[Gamelon]

Sheltatha Lore, on 29 September 2011 - 11:31 AM, said:

I also thought Emurlahn could be signaling, but am not convinced enough to vote at this time

I agree the second com,ma was sacasm/deflecting

It seems everyone is in a signal war.

Are you saying that there could be a time when you would vote for something like this? It's not going to get any more or less convincing with time. If the case isn't strong enough for you, then go and make one that is, don't just sit there and nod along.

[Osseric]

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 12:16 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 29 September 2011 - 11:31 AM, said:

I also thought Emurlahn could be signaling, but am not convinced enough to vote at this time

I agree the second com,ma was sacasm/deflecting

It seems everyone is in a signal war.

Are you saying that there could be a time when you would vote for something like this? It's not going to get any more or less convincing with time. If the case isn't strong enough for you, then go and make one that is, don't just sit there and nod along.

There's been a few of these - I can remember also Okaros.

Some give the impression they wish they didn't have to post at all.

[Mockra]

Here, finally. Managed to read up on all that's going on. Is anyone else even remotely aware of what the hell all the arrows and figures and diagrams in the OP are supposed to be about? Are they supposed to help?! Looking at them just makes me panic.

As for the 'cases', typical day 1 stuff, though I'm certain there has been some signalling by some down the line. It's just a question of if it's been caught, either by Gamelon on Emur, or by Meanas on Emur. In either case Emur seems to be the target

Also, I hate it when people defend themselves by saying 'that's so silly I'm not even going to defend myself' and then proceed to ignore it. Too many people get out of lynches like that because they don't respond, and I donts like it!

Now to find out what I look like......

[Mockra]

Apparently, I haven't completely got out of bed yet, as the sheet appears to be hanging off my head.....

Edit: spelling

This post has been edited by Mockra: 29 September 2011 - 12:27 PM

[Sheltatha Lore]

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 12:16 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 29 September 2011 - 11:31 AM, said:

I also thought Emurlahn could be signaling, but am not convinced enough to vote at this time

I agree the second com,ma was sacasm/deflecting

It seems everyone is in a signal war.

Are you saying that there could be a time when you would vote for something like this? It's not going to get any more or less convincing with time. If the case isn't strong enough for you, then go and make one that is, don't just sit there and nod along.

Yes, if it was end of day and I had nothing else to go on. Are you condemning your own case? It could be better or worse with time given arguments by others, further posts by Emurlahn, etc. Are you mad I agreed a little but not enough to jump on board??? *nods along with self*

[Silanah]

Gamelon and Mockra are nakey. Mockra has the best female hat

Going to be a hectic early day. Should be able to be more constructive later.

[Gamelon]

Osseric, on 29 September 2011 - 12:15 PM, said:

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 12:08 PM, said:

On the contrary, I don't think Emurlahn is a Civil Official, which is why I'm voting for him. I know my Emperor, and it's not him, so given the supposition that he is not an Official, that would make him one of:

- The PM/Emperor of the other major factions
- The rebels
- The Usurper
- The PM of my faction

Pretty good odds there, so worth a punt.

Put like this, sure, but on day 1, going from
"based on X, I think you are Y"
to
"Based on X, I think you are Y, but I think that's what you wanted me to think, so you are NOT Y, so I can vote for you safely"

Is stretching it. I think it's simpler to assume that you meant "I don't really care whether you are Y or not, if I get you lynched I don't care", so that makes you a probable rebel/usurper.

Using your way of stating things, I think you'll find what I've actually said was: "Based on X, I think you are Y, so I will vote for you". At no point do I look at Emurlahn's original signal and say that I think it makes him a Civil Official.

But if you wanted to reduce the action to its base motivations, I guess you could say that I saw an opportunity to get the game moving and took it. This way we can have illuminating discourse on Day 1 instead of half a day of RP and then a speed lynch, which personally disgusts me.

