[Werthead]

SPOILER RATING: Miniscule and vague to non-existent. Nothing of note is spoiled here at all, but the ultra-paranoid may want to hold off on reading it.


From the Wall to Slaver’s Bay, the world is blighted by war and chaos. In Westeros, the War of the Five Kings continues to rumble on, as Stannis Baratheon regroups his forces at Castle Black and prepares to march against the Boltons, with the northern houses divided between the two sides. In King’s Landing, intrigue seethes as two queens prepare to stand trial. In Dorne, long-gestating plans finally start to see fruition. In the Free Cities, an army of exiles and sellswords from Westeros gathers, breaking their contracts in the hope of finally seeing home and hope again. In Slaver’s Bay, a young girl must try to unite warring factions howling for her blood, unaware that her every command sends reverberations through the balance of trade and power in the world, and even dragons may not be enough to protect her…

A Dance with Dragons is the fifth novel in the Song of Ice and Fire series and probably the most eagerly-awaited epic fantasy novels in the recent history of the genre. It may be six years since A Feast for Crows was published, but it's eleven since A Storm of Swords came out and the last time we saw new material from Jon Snow, Daenerys Targaryen or Tyrion Lannister, the arguable central triptych of characters around whom the whole series rotates. The risk is high that Martin would deliver a novel that fails to meet expectations.

Fortunately, he succeeds in giving ASoIaF fans a book that is almost everything its predecessor wasn’t. Whilst Crows was tightly-focused and constrained in geographic setting, Dragons is huge, epic and sprawling. The novel covers events happening almost five thousand miles apart from one another, with a huge cast of characters, old and new. Where there are new characters, they are there to serve specific plot points and get the storyline really moving along, whilst some major existing characters are simply not featured where they have nothing to contribute to the storyline. Martin employs a fairly strict POV structure this time around: Dany, Jon and Tyrion (and, to a lesser extent, another character) get a significant number of chapters each but everyone else only gets a few. Once their work for the novel is done, they’re outta there, and other POVs only show up when needed. This gives the novel a busy, revolving-door feeling at times as characters come in, do what needs to be done, and then get out, and gives some individual storylines and chapters a rather concise, focused feel, despite this being a huge, long book. Certainly with these ’lesser’ POVs, there’s little to no time for filler, though with some of the bigger POVs there are rare moments when Martin dwells on a story point a bit too long or delivers bit of background information which, whilst intriguing, doesn’t really contribute much to the storyline at hand.

It’s a busy book with lots happening, possibly more than any other book in the series bar only A Storm of Swords (I took notes whilst reading, and by the end they amounted to a ludicrous 12 A4 pages in length). It’s also the most disparate, and the geographic sprawl would make it easy for Martin to lose control of either the timeline or the plot focus. He doesn’t do either, and by the end of the novel the timelines have been pretty much re-synched (with plenty of AFFC characters reappearing in the final few chapters to resolve their cliffhangers and keep everything moving). Thematically, the book is much concerned with the notion of deeds, not words (the term “Words are wind,” is oft-repeated, probably a little bit too much) and the notion that you can only know people by what they do, not what they say. Disease and pestilence also play a role, whilst for the military engagements Martin expands his influences to include Napoleon’s ill-fated march into Russia during the winter of 1812. These scenes are vivid enough to make you feel chilly even if you’re reading the book on the beach.

This series is known for its plot twists, sudden shocks and major character deaths, and Martin doesn’t stint here. Some twists are genuinely shocking (though a couple have some carefully-built-in get-out clauses), on the level of the Red Wedding or higher, though others are a bit more predictable, with the author having taken care to lay some groundwork in earlier novels. Other elements come out of nowhere: the resolution of a key, major backstory mystery from the very first novel (probably not the one you’re thinking of) is unexpected in both happening with two books still to go, and also in the amount of detail it gives. Another twist is bravely pulled off with almost solely the use of new characters and actually works, throwing almost all of the carefully-constructed fan theories out there for a loop (and it's done with the economy of chapters that A Feast for Crows was at times crying out for).

