[RodeoRanch]

I want more Kovacs books. But that seems an unlikely prospect.

[Abyss]

BLACK MAN was loosely connected to the Kovacs stories and imnsho, an excellent book.

As RM has moved on to some really awesome fantasy work, i'm content to consider the Kovacs trilogy as complete.

- Abyss, will not complain if RM decides otherwise tho'...

[RodeoRanch]

Oh is BLACK MAN considered part of the Kovacs universe?

I really liked that one too.

[Binder of Demons]

RodeoRanch, on 15 September 2009 - 05:33 PM, said:

Oh is BLACK MAN considered part of the Kovacs universe?

I really liked that one too.

yeah, i think Black Man could eventually be considered part of the Kovacs universe. I remember certainly getting that feeling when i read it. The idea of the super soldiers, and some of the other technologies mentioned in black man could easily be extrapolated out to form the beginnings of the envoys.

I'd love for him to do another Kovacs novel though.

[Abyss]

Yeah, the genetic science of making the 13s and other variants may be the basis for the designer bodies in Kovacs time, and the vr the characters use is a 'primitive' version of what Kovacs has access to.

I'd actually like to see another Marsalis story, altho from comments RM has posted, i suspect the sales and reception were such that he'll stick to Ringil and co for a while. Too many people hated BM just because it wasn't Kovacs. Which is silly, imnsho.

- Abyss, evolved fan.

[polishgenius]

BM is probably my favourite RM book so far, so yeah, very silly.
I'm not sure where a sequel would go though - perhaps another book in the setting, but I'm not sure it's one with as much potential for variety as the Kovaks 'verse.


I'm not sure about it being a precursor either- I seem to remember reading things that made it seem that it's impossible for that to be the case, though it's long enough ago now that I really couldn't say for sure.

[drinksinbars]

i thought he evens aid himself black man was like a prequel to the kovacs books showing the origin of sleeving. altered carbon is my favourite morgan novel, it was just so solid and stands up well to rereads.

[Abyss]

I'm plotting a Kovacs reread on vacation some time in the future. I'm curious how well it holds together as a series as opposed to standalones read a year or two apart as i did.

- Abyss, linear.

[RodeoRanch]

I read all of 'em back in the spring. Still loved them.

[Vien Kush]

Loved the TK books, especially Woken Furies. For some reason he reminds me a lot of William Gibson, perhaps it is the Cyberpunk feel of WF.
Market Forces is also a good read.
Shoot me if you must but I am still undecided on The Steel Remains, waiting to see what he does with it.

[Binder of Demons]

Vien Kush, on 17 September 2009 - 07:55 PM, said:

Shoot me if you must but I am still undecided on The Steel Remains, waiting to see what he does with it.

If you insist.......

This post has been edited by Hetan: 18 September 2009 - 10:03 PM

[Hetan]

edit: Malaclypse posting as Hetan

I have his email address and I'm not sure what to do with it. Ideas welcome

[alt146]

Hetan, on 18 September 2009 - 06:11 PM, said:

edit: Malaclypse posting as Hetan

I have his email address and I'm not sure what to do with it. Ideas welcome

Send him a link to the awesome pics thread. Once we've drawn him in, we'll seduce him with tales of rodeo's pants and apt's wheelchair thieving, until we either convince him to write a new kovacs book, or get cameos in his next book. Or BOTH.

[Binder of Demons]

Hetan, on 18 September 2009 - 06:11 PM, said:

edit: Malaclypse posting as Hetan

I have his email address and I'm not sure what to do with it. Ideas welcome

Well you could wish him all the best from the scary mob here, since he was cool enough to stop in here and discuss his last book a few times.

And then ask him to send along a nice ARC of the sequel to The Steel Remains to me.

Cheers.

[flea]

Just finished Woken Furies, and I read all three in the last month. Great read.

I think it interesting that at a certain point fantasy and scifi begin to resemble each other--at some point some of the technology begins to look like magic. Of course I have not really read any scifi.

Nothing to really add here--traditional noir detective stories set in a weird future. Wonderful diversions.

Thanks to Abyss for recommending these.

[maro]

Black Man II could go back to Mars?

[Abyss]

Vien Kush, on 17 September 2009 - 07:55 PM, said:

Shoot me if you must but I am still undecided on The Steel Remains, waiting to see what he does with it.

That's fair. TSR is sideways of most classic fantasy or even more recent works like SE, Bakker and GRRM. The language is modern'ish, the tropes are down and characters have samesex with fantasy races. These were things i actually liked about it, along with me just generally liking Rm and being pre-disposed to like his work. I think he does great characters, interesting development and brilliant action scenes. But TSR challenges the fantasy fan on a couple of points and it's not going to be everyone's cup of grog. That said, if you don't like it clearly you are a communist and probably a cylon.

Hetan, on 18 September 2009 - 06:11 PM, said:

edit: Malaclypse posting as Hetan
I have his email address and I'm not sure what to do with it. Ideas welcome

I think he's been on here a few times. He's pretty accessible as genre authors go.

flea, on 27 May 2010 - 01:47 AM, said:

Just finished Woken Furies, and I read all three in the last month. Great read.

I think it interesting that at a certain point fantasy and scifi begin to resemble each other--at some point some of the technology begins to look like magic. Of course I have not really read any scifi.

Nothing to really add here--traditional noir detective stories set in a weird future. Wonderful diversions.

Thanks to Abyss for recommending these.

You are most welcome.

It's been argued more than once that where the science is 'just there' but not explained, it's 'science fantasy' and when it gets into the guts of how things work it's 'science fiction' or 'hard sf'. I think the distinