[Atrahal]

Omtose, on 05 October 2011 - 05:14 AM, said:

I almost forgot the phoenix bird is used to represent the south in Chinese geomagnetism.

Fucking great!!! now we have to fucking worry about magnets too!!!!

[Emurlahn]

and what about the colours?

[Tiamatha]

My body aches in places I never thought possible - plus I seem to have caught a cold as well.
Talk about goddamn luck >.<

I'm watching the discussion about the Phoenix and the interpretations of the CF and the Usurper --- It looks interesting enough.
I don't know a whole lot about Chinese culture, but some of the ideas presented here sound intriguing, to say the least.



And btw

Rashan, on 05 October 2011 - 12:58 AM, said:

Some quick comments here. First of all, the first paragraph describes Xia invading Chang An (the capital of the Han Dynasty, the empire previous to the three kingdom's storyline). This will be relevant when talking about Guan Lu's divination below. Second, the last part of the first paragraph describes Xia forces invading 3 of the northern most towns in the Yan kingdom.

So, it sounds like the scuffle between Tiam and Serc is described as such: Serc, based out of Jiang Xia in the Yan Dynasty was facing off with Xia troublemakers (Tiam). Since Tiam was found by Serc, who had the ability to "find" as a Civil Officer, I think we can safely bet that Tiam is currently on the He Fe tile adjacent to the Jiang Xia tile.

I'll take you up on that bet. What kind of odds do you want?

[Tiamatha]

Aaaaand noone's around...
Figures.

Pretty soon I'm gonna start talking with myself...

25 player game, what the fuck, I got my own timezone or something?

[Osseric]

Path-Shaper, on 04 October 2011 - 06:39 PM, said:

The Yan ruler, irate at being roused in the middle of the night, eyed the dishevelled and poorly dressed man accompanying his general disapprovingly. "And what, exactly, is this dirty peasant supposed to do for us, general?" "My lord, this is Guan Lu, the famed diviner of heaven's secrets and master of the stars. He sees events and people far away. He's already described for me the Lu emperor's castle defenses at Han Zhong!" Suspicious but intrigued, Huang Zhong asked Guan Lu to describe portentious events occuring in the world.

The mystic, who spoke only in riddles as mystics are wont to do, said to Zhong "A winged shadow descends upon a deserted village. Is it surprised? In the ancient capital, a man swallows and chokes on a phoenix. He dies and is born anew, but perhaps there are some who can tell the difference. The oxen charge against the wall again and again but they cannot find the door handle."

Huang Zhong, unimpressed, dismissed his general and returned to bed.

Night 2 is ended. No one died.

Back and catching up.

I don't want to sound bloodthirsty and all, but if no-one ever dies at night we're here until Halloween

[Osseric]

Emurlahn, on 04 October 2011 - 08:43 PM, said:

back from nap (good)

gotta go to class and then work (bad)



people still can't move on past Tiam, it seems. to thepoint of failing reading comprehension.

Looking at the post count, Emurlahn is one of the highest poster. And yet I don't remember him confronting any of the other players, and coming out with anything of value except the occasional nodding to what is said and facebook posts. Besides also the comma business which he handled miserably.

You keep saying Yan is the biggest faction. Where do you get that? What's your point? You want to hunt Yan, say it. Don't just drop some lame hints and complain that people don't get them. You want to hunt Yan? Serc was Yan. What did Serc do? What did Serc say? You want to do something and get your ideas through instead of cruising along? Cause so far Emurlahn is hiding in plain sight.

[Galain]

Tiamatha, on 05 October 2011 - 06:38 AM, said:

Aaaaand noone's around...
Figures.

Pretty soon I'm gonna start talking with myself...

25 player game, what the fuck, I got my own timezone or something?

I feel your pain.

I'm reluctant to speculate about the Usurper, because I'm apparently not as good as other people seem to be at reading P-S story clues. Or maybe I'm just too used to ignoring scenes, and people in this game are reading a lot into their symbolism. That might be the right choice, but I'll leave it to others to interpret the clues, if they exist.

Serc's possible reveal is, to my mind, still an open question. It simply wasn't answered by their death ... nor was your status. Some people are too willing to move on past the reveal, and discount it now that Gamelon and Serc have been dis-associated.

