[Osseric]

Tiamatha, on 30 September 2011 - 08:54 PM, said:

snip

Ok folks, bear with me, while I try to explain things.

Killing Emperors as EARLY as possible benefits the majority greatly (unless you belong in the same faction duhhh) because we might catch the Emperor under which Sima Yi (Usurper) operates and force him to become the new faction without allowing him the opportunity to recruit as heavy as possible, thus minimizing his damage potential.


snip

Tiamantha is really putting some wall of text just to explain a few of her comments from day 1. I find her obsession with the Usurper interesting. She was brought into the light for being the one to mention it, and now spends a lot of energy "explaining" herself.

I won't go through her whole post, but just an example from the first sequence I left there: Killing Emperors as EARLY as possible does indeed seem to screw up the Usurper, but what's missing from her posts is why she is so obsessed about the danger of the Usurper.

At this point, any lynch benefits the majority, none of the factions are a majority obviously.

But, Tiamantha gets called by Omtose with "You know what they say about the first person who brings up a role, right?" and it opened a floodgate

On posts 257 and 314, Tiamantha sends us walls of text to explain to us that our whole day 1 strategy should have been to
1) Conclude that Gamelon was indeed a civil servant before the CF and not lynch him
2) Conclude who was his Emperor based on his signals
3) Attack the Emperor.
4) See who is reluctant to vote (in this case, we found the Usurper because it might be that this was the Usurper's Emperor)
5) See who would prefer to vote Emur instead (In this case, we found the Usurper because, actually, I didn't get this part in Tiam's post)

(Assuming we live in bizarro-mafia where this kind of thing can happen on day 1)

Now she even says we missed our chance, why? Why not stay silent and try her strategy again today, if she really believes it? Nothing has changed, except now we are certain that Gamelon was a civil servant.

It sounds like she doesn't want to catch the Usurper, as much as she wants tell us how much she wants to catch the Usurper.

Reading the roles which are described, we have the Chinese factions, warlords and champions who can night kill, and some mysterious roles which might be quite dangerous/powerful. Then we have the Usurper, apparently alone and, from the phrasing, not able to recruit from the start, and who will become a faction when her emperor dies. I'm not trying to downplay the danger of the Usurper, there is a lot of unknown about the details of his role. But Tiam went from someone who was called for bringing up the role first to someone who's trying way to hard to explain to us why she brought up the role first.

I think today I will vote Serc, he's the best candidate for Gamelon's Emperor in my opinion. But I would consider voting Tiam also because something is going on in her role PM.

[Emurlahn]

none of the factions have majority, but yan likely has a serious plurality.

[Karosis]

Allright...tough week for me...but its over nw and i can start playing.

I essentially only started today...i voted yesterday because when i checked in it looked like a voted was needed and it was pretty close to day end and didnt want to chance it as a ynch is better than no lynch,

I will admit to knowing next to nothing about the situation barring a few recaps from players....but thats neither here nor there.

Serc, on 30 September 2011 - 07:16 PM, said:

Barghast, on 30 September 2011 - 07:46 AM, said:

A bit meh, that ninja-edit just after the hammer. Seeing how postage time is only 2 minutes after, it might be a legitimite cross-post . It is up to P-S to delete what could have been a cross-post, not to the player. Oh well.

Reading the last few minutes before the lynch, I'm not sure what to think of Serc at this point.

Karosis comes on at .58 and asks if he should hammer. Then, he wait five minutes and decides to hammer at .03, with what he says are 15 minutes on the clock. One minute later, at .04 Serc posts his vote and comments he "almost missed it".

If there were 15 minutes on the clock... that's not almost, that's a quarter of an hour still to go. Also, Gamelon was (recently) online at that time (his last post at that point was .58 as well, just like Karosis'), so it makes no sense whatsoever for Serc to hammer Gamelon at that time if he wants to wait for a last minute confession, even if Game asks for a hammer (as he did). In which case, telling Karosis he was around and going to be around for a bit longer would have been more prudent.

Now, I guess this is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for Serc, it might be a legitimate cross-post with Karosis (my condoleances on your loss, by the way) but given the history and potential distancing between Serc and Game, it opens quite the can of worms with the way it played out.

This is also wrong...by my count the day was going to end 10 minutes past the hour; I posted my vote at 4 minutes past the hour. There were 6 minutes left, not 15. Gamelon even came and posted before I voted. He had the opportunity to say something but didn't for some reason, then later posted again but edited it out.

I wanted to wait and see if Game had something to say; he showed up but said nothing. Check. 6 minutes left in the day; time to vote. Check. Hammering made total sense at that point. I am very wary of people who act like they spent time checking their facts but in reality get the details all wrong.

i can confirm that the time was pretty close and could very well have been something like 6 minutes left.

