[Gamelon]

Right, I'm back and going to look over the game. Now that we've had time to have some reactions to the initial case, I'm going to do a sift for suspiciousness. IMO this is far more likely to turn up something than the initial case, which I value as weak by virtue of being done with next to no information. Plus, it would be good to have a Day 1 where there are only two possible trains at the end of it. The selection process for who has been voted for so far has been (a) the person I picked on and ( the person doing the picking. That methodology is not conducive to finding people with important roles.

[Sheltatha Lore]

@P-S - My vote is for freeze timer, talking only

[Gamelon]

Okaros, on 29 September 2011 - 03:07 PM, said:

I agree that it is possible that Gamelon is targeting Emur and feeling safe it since they may be sharing civil servant roles. This in itself is interesting, but does it warrant a vote I wonder? Tiam wants us to target the Usurper. All well and good, but it is doubtful that we could nail the Usurper this early in the game. Chances are the fellow is laying low until he can recruit some people.

I love this game because it is difficult to justify pushing a lynch on someone even if we know (or have a good idea of) what role they have. Knowing that Emur and Game might be civil servants only makes them a target if you know they aren't on your team. The only legitimate target would be a faction leader. So confusing and fantastic.

I will read over the thread again in hopes to pick up on some things I may have missed. Maybe looking into the alleged signalling will help narrow down a potential faction leader.

I don't see why not having much chance of finding the Usurper prevents us from trying to find him. Perhaps someone doesn't want the thread to be chasing him too hard?

[Gamelon]

Osseric, on 29 September 2011 - 03:35 PM, said:

the vote is interesting, since he's being accused of signaling Gamelon (even if he wasn't meaning to, his reaction was strange when he was called on it). Gambit?

Here, weren't you talking about finding simple explanations earlier? Seems to me that the more logical pattern to his behaviour is that he doesn't have any special reason to want me alive and has dropped a vote anticipating a him or me scenario.

[Omtose]

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 09:00 PM, said:

Okaros, on 29 September 2011 - 03:07 PM, said:

I agree that it is possible that Gamelon is targeting Emur and feeling safe it since they may be sharing civil servant roles. This in itself is interesting, but does it warrant a vote I wonder? Tiam wants us to target the Usurper. All well and good, but it is doubtful that we could nail the Usurper this early in the game. Chances are the fellow is laying low until he can recruit some people.

I love this game because it is difficult to justify pushing a lynch on someone even if we know (or have a good idea of) what role they have. Knowing that Emur and Game might be civil servants only makes them a target if you know they aren't on your team. The only legitimate target would be a faction leader. So confusing and fantastic.

I will read over the thread again in hopes to pick up on some things I may have missed. Maybe looking into the alleged signalling will help narrow down a potential faction leader.

I don't see why not having much chance of finding the Usurper prevents us from trying to find him. Perhaps someone doesn't want the thread to be chasing him too hard?

And that is the second player to talked about the usurper. The first being Tiam. Now if previous games are anything to go on. Then Tiam could be the usurper hunter which would make Okaros the Usurper or vice versa. I shall put my money where my words are at.

Vote Okaros

[Barghast]

Emurlahn, on 29 September 2011 - 07:57 PM, said:

Meanas, on 29 September 2011 - 07:50 PM, said:

I'm been looking at the map, and it strikes me that the Lu and Xia factions have more to fear than Yan at the moment, as they've got the warlords moving down on them, while Yan don't have such a thing. Now, if I was thinking in terms of game balancing, I might suggest that the Usurper could start off in Yan lands.

No one's really talked about moving yet (unsurprisingly, everyone's keeping their cards close to their chest) but I hazard that the 'hub' areas - the ones that join to more than one adjacent area, will see a lot of the action.

I would posit that Yan is also the largest faction. having won their "tale" game, they do not have to worry about the Nanman rebels hitting them from behind.

Could very well be... Interesting.

Looking at the map, I guess that also may mean that Yan lands are going to get crowded, however The two warlords must pass through the lands of the faction they border to get to the centre (which are I guess the places with the most success for night actions), and given that we know that Champions are killers and that they are the only underlings of warlords we know about, it seems to be smart to put some distance between them and yourself if you can. In that case, at least at the start, it might be a trifle dangerous to stick to Xia or Lu lands.

To increase the speculation a notch: D'rek said that some abilities are tied to tiles, well, it seems reasonable that those who have such abilities can pull that stuff in their own 'realm' only (warlords perhaps excepted seeing how their realm is in a tiny 1 tile shared corner of the map). So, people with such abilities might try to seek cross-border towns: Chang An, He Fei, Yong An to both keep their extra ability and get out of the way of the warlords/ as close as they can to the lands of other factions to target those.

As for the Yan, once again, entirely speculative, but they may not be without demons. I guess both warlord factions mirror one another. Then, if the Yan are the biggest, I can see that being off-set by them having the usurper in their midst as their special problem. This would be more likely if the Lu and Xia are mirrors in size and/or set-up (which may or may not be true): after all, it would be quite unfair to give one of them an additional handicap by putting Sima Yi in their faction as well.

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 08:37 PM, said:

Right, I'm back and going to look over the game. Now that we've had time to have some reactions to the initial case, I'm going to do a sift for suspiciousness. IMO this is far more likely to turn up something than the initial case, which I value as weak by virtue of being done with next to no information. Plus, it would be good to have a Day 1 where there are only two possible trains at the end of it. The selection process for who has been voted for so far has been (a) the person I picked on and ( the person doing the picking. That methodology is not conducive to finding people with important roles.