[Ruse]

Tiamatha, on 05 October 2011 - 06:22 AM, said:

Rashan, on 05 October 2011 - 12:58 AM, said:

Some quick comments here. First of all, the first paragraph describes Xia invading Chang An (the capital of the Han Dynasty, the empire previous to the three kingdom's storyline). This will be relevant when talking about Guan Lu's divination below. Second, the last part of the first paragraph describes Xia forces invading 3 of the northern most towns in the Yan kingdom.

So, it sounds like the scuffle between Tiam and Serc is described as such: Serc, based out of Jiang Xia in the Yan Dynasty was facing off with Xia troublemakers (Tiam). Since Tiam was found by Serc, who had the ability to "find" as a Civil Officer, I think we can safely bet that Tiam is currently on the He Fe tile adjacent to the Jiang Xia tile.

I'll take you up on that bet. What kind of odds do you want?

Well it makes sense. I fail to see why you would bother refuting this - either you're lying or you're not. Unless you're suggesting we lynch you to find out for sure.

I understand where Galain is coming from, I'm not a student of Chinese culture either and interpreting scenes has generally always hurt my game understanding rather than helped it, so I'll leave that to others.

[Sorrit]

Okay maybe my case was a bit warped, I did find it interesting that other people came on to dismiss the case and want to look elsewhere rather than at Tiam. I'll have a good read through today, Hood's Path popped on early and I didn't even realise he was playing, 5 posts out of over 600 from everyone, someone trying to lay low? He hasn't voted has he, or contributed much and he hasn't been mentioned by anyone which is good if you were the Usurper. Staying out of the limelight like he is I wonder what he is hiding

[Osseric]

I'm a bit surprised about the lack of pressure on Tiam so far today.

Comment 1: Was Serc telling the truth about her? Well, we know Serc was a CO with finding abilities, and he was Yan. He revealed Tiam as Xia. What did he have to win by lying?

Comment 2: We know the Usurper appeared last night, with a nice "pheonix reborn" scene that also tells us that he is in one of the three "empire" factions. We know Tiam is part of the empire factions. Her revealed name doesn't fit, but was the Usurper called Sima Yi from the start? (i.e. can she be found before activating?).

Now, if someone can explain to me why the Usurper should be in Yan, I'm all ears, because I'm not sure I get it. If that's the case, maybe we should indeed try to re-read and figure out candidates from Serc's posts, but if the Usurper is a civil official, Serc would not necesserally know of him. It would not be an easy task

Comment 3: Tiam's faction is revealed in a faction game. Sorry, but she's a dead woman walking. Everyone but his team should want her lynched, and his team can't afford to sound hesitant. Unless those looking for her location are trying to get her vigged, but meh.

vote Tiam

[Osseric]

So there really are clues in the scenes? Crap, I skimmed them until now, FFS I can't even figure out what names are people and what names are cities.

Path-Shaper, on 04 October 2011 - 06:39 PM, said:

The Yan ruler, irate at being roused in the middle of the night, eyed the dishevelled and poorly dressed man accompanying his general disapprovingly. "And what, exactly, is this dirty peasant supposed to do for us, general?" "My lord, this is Guan Lu, the famed diviner of heaven's secrets and master of the stars. He sees events and people far away. He's already described for me the Lu emperor's castle defenses at Han Zhong!" Suspicious but intrigued, Huang Zhong asked Guan Lu to describe portentious events occuring in the world.

The mystic, who spoke only in riddles as mystics are wont to do, said to Zhong "A winged shadow descends upon a deserted village. Is it surprised? In the ancient capital, a man swallows and chokes on a phoenix. He dies and is born anew, but perhaps there are some who can tell the difference. The oxen charge against the wall again and again but they cannot find the door handle."

Huang Zhong, unimpressed, dismissed his general and returned to bed.

Night 2 is ended. No one died.

It's the Yan ruler who was told in the scene about the Usurper? (if that's what the poenix refers to?) It's strange that it refers to someone who gave him more information before. Did his finder make a succesfull find on the Usurper already?

Yush, this is worse than trying to make cases.

[Karosis]

Osseric, on 05 October 2011 - 07:45 AM, said:

So there really are clues in the scenes? Crap, I skimmed them until now, FFS I can't even figure out what names are people and what names are cities.

ditto

[Karosis]

yea... im inclined to agree with osseric.

I dont see any reason to keep Tiam around now that i know who she is.