I guesstimated the time left and thumb sucked roughtly 15 minutes as i was in a rush because i was already running late for the funeral. So 15 minutes is not the exact time left at all...i was merely iterating that there was very little time left and gamelon looked like he was done talking.

evidently he was not

but i wouldnt look too much into serc's late vote

[Karosis]

Serc, on 30 September 2011 - 07:25 PM, said:

Also, to those of you who think Game was signaling me because I'm his Emperor (hypothetically speaking of course...) - why would he vote me like he did? Yes, his case was weak, but at that point no one even had 25% of the votes needed for a lynch; the possibility of the lynch swinging to a new target was still very real. With people calling me out for being aggressive already, why would Gamelon take the risk of starting a lynch train on his Emperor? He would be totally unable to stop it if others latched on, too; any attempt to swing it away would have made people even more suspicious. What would the signal even accomplish? I wasn't pushing for his lynch at all anyway, so if there was some signal to be interpreted, it's not like it would have made any difference; it wouldn't help him avoid being lynched and if anything it would draw attention to his Emperor in a negative way. It was definitely a desperate move, voting for me when I was pushing for Emur's lynch at the time, but signaling? Come on.

well sometimes a player can see he is going to get lynched and no matter what he does will change that.

this is when you do damage control.


now whether he felt like this or not is up for debate...but its far from silly play to do so if you are stuck in a specific situation.

[Karosis]

ok...so my overall impression is that day one ROCKED!...and i missed it.
but going over it was interesting.

You guys really managed to draw out allot of info and i feel that the Serc/Game connection is an option worth exploring further today.

Im also feeling a bit funny about tiams obsession....


Tell me, does anyone else think that the emperor of the usurper that is supposed to take his place perhaps has anything particular to gain if he takes out the usurper?

something tells me that if there was anyone had to anything to gain. And if there was anyone who would be obsessed with finding the "usurper" it would have to be the very person that the usurper was trying to...erm...usurp, correct?

With all of tiamathas bravado about taking out emperors, would it no be the best thing to say if you are a emperor youreslf...just saying...no one would expect a Emperor to go on a Emperor head hunt would they?
He definitely is portraying a VERY heavy anti emperor sentiment, maybe a bit too heavy.


meh

[Karosis]

people weren't joking when they said they wouldnt be around this wknd

[Okaros]

Checking in briefly before heading out.

Karosis, on 01 October 2011 - 11:01 AM, said:

ok...so my overall impression is that day one ROCKED!...and i missed it.
but going over it was interesting.

You guys really managed to draw out allot of info and i feel that the Serc/Game connection is an option worth exploring further today.

Im also feeling a bit funny about tiams obsession....


Tell me, does anyone else think that the emperor of the usurper that is supposed to take his place perhaps has anything particular to gain if he takes out the usurper?

something tells me that if there was anyone had to anything to gain. And if there was anyone who would be obsessed with finding the "usurper" it would have to be the very person that the usurper was trying to...erm...usurp, correct?

With all of tiamathas bravado about taking out emperors, would it no be the best thing to say if you are a emperor youreslf...just saying...no one would expect a Emperor to go on a Emperor head hunt would they?
He definitely is portraying a VERY heavy anti emperor sentiment, maybe a bit too heavy.


meh

From what I understand here Karosis, are you saying that Tiamatha is concerned about the usurper because you suspect Tiam of being an emperor? Not really sure where you are going with that "taking out emperors...best thing to say if you are a emperor" business. As for an anti-emperor sentiment, well we should all be against emperors that are not our own.


I do not have time delve into this too much today, I'll try and find some time later tonight.

[Karosis]

Okaros, on 01 October 2011 - 04:48 PM, said:

From what I understand here Karosis, are you saying that Tiamatha is concerned about the usurper because you suspect Tiam of being an emperor? Not really sure where you are going with that "taking out emperors...best thing to say if you are a emperor" business. As for an anti-emperor sentiment, well we should all be against emperors that are not our own.


I do not have time delve into this too much today, I'll try and find some time later tonight.

well, i was just thinking that theoretically the usurper would be more of a threat to the person he is supposed to usurp....no?
And in turn that perhaps the person he is supposed to usurp might have some sort of incentive for finding his very own usurper and getting rid of him.

it just makes sense to me. Usurper needs to recruit people and then eventually take out his emperor.
The emperor should in turn be looking for the guy that is trying to take his empire.
Im just thinking that Tiam's obsession might be because of something like this.