Feeling the heat?

[Barghast]

Omtose, on 29 September 2011 - 09:08 PM, said:

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 09:00 PM, said:

Okaros, on 29 September 2011 - 03:07 PM, said:

I agree that it is possible that Gamelon is targeting Emur and feeling safe it since they may be sharing civil servant roles. This in itself is interesting, but does it warrant a vote I wonder? Tiam wants us to target the Usurper. All well and good, but it is doubtful that we could nail the Usurper this early in the game. Chances are the fellow is laying low until he can recruit some people.

I love this game because it is difficult to justify pushing a lynch on someone even if we know (or have a good idea of) what role they have. Knowing that Emur and Game might be civil servants only makes them a target if you know they aren't on your team. The only legitimate target would be a faction leader. So confusing and fantastic.

I will read over the thread again in hopes to pick up on some things I may have missed. Maybe looking into the alleged signalling will help narrow down a potential faction leader.

I don't see why not having much chance of finding the Usurper prevents us from trying to find him. Perhaps someone doesn't want the thread to be chasing him too hard?

And that is the second player to talked about the usurper. The first being Tiam. Now if previous games are anything to go on. Then Tiam could be the usurper hunter which would make Okaros the Usurper or vice versa. I shall put my money where my words are at.

Vote Okaros

Are you pulling a role out of your ass? I think you are pulling a role out of your ass.
And if not, how come you know there is one (or more) when there aren't any in the seven roles named in the OP (Emperor, PM, civvie, military, warlord, champion, usurper)?

You also fail to mention that just after Okaros mentioned the usurper, so did Gamelon. Trying to deflect away from him?

[Emurlahn]

Barghast, on 29 September 2011 - 09:11 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 29 September 2011 - 07:57 PM, said:

Meanas, on 29 September 2011 - 07:50 PM, said:

I'm been looking at the map, and it strikes me that the Lu and Xia factions have more to fear than Yan at the moment, as they've got the warlords moving down on them, while Yan don't have such a thing. Now, if I was thinking in terms of game balancing, I might suggest that the Usurper could start off in Yan lands.

No one's really talked about moving yet (unsurprisingly, everyone's keeping their cards close to their chest) but I hazard that the 'hub' areas - the ones that join to more than one adjacent area, will see a lot of the action.

I would posit that Yan is also the largest faction. having won their "tale" game, they do not have to worry about the Nanman rebels hitting them from behind.

Could very well be... Interesting.

Looking at the map, I guess that also may mean that Yan lands are going to get crowded, however The two warlords must pass through the lands of the faction they border to get to the centre (which are I guess the places with the most success for night actions), and given that we know that Champions are killers and that they are the only underlings of warlords we know about, it seems to be smart to put some distance between them and yourself if you can. In that case, at least at the start, it might be a trifle dangerous to stick to Xia or Lu lands.

To increase the speculation a notch: D'rek said that some abilities are tied to tiles, well, it seems reasonable that those who have such abilities can pull that stuff in their own 'realm' only (warlords perhaps excepted seeing how their realm is in a tiny 1 tile shared corner of the map). So, people with such abilities might try to seek cross-border towns: Chang An, He Fei, Yong An to both keep their extra ability and get out of the way of the warlords/ as close as they can to the lands of other factions to target those.

As for the Yan, once again, entirely speculative, but they may not be without demons. I guess both warlord factions mirror one another. Then, if the Yan are the biggest, I can see that being off-set by them having the usurper in their midst as their special problem. This would be more likely if the Lu and Xia are mirrors in size and/or set-up (which may or may not be true): after all, it would be quite unfair to give one of them an additional handicap by putting Sima Yi in their faction as well.

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 08:37 PM, said:

Right, I'm back and going to look over the game. Now that we've had time to have some reactions to the initial case, I'm going to do a sift for suspiciousness. IMO this is far more likely to turn up something than the initial case, which I value as weak by virtue of being done with next to no information. Plus, it would be good to have a Day 1 where there are only two possible trains at the end of it. The selection process for who has been voted for so far has been (a) the person I picked on and ( the person doing the picking. That methodology is not conducive to finding people with important roles.

Feeling the heat?

well, if we are to follow history (a tad of a risk, but still)



the 3 kingdomw were Wei (largest), Wu, and Shu

transposed onto the current makeup, we'd get:

wei=Xia (claim succession from the original Han dynasty, lost their chance to unite China at the battle of red Cliffs/Shang Yong (see game 4))

Wu=Yan (the souther kingdom, Huang river being the border)

Shu=Lu (the smallest, protected by numerous mountain passes on the border with Wei)


historically, Wei conquered Shu. then Sima Yi took over for Cao-Cao's descendants, and his dynasty conquered Wu.

by that logic, Sima Yi would be hiding amongst Wei (Xia)

although I agree that game-wise it'd make more sense to stick him with Yan.

[Gamelon]

Serc, on 29 September 2011 - 04:16 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 29 September 2011 - 03:25 PM, said:

I am here briefly, as i'm nearly late for class.

as someone pointed out, your typical qwerty keyboard has a comma next to the m.



so htere, m,eanas!
now, since people don't seem capable of letting it go:



vote Gamelon

because oh, my, god, your case sucks



back in a few hours

I think this is a bogus post. Just because the [,] and [m] keys are next to each other on the keyboard...justifies nothing. And you seem to have deliberately made the same mistake just to prove that point? And then a deliberate OMGUS vote. None of this sits well with me. The hiding-in-plain-sight thing - trying to downplay things that would otherwise be suspicious by pointing them out, drawing attention to them, or deliberately being obvious about them - well, it's too early in the game for this to get a pass, I think.

