that, simply spreading chaos and confusion; 2) This is not scum vs inno, this is a faction game. Therefore another danger of calling everyone I see suspicious is that I point fingers at some of my own teammates. I do not know who is on my team with any certainty, and therefore I purposefully keep my suspect pool down to those few I’m reasonably certain aren’t in the same faction as me; 3) I don’t want people to vote a different way to me, because then there is a greater chance that someone in my faction will bite the dust, so yes, I do attempt to steer people around to my way of thinking.
However, no player here is a slave. I can only attempt to persuade, I can’t command. People don’t have to follow, they have free will. They can find their own players that they want to bump off, and attempt to do the same as me.
Now for the biggie: Myself, Osseric, Sorrit and Ruse are in a big fat conspiracy which aims to make everyone vote the way we want them to. Three flaws to this:
1) Blatant contradictions in Emurlahn’s own case. Apparently, Osseric and I work together. And yet, we have voted for different people before, and argued for different cases.
2) Lack of context to the quoted posts. For example, Emurlahn used one of my posts where I say there are few other options around aside from lynching Tiam to argue that I wanted to keep others from looking at other options, such as, presumably, myself, Osseric, etc. But then look at my very next post, which Emurlahn DID NOT quote, wherein I outline what conclusions may be drawn from the previous successful and attempted lynch trains. Thus, I was looking at other people anyway, AND putting that information out there for others.
3) Whilst Emurlahn’s case is impressive in its length, this is where its biggest flaw lies also – that is, it shows the ‘conspiracy’ stretching from the very beginning of the game. Thus, myself, Osseric, Sorrit, Ruse, and whoever else had to all know we were on the same team from the very beginning, which, I dare to suggest, is not possible. Even two people knowing each other straight away is a stretch, but I grant that it is possible, and somewhere in this web there really might be a partnership, but it certainly doesn’t involve me. What is more, if we’re all in this together, then Emurlahn has basically uncovered an entire faction – all of whom know each other! Congratulations
So why is there so much agreement then? Well, there isn’t, in point of fact. What Emurlahn has pointed out is the most active players thus far INTERACTING with each other. We’re all being polite and agreeable precisely because (at leats in my case) we DON’T know each other – thus, we can’t be sure if that person is in our faction or not, until they make some kind of slip up. This is the kind of play that Tiamatha did not indulge in, being rude and self-important, and is part of the reason why people were so willing to lynch them.
And now, let me point out something. Something which, depending on your perspective, either dashes much of Emur’s case, or puts Emur in his very own conspiracy. Look at these posts after Emur made his case:
All these people agreeing with you Emur! It's a conspiracy!
So for what it’s worth, I’m glad Emurlahn has managed to shine the spotlight on others.
Ok, first to deal with some accusations thrown out by the case. 1) I am debating who could/should be lynched next before the current lynch has gone through; 2) I am attempting to make people look at and vote for the people I highlight.
To both those accusations:
Yes, I am guilty. I am doing that. People ask where to go after a lynch is done, and I respond, saying, ‘well, such and such a person has caught my eye, has raised suspicion before, etc.’. Do I want these people to be lynched? Well, yes, otherwise why would I bring them up as possible targets? And I’m sorry, but I fail to see what’s wrong with that. If people have been paying as much attention as they should have been, they should have realised by now that I am not in the Xia faction. As such, wanting to go for Tiamatha was perfectly reasonable to me, as they were no teammate of mine. And wanting to go for Emurlahn subsequently is also perfectly reasonable to me, as I believe Emur to also be in the Xia faction.
Accusation no.3: I am purposefully not looking outside the small circle of suspects, and am attempting to make others be just as blinkered.
Again, I am guilty and I have no problem in denying that. The reason for this is threefold: 1) If I pointed fingers everywhere I would be accused of doing just that, simply spreading chaos and confusion; 2) This is not scum vs inno, this is a faction game. Therefore another danger of calling everyone I see suspicious is that I point fingers at some of my own teammates. I do not know who is on my team with any certainty, and therefore I purposefully keep my suspect pool down to those few I’m reasonably certain aren’t in the same faction as me; 3) I don’t want people to vote a different way to me, because then there is a greater chance that someone in my faction will bite the dust, so yes, I do attempt to steer people around to my way of thinking.
However, no player here is a slave. I can only attempt to persuade, I can’t command. People don’t have to follow, they have free will. They can find their own players that they want to bump off, and attempt to do the same as me.
Now for the biggie: Myself, Osseric, Sorrit and Ruse are in a big fat conspiracy which aims to make everyone vote the way we want them to. Three flaws to this:
1) Blatant contradictions in Emurlahn’s own case. Apparently, Osseric and I work together. And yet, we have voted for different people before, and argued for different cases.
2) Lack of context to the quoted posts. For example, Emurlahn used one of my posts where I say there are few other options around aside from lynching Tiam to argue that I wanted to keep others from looking at other options, such as, presumably, myself, Osseric, etc. But then look at my very next post, which Emurlahn DID NOT quote, wherein I outline what conclusions may be drawn from the previous successful and attempted lynch trains. Thus, I was looking at other people anyway, AND putting that information out there for others.
3) Whilst Emurlahn’s case is impressive in its length, this is where its biggest flaw lies also – that is, it shows the ‘conspiracy’ stretching from the very beginning of the game. Thus, myself, Osseric, Sorrit, Ruse, and whoever else had to all know we were on the same team from the very beginning, which, I dare to suggest, is not possible. Even two people knowing each other straight away is a stretch, but I grant that it is possible, and somewhere in this web there really might be a partnership, but it certainly doesn’t involve me. What is more, if we’re all in this together, then Emurlahn has basically uncovered an entire faction – all of whom know each other! Congratulations
So why is there so much agreement then? Well, there isn’t, in point of fact. What Emurlahn has pointed out is the most active players thus far INTERACTING with each other. We’re all being polite and agreeable precisely because (at leats in my case) we DON’T know each other – thus, we can’t be sure if that person is in our faction or not, until they make some kind of slip up. This is the kind of play that Tiamatha did not indulge in, being rude and self-important, and is part of the reason why people were so willing to lynch them.
And now, let me point out something. Something which, depending on your perspective, either dashes much of Emur’s case, or puts Emur in his very own conspiracy. Look at these posts after Emur made his case:
Ruse, on 06 October 2011 - 01:56 AM, said:
That was really well done, despite you implicating me as a symp. The only thing I would say though is even if this were all true it still doesnt undermine the actual existing reasons people had for voting Serc or Tiam. Given Serc`s reveal and all of the other speculation the situation evolved quite a bit beyond the origins you point out. Granted there have been some lazy votes, but there hasnt been much else going on in terms of information or cases.
Silanah, on 06 October 2011 - 01:59 AM, said:
Frankly, those posts are really fucking good. I feel the connections you made were really well done. I feel that I've been following along to this plan that you show has been layed out. Despite this, the decisions on who I voted for were made by me. I think the people we voted have made sense.
One scary thing that you pointed out is that we haven't considered anyone outside what osseric and all have been suggesting.
Wow... I'm brain hurt.
One scary thing that you pointed out is that we haven't considered anyone outside what osseric and all have been suggesting.
Wow... I'm brain hurt.
Omtose, on 06 October 2011 - 02:28 AM, said:
Well that was some of the most interesting reading that I have done in a long time. After reading through all of that I am struck by 2 things the only reason that Tiam is at l-1 is that everyone kept following everyone else and saying that he was a distraction. Whereas I read him and thought that he tried everthing but throwing the kitchen sink at the thread to try to derail his lynch train. It is a shame that he is going to get lynched as he is fun to read. A lot better then the rest of "I agree it's a problem, Yes your right he is creating confusion" posts that people were dropping. The second thing is that Emu has started to make cases the old fashioned way and it is beautiful to behold. A pure joy reading that. Thank you.
Now I am a little irritated that so many of you were quick to buy into the thought that the phoenix represented the usurper but barely a peep when I said what the phoenix represented in ancient China. Drek puts clues in the scenes she has done so for each game. Drek also knows more about China history and legends then anyone else. So for her to put the phoenix into the mix in relation to the usurper is a obvious clue that a female character who hunts for the usurper has been activated. That the phoenix is the symbol of the south which is where the Yan are based out of. Makes it fairly obvious that a female character in the south has been activated who can hunt down the usurper.
I find certain styles of play irritating and right now Osserics is very grating to me. Very pushy in your face. Reading him is like tearing my eyes out with a jagged glass spoon.
Now I am a little irritated that so many of you were quick to buy into the thought that the phoenix represented the usurper but barely a peep when I said what the phoenix represented in ancient China. Drek puts clues in the scenes she has done so for each game. Drek also knows more about China history and legends then anyone else. So for her to put the phoenix into the mix in relation to the usurper is a obvious clue that a female character who hunts for the usurper has been activated. That the phoenix is the symbol of the south which is where the Yan are based out of. Makes it fairly obvious that a female character in the south has been activated who can hunt down the usurper.
I find certain styles of play irritating and right now Osserics is very grating to me. Very pushy in your face. Reading him is like tearing my eyes out with a jagged glass spoon.
Okaros, on 06 October 2011 - 05:02 AM, said:
So much to catch up on. You know Emur, when I said please post follow ups I was just kidding. Great posts though, and I think the connection between Osserc and Meanas seems legit. I'll make some comments.
Barghast, on 06 October 2011 - 09:24 AM, said:
I like how Emurlahn is stepping up his efforts, and his analysis is welcome and pointing out either some deliberate chain of command/ concerted effort, or a weird coincidence of great (?) minds thinking alike, but whichever it is, it wasn't highlighted before.
Fake votes in a game like this are bound to be found out. The best bet for a player with a non-counting vote to avoid being ferreted out as having a non-vote is not voting at all - the suspect pool becomes ridiculously small after even just 2 trains, with the non-voter on just one of them. Since there were no votes on anyone but Tiamatha (and emurlahn's vote on someone else) there was no jumping, either, so the explanation of D'rek being a strict boss and not counting vote switches without a remove vote attached is non-existent as well.
Out for a bit again, as work is ridiculously demanding.
Fake votes in a game like this are bound to be found out. The best bet for a player with a non-counting vote to avoid being ferreted out as having a non-vote is not voting at all - the suspect pool becomes ridiculously small after even just 2 trains, with the non-voter on just one of them. Since there were no votes on anyone but Tiamatha (and emurlahn's vote on someone else) there was no jumping, either, so the explanation of D'rek being a strict boss and not counting vote switches without a remove vote attached is non-existent as well.
Out for a bit again, as work is ridiculously demanding.
Sheltatha Lore, on 06 October 2011 - 12:44 PM, said:
I've got just a minute; a couple comments:
Serc's reveal is confirmed re: Tiam, ok
Emurlahn throws wall of text, nice case making - I have to agree to some extent that there is some teamwork there, but I'm not sure about giving credit/blame for a conspiracy to run the game - that would tend to get people lynched/killed, whatever because somebody on here would sniff that out and retaliate IMO. A bold play if true, coincidence if not.
The extra vote thing - could be role based, but I think the OP says that locations can have an effect on things, so maybe somebody moved into a tile that gave them that ability or cost them a vote, etc. It's the 1st time this happened. Also, is it just me or have the voting orders on the trains been altered? For example, I'm listed 3rd by P-S but I voted about 11th. I think that is more of the same mechanics that are affecting votes, the train is being obscured somehow. Anybody else see that?
Alright, I'm going to go back an read again, there was too much to digest.
Serc's reveal is confirmed re: Tiam, ok
Emurlahn throws wall of text, nice case making - I have to agree to some extent that there is some teamwork there, but I'm not sure about giving credit/blame for a conspiracy to run the game - that would tend to get people lynched/killed, whatever because somebody on here would sniff that out and retaliate IMO. A bold play if true, coincidence if not.
The extra vote thing - could be role based, but I think the OP says that locations can have an effect on things, so maybe somebody moved into a tile that gave them that ability or cost them a vote, etc. It's the 1st time this happened. Also, is it just me or have the voting orders on the trains been altered? For example, I'm listed 3rd by P-S but I voted about 11th. I think that is more of the same mechanics that are affecting votes, the train is being obscured somehow. Anybody else see that?
Alright, I'm going to go back an read again, there was too much to digest.
All these people agreeing with you Emur! It's a conspiracy!
#828
Meanas
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Posted 06 October 2011 - 01:48 PM
I'd like to reiterate that my post above was a defence of myself, not anyone else who was implicated. For all I know, Emur really could have uncovered teamwork between some of the others, and I intend to now look at it closer myself. I also have a thought of Hood's Path, which I will describe in my next post, after I find the correct quote.
#829
Silanah
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Posted 06 October 2011 - 01:53 PM
Path-Shaper, on 06 October 2011 - 12:44 PM, said:
It is a year of chaos for the middle kingdoms. Armies trample farms as they march back and forth across the land. Enemies arrive where they are least expected, but disappear before one can swing a sword at them. Heroes are everywhere, but so is the plague. It is a time when those in power must make hard decisions.
In Xia, Gongsun Kang appears outside the walls of Luo Yang to denounce the Emperor and flees before the capital army can respond. Forces gather to chase down the Gongsuns but the Emperor also sends out a different sort of solution. In the west, Zhang Xiu is faced with the enormous Yan fleet in front and Ma Chao's legions of cavalry advancing from behind. Caught between the two, he must choose which border to preserve and which to let fall. The Yan armies, expecting an overwhelming victory on their borders and to rush into the enemy kingdoms are stalled by the enemy fortresses and are forced to settle in for what could be a very long siege.
In a tower in the remote city of Shang Jun, the deposed Emperor Xian watches distant fires rage as he reads news from the realm, brought to him by a few loyal informants. "Well fuck, glad I'm not you guys." he says, before heading back inside to "meditate" with the former Empress.
Oh, and also Zhuge Jin dies.
Rashan (Gust Hubb) is dead. He was Zhuge Jin, Chief Minister who Promotes the People, a Military Officer of the Lu Dynasty.
In Xia, Gongsun Kang appears outside the walls of Luo Yang to denounce the Emperor and flees before the capital army can respond. Forces gather to chase down the Gongsuns but the Emperor also sends out a different sort of solution. In the west, Zhang Xiu is faced with the enormous Yan fleet in front and Ma Chao's legions of cavalry advancing from behind. Caught between the two, he must choose which border to preserve and which to let fall. The Yan armies, expecting an overwhelming victory on their borders and to rush into the enemy kingdoms are stalled by the enemy fortresses and are forced to settle in for what could be a very long siege.
In a tower in the remote city of Shang Jun, the deposed Emperor Xian watches distant fires rage as he reads news from the realm, brought to him by a few loyal informants. "Well fuck, glad I'm not you guys." he says, before heading back inside to "meditate" with the former Empress.
Oh, and also Zhuge Jin dies.
Rashan (Gust Hubb) is dead. He was Zhuge Jin, Chief Minister who Promotes the People, a Military Officer of the Lu Dynasty.
I wonder if Rashan was killed by the barbarians or by one of the rival middle kingdoms. Maybe the barbarians are breaking through? Or am I missing something.
#830
Meanas
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Posted 06 October 2011 - 01:57 PM
Path-Shaper, on 06 October 2011 - 12:44 PM, said:
[i]In Xia, Gongsun Kang appears outside the walls of Luo Yang to denounce the Emperor and flees before the capital army can respond. Forces gather to chase down the Gongsuns but the Emperor also sends out a different sort of solution.
This part says to me that the Warlord on Xia borders moved down to Luo Yang, and then moved back up again to their starting place. The more interesting bit is the 'different sort of solution'. What has been sent by Xia into the Warlord's territory do we think?
Path-Shaper, on 06 October 2011 - 12:44 PM, said:
In the west, Zhang Xiu is faced with the enormous Yan fleet in front and Ma Chao's legions of cavalry advancing from behind. Caught between the two, he must choose which border to preserve and which to let fall. The Yan armies, expecting an overwhelming victory on their borders and to rush into the enemy kingdoms are stalled by the enemy fortresses and are forced to settle in for what could be a very long siege.
And this bit sounds to me like members of the Yan faction tried to move into Ly territory but found they couldn't, for whatever reasons.
#831
Silanah
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Posted 06 October 2011 - 01:59 PM
Meanas, on 06 October 2011 - 01:57 PM, said:
Path-Shaper, on 06 October 2011 - 12:44 PM, said:
[i]In Xia, Gongsun Kang appears outside the walls of Luo Yang to denounce the Emperor and flees before the capital army can respond. Forces gather to chase down the Gongsuns but the Emperor also sends out a different sort of solution.
This part says to me that the Warlord on Xia borders moved down to Luo Yang, and then moved back up again to their starting place. The more interesting bit is the 'different sort of solution'. What has been sent by Xia into the Warlord's territory do we think?
Path-Shaper, on 06 October 2011 - 12:44 PM, said:
In the west, Zhang Xiu is faced with the enormous Yan fleet in front and Ma Chao's legions of cavalry advancing from behind. Caught between the two, he must choose which border to preserve and which to let fall. The Yan armies, expecting an overwhelming victory on their borders and to rush into the enemy kingdoms are stalled by the enemy fortresses and are forced to settle in for what could be a very long siege.
And this bit sounds to me like members of the Yan faction tried to move into Ly territory but found they couldn't, for whatever reasons.
The plague was mentioned. Do you think that was meant to be taken literally? Does the emperor have some kind of biological warfare?
#832
Silanah
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Posted 06 October 2011 - 02:00 PM
Osseric, on 06 October 2011 - 05:27 AM, said:
Okaros, on 06 October 2011 - 05:22 AM, said:
This seems like a blatant disregard for the case he has presented against you. We all had suspicions against Emur early game, so if he or she were to choose almost any other it would probably be someone who had struggled with the decision to vote for him early game. It is less convenient, and should be expected, that he/she found two that did confront him.
This post is a blatant disregard for the case he presented, it is a continuation of the case I make against him. I address his case in other posts.
If he thinks that leaders would play by attacking and confronting so that his peoples can follow (disregarding the fact that leaders don't know their flock themselves), then fine, what can I say, that's how I played. Like Gamelon said, you need to attack a bit if you want the seams to show.
This seems like a leader doing a bad job of defending himself, to me.
#833
Mockra
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Posted 06 October 2011 - 02:03 PM
Oh my lord, what's been happening here?! I thought I'd be back much sooner than this, but alas, it was not to be. I've had a quick skim through the events, but will now go back and do a deeper read-through.
#834
Silanah
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Posted 06 October 2011 - 02:09 PM
Osseric, on 30 September 2011 - 06:11 AM, said:
Well, I'm already voting for Gamelon, so...
Some thoughts:
We had discussions going on early about associations between Emurlahn and Gamelon, and between Gamelon and Serc. True or false, it's not obvious (only time will tell), but what I find interesting is that the reaction of each of them was to vote for the one they were accused of being linked to.
I find it interesting because of the purpose such a vote serves. What does it prove? In a faction game, if you are associated to someone, and that person dies, the other players will use the CF to "conclude" about your faction, which is the worse place to be. What's the problem of being "associated" with someone? I fail to see it, as long as the other player is alive and unknown.
Thus, to me, it would have made much more sense for them to try to attack someone else entirely. That they voted the person they were accused of being linked to serves only to "disprove" the association, and serves little other purpose. The fact that they had this reflex is interesting.
P.S. I don't want to undermine the "case" they had on each other when they voted, which is something else entirely; but I think it's a strange coincidence that they all ended up voting each other.
Some thoughts:
We had discussions going on early about associations between Emurlahn and Gamelon, and between Gamelon and Serc. True or false, it's not obvious (only time will tell), but what I find interesting is that the reaction of each of them was to vote for the one they were accused of being linked to.
I find it interesting because of the purpose such a vote serves. What does it prove? In a faction game, if you are associated to someone, and that person dies, the other players will use the CF to "conclude" about your faction, which is the worse place to be. What's the problem of being "associated" with someone? I fail to see it, as long as the other player is alive and unknown.
Thus, to me, it would have made much more sense for them to try to attack someone else entirely. That they voted the person they were accused of being linked to serves only to "disprove" the association, and serves little other purpose. The fact that they had this reflex is interesting.
P.S. I don't want to undermine the "case" they had on each other when they voted, which is something else entirely; but I think it's a strange coincidence that they all ended up voting each other.
Here Osseric talks about being associated.
So Emur has found an association between osseric, sorrit, and meanas? (Correct me if I'm wrong here, that was a long post).
So being associated is fine unless one of them is lynched...