And for your question about the "emperors business", what i was trying to say was that a very good place for an emperor to hide is as someone who seems very dedicated to take out ALL emperors. portraying heavily that he himself is not an emperor. And as you say..an emperor will want to get rid of his direct competition anyway. I am just talking about the perception of himself he is trying to portray. ie An "emperor hunter".


just a theory... and just pointing out that simply because Tiam has this massive theory about emperors and hunting them "ALL" it doesnt all of the sudden make him have any less of a chance of being an emperor himself.

Looks to me like he just might be laying it on a bit too thick.

that was a mouthfull

[Mockra]

Right, let's get this thread going again!

Erm.....hmmm.

Well, my opinion is that Serc seems the likeliest target once voting resumes. The kind of argument that is being fielded against him - signalled and then distanced from by another player - is little he can do to defend himself against, as the actions weren't his that landed him in this. As I see it, all Serc can do is find another, even more viable, lynch candidate.

As for Tiamatha....I'm less convinced of that option right now, as Tiam has now been accused of being a Warlord, an Emperor, and the Usurper, all by basically the same argument But it's someone to bear in mind anyway.

[Mockra]

I have noticed though that Tiamatha is trying the handy "I'll completely ignore all the accusations coming my way and go silent and hope they go away" tactic though

Edit: spelling

Edit 2: Added "Edit: spelling"

This post has been edited by Mockra: 01 October 2011 - 11:38 PM

[Tiamatha]

Mockra, on 01 October 2011 - 11:38 PM, said:

I have noticed though that Tiamatha is trying the handy "I'll completely ignore all the accusations coming my way and go silent and hope they go away" tactic though

Umm, Mockra?
Did you see my previous post? The exact previous, as a matter of fact?
Where I took the liberty of even quoting the questions and the people who asked them, so I could make it easier for you?

Look what people are coming up with, right after that.

Karosis, who is either ignorant or wants us to believe he is ignorant, tries to downplay the danger that the Usurper is, while naively stating that only the Emperor under which Sima Yi currently operates should be interested in actually getting the guy, and not the rest of the pool.
And Osseric, who blames me for... actually having a point? And he somehow now knows something is going on in my role PM...

Strawmanning much...


I can't please you all, and honestly, I don't even care or want to. I just want my team to win. I'm sure you, and pretty much the rest, want the same thing.
But you can't strawman me like that, when my previous post contradicts this, and there's guys coming up, right after it, saying "look, Tiam is trying too hard..."
I'm guilty of ... sounding logical? Or guilty for actually having a valid reason for doing what I did?
/shrug

Plus its a weekend freeze currently. I didn't know I had to be glued to my chair, refreshing the thread so I can answer faster, for your convenience

[Mockra]

As you yourself pointed out in that last post, there were several people after your huge post who made more comments regarding your possible allegiances - Ruse, Meanas, Osseric, Karosis - that was what I was referring to. And I'll have you know, I was one of probably three players who read your entire long-ass post

My last post did exactly what it was intended to - it made you pop up and defend yourself. And while you say that they're attacking you over nothing - strawmanning - you also resort to the tactic (unsurprisingly, granted) of being completely dismissive of their thoughts, i.e. Karosis is naive, Osseric is being idiotic. To me, Karosis didn't appear to be downplaying any danger, only musing that the Emperor under which the Usurper currently operates might have some sort of power to help combat the Usurper. That is, he's another who's speculating you could be an Emperor.

You say you just want your team to win. You also suggest taking out all the Emperors ASAP under the guise of curtailing the Usurper. Doesn't that strike you as making you sound mightily like one of the Warlords, the only other factions to benefit from such activity?

Quote

Plus its a weekend freeze currently. I didn't know I had to be glued to my chair, refreshing the thread so I can answer faster, for your convenience

Trotting out the old 'it's the weekend' excuse eh? (ok, I may be going too far). But yes, of course you should be doing exactly that

[Karosis]

Tiamatha, on 02 October 2011 - 02:12 AM, said:

Karosis, who is either ignorant or wants us to believe he is ignorant, tries to downplay the danger that the Usurper is, while naively stating that only the Emperor under which Sima Yi currently operates should be interested in actually getting the guy, and not the rest of the pool.
And Osseric, who blames me for... actually having a point? And he somehow now knows something is going on in my role PM...

Strawmanning much...

not once did i downplay the danger of the usurper...i simply was putting forward yet another line of thinking that has not been brought up before. "ignorant"....i dont know how you thumb sucked that conclusion about me.
Just because you say im ignorant without anything to substantiate your claim now all of the sudden makes it true?

You claim strawmanning from osseric as a defence in the same breath you use to strawmanning to try and downplay my musings.

i find your retorts rather flaccid and a little contrived to be honest...
Just about evens with serc on who i will be voting for right now.