Vote Emurlahn

Of course, the other problem right now is that with so many people playing, half of everyone (myself included) has 5 posts or fewer, and so at this point the nail that sticks up tends to get hammered down. Not a lot of other options, though.

OK, this stinks. So there aren't a lot of options? Well make some options then! But of course, that would involve sticking your head over the parapet and risk people looking at you critically, and we can't have that.

Serc, on 29 September 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:

I'm getting cozy with whom? Gamelon? Fuck Gamelon. Due to his involvement with Emurlahn I see him as the next best target besides Emur. I mentioned earlier that it looked like Game was trying to distance himself from Emur with a vote after their initial interaction. Or did you mean I was getting cozy with Emurlahn? Anyone who thinks there was any interaction between Emurlahn and I needs to reread the thread. My first response and comment to him was followed by a vote on him. Somehow people just started saying, "yeah, those interactions between serc/game/emur!!!" when in reality...the interactions are all between Gamelon and someone else.

I think your problem is you want to find Emur's Emperor and lynch him on day 1. Odds are that isn't going to happen. We have very little info to base a lynch on; it's day 1, that's how it is. The best option is to find the most suspicious interactions, explore them if possible, and lynch someone involved. You even say you're ok with an Emurlahn vote but you'd rather lynch the person he was signaling - great, that's exactly what I said when I voted, so how can you criticize me for following the line of thought you are putting forward? I smell hypocrisy and dissembling.

You think players with good roles are going to do anything that even remotely rocks the boat on Day 1 given that philosophy? No, they're just going to play along with the first thing that comes along. Which is exactly what you're suggesting everyone else does.




I've been looking for people who are trying to lay low. Of all those on thread, Serc looks the most suspicious. He wants to drive home the first thing that comes along and is unwilling to search for other options, despite acknowledging that it would be nice if there were some.

Remove Vote

Vote Serc

[Gamelon]

Barghast, on 29 September 2011 - 09:11 PM, said:

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 08:37 PM, said:

Right, I'm back and going to look over the game. Now that we've had time to have some reactions to the initial case, I'm going to do a sift for suspiciousness. IMO this is far more likely to turn up something than the initial case, which I value as weak by virtue of being done with next to no information. Plus, it would be good to have a Day 1 where there are only two possible trains at the end of it. The selection process for who has been voted for so far has been (a) the person I picked on and ( the person doing the picking. That methodology is not conducive to finding people with important roles.

Feeling the heat?

Pfft. I'm getting things moving. If there's time for discussion, then I'm going to use it.

[Gamelon]

Emurlahn, on 29 September 2011 - 09:19 PM, said:

Barghast, on 29 September 2011 - 09:11 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 29 September 2011 - 07:57 PM, said:

Meanas, on 29 September 2011 - 07:50 PM, said:

I'm been looking at the map, and it strikes me that the Lu and Xia factions have more to fear than Yan at the moment, as they've got the warlords moving down on them, while Yan don't have such a thing. Now, if I was thinking in terms of game balancing, I might suggest that the Usurper could start off in Yan lands.

No one's really talked about moving yet (unsurprisingly, everyone's keeping their cards close to their chest) but I hazard that the 'hub' areas - the ones that join to more than one adjacent area, will see a lot of the action.

I would posit that Yan is also the largest faction. having won their "tale" game, they do not have to worry about the Nanman rebels hitting them from behind.

Could very well be... Interesting.

Looking at the map, I guess that also may mean that Yan lands are going to get crowded, however The two warlords must pass through the lands of the faction they border to get to the centre (which are I guess the places with the most success for night actions), and given that we know that Champions are killers and that they are the only underlings of warlords we know about, it seems to be smart to put some distance between them and yourself if you can. In that case, at least at the start, it might be a trifle dangerous to stick to Xia or Lu lands.

To increase the speculation a notch: D'rek said that some abilities are tied to tiles, well, it seems reasonable that those who have such abilities can pull that stuff in their own 'realm' only (warlords perhaps excepted seeing how their realm is in a tiny 1 tile shared corner of the map). So, people with such abilities might try to seek cross-border towns: Chang An, He Fei, Yong An to both keep their extra ability and get out of the way of the warlords/ as close as they can to the lands of other factions to target those.

As for the Yan, once again, entirely speculative, but they may not be without demons. I guess both warlord factions mirror one another. Then, if the Yan are the biggest, I can see that being off-set by them having the usurper in their midst as their special problem. This would be more likely if the Lu and Xia are mirrors in size and/or set-up (which may or may not be true): after all, it would be quite unfair to give one of them an additional handicap by putting Sima Yi in their faction as well.

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 08:37 PM, said:

Right, I'm back and going to look over the game. Now that we've had time to have some reactions to the initial case, I'm going to do a sift for suspiciousness. IMO this is far more likely to turn up something than the initial case, which I value as weak by virtue of being done with next to no information. Plus, it would be good to have a Day 1 where there are only two possible trains at the end of it. The selection process for who has been voted for so far has been (a) the person I picked on and ( the person doing the picking. That methodology is not conducive to finding people with important roles.