Unless something more intriguing appears i'll be laying my vote down on somebody that aint in my faction.

[Tiamatha]

Tiamatha has joined #Rot3K

@Tiam sets mode: +Tiamatha

<@Tiam> Hey Tiamatha, how's it going?

<+Tiamatha> My joints ache like I've been run over by a truck -- and this fever is shaking me up. Plus I'm not exactly eager for today, since I'm a prime candidate for a lynch.

<@Tiam> Ouch - Sorry to hear about that. What did you do to get yourself in such a lynchable position by the way?

<+Tiamatha> Beats me. I guess mainly because I talk the talk and walk the walk. Yesterday's 'Flavor of the Day' was me being an Empress, a Warlord and the Usurper - when in reality I'm simply the best thing since sliced bread and melted cheese. Today's 'Flavor of the Day' is me being Cen Pi and a Xia jackal.

<@Tiam> Cen Pi? How did that name fly out?

<+Tiamatha> I don't even know. A supposed 'successful' find, which people believe without questioning.

<@Tiam> Finders are nasty folks.

<+Tiamatha> True that. Especially in a M&P game, they are quite valuable. In a Faction game as well, but there have been some controversies.

<@Tiam> Controversies? What do you mean?

<+Tiamatha> Well, look at that Cen Pi fellow for example. D'rek have been kind enough to provide us with a link where she gives a rundown on all the characters that have participated so far in the Rot3K games, and she bolded blue the names of the fellows who are still alive, and possibly / probably having a place in this last game as well.

<@Tiam> Oh, yea, I know about that, I read it in extension -- It's very informative, plus you get to find out stuff about the lore, what happened in previous games, and what are these guys upto now.

<+Tiamatha> So, according to that, Cen Pi has been dishing it out with the rest of his Xia hommies against Gongsun Zan, while Cen Pi's pimp, Yuan Shao, takes care of shit down in the south. Both do well in their respective campaigns to secure their neighborhoods and Yuan Shao becomes Pimp Emperor, while Cen Pi runs down the drug/prostitution rings up north. And that's where our game starts.

<@Tiam> Your point being?

<+Tiamatha> My point being is that Cen Pi's starting location has to be Xin Du - Since he's maintaining discipline on the illegal rings on the northern boarders while keeping the rival gang of Gongsun Zan from invading in his turf.

<@Tiam> Hmm.. Well, it makes some sense. So, what comes after that?

<+Tiamatha> Well, insert TopDog He Qi.

<@Tiam> Who's that champ?

<+Tiamatha> He's a lackey of Pimp Huang Zhong. It's the Yan gang settled on the South Side. Never the less, in comes He Qi.

<@Tiam> What's his story?

<+Tiamatha> TopDog He Qi supposely had a meeting with Ma "Sir" Liang, a subordinate of Pimp Zhang Xiu of the Lu gang, who operates the North. So, they would meet in Jiang Xia, which is a neighborhood deep into Yan controlled territory. There, witnesses saw He Qi accuse Ma Liang of disrespect, then pulled out his piece and popped Liang's ass. Federal Agents collected shells from the scene, and linked He Qi with Ma Liang's death.

<@Tiam> What does that have to do with Cen Pi though?

<+Tiamatha> We'll get to that. Moving on with TopDog He Qi, at sometime he fell ill with some sort of STD, and had to spend time in Jiang Xia, under the protection of the Yan gang. But his Pimp, Huang Zhong was unhappy that his northern neighborhoods have been invaded by Xia jackals, risking his drug trade, so he send He Qi back north to deal with them. And somewhere there, north, He Qi died.

<@Tiam> So, TopDog He Qi has been moving a lot around then? He must have some decked out, pimped wheels, for sure.

<+Tiamatha> Probably yea. But the deal is that we get from two separate sources that he spend time in Jiang Xia. First he had to be there to kill Ma "Sir" Liang, and then he had to stay there to recover from the STD he picked up from his days up north. So there's a very good chance that TopDog He Qi started the game at the northern turf of the Yan gang, then moved back into Jiang Xia to spend Night 1 - so he could meet up with his Pimp, and get his marching orders for the next day, as well.

<@Tiam> So you think that He Qi was in Jiang Xia during Night 1?

<+Tiamatha> It's very possible, at least the field reports hint that way. So, if Cen Pi started the game in Xin Du, and He Qi spend Night 1 in Jiang Xia, then even if Cen Pi moved during Day 1, he could only go as far as Luo Yang. So how the hell was a 'Find' NA by He Qi able to 'reach' Luo Yang turf, and be 'successful' to boot when Godfather Path-Shaper clearly states that "If you use a standard NA on a target that is not in your location or an adjacent location (in my lingo, an "Out-of-range" action), it will not do any blocking (or anything else). Basically, all out-of-range actions submitted are immediately discarded at the start of NA resolution and not considered further."

<@Tiam> You are asking me? I'm your fucking alter ego, a creation of your deranged mind. How the fuck should I know? Don't you know?

<+Tiamatha> Well... I have no fucking clue, to be honest.

<@Tiam> Sigh... I feel for you, dude. It's still probably not gonna be enough to save your ass from getting ganged.

<+Tiamatha> Tell me about it. But I'm getting tired... I got a piece though, and I know how to use it, so I'm gonna take as many motherfuckers down with me as I can. Never the less, I feel physically weak now, so I'm gonna lay down and get some sleep. Talk to you soon, dude. Peace.

<@Tiam> Hey dude, before you go, let me ask you one question.

<+Tiamatha> What's up?

<@Tiam> <whisper> It's just the two of us now. You and me. Noone else around. So, off the record. Are you an Emperor? Are you a Warlord? Are you the Usurper? Or even this Cen Pi guy?

<+Tiamatha>

[Osseric]

Haha, that was awesome

[Osseric]

I'm willing to consider that possibility that Serc lied about his find, but I just can't figure out his motive.

If he just wanted to screw Tiam, he would have fake-revealed her at the Predator or something. If he wanted to help Tiam, he would have fake-revealed a find on someone else.

But if there's something I missed, I'm all ears

[Telas]

Meanas, on 04 October 2011 - 11:00 PM, said:

Ok, let's see what we have:

On the Serc train: Sorritt, Sheltatha Lore, Meanas, Okaros, Emurlahn, Tennes, Telas, Barghast, Atrahal, Korlat, Omtose, Osseric, and Kessobahn.

Tiamatha was on the train but got off. After Serc's reveal, Telas removed their vote and then put it back on again, while Omtose, Osseric and Kessobahn all voted after. Of these, Osseric and Kessobahn both did a lot of wringing of hands before placing their votes, but Omtose was more decisive:

Omtose, on 04 October 2011 - 03:11 AM, said:

Serc while I find your reveal interesting. I think that the case on Tiam is even more hogwash then the one that started out on you.i.e. you and Gamelon interacting. If you are a finder then for the safety of my faction I am going to have to vote you out. I suspect that even if your not lynched then you will probably be night killed. Revealed finders have a tendency to die especially ones that reveal early in the game. Of course I also suspect that Tiam will probably see a lot of night actions or at least attempted ones.

Vote Serc

To me this now sounds as Omtose is calling on Serc to be NKed should he not be lynched. In addition, the last bit could be construed as an appeal to Xia people to defend Tiam if they can from threat of night action. I believe Omtose to be in the Xia faction as a result.

Now, Telas, who removed their vote from Serc and then soon after put it back on again, said this:

Telas, on 04 October 2011 - 08:49 AM, said:

Thinking about this, I still find myself more willing to vote for Serc than Tiam. Especially as Serc claims finder which seems a little dangerous to keep around. I'd rather not have faction members thrown to the buss left and right.

Vote Serc

Basically the same response to the reveal as Omtose. Was the removal of the vote for our benefit to make it seem as if Telas was weighing the options when in fact there was only ever one choice open to them?


Now the Tiamatha train which stalled:

Up to 9 people were on it at one point - Kessobahn, Ruse, Karosis, Osseric, Rashan, Serc, Silanah, Mockra and Galain.

Kessobahn and Osseric switched to Serc late in the day, whilst Karosis removed their vote but didn't vote again. The initial case on Tiamatha was based on their talk about the Usurper, which led to various speculation on their role as the Usurper, an Emperor, or a Warlord, none of which appear to be correct.

Silanah, Mockra and Galain all voted for Tiamatha after Serc's reveal, so either they are not Xia faction (probable), or they saw it as an inevitability that Tiam would now be lynched and wanted to jump on to continue to keep others guessing as to their own faction identity (possible).