[Atrahal]

Looking over the lynch, the thing that sent up warning signs to me was Serc's play during the last few hours. Pulling his vote with a few hrs left in day looking for a defense from Gamelon is normal Mafia playing. It's his attempted hammer vote right after Karosis hammered Gamelon I didn't like. I get the feeling he was waiting for day to time out, and then come in late with some excuse. Mind you THIS JUST A GUT FEELING after reading the thread. If he knew Gamelon was on his team, I can see it as trying to protect his team mate with out looking like it. I could see myself playing it that way.

[Silanah]

So exhausted. Serc seems like the obvious lynch target, as of right now, but the majority of players have not posted today, so we'll see how this goes in the morning.

[Path-Shaper]

TIMER IS UNFROZEN

It is Day 2. 32 hours remaining
24 Players still alive: Atrahal, Barghast, Emurlahn, Galain, Hood's Path, Karosis, Kaschan, Kessobahn, Korlat, Meanas, Mockra, Okaros, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Ruse, Serc, Sheltatha Lore, Silanah, Sorritt, Telas, Tennes, Thyrllan, Tiamatha

13 votes to lynch, 12 votes to go to night.


Players not voted: Atrahal, Barghast, Emurlahn, Galain, Hood's Path, Karosis, Kaschan, Kessobahn, Korlat, Meanas, Mockra, Okaros, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Ruse, Serc, Sheltatha Lore, Silanah, Sorritt, Telas, Tennes, Thyrllan, Tiamatha

[Silanah]

Woah, I timed that well. I'm going to sleep, be back on to some more discussion (hopefully).

[Okaros]

Just taking a look before going to bed. Nothing new seems to have developed over the weekend. Well except this tension between Karosis and Tiamatha.

No doubt the players will trickle in from here on out. I'll check back in the morning.

[Kessobahn]

I have caught up, and now, time for some thoughts!

1) Tiam is going all out. Hardcore wifom and planning on day1/night 1. This leads me to think, as it appears others are doing, that Tiam has a pretty powerful role. Which role that is, I don't know, but I would be it being a faction leading role. If you look at the bottom part of Tiams post 314, Tiam decides that anyone still investigating any kind of signaling regarding Gamelon is the Usurper. Oh but wait, right after that Tiam sets himself up to call anyone who puts any pressure on Emur the Usurper. What a pair of giant logical leaps regarding what Tiam 'thinks' the Usurper would do. I am unsure why you would put that out in the open since it is all WIFOM, and you are just making it blatant WIFOM, which is the worst kind of WIFOM known. I don't mind giant posts, but giant posts that have no real substance besides 'if I was the usurper, I would do this...' are pointless, unless you actually are the usurper and feel like taunting us as you go about your merry giant posting way. I wonder if most of the people in the game think 'Well, Tiam is making these giant posts, he must be contributing a lot' while not actually reading them. If you are doing this, please go read his posts. There is very little there.

2) Serc's almost missed voting shennanigans at the end of day 1 were worrying, especially since I think that Serc was making quite a bit of sense up until that point. Did Serc really miscalculate the time? Seems hard to do with a little simple math, on the other hand, that mistake is so blatantly stupid it seems hard to discount it.

3) Rashan - post 317. I think he was saying that with the pretty Chinese avatars, it might be nice to have a little Chinese in the thread if they are going to roleplay. You know, with Geishas and Commas and whatnot.

4) Emur. So far from what I can tell, Emur has been linked to, and signaling to, 3 different people. Gamelon, Tiam, and Atrahal. Is there any role anyone knows of that knows the factions of 3 different alts? I highly doubt that Emur is signaling everyone and their mothers just so that people can build random cases upon him. Seems somewhat counterproductive.

5) Osseric's post 321. Marvelous stuff. (Look I'm signaling!)

Now for some general ramblings: Serc does look like the general lynch target, but can anyone say that they are not intrigued by Tiam's play? Strawmanning, WIFOM, and hard-core cult hunting as of day one, while relating every single thing that every single person does to the cult? Cult Cult Cult on the brain. Now I don't disagree that the cult could be dangerous, but it is quite hard to cult-hunt in a faction game without seeing changes in gameplay which would not have happened yet, especially since it seems that the cult is unable to recruit right away, at least according to the setup post. Because of this I will start out the first vote of the day with a lovely
Vote Tiamatha
and see what shakes out.

[Emurlahn]

pedantic bear sez: geishas are still Japanese.

also, I kinda see where Tiam is coming from, what with the whole "cult can't recruit, is a one-man faction, so let's look for outsiders to lynch early on" thing (at least that what I got as the general gist of it--not too sure I agree with the Emperor hunt, b/c that tends to deliniate the teams early on)