Feeling the heat?

well, if we are to follow history (a tad of a risk, but still)



the 3 kingdomw were Wei (largest), Wu, and Shu

transposed onto the current makeup, we'd get:

wei=Xia (claim succession from the original Han dynasty, lost their chance to unite China at the battle of red Cliffs/Shang Yong (see game 4))

Wu=Yan (the souther kingdom, Huang river being the border)

Shu=Lu (the smallest, protected by numerous mountain passes on the border with Wei)


historically, Wei conquered Shu. then Sima Yi took over for Cao-Cao's descendants, and his dynasty conquered Wu.

by that logic, Sima Yi would be hiding amongst Wei (Xia)

although I agree that game-wise it'd make more sense to stick him with Yan.

Thanks for the historical info - saves me having to look it up elsewhere.

I reckon it's dangerous to make any assumptions about symmetry. Yes, the map would seem to emphasize that possibility, but those three hidden roles have to be distributed between the teams somehow. Would make sense for the factions to all have slightly different personnel, IMO.

Another random observation - I don't think there's going to be a lot of movement, at least initially. The rules say you can only successfully move if either (i) there are no enemies on your starting tile or (ii) there is at least one ally on your finishing tile. It's going to be hard to jump into the heart of enemy territory, because you won't have any allies there, and on the borders there are likely to be players from a different faction to stop you. Since I would guess that everyone starts within their own faction's borders, you're probably not going to be able to get into enemy territory until there have been some lynches/NKs to loosen up the borders a little.

[Serc]

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 09:20 PM, said:

Serc, on 29 September 2011 - 04:16 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 29 September 2011 - 03:25 PM, said:

I am here briefly, as i'm nearly late for class.

as someone pointed out, your typical qwerty keyboard has a comma next to the m.



so htere, m,eanas!
now, since people don't seem capable of letting it go:



vote Gamelon

because oh, my, god, your case sucks



back in a few hours

I think this is a bogus post. Just because the [,] and [m] keys are next to each other on the keyboard...justifies nothing. And you seem to have deliberately made the same mistake just to prove that point? And then a deliberate OMGUS vote. None of this sits well with me. The hiding-in-plain-sight thing - trying to downplay things that would otherwise be suspicious by pointing them out, drawing attention to them, or deliberately being obvious about them - well, it's too early in the game for this to get a pass, I think.

Vote Emurlahn

Of course, the other problem right now is that with so many people playing, half of everyone (myself included) has 5 posts or fewer, and so at this point the nail that sticks up tends to get hammered down. Not a lot of other options, though.

OK, this stinks. So there aren't a lot of options? Well make some options then! But of course, that would involve sticking your head over the parapet and risk people looking at you critically, and we can't have that.

Serc, on 29 September 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:

I'm getting cozy with whom? Gamelon? Fuck Gamelon. Due to his involvement with Emurlahn I see him as the next best target besides Emur. I mentioned earlier that it looked like Game was trying to distance himself from Emur with a vote after their initial interaction. Or did you mean I was getting cozy with Emurlahn? Anyone who thinks there was any interaction between Emurlahn and I needs to reread the thread. My first response and comment to him was followed by a vote on him. Somehow people just started saying, "yeah, those interactions between serc/game/emur!!!" when in reality...the interactions are all between Gamelon and someone else.

I think your problem is you want to find Emur's Emperor and lynch him on day 1. Odds are that isn't going to happen. We have very little info to base a lynch on; it's day 1, that's how it is. The best option is to find the most suspicious interactions, explore them if possible, and lynch someone involved. You even say you're ok with an Emurlahn vote but you'd rather lynch the person he was signaling - great, that's exactly what I said when I voted, so how can you criticize me for following the line of thought you are putting forward? I smell hypocrisy and dissembling.

You think players with good roles are going to do anything that even remotely rocks the boat on Day 1 given that philosophy? No, they're just going to play along with the first thing that comes along. Which is exactly what you're suggesting everyone else does.




I've been looking for people who are trying to lay low. Of all those on thread, Serc looks the most suspicious. He wants to drive home the first thing that comes along and is unwilling to search for other options, despite acknowledging that it would be nice if there were some.

Remove Vote

Vote Serc

Wait...say what? You say I'm trying to lay low, but three or four other people have called me out for being too aggressive. You say I'm "unwilling to search for other options", but actually...I never said anything like that. I'm perfectly willing to consider another target but the only "cases", if you can call them that, are so weak there might as well be none. I voted for Emurlahn because I found his behavior suspicious; truthfully, no one else is sticking out to me like he is at the moment, which is why I said there aren't many options. We've only seen serious votes for a few targets; why would you vote for someone who simply brings up this factual information? It isn't suspicious or weird to say that there aren't a lot of viable options when only a few people are getting heat and a lot of people have posted only once or twice.

Anyway, not only is your logic terrible, but you deliberately misrepresent what's happened on thread and your case is based on things I never said. I don't know how you expect to be taken seriously when you can't even comprehend five pages of minor activity.

[Okaros]

Checking in from the library. I'll just quickly address Gamelon while I'm here before heading home.

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 09:00 PM, said:

Okaros, on 29 September 2011 - 03:07 PM, said:

I agree that it is possible that Gamelon is targeting Emur and feeling safe it since they may be sharing civil servant roles. This in itself is interesting, but does it warrant a vote I wonder? Tiam wants us to target the Usurper. All well and good, but it is doubtful that we could nail the Usurper this early in the game. Chances are the fellow is laying low until he can recruit some people.

I love this game because it is difficult to justify pushing a lynch on someone even if we know (or have a good idea of) what role they have. Knowing that Emur and Game might be civil servants only makes them a target if you know they aren't on your team. The only legitimate target would be a faction leader. So confusing and fantastic.