#836
Meanas
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Posted 06 October 2011 - 02:13 PM
I'll admit straight away, this is almost absolutely nothing to go on. It's just a hunch, not a case or an accusation. A while ago, Hood's Path deliberated on how Serc could have managed to find Tiamatha if Tiam started out in the far north.
I was struck by the bit I bolded. HP was very certain by what the empty village referred to, that Tiamatha had left the northern border undefended. It made me think that HP is sure of this because he is a Warlord, who strode down into Xia territory only to find no one there.
As I said, just a hunch. Now that I've thrown out my suspicions, I will take a look at the other people which Emur highlighted.
Hood, on 05 October 2011 - 03:06 PM, said:
I personally think that Serc's reveal is correct. He is a member of Yan so he likely started out in
Yong An
Jiang Xia
Eight Fan
He Fei
Since he did a find on Tiamatha and it came back as Cen Pi a member of the Xia dynasty then he was most likely in He Fei when he did his find.
At first I had trouble believing the find because Cen Pi was tasked with fighting the GongSun along the northern border. How could Serc do a find on a player that is supposed to be two cities away?
When you take into the OP message about the barbarians able to waltz into an empty village then it makes sense. Cen Pi must have moved from Xin Du to Luo Yang thus moving into range of Serc's ablility to find him. It's blatantly obvious that Tiamatha is a member of Xia.
One of the easiest slam dunk cases that you can make
vote Tiamatha
Busy at work today so won't be on much today.
Yong An
Jiang Xia
Eight Fan
He Fei
Since he did a find on Tiamatha and it came back as Cen Pi a member of the Xia dynasty then he was most likely in He Fei when he did his find.
At first I had trouble believing the find because Cen Pi was tasked with fighting the GongSun along the northern border. How could Serc do a find on a player that is supposed to be two cities away?
When you take into the OP message about the barbarians able to waltz into an empty village then it makes sense. Cen Pi must have moved from Xin Du to Luo Yang thus moving into range of Serc's ablility to find him. It's blatantly obvious that Tiamatha is a member of Xia.
One of the easiest slam dunk cases that you can make
vote Tiamatha
Busy at work today so won't be on much today.
I was struck by the bit I bolded. HP was very certain by what the empty village referred to, that Tiamatha had left the northern border undefended. It made me think that HP is sure of this because he is a Warlord, who strode down into Xia territory only to find no one there.
As I said, just a hunch. Now that I've thrown out my suspicions, I will take a look at the other people which Emur highlighted.
#837
Silanah
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Posted 06 October 2011 - 02:13 PM
Osseric, on 01 October 2011 - 06:48 AM, said:
Tiamatha, on 30 September 2011 - 08:54 PM, said:
snip
Ok folks, bear with me, while I try to explain things.
Killing Emperors as EARLY as possible benefits the majority greatly (unless you belong in the same faction duhhh) because we might catch the Emperor under which Sima Yi (Usurper) operates and force him to become the new faction without allowing him the opportunity to recruit as heavy as possible, thus minimizing his damage potential.
snip
Ok folks, bear with me, while I try to explain things.
Killing Emperors as EARLY as possible benefits the majority greatly (unless you belong in the same faction duhhh) because we might catch the Emperor under which Sima Yi (Usurper) operates and force him to become the new faction without allowing him the opportunity to recruit as heavy as possible, thus minimizing his damage potential.
snip
Tiamantha is really putting some wall of text just to explain a few of her comments from day 1. I find her obsession with the Usurper interesting. She was brought into the light for being the one to mention it, and now spends a lot of energy "explaining" herself.
I won't go through her whole post, but just an example from the first sequence I left there: Killing Emperors as EARLY as possible does indeed seem to screw up the Usurper, but what's missing from her posts is why she is so obsessed about the danger of the Usurper.
At this point, any lynch benefits the majority, none of the factions are a majority obviously.
But, Tiamantha gets called by Omtose with "You know what they say about the first person who brings up a role, right?" and it opened a floodgate
On posts 257 and 314, Tiamantha sends us walls of text to explain to us that our whole day 1 strategy should have been to
1) Conclude that Gamelon was indeed a civil servant before the CF and not lynch him
2) Conclude who was his Emperor based on his signals
3) Attack the Emperor.