As you also saw when you read that post, I removed my vote (though stupidly in the same post) simply to avoid someone hammering while I was going through the thread. Once I had posted my thoughts there weren't many minutes gone before I put my vote back up.

[Telas]

Also. Sorry. I MultiQuoted a few posts but decided that it's better to make several shorter ones than one ridiculously long post filled with quotes that have very little in the way of connections.

Tiamatha, on 05 October 2011 - 06:22 AM, said:

My body aches in places I never thought possible - plus I seem to have caught a cold as well.
Talk about goddamn luck >.<

I'm watching the discussion about the Phoenix and the interpretations of the CF and the Usurper --- It looks interesting enough.
I don't know a whole lot about Chinese culture, but some of the ideas presented here sound intriguing, to say the least.



And btw

Rashan, on 05 October 2011 - 12:58 AM, said:

Some quick comments here. First of all, the first paragraph describes Xia invading Chang An (the capital of the Han Dynasty, the empire previous to the three kingdom's storyline). This will be relevant when talking about Guan Lu's divination below. Second, the last part of the first paragraph describes Xia forces invading 3 of the northern most towns in the Yan kingdom.

So, it sounds like the scuffle between Tiam and Serc is described as such: Serc, based out of Jiang Xia in the Yan Dynasty was facing off with Xia troublemakers (Tiam). Since Tiam was found by Serc, who had the ability to "find" as a Civil Officer, I think we can safely bet that Tiam is currently on the He Fe tile adjacent to the Jiang Xia tile.

I'll take you up on that bet. What kind of odds do you want?

I have to ask about this, not having paid attention to all the games before in the series, what is D'rek's view on hints in the night and day scenes? I generally assume that there are none but it seems as if that's not the case here. Is that how it was in the previous games too?

[Karosis]

Osseric, on 05 October 2011 - 08:44 AM, said:

I'm willing to consider that possibility that Serc lied about his find, but I just can't figure out his motive.

If he just wanted to screw Tiam, he would have fake-revealed her at the Predator or something. If he wanted to help Tiam, he would have fake-revealed a find on someone else.

But if there's something I missed, I'm all ears

no reason for him to lie... he woud want his team to have as much info as he could give, if he lied he would also confuse his own team mates.

[Telas]

Osseric, on 05 October 2011 - 07:35 AM, said:

I'm a bit surprised about the lack of pressure on Tiam so far today.

Comment 1: Was Serc telling the truth about her? Well, we know Serc was a CO with finding abilities, and he was Yan. He revealed Tiam as Xia. What did he have to win by lying?

Comment 2: We know the Usurper appeared last night, with a nice "pheonix reborn" scene that also tells us that he is in one of the three "empire" factions. We know Tiam is part of the empire factions. Her revealed name doesn't fit, but was the Usurper called Sima Yi from the start? (i.e. can she be found before activating?).

Now, if someone can explain to me why the Usurper should be in Yan, I'm all ears, because I'm not sure I get it. If that's the case, maybe we should indeed try to re-read and figure out candidates from Serc's posts, but if the Usurper is a civil official, Serc would not necesserally know of him. It would not be an easy task

Comment 3: Tiam's faction is revealed in a faction game. Sorry, but she's a dead woman walking. Everyone but his team should want her lynched, and his team can't afford to sound hesitant. Unless those looking for her location are trying to get her vigged, but meh.

vote Tiam

This posts brings up several points of discussion, and I'll try to use it thus to comments on the relevant ones. Yes, I decide what is relevant. It is known.

First, Serc's reveal is still very strange to my mind. He presumably didn't lie about being a finder, however, I cannot understand what he wanted to accomplish with his reveal. Look, he revealed Tiamatha's role and thus his own, which was a rather strange move considering his role being a better lynch target than that of Tiamatha. He basically gave us a better reason to lynch him than we had before, and it boggles my mind that he didn't understand that right away.

That's why this whole thing confuses me a little. It's too daft to be entirely believable.

Now, for the Sima Yi part. Building massive conspiracies about name changes based on no information what so ever is rather ridiculous. Rather than provide any help it creates a smoke screen only capable of sowing confusion.



And finally.

Omtose, on 05 October 2011 - 05:14 AM, said:

I almost forgot the phoenix bird is used to represent the south in Chinese geomagnetism.

I have now spent a good time on google reading about Chinese geomagnetism. You learn something new every day.