I will read over the thread again in hopes to pick up on some things I may have missed. Maybe looking into the alleged signalling will help narrow down a potential faction leader.

I don't see why not having much chance of finding the Usurper prevents us from trying to find him. Perhaps someone doesn't want the thread to be chasing him too hard?

You are correct in saying that just because it is difficult we shouldn't give up on tracking the Usurper. I realize you are trying to prompt discussion, but I feel that my point stands. After going through the thread once more, there is no evidence that the Usurper has made any overt moves. And if the usurper is any good, I think he/she would avoid drawing attention this early in the game. The Usurper, for obvious reasons, would benefit from buying as much time as possible and keeping his/her head down (just speculation, but it seems to be reasonable). Though this may be the case right now, it is very possible others may find some sign that I missed, and I encourage fresh sets of eyes to look for for evidence.

[Okaros]

Serc, on 29 September 2011 - 09:44 PM, said:

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 09:20 PM, said:

Serc, on 29 September 2011 - 04:16 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 29 September 2011 - 03:25 PM, said:

I am here briefly, as i'm nearly late for class.

as someone pointed out, your typical qwerty keyboard has a comma next to the m.



so htere, m,eanas!
now, since people don't seem capable of letting it go:



vote Gamelon

because oh, my, god, your case sucks



back in a few hours

I think this is a bogus post. Just because the [,] and [m] keys are next to each other on the keyboard...justifies nothing. And you seem to have deliberately made the same mistake just to prove that point? And then a deliberate OMGUS vote. None of this sits well with me. The hiding-in-plain-sight thing - trying to downplay things that would otherwise be suspicious by pointing them out, drawing attention to them, or deliberately being obvious about them - well, it's too early in the game for this to get a pass, I think.

Vote Emurlahn

Of course, the other problem right now is that with so many people playing, half of everyone (myself included) has 5 posts or fewer, and so at this point the nail that sticks up tends to get hammered down. Not a lot of other options, though.

OK, this stinks. So there aren't a lot of options? Well make some options then! But of course, that would involve sticking your head over the parapet and risk people looking at you critically, and we can't have that.

Serc, on 29 September 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:

I'm getting cozy with whom? Gamelon? Fuck Gamelon. Due to his involvement with Emurlahn I see him as the next best target besides Emur. I mentioned earlier that it looked like Game was trying to distance himself from Emur with a vote after their initial interaction. Or did you mean I was getting cozy with Emurlahn? Anyone who thinks there was any interaction between Emurlahn and I needs to reread the thread. My first response and comment to him was followed by a vote on him. Somehow people just started saying, "yeah, those interactions between serc/game/emur!!!" when in reality...the interactions are all between Gamelon and someone else.

I think your problem is you want to find Emur's Emperor and lynch him on day 1. Odds are that isn't going to happen. We have very little info to base a lynch on; it's day 1, that's how it is. The best option is to find the most suspicious interactions, explore them if possible, and lynch someone involved. You even say you're ok with an Emurlahn vote but you'd rather lynch the person he was signaling - great, that's exactly what I said when I voted, so how can you criticize me for following the line of thought you are putting forward? I smell hypocrisy and dissembling.

You think players with good roles are going to do anything that even remotely rocks the boat on Day 1 given that philosophy? No, they're just going to play along with the first thing that comes along. Which is exactly what you're suggesting everyone else does.




I've been looking for people who are trying to lay low. Of all those on thread, Serc looks the most suspicious. He wants to drive home the first thing that comes along and is unwilling to search for other options, despite acknowledging that it would be nice if there were some.

Remove Vote

Vote Serc

Wait...say what? You say I'm trying to lay low, but three or four other people have called me out for being too aggressive. You say I'm "unwilling to search for other options", but actually...I never said anything like that. I'm perfectly willing to consider another target but the only "cases", if you can call them that, are so weak there might as well be none. I voted for Emurlahn because I found his behavior suspicious; truthfully, no one else is sticking out to me like he is at the moment, which is why I said there aren't many options. We've only seen serious votes for a few targets; why would you vote for someone who simply brings up this factual information? It isn't suspicious or weird to say that there aren't a lot of viable options when only a few people are getting heat and a lot of people have posted only once or twice.

Anyway, not only is your logic terrible, but you deliberately misrepresent what's happened on thread and your case is based on things I never said. I don't know how you expect to be taken seriously when you can't even comprehend five pages of minor activity.

I think it's clear that Game is fishing for reactions. Specifically reactions that encourage a defensive reply like this one.

I agree that the most suspicious character playing right now is Emur, and as I said I believe he/she may be a powerplayer. There is not a lot to go on, but it is better than nothing.

There were a few people who said that they would not be able to play an active role during the game. Still, it bothers me that a few people who have barely posted need to be overlooked because they have not contributed, or are unwilling to do so. But what can we do? Pick a random player who has barely contributed and vote for them at random? This is why day 1 play is often frustrating.

Well I'm off for now, I'll check in once I get home.