4) See who is reluctant to vote (in this case, we found the Usurper because it might be that this was the Usurper's Emperor)
5) See who would prefer to vote Emur instead (In this case, we found the Usurper because, actually, I didn't get this part in Tiam's post)
(Assuming we live in bizarro-mafia where this kind of thing can happen on day 1)
Now she even says we missed our chance, why? Why not stay silent and try her strategy again today, if she really believes it? Nothing has changed, except now we are certain that Gamelon was a civil servant.
It sounds like she doesn't want to catch the Usurper, as much as she wants tell us how much she wants to catch the Usurper.
Reading the roles which are described, we have the Chinese factions, warlords and champions who can night kill, and some mysterious roles which might be quite dangerous/powerful. Then we have the Usurper, apparently alone and, from the phrasing, not able to recruit from the start, and who will become a faction when her emperor dies. I'm not trying to downplay the danger of the Usurper, there is a lot of unknown about the details of his role. But Tiam went from someone who was called for bringing up the role first to someone who's trying way to hard to explain to us why she brought up the role first.
I think today I will vote Serc, he's the best candidate for Gamelon's Emperor in my opinion. But I would consider voting Tiam also because something is going on in her role PM.
Here, Osseric is talking down the importance of finding the usurper asap. Is he doing this because he is the Usurper? Or it could be that he is an emperor that doesn't want lynched.
#838
Silanah
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Posted 06 October 2011 - 02:19 PM
Osseric, on 04 October 2011 - 06:44 AM, said:
Okaros, on 04 October 2011 - 05:46 AM, said:
Osseric, on 04 October 2011 - 05:35 AM, said:
I have to think about that reveal. I'm not sure what would be the point of a fake reveal, specially considering that Tiam doesn't seem to contradict him (I might be wrong, I read the last pages quick, I'll go back to read them again)
But just one thing: when Serc put out his reveal to prove he was not an Emperor, I don't think he actually did. Because of the find, people assume now he's the Prime Minister of Lu, but then how would Gamelon know to symp him on page 1? But look at the Prime Minister role from the OP:
Prime Minister
Each middle kingdom also has a Prime Minister. Prime Ministers can use the standard heal, guard and find night actions, as well as special abilities that can assist other players in their dynasty and provide their Emperor with extra information.
edit: removed some strange html tag from copy/pasting
But just one thing: when Serc put out his reveal to prove he was not an Emperor, I don't think he actually did. Because of the find, people assume now he's the Prime Minister of Lu, but then how would Gamelon know to symp him on page 1? But look at the Prime Minister role from the OP:
Prime Minister
Each middle kingdom also has a Prime Minister. Prime Ministers can use the standard heal, guard and find night actions, as well as special abilities that can assist other players in their dynasty and provide their Emperor with extra information.
edit: removed some strange html tag from copy/pasting
Not quite sure what you're saying here. Are you suggesting that the "extra information" bit implies that an emperor would have a find ability as well? Or that a PM can communicate off thread with an emperor?
I don't know the mechanics, but if the PM can find, and provide information to the Emperor, there's a chance that the Emperor could be kept aware of finds not made by himself.
i.e. it doesn't add to the case that Serc might be an Emperor, but it doesn't invalidate it completely either.
Lots of talk from an Emperor perspective.
#839
Meanas
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Posted 06 October 2011 - 02:24 PM
I have to say that Silanah's concentrated approach on one of the players mentioned, Osseric, is convincing me a lot more than Emur's scattergun approach. To give credit to Emur, I had not considered Osseric before he mentioned him, and now that he's in the spotlight, he actually really stands out.
#840
Ruse
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Posted 06 October 2011 - 02:26 PM
Meanas, on 06 October 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:
So why is there so much agreement then? Well, there isn’t, in point of fact. What Emurlahn has pointed out is the most active players thus far INTERACTING with each other. We’re all being polite and agreeable precisely because (at leats in my case) we DON’T know each other – thus, we can’t be sure if that person is in our faction or not, until they make some kind of slip up. This is the kind of play that Tiamatha did not indulge in, being rude and self-important, and is part of the reason why people were so willing to lynch them.
I agree with you. However if I were to read between the lines (and I do), you seem to be trying hard to imply that you absolutely didn't know anyone...
