[IgnatiusKruppe]

her dugs were filled with milk!

[kurono]

Catherine, on 11 July 2011 - 07:24 PM, said:

Does anyone know if the lock out at Canada Post and the millions of backlog of mail has affected the delivery, please let me know if anyone has received their copy on time, thanks.

Well I got my copy on the 13th but I ordered from Chapters not Amazon with free shipping. I also got it through UPS, not Canada Post.

[Gatekeeper]

I just didn't enjoy any of it. Except Selmy, who just seems like a mangasm fantasy for GrrM, but I can dig it

[blackzoid]

I'm not sure how to feel about the book. It was.....ok.
Some very good parts and many many boring parts.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 19 July 2011 - 05:11 PM

[Cobbles]

Hm, lots of 2 and 3 star reviews on Amazon.

Sour grapes or deserved?

[QuickTidal]

Cobbles, on 21 July 2011 - 10:43 PM, said:

Hm, lots of 2 and 3 star reviews on Amazon.

Sour grapes or deserved?

I think you'll see a lot of middling (it was good, better than AFFC, but it's still a far cry from ASOS) reviews.

[polishgenius]

I'm gonna agree with blackzoid. Way too much treading water, and much like Feast, the pacing lurched all over the place - there was no momentum outside the big events, because apart from Bran's story we almost never found out anything actually new in the connecting parts, just movement of pieces into places they needed to be.

It was good, don't get me wrong. But very disappointing, and the ending was...

[Ceda Cicero]

The pattern I'm starting to note in the more heated and negative reviews is the lack of revelations and big info dumps. And I can't really decide if this is a legitimate reason to have an overall negative view of the book. I suppose it is. But at the same time I think about allllllll the questions, misdirection, and prolonged mysteries in MBotF book after book after book and how those weren't an invective - to me at least - against the basic quality of the novels. BONEHUNTERS raised about 400x more questions than it answered but I didn't walk away from it feeling a bit disappointed.

And that's largely because we're comparing apples and oranges here, but also I think in part because of the constant waiting and multi-year gaps. GRRM's pace is frustrating in its own right, but it becomes truly problematic when it starts to color how people experience a book.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Let's not lose sight of the fact that this is brilliantly conceived, mature, entertaining writing. The pacing may be a problem, but you can't fault the quality.

This post has been edited by Dolorous Menhir: 22 July 2011 - 12:04 AM

[Spiridon_Deannis]

Ceda Cicero, on 21 July 2011 - 11:42 PM, said:

The pattern I'm starting to note in the more heated and negative reviews is the lack of revelations and big info dumps. And I can't really decide if this is a legitimate reason to have an overall negative view of the book. I suppose it is. But at the same time I think about allllllll the questions, misdirection, and prolonged mysteries in MBotF book after book after book and how those weren't an invective - to me at least - against the basic quality of the novels. BONEHUNTERS raised about 400x more questions than it answered but I didn't walk away from it feeling a bit disappointed.

And that's largely because we're comparing apples and oranges here, but also I think in part because of the constant waiting and multi-year gaps. GRRM's pace is frustrating in its own right, but it becomes truly problematic when it starts to color how people experience a book.

Why don´t we put just it this way ?: There is a very clear, stylistic break in aSoIaF after aSoS. First 3 volumes: brilliant. Volumes 4 and 5: meandering. Where Volume 5 seems completely unedited and basically catering to a TV crowd. Let´s stop using that *11 year* argument to justify a kinda OK, but kinda shoddy product. There are enough critical readers out there that picked up the cycle only this year because of the HBO series, and want to know what, they are not collapsing in bliss. Read the 5 volumes back to back and you will be surprised (maybe flabbergasted ?).

[polishgenius]

Spiridon_Deannis, on 22 July 2011 - 02:37 AM, said:

Why don´t we put just it this way ?: There is a very clear, stylistic break in aSoIaF after aSoS. First 3 volumes: brilliant. Volumes 4 and 5: meandering. Where Volume 5 seems completely unedited and basically catering to a TV crowd. Let´s stop using that *11 year* argument to justify a kinda OK, but kinda shoddy product. There are enough critical readers out there that picked up the cycle only this year because of the HBO series, and want to know what, they are not collapsing in bliss. Read the 5 volumes back to back and you will be surprised (maybe flabbergasted ?).

Tbh, I think once you get past the shock of the Red Wedding, you can trace a lot of the problems back to aSoS- it was also a bit mis-paced, though not as badly, and it was the first book where Martin started using too many cliffhangers (though, thankfully, not at the end of the book).

[blackzoid]

SPOILERS BELOW


























I think its more a long the lines that there seems to be no climax to the Meereen chapters. It just carrys on and on.
In fact the climax starts and then the book ends. Its very much a tease.
While the same thing could be argued about the chapters set at the Wall/North, it seemed like more actually happened in that storyline and so the lack of resolution as regards the Stannis/Bolton fight wasn't as annoying. Jon's storyline came to a natural close.