Characterisation is particularly strong, and Martin seems to relish some descriptive passages. A detailed account of the Doom of Valyria – quite a few books overdue – is spine-crawling and disturbing, whilst another one of Martin’s trademark huge feasts may feel over-familiar right up until you realise what’s really going on, at which point a belly laugh is the only possible response.

A Dance with Dragons is a somewhat bleak book. Winter has fallen in all its fury and it really doesn’t seem possible for the war-ravaged Seven Kingdoms to survive, particularly in the North, with no harvest taken in and little to no supplies put to one side. Some characters are trapped in nightmarish situations whilst others have to be careful with every decision they make lest they trigger chaos and bloodshed. But there are moments of comedy and lightness, and the feeling that in the darkness there is still hope for these people and their world, if they can turn things around.

Towards the end, A Dance with Dragons picks up an irresistible momentum which brings us towards what looks like the biggest convergence and battle in the series to date. But, in a misstep that could have been fatal if not handled better, we never quite get to that climax, which seems to have been mostly delayed to the start of The Winds of Winter. Instead Martin breaks off the book on a series of titanic cliffhangers that dwarf anything seen previously, and only a few story threads find any sense of resolution. But, just as that sinks in and a small note of disappointment creeps into things, we then get a couple of concluding chapters featuring some of the most pivotal and startling moments in the series to date, and the real sense that whatever readers think A Song of Ice and Fire is about, or how it will end, Martin is not necessarily interested in doing the same thing. The ending is impressive, despite the cliffhangers, but brings in a little note of bitter sweetness: waiting a year for The Winds of Winter would be hard enough, but the fact that we know we’ll probably have a lot longer to wait is truly frustrating.

A Dance with Dragons (****½) solves a lot of the problems experienced in the previous book in the series and brings renewed energy and focus to getting this story towards the endgame. A series of cliffhangers, some over-used terms (though "Nuncle," only gets one airing, thankfully) and a feeling that Martin might be revisiting some plot elements a little too freely dent the book's achievements, but a series of emotionally intense and surprising final chapters restore the faith that Martin has regained control of the story. The novel will be published on 12 July in the UK and USA, but given how many bookstores have broken the embargo, you may get lucky before then.

Full disclosure: I am a moderator on the Westeros.org website, the creator and chief admin of the Game of Thrones Wiki and someone who is mentioned in the acknowledgements of the book. Whilst I have tried to have been as honest as possible in my review, you may want to bear those factors in mind.

[End of Disc One]

Great review. So was the embargo lifted? Not that I care about that, just wondering.

[Abyss]

Great review Wert. I am suitably psyched and horrified.

[Fid]

excellent review. Bring it on

[Cyphon]

To echo Abyss I am horrified and psyched.

Roll on Tuesday. I might go in and pick this up before work.

[Tyr]

I need to know one thing and one thing only: Is Bronn in or mentioned in the book?

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Very nice review Wert! i never had any doubts that it would at least be a 2good" book,but you review seems to hint it will be something more.

[QuickTidal]

Tyr, on 07 July 2011 - 04:03 PM, said:

I need to know one thing and one thing only: Is Bronn in or mentioned in the book?

Yep, he has his eyes carved out by Guy of Gisborn...with a spoon.

[QuickTidal]

Cyphon, on 07 July 2011 - 03:07 PM, said:

To echo Abyss I am horrified and psyched.

Roll on Tuesday. I might go in and pick this up before work.

Yeah, I am totally of the same mind. Looking fwd to reading this.

[Cobbles]

Werthead, on 07 July 2011 - 01:24 PM, said:

... But, in a misstep that could have been fatal if not handled better, we never quite get to that climax, which seems to have been mostly delayed to the start of The Winds of Winter. Instead Martin breaks off the book on a series of titanic cliffhangers that dwarf anything seen previously, and only a few story threads find any sense of resolution. But, just as that sinks in and a small note of disappointment creeps into things, we then get a couple of concluding chapters featuring some of the most pivotal and startling moments in the series to date, and the real sense that whatever readers think A Song of Ice and Fire is about, or how it will end, Martin is not necessarily interested in doing the same thing. The ending is impressive, despite the cliffhangers, but brings in a little note of bitter sweetness: waiting a year for The Winds of Winter would be hard enough, but the fact that we know we'll probably have a lot longer to wait is truly frustrating.
...

So it's a giant setup that ends in massive cliffhangers with resolution mostly delayed to the next book?

Well, thanks for the review, which probably saves me around $20. I might pick it up at some point from the library, or might read a summary later. It doesn't sound like a book which I would enjoy. It sounds it will leave me more frustrated than satisfied.

[Ceda Cicero]

Cobbles, on 07 July 2011 - 07:19 PM, said:

Werthead, on 07 July 2011 - 01:24 PM, said:

... But, in a misstep that could have been fatal if not handled better, we never quite get to that climax, which seems to have been mostly delayed to the start of The Winds of Winter. Instead Martin breaks off the book on a series of titanic cliffhangers that dwarf anything seen previously, and only a few story threads find any sense of resolution. But, just as that sinks in and a small note of disappointment creeps into things, we then get a couple of concluding chapters featuring some of the most pivotal and startling moments in the series to date, and the real sense that whatever readers think A Song of Ice and Fire is about, or how it will end, Martin is not necessarily interested in doing the same thing. The ending is impressive, despite the cliffhangers, but brings in a little note of bitter sweetness: waiting a year for The Winds of Winter would be hard enough, but the fact that we know we'll probably have a lot longer to wait is truly frustrating.
...

So it's a giant setup that ends in massive cliffhangers with resolution mostly delayed to the next book?

Well, thanks for the review, which probably saves me around $20. I might pick it up at some point from the library, or might read a summary later. It doesn't sound like a book which I would enjoy. It sounds it will leave me more frustrated than satisfied.

To push back on that (and be aware, I haven't finished yet like Wert - I'm coming up on page 650), the book is well written, the characters are well-wrought (as always with GRRM,) the scope has expanded far beyond the comparatively limited setting of AFFC, and even beyond anything we've seen in the series to date, GRRM is finally indulging in some serious world building, and the pace between chapters (even if they are mostly "set up" for later installments and the climaxes of a seven book series) is brisk and engaging. This argument about how "set up" is lame is something that's irked me since people were getting their panties in a wad about the fact that THE CRIPPLED GOD had substantial "set up." If it's an author who's writing you enjoy writing characters you enjoy in a series you've enjoyed, does it really matter if questions aren't being answered on every page, climaxes aren't playing out, resolutions aren't being brought forth? Did you really start keep reading the series after GoT just for answers and climaxes, or because of the writing, the characters, the world, etc?

All I'm saying is, if the implication that every question isn't answered and every page doesn't pack the punch of the Red Wedding or the Battle of Blackwater or the birth of the dragons is enough to turn you off from reading the books, how do you stand to read other epic fantasies with multiple installments and cliffhangers between volumes?

[acesn8s]

QuickTidal, on 07 July 2011 - 06:43 PM, said:

Tyr, on 07 July 2011 - 04:03 PM, said:

I need to know one thing and one thing only: Is Bronn in or mentioned in the book?

Yep, he has his eyes carved out by Guy of Gisborn...with a spoon.

"Why a spoon?"

[Avatar]

I was afraid that, with AFFC, GRRM lost his touch. It would be great if ADOD is as good as it seems!