[Gamelon]

Sheltatha Lore, on 29 September 2011 - 12:28 PM, said:

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 12:16 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 29 September 2011 - 11:31 AM, said:

I also thought Emurlahn could be signaling, but am not convinced enough to vote at this time

I agree the second com,ma was sacasm/deflecting

It seems everyone is in a signal war.

Are you saying that there could be a time when you would vote for something like this? It's not going to get any more or less convincing with time. If the case isn't strong enough for you, then go and make one that is, don't just sit there and nod along.

Yes, if it was end of day and I had nothing else to go on. Are you condemning your own case? It could be better or worse with time given arguments by others, further posts by Emurlahn, etc. Are you mad I agreed a little but not enough to jump on board??? *nods along with self*

The signalling itself is not going to magically become more or less convincing. Other people could make arguments about it, sure, but why can't you? Your original post has a vibe of "Give me something else to decide whether I find it convincing" without any indication that you are willing to put in the time and effort to come up with something yourself, and that rubbed me the wrong way.

I'm not going to stand up and say that I think my case is an especially strong one. It's a single observation on Day 1, after all. Over the course of the day we should be able to put a stronger one together, whether it's on Emurlahn or someone else. If you're going into a game of Mafia thinking that this could be the only thing you have to go on, then you're doing it wrong.

[Korlat]

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 12:57 PM, said:

Osseric, on 29 September 2011 - 12:15 PM, said:

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 12:08 PM, said:

On the contrary, I don't think Emurlahn is a Civil Official, which is why I'm voting for him. I know my Emperor, and it's not him, so given the supposition that he is not an Official, that would make him one of:

- The PM/Emperor of the other major factions
- The rebels
- The Usurper
- The PM of my faction

Pretty good odds there, so worth a punt.

Put like this, sure, but on day 1, going from
"based on X, I think you are Y"
to
"Based on X, I think you are Y, but I think that's what you wanted me to think, so you are NOT Y, so I can vote for you safely"

Is stretching it. I think it's simpler to assume that you meant "I don't really care whether you are Y or not, if I get you lynched I don't care", so that makes you a probable rebel/usurper.

Using your way of stating things, I think you'll find what I've actually said was: "Based on X, I think you are Y, so I will vote for you". At no point do I look at Emurlahn's original signal and say that I think it makes him a Civil Official.

But if you wanted to reduce the action to its base motivations, I guess you could say that I saw an opportunity to get the game moving and took it. This way we can have illuminating discourse on Day 1 instead of half a day of RP and then a speed lynch, which personally disgusts me.

I though the wording on Emur's post was strange first time I read it so I can see why you picked up on it as a possible signal Gam, I also think that Emur's reply wasn't exactly helpful, stinted and avoiding the issue entirely, dismissing it as 'ridiculous' and not going beyond that.

I have to agree with Osseric here though, you seem on the whole to be unconcerned who you hit and you threw around a lot of early (although most were joking) votes and you have a lot of early posts with almost no content, a large number even for early game posts. Also your reply doesn't really answer Ossrics main concern, you think he isn't a civil official, fine but it still seems a little careless to vote when you suspect in your list of roles that he could be on your team.

[Ruse]

Mockra, on 29 September 2011 - 12:25 PM, said:

Also, I hate it when people defend themselves by saying 'that's so silly I'm not even going to defend myself' and then proceed to ignore it. Too many people get out of lynches like that because they don't respond, and I donts like it!

Um...because people tend to get strung up twice as fast when they freak out over small cases? You say it yourself, it gets them out of lynches - so why the hell wouldn't they do it?

The Emur/Gamelon thing for me - I prefer to take the simplest explanation. Emur unintentionally made an ill-advised roleplaying comment. In a game devoid of much content yet, anyone could have picked up on that - it just happened to be Gamelon. As for Gamelon, throwing down a vote like that early is a little inducing of whispy-kung-fu-master-eyebrow-arching, but as he says - the voting is going to happen and he's making a judgement call on the odds.

[Thyrllan]

Hmm.

1) I also think the second comma thing is a joke. And the name confusion could be an honest mistake, given that the discussion was all on the previous page. But whether it's to distract from what was originally signalling or not, I'm not sure.

2) I think it's silly to signal on the first day. But like someone said upthread, we do need cases, flimsy though they might be.

Aaaand my attempt to try figure stuff out is degenerating into WIFOM in my head. Sleep time, hopefully the morning bring enlightenment or something

[Ruse]

Yeah, I'm still confused about how Gamelon claims to be interpreting the "civil official" comment. Gamelon, you believe he IS one, or is posing as one, or signalling one? Spell it out for an old chinese man please.

[Osseric]

He claims that Emurlahn is a non-"civil official" which was so eager to pass for one that he blundered it completely.

[Osseric]

Ironically, I don't disagree with him.

I just find the subsequent coma-gate quite intriguing and worth poking at.

[Mockra]

Ruse, on 29 September 2011 - 01:21 PM, said:

Mockra, on 29 September 2011 - 12:25 PM, said:

Also, I hate it when people defend themselves by saying 'that's so silly I'm not even going to defend myself' and then proceed to ignore it. Too many people get out of lynches like that because they don't respond, and I donts like it!

Um...because people tend to get strung up twice as fast when they freak out over small cases? You say it yourself, it gets them out of lynches - so why the hell wouldn't they do it?

Sure, I know that. What I'm saying is that so often a case or pressure degenerates to nothing because other people fail to follow up on it simply because the person accused hasn't bothered acknowledging the case. Everyone waits for the accused to make the next move, often allowing an evil and/or roled player to slip out of a lynch simply because they do nothing. My annoyance stems from this reaction by other players - of course it's a valid tactic on the part of the accused - I'm just saying let's not let them get away with it!

So, in the interest of that, Emur, why is it so hard to just come out and say 'look, I made a mistake with the comma, it was just a typo?' rather than the whole rolling-eyes, let's do the same with Ruse act?

On the other hand, a person accusing another of signalling might in fact be trying to hide their own act of signalling - as someone upthread pointed out, Gamelon had quite a bit of joke-vote interaction with Serc.

[Tiamatha]

Reading up, posting soon....

Sleep is a poor substitute for caffeine...

[Ruse]

@Mockra So your comment was directed more at other people not applying pressure. That wasn't clear in your other post.

@Osseric I don't disbelieve you, I just would like Gamelon to concur that that is indeed what he means.

[Kaschan]

Still waking up and have just enough time to shower before running out the door, but so far I think the interaction between Game and Serc is more interesting than the Emu/Game stuff. Should have more time this evening to comment.

[Serc]

I'm around, reading up. I guess I should

Remove Vote

since we seemed to have moved past the joke vote phase. I personally thought that Gamelon's vote for Emur after Emur's comments seemed like distancing. I also find signals that seem too obvious (like the mention of "civil" whatever and the comma problem) extremely damning on day one when there is little to do except signal and put out feelers.

[Tiamatha]

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 12:38 AM, said:

*puts on game face*


Never too early to start dropping signals, huh? I can only assume that you're trying to be cute and are hiding something bigger, because no-one would really be that obvious if they were trying to drop something to their leader.


Remote Vote

Vote Emurlahn

If he's trying to drop something to his leader then wouldn't that mean he could possibly be a Civil Servant? Since, actually, according to the rules, Civil Servants are one of the roles who already know who their Emperor's are?
And if he's signaling, why not go for the one one signaled instead - if he's the possible emperor?

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 12:47 AM, said:

You can RP all you like, but I'm still going to call you on stuff like that. There's mountains of material you could use that doesn't come near the important stuff if all you wanted was some fun. So explain why you went and chose to talk about civil service exams with that choice of words if you weren't trying to hint at something.

So if he's hinting he's a Civil Servant, that makes him a ... Civil Servant? I guess? And what else?
I get the feeling that YOU yourself are a Civil Servant as well, and go with the "I'm the Civil Servant of my faction, so if he's a Civil Servant as well, then he's not on my faction, so my vote is safe" kinda flow of thoughts.