[Gamelon]

Serc, on 29 September 2011 - 09:44 PM, said:

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 09:20 PM, said:

Serc, on 29 September 2011 - 04:16 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 29 September 2011 - 03:25 PM, said:

I am here briefly, as i'm nearly late for class.

as someone pointed out, your typical qwerty keyboard has a comma next to the m.



so htere, m,eanas!
now, since people don't seem capable of letting it go:



vote Gamelon

because oh, my, god, your case sucks



back in a few hours

I think this is a bogus post. Just because the [,] and [m] keys are next to each other on the keyboard...justifies nothing. And you seem to have deliberately made the same mistake just to prove that point? And then a deliberate OMGUS vote. None of this sits well with me. The hiding-in-plain-sight thing - trying to downplay things that would otherwise be suspicious by pointing them out, drawing attention to them, or deliberately being obvious about them - well, it's too early in the game for this to get a pass, I think.

Vote Emurlahn

Of course, the other problem right now is that with so many people playing, half of everyone (myself included) has 5 posts or fewer, and so at this point the nail that sticks up tends to get hammered down. Not a lot of other options, though.

OK, this stinks. So there aren't a lot of options? Well make some options then! But of course, that would involve sticking your head over the parapet and risk people looking at you critically, and we can't have that.

Serc, on 29 September 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:

I'm getting cozy with whom? Gamelon? Fuck Gamelon. Due to his involvement with Emurlahn I see him as the next best target besides Emur. I mentioned earlier that it looked like Game was trying to distance himself from Emur with a vote after their initial interaction. Or did you mean I was getting cozy with Emurlahn? Anyone who thinks there was any interaction between Emurlahn and I needs to reread the thread. My first response and comment to him was followed by a vote on him. Somehow people just started saying, "yeah, those interactions between serc/game/emur!!!" when in reality...the interactions are all between Gamelon and someone else.

I think your problem is you want to find Emur's Emperor and lynch him on day 1. Odds are that isn't going to happen. We have very little info to base a lynch on; it's day 1, that's how it is. The best option is to find the most suspicious interactions, explore them if possible, and lynch someone involved. You even say you're ok with an Emurlahn vote but you'd rather lynch the person he was signaling - great, that's exactly what I said when I voted, so how can you criticize me for following the line of thought you are putting forward? I smell hypocrisy and dissembling.

You think players with good roles are going to do anything that even remotely rocks the boat on Day 1 given that philosophy? No, they're just going to play along with the first thing that comes along. Which is exactly what you're suggesting everyone else does.




I've been looking for people who are trying to lay low. Of all those on thread, Serc looks the most suspicious. He wants to drive home the first thing that comes along and is unwilling to search for other options, despite acknowledging that it would be nice if there were some.

Remove Vote

Vote Serc

Wait...say what? You say I'm trying to lay low, but three or four other people have called me out for being too aggressive. You say I'm "unwilling to search for other options", but actually...I never said anything like that. I'm perfectly willing to consider another target but the only "cases", if you can call them that, are so weak there might as well be none. I voted for Emurlahn because I found his behavior suspicious; truthfully, no one else is sticking out to me like he is at the moment, which is why I said there aren't many options. We've only seen serious votes for a few targets; why would you vote for someone who simply brings up this factual information? It isn't suspicious or weird to say that there aren't a lot of viable options when only a few people are getting heat and a lot of people have posted only once or twice.

Anyway, not only is your logic terrible, but you deliberately misrepresent what's happened on thread and your case is based on things I never said. I don't know how you expect to be taken seriously when you can't even comprehend five pages of minor activity.

If there are only a few people getting heat and you don't like that, then it is your responsibility to change that by throwing some accusations around. And don't give me that about no-one else being suspicious - there are plenty of people who have posted more than once that you can pick on. Hell, the fact that some people have only posted once is suspicious in itself if you make it out to be. The only thing stopping someone from making a case on someone else is their unwillingness to stick their neck out. You have shown that you are aware of the lack of cases, but you have not stuck your neck out and made one. Ergo your neck is worth protecting.

[Barghast]

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 09:20 PM, said:

Serc, on 29 September 2011 - 04:16 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 29 September 2011 - 03:25 PM, said:

I am here briefly, as i'm nearly late for class.

as someone pointed out, your typical qwerty keyboard has a comma next to the m.



so htere, m,eanas!
now, since people don't seem capable of letting it go:



vote Gamelon

because oh, my, god, your case sucks



back in a few hours

I think this is a bogus post. Just because the [,] and [m] keys are next to each other on the keyboard...justifies nothing. And you seem to have deliberately made the same mistake just to prove that point? And then a deliberate OMGUS vote. None of this sits well with me. The hiding-in-plain-sight thing - trying to downplay things that would otherwise be suspicious by pointing them out, drawing attention to them, or deliberately being obvious about them - well, it's too early in the game for this to get a pass, I think.

Vote Emurlahn

Of course, the other problem right now is that with so many people playing, half of everyone (myself included) has 5 posts or fewer, and so at this point the nail that sticks up tends to get hammered down. Not a lot of other options, though.

OK, this stinks. So there aren't a lot of options? Well make some options then! But of course, that would involve sticking your head over the parapet and risk people looking at you critically, and we can't have that.

One. As Serc says, he has been aggressive already, so accusing him of being sheepish in following people does not make sense.
Two. You're under fire with a couple of votes on you (which so far, as well as any criticism on you, you've just laughed at) and instead of answering people's doubts about you, you've clearly chosen to deflect unto others instead. If Emur is important, for his team to let you struggle is natural. For me, I'm curious to see what you come up with. This spat with Serc (who, ironically, was the guy who tried hardest to shift votes unto Emurlahn in my book) could be distancing or just a weird lash out because Serc is playing more aggressively than most on thread.
Right now, I can really see no reason for alienating/ attacking someone who hasn't voted you and instead votes the guy who has an equal number as votes as you do.

Quote

Serc, on 29 September 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:

I'm getting cozy with whom? Gamelon? Fuck Gamelon. Due to his involvement with Emurlahn I see him as the next best target besides Emur. I mentioned earlier that it looked like Game was trying to distance himself from Emur with a vote after their initial interaction. Or did you mean I was getting cozy with Emurlahn? Anyone who thinks there was any interaction between Emurlahn and I needs to reread the thread. My first response and comment to him was followed by a vote on him. Somehow people just started saying, "yeah, those interactions between serc/game/emur!!!" when in reality...the interactions are all between Gamelon and someone else.

I think your problem is you want to find Emur's Emperor and lynch him on day 1. Odds are that isn't going to happen. We have very little info to base a lynch on; it's day 1, that's how it is. The best option is to find the most suspicious interactions, explore them if possible, and lynch someone involved. You even say you're ok with an Emurlahn vote but you'd rather lynch the person he was signaling - great, that's exactly what I said when I voted, so how can you criticize me for following the line of thought you are putting forward? I smell hypocrisy and dissembling.

You think players with good roles are going to do anything that even remotely rocks the boat on Day 1 given that philosophy? No, they're just going to play along with the first thing that comes along. Which is exactly what you're suggesting everyone else does.




I've been looking for people who are trying to lay low. Of all those on thread, Serc looks the most suspicious. He wants to drive home the first thing that comes along and is unwilling to search for other options, despite acknowledging that it would be nice if there were some.

Remove Vote

Vote Serc

One. I'm curious if anyone on thread will agree with you on the point of Serc laying low. He may keep options open but he seems more driven than most.
Two. By saying important players lie low, you brand yourself as a small fry not worth pursuing since you stick out, so this is indirectly projecting a vision you want to create in your own defense.
Three. You may vote Serc (by all means, do, I have some doubts about his aggressiveness myself, but somehow you vote him for passiveness... odd) but your arguments for doing so do not really match my opinion on his play and behavior. Instead, it sounds rather desperate, some wild flailing.


In fact, you made up my mind.

Vote Gamelon.

I was actually swinging towards a vote on Emurlahn during the past hour which I spent away from thread, because he was clearly the one most likely to escape the lynch out of the two of you due to just being slightly moronic in most of his replies and that usually means you'll get away from a lynch if something other crops up.

Now, you followed the standard tactic of laughing off attacks. Fine by me, it's up to us to then up the pressure. It's also more than OK to bring someone else under scrutiny. But next time, try a little harder to match perception to argument, to make it slightly harder to debunk your 'case' (or attack), mmmkay? All you do now is sounding desperate, which isn't helping at all.

[Barghast]

Quote

If there are only a few people getting heat and you don't like that, then it is your responsibility to change that by throwing some accusations around. And don't give me that about no-one else being suspicious - there are plenty of people who have posted more than once that you can pick on. Hell, the fact that some people have only posted once is suspicious in itself if you make it out to be. The only thing stopping someone from making a case on someone else is their unwillingness to stick their neck out. You have shown that you are aware of the lack of cases, but you have not stuck your neck out and made one. Ergo your neck is worth protecting.

Ehm, to me, it seems tha Serc was very much OK with just you and Emur getting heat. He even said so, namely, that you were his second choice for a lynch (at that time).
The person who needs a different case than this conflict, is you (and to an ever lessening extent, I guess Emurlahn). Really, you're twisting this issue inside out, Gamelon.
And no, I'm not buddy-buddy with Serc, but you are making so many alarm bells ring that all say 'desperate dude alert' that I can't help pointing it out.


Anyway, my vote is out there, I'll let it stick for the next eight to nine hours.

[Omtose]

Barghast, on 29 September 2011 - 09:15 PM, said:

Omtose, on 29 September 2011 - 09:08 PM, said:

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 09:00 PM, said:

Okaros, on 29 September 2011 - 03:07 PM, said:

I agree that it is possible that Gamelon is targeting Emur and feeling safe it since they may be sharing civil servant roles. This in itself is interesting, but does it warrant a vote I wonder? Tiam wants us to target the Usurper. All well and good, but it is doubtful that we could nail the Usurper this early in the game. Chances are the fellow is laying low until he can recruit some people.

I love this game because it is difficult to justify pushing a lynch on someone even if we know (or have a good idea of) what role they have. Knowing that Emur and Game might be civil servants only makes them a target if you know they aren't on your team. The only legitimate target would be a faction leader. So confusing and fantastic.

I will read over the thread again in hopes to pick up on some things I may have missed. Maybe looking into the alleged signalling will help narrow down a potential faction leader.

I don't see why not having much chance of finding the Usurper prevents us from trying to find him. Perhaps someone doesn't want the thread to be chasing him too hard?

And that is the second player to talked about the usurper. The first being Tiam. Now if previous games are anything to go on. Then Tiam could be the usurper hunter which would make Okaros the Usurper or vice versa. I shall put my money where my words are at.

Vote Okaros

Are you pulling a role out of your ass? I think you are pulling a role out of your ass.
And if not, how come you know there is one (or more) when there aren't any in the seven roles named in the OP (Emperor, PM, civvie, military, warlord, champion, usurper)?

You also fail to mention that just after Okaros mentioned the usurper, so did Gamelon. Trying to deflect away from him?

I am actually pulling that role out of my ass. Unless you look and or played in the other games. In which case there were roles like that in them. But I don't know for sure that there is. Just as I don't know for sure that Morgoth still has blond hair rather then the pink hair that he is rummer to have or that Dibs isn't Irish but instead a Icelander who likes to pose as a drunken leprechaun for his own twisted amusement. As for trying to deflect away from Gamelon that would be a no. Gamelon mentioned the usurper by pointing out Okaros mention of him. He did so by quoting Okaros not by bring up the usurper and possible thoughts as to whether or not we should try to find him or not. So strawmanning much. Or is it that you know who Okaros is and so you feel the need to try and to subtle defend him by quickly attacking one vote on him. I don't know but right now I kind of like the reaction that I have gotten over the vote so I am fine with leaving it.

You didn't even bother to question my reasoning for voting for him in that people talk about the roles that they have.

[Ruse]

If I were D'rek I'd be very pleased. This is a good amount of rather meaty activity for day 1 of a game.

Given the accusations, reactions and votes that have happened, I have to admit my reaction is to consider a Gamelon vote. The only thing stopping me is it seems too typical - we lynch the person who stirred up the action in the first place.

Gamelon said

Quote

Another random observation - I don't think there's going to be a lot of movement, at least initially. The rules say you can only successfully move if either (i) there are no enemies on your starting tile or (ii) there is at least one ally on your finishing tile. It's going to be hard to jump into the heart of enemy territory, because you won't have any allies there, and on the borders there are likely to be players from a different faction to stop you. Since I would guess that everyone starts within their own faction's borders, you're probably not going to be able to get into enemy territory until there have been some lynches/NKs to loosen up the borders a little.

I was thinking this same thing - it stands to reason that lynch scenes will probably read as military victories/defeats, which will eventually open up passes into new territory.

[Barghast]

Omtose, on 29 September 2011 - 10:19 PM, said:

Barghast, on 29 September 2011 - 09:15 PM, said:

Omtose, on 29 September 2011 - 09:08 PM, said:

Gamelon, on 29 September 2011 - 09:00 PM, said:

Okaros, on 29 September 2011 - 03:07 PM, said:

I agree that it is possible that Gamelon is targeting Emur and feeling safe it since they may be sharing civil servant roles. This in itself is interesting, but does it warrant a vote I wonder? Tiam wants us to target the Usurper. All well and good, but it is doubtful that we could nail the Usurper this early in the game. Chances are the fellow is laying low until he can recruit some people.

I love this game because it is difficult to justify pushing a lynch on someone even if we know (or have a good idea of) what role they have. Knowing that Emur and Game might be civil servants only makes them a target if you know they aren't on your team. The only legitimate target would be a faction leader. So confusing and fantastic.

I will read over the thread again in hopes to pick up on some things I may have missed. Maybe looking into the alleged signalling will help narrow down a potential faction leader.

I don't see why not having much chance of finding the Usurper prevents us from trying to find him. Perhaps someone doesn't want the thread to be chasing him too hard?

And that is the second player to talked about the usurper. The first being Tiam. Now if previous games are anything to go on. Then Tiam could be the usurper hunter which would make Okaros the Usurper or vice versa. I shall put my money where my words are at.

Vote Okaros

Are you pulling a role out of your ass? I think you are pulling a role out of your ass.
And if not, how come you know there is one (or more) when there aren't any in the seven roles named in the OP (Emperor, PM, civvie, military, warlord, champion, usurper)?

You also fail to mention that just after Okaros mentioned the usurper, so did Gamelon. Trying to deflect away from him?

I am actually pulling that role out of my ass. Unless you look and or played in the other games. In which case there were roles like that in them. But I don't know for sure that there is. Just as I don't know for sure that Morgoth still has blond hair rather then the pink hair that he is rummer to have or that Dibs isn't Irish but instead a Icelander who likes to pose as a drunken leprechaun for his own twisted amusement. As for trying to deflect away from Gamelon that would be a no. Gamelon mentioned the usurper by pointing out Okaros mention of him. He did so by quoting Okaros not by bring up the usurper and possible thoughts as to whether or not we should try to find him or not. So strawmanning much. Or is it that you know who Okaros is and so you feel the need to try and to subtle defend him by quickly attacking one vote on him. I don't know but right now I kind of like the reaction that I have gotten over the vote so I am fine with leaving it.

You didn't even bother to question my reasoning for voting for him in that people talk about the roles that they have.

It's a 5% shot to randomly lynch the usurper, which is what basically your whole vaunted usurper hunt amounts to. In a game like this, it is only natural to discuss set-up and tiles. Oh wait, I was one of the first to mention movement, zomg, that must mean that I have been spending boatloads of time on how to move!!!!111!!. Not to mention, that we had a whole lot of discussing this in the past (few?) game(s). Anyone will be watching twice how much they release of their own info, warned as they were by last game.

Finally, you admit that Okaros didn't mention the usurper first, but Tiamatha did. Why would this usurper hunter mention the usurper first? Even if the role exists, even if she is the usurper hunter, then all she does is muddying the waters for the remainder of us, isn;t she? Not to mention, that the real usurper will get suspicious of her. Honestly, it sounds like you want to blow up the issue and lessen the usurper threat.

As for defending Okaros: nope. I merely tend to go with what information is available that I can read with my own two eyes. Wild speculation on a role that may or may not exist (and why would there be a special usurper hunter when there are already a lot of roles that can find or kill or convert themselves to finding/killing roles?). So, I viewed your comment in the context and I figured it was distracting and mere speculation (as you confirmed) and felt the need to call it into question. Which you have now answered.