[Cobbles]

Ceda Cicero, on 07 July 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

Cobbles, on 07 July 2011 - 07:19 PM, said:

Werthead, on 07 July 2011 - 01:24 PM, said:

... But, in a misstep that could have been fatal if not handled better, we never quite get to that climax, which seems to have been mostly delayed to the start of The Winds of Winter. Instead Martin breaks off the book on a series of titanic cliffhangers that dwarf anything seen previously, and only a few story threads find any sense of resolution. But, just as that sinks in and a small note of disappointment creeps into things, we then get a couple of concluding chapters featuring some of the most pivotal and startling moments in the series to date, and the real sense that whatever readers think A Song of Ice and Fire is about, or how it will end, Martin is not necessarily interested in doing the same thing. The ending is impressive, despite the cliffhangers, but brings in a little note of bitter sweetness: waiting a year for The Winds of Winter would be hard enough, but the fact that we know we'll probably have a lot longer to wait is truly frustrating.
...

So it's a giant setup that ends in massive cliffhangers with resolution mostly delayed to the next book?

Well, thanks for the review, which probably saves me around $20. I might pick it up at some point from the library, or might read a summary later. It doesn't sound like a book which I would enjoy. It sounds it will leave me more frustrated than satisfied.

To push back on that (and be aware, I haven't finished yet like Wert - I'm coming up on page 650), the book is well written, the characters are well-wrought (as always with GRRM,) the scope has expanded far beyond the comparatively limited setting of AFFC, and even beyond anything we've seen in the series to date, GRRM is finally indulging in some serious world building, and the pace between chapters (even if they are mostly "set up" for later installments and the climaxes of a seven book series) is brisk and engaging. This argument about how "set up" is lame is something that's irked me since people were getting their panties in a wad about the fact that THE CRIPPLED GOD had substantial "set up." If it's an author who's writing you enjoy writing characters you enjoy in a series you've enjoyed, does it really matter if questions aren't being answered on every page, climaxes aren't playing out, resolutions aren't being brought forth? Did you really start keep reading the series after GoT just for answers and climaxes, or because of the writing, the characters, the world, etc?

All I'm saying is, if the implication that every question isn't answered and every page doesn't pack the punch of the Red Wedding or the Battle of Blackwater or the birth of the dragons is enough to turn you off from reading the books, how do you stand to read other epic fantasies with multiple installments and cliffhangers between volumes?

Every question has to be answered? Every page has to pack the punch of the Red Wedding? How could I ever stand reading epic fantasies with multiple installments and cliffhangers?

Oh please.

The point is that I don't particularly enjoy Martin's writing. Characterization is mostly fine, but he becomes quite repetitive with his use of plot elements, one example would be cliffhangers. If I enjoyed the 'who killed JR' type endings, I'd be watching soap operas instead. But I don't. And thanks to the review I know I likely won't enjoy reading Dance either.

[worry]

Dang you don't gotta be so crabby about it. Ceda was responding to what you wrote, not reading your mind. How could he possibly know you don't like GRRM's writing, based on the limited information that a) you've apparently read the first four books in the series, are annoyed by cliffhangers, and c) might read it later anyway?

[Werthead]

Tyr, on 07 July 2011 - 04:03 PM, said:

I need to know one thing and one thing only: Is Bronn in or mentioned in the book?

Minorly spoilerish:

Spoiler

He doesn't appear. He's mentioned a few times in the Tyrion chapters. Tyrion wistfully wishes Bronn was with him on his epic road trip adventure. If he was, we'd have the spin-off series right there.

Quote

So it's a giant setup that ends in massive cliffhangers with resolution mostly delayed to the next book?

No. Quite a lot of major plot movement takes place in the book itself. There are cliffhangers at the end which could be problematic for some people, but I think the actual ending of the book (the last two chapters in particular) are reasonable places to stop. But one story arc in particular feels like it's been cut off before it really gets going.

If I had to compare it to a MALAZAN novel I suppose the closest would be DUST OF DREAMS, though perhaps not quite as cliffhangery as that. A better comparison might be KNIFE OF DREAMS for WoT: you can see and feel the story kicking into a higher gear and major plot events start happening and there's the feeling of resolution and movement.