Osseric, on 29 September 2011 - 07:38 AM, said:

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 12:38 AM, said:

*puts on game face*

Emurlahn, on 29 September 2011 - 12:04 AM, said:

fair enough.

I shall now retire to commit to memory the sayings of the Great Teacher, so that I may ace the civil functionaries examinations and make my family proud.

call me when the geishas get here. i'll bring the rice wine.

Never too early to start dropping signals, huh? I can only assume that you're trying to be cute and are hiding something bigger, because no-one would really be that obvious if they were trying to drop something to their leader.


Remote Vote

Vote Emurlahn

Jumping on someone because you think they are trying to signal that they are civil official, not knowing whether he's in your team?

Either then you must be one of them scary factions, possibly the Usurper. Or you know he's not with you because you're some Emperor.


Boyah! this game is not so hard!

vote Gamelon

According to the rules (and I'm no rules lawyer I just read them after a heavy dose of caffeine -- AGAIN -- ) Emperors only know the role names and locations NOT the alt names.

Osseric, on 29 September 2011 - 10:00 AM, said:

The way I see the Gamelon thing, assuming that all that was picked up on thread was correct (including by Gamelon) is this:
- Emurlahn signals that he's a civil servant
- Gamelon calls him up on this, saying ironically that it's a signal which is so lame that it has to be fake, and votes
- Emurlahn signals Gamelon that he's in his team.

That would make Gamelon Emurlah's Emperor, I think that's the simplest scenario that fits the who-know-who as I understand it (unlike what I said in my original vote, I understood now that emperors don't know their whole own team)

There's also
-Emurlahn signals Ruse the exact same way

But I'm not sure what to make of that; either Emulahn is a lose cannon, or he's just trying to dilute his original signal

That seems logical, but Gamelon called Emur out based on his suspicions of him not actually being a Civil Servant which is something that is highly unlikely for people to know already in Day One?
Either that -- OR -- Gamelon, who himself confirmed that he already knows his emperor was alarmed because it seemed from Emur's posts that Emur was trying to signal Gamelons Emperor stating he's his Civil Servant... And since Gamelon IS the Civil Servant of that faction already, he's calling him out on controversy?
/shrug

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 12:08 PM, said:

Osseric, on 29 September 2011 - 07:38 AM, said:

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 12:38 AM, said:

*puts on game face*

Emurlahn, on 29 September 2011 - 12:04 AM, said:

fair enough.

I shall now retire to commit to memory the sayings of the Great Teacher, so that I may ace the civil functionaries examinations and make my family proud.

call me when the geishas get here. i'll bring the rice wine.

Never too early to start dropping signals, huh? I can only assume that you're trying to be cute and are hiding something bigger, because no-one would really be that obvious if they were trying to drop something to their leader.


Remote Vote

Vote Emurlahn

Jumping on someone because you think they are trying to signal that they are civil official, not knowing whether he's in your team?

Either then you must be one of them scary factions, possibly the Usurper. Or you know he's not with you because you're some Emperor.


Boyah! this game is not so hard!

vote Gamelon

On the contrary, I don't think Emurlahn is a Civil Official, which is why I'm voting for him. I know my Emperor, and it's not him, so given the supposition that he is not an Official, that would make him one of:

- The PM/Emperor of the other major factions
- The rebels
- The Usurper
- The PM of my faction

Pretty good odds there, so worth a punt.

I'd like to remind you that while we're given 7 overviews of roles, there are actually TEN role types in game, so your math might be a bit off.
For example, he could be the Military Officer of your faction (which happens to know the same Emperor as you do, since you semi-revealed Civil Official and was alarmed by it ) and slipped up his signal with the whole "civil code" instead of "martial code" per se?



Haven't found anything else, these are my thoughts on this current case and the subject.

And by the way, am I the only one who believes we should gun out to find the Usurper as he's Public Enemy No 1 with his recruiting ability?
After that, we can eat each others throats out like usual.