Ya, its Meereen thats my problem. I hate that place.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 22 July 2011 - 05:00 PM

[nacht]

way over the top (I think GRRM is going too much for cheap shocks)
Danerys is too cloyingly good. Had to force myself to read her chapters.

Compare characterization of Danerys to that of Tavore and you will see the difference.

[Ceda Cicero]

nacht, on 23 July 2011 - 03:22 AM, said:

way over the top (I think GRRM is going too much for cheap shocks)
Danerys is too cloyingly good. Had to force myself to read her chapters.

Compare characterization of Danerys to that of Tavore and you will see the difference.

If anything, in DANCE, Dany comes off more like Felisin to me. This is the first book where I actually finally saw humanity in her, and her actual youth and immaturity began to show through in the sense that real consequences seemed to be looming. But I do get what you're saying to the extent that in spite of waiting 4 novels to see a Dany actually struggling with the weight of her birthright and circumstance despite her youth (rather than those things just carrying her through each and every trial unscathed - see her effortless conquest of Slaver's Bay), when I actually got it, I found her intolerable and borderline uninteresting 90% of the time.

This post has been edited by Ceda Cicero: 23 July 2011 - 03:37 AM

[polishgenius]

The worst thing about the Dany chapters was that bloody captain. GRRM's second attempt at a new Oberyn?
And yeah,

Spoiler

while it made sense that she started acting more her age under the pressure, it wasn't done very well imo, it really just meant pages and pages of character development to get her back to where she'd been to begin with - realistic perhaps, but not great storytelling.

(Them's minor spoilers, but just in case)

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 23 July 2011 - 01:23 PM

[Silk]

time to come clean.... .unlike the other books in this series I just cannot get into this one.... its driving me crazy and is just not sucking me in.... in fact this has to be the slowest book I've read in the last goodness knows how long... so slow that I'm only able to use it for bath time reading... in a chapter a night whereas books like TCG were done in two days flat

[Chance]

It's interesting that people find it better then feast, it does barely move things forward and for a book that long it is unforgivable.

Still that wasn't my main problem with it but the endless lineup of authoritarian figures and main characters who are so stupid any resonably intelligent person would find them dull beyond belief. How the majority of lord and ladies of the seven kingdoms and its neighbours could ever rule anything is a mystery.

Also what is with the repetition of some phrases that would be pages on their own.

Last but not least is there any reason why there can't be anything light/happy in any storylines and what little good stuff do appear are only there to create a contrast to the grimy world the characters live in. Sure darkness gives a sense of realism and gritt but people usually have/create some good times too. I think this aspect was amplified in this book before there has been at least occational glimpses of true good times in the story.

Still it had good parts now and then and I guess I'll read the next one too but only to get closer to an ending however at this pace Martin seem strangly optimistic to think he could finish it in two more books.

This post has been edited by Chance: 26 July 2011 - 12:40 PM

[Dolorous Menhir]

Silk, on 26 July 2011 - 11:13 AM, said:

time to come clean.... .unlike the other books in this series I just cannot get into this one.... its driving me crazy and is just not sucking me in.... in fact this has to be the slowest book I've read in the last goodness knows how long... so slow that I'm only able to use it for bath time reading... in a chapter a night whereas books like TCG were done in two days flat

Let us pause for a minute and give Silk some respect for reading this in the bath. Sore arms?

[QuickTidal]

Chance, on 26 July 2011 - 12:29 PM, said:

Also what is with the repetition of some phrases that would be pages on their own.

I agree. It was overused.

Can you imagine if the first book had been peppered with "When you play the game of thrones...." over and over?

I think the only other real example I can think of from the other 3 books is the use of the term "sweetling" which shows up in ASOS no less than 4000 times.

[Ceda Cicero]

King Kazma, on 26 July 2011 - 07:40 PM, said:

Chance, on 26 July 2011 - 12:29 PM, said:

Also what is with the repetition of some phrases that would be pages on their own.

I agree. It was overused.

Can you imagine if the first book had been peppered with "When you play the game of thrones...." over and over?

I think the only other real example I can think of from the other 3 books is the use of the term "sweetling" which shows up in ASOS no less than 4000 times.

I have a wild pet theory about the overuse of "key" phrases. Like most of my theories, it has to do with the enormous delays between installments and the gaps in periods of writing for GRRM. I think GRRM is using these phrases ("You know nothing, Jon Snow," "I must go forward to go back," "Three treasons you shall know," "Where do whores go,") almost as a way for he himself to reconnect to some of the major events/turning points of particular characters after tons of time not dealing with them. Similarly, maybe he thinks that we as readers think of those as iconic phrases and appreciate seeing them whenever we can, as much as we can. Which in a way was kinda true, before they just got way outta hand in DANCE.