This post has been edited by Werthead: 08 July 2011 - 01:09 AM

[Held]

Over at the ASIOAF forum on the general topic is discussion about several spoiler free or minor spoiler reviews. Wert's review is the favorite there but several others are: http://www.tor.com/b...ns-spoiler-free (TOR)
http://io9.com/58190...-worth-the-wait (io9 - I like this one, doesn't pull any punches as to what to expect) and
http://www.npr.org/2...-ambivalent-age (Lev Grossman - superficial)

Now that the review ban is lifted, there will be more. If you have any doubts about reading Dance, you should avail yourself of these relatively spoiler free reviews to help make up your mind. Even though this book bodes to be very dark and brutal and with cliff hangers, I definitely want to read it as the reviews are rating it as an excellent read and I need to find out what is happening with some of my fav characters. I hate cliff hangers but they are par for the course with any series and rightfully so, why come back for more if you know everything?

This post has been edited by Held: 08 July 2011 - 06:17 AM

[Tsundoku]

So, my 2 most important questions:
Do we get any movement on the Brienne situation?
Is there really a character based on Pat that dies horribly?

For GRRM to put in even nastier cliffhangers than AFFC is a pretty shit thing to do. It's like he took the last decade of criticism and did it just to say "Here, better hope I live long enough, you turds!".

If he doesn't turn in the manuscript for the next one in record time and I was his publishers I would send in a squad of Inception-type dudes and rape the shit out of his mind. That way we'd find out if he really is just making it up as he goes along, and we'd get some resolution.













I'll probably still buy the first copy I see though. Fuck you, GRRM.

[Abyss]

Werthead, on 08 July 2011 - 01:06 AM, said:

... A better comparison might be KNIFE OF DREAMS for WoT: you can see and feel the story kicking into a higher gear and major plot events start happening and there's the feeling of resolution and movement.

So at least one major character will be spending the next five years under a wall?

Sombra, on 08 July 2011 - 07:54 AM, said:

...For GRRM to put in even nastier cliffhangers than AFFC is a pretty shit thing to do. It's like he took the last decade of criticism and did it just to say "Here, better hope I live long enough, you turds!".

For some self-flagellistic reason, i absolutely love the notion of GRMM sitting there in his money chair, sipping a moneytini and fanning himself with a moneyfan while chuckling out loud at his evil plan to wait at least SEVEN years before releasing the next book. And then having his moneygolems carry him over to his daily moneybath.

Quote

If he doesn't turn in the manuscript for the next one in record time and I was his publishers I would send in a squad of Inception-type dudes and rape the shit out of his mind. That way we'd find out if he really is just making it up as he goes along, and we'd get some resolution.

I dunno... i suspect his publishers are looking at the royalties from the GoT prompted book sales of the older SIF novels and telling George to kick back and just relax for a few years. FFS every book in the series just jumped back onto virtually every bestseller list that matters. the last time that happened was when the LoTR flics were released.

And while there will inevitably be some dieing down as the new reader hordes level off, they can reasonably expect a surge EVERY YEAR for at least the next 4-5 years just based on the existing books being turned into tv seasons.

This series is money in the bank and if GRRM choked on a drumstick and died tomorrow it would STILL be that. Wert and I can argue whether someone else would finish the series elsethread but the fact remains that GRRM is sitting pretty and has YEARS, arguably a decade or more, to finish the supposed last two books in this series.

Quote

I'll probably still buy the first copy I see though. Fuck you, GRRM.

...and that's exactly why.

[Illuyankas]

Abyss, on 08 July 2011 - 03:04 PM, said:

Werthead, on 08 July 2011 - 01:06 AM, said:

... A better comparison might be KNIFE OF DREAMS for WoT: you can see and feel the story kicking into a higher gear and major plot events start happening and there's the feeling of resolution and movement.

So at least one major character will be spending the next five years under a wall?

No, Knife of Dreams is the one where the author got his shit together after a critically slammed novel and did a pretty reasonably good job of getting the ball rolling towards the epic climax in a book everyone agrees is much better than its predecessor (which felt like half of a novel, the next one being the other half) before tragically dying and being unable to end the series personally.

...oh.

This post has been edited by Illuyankas: 08 July 2011 - 03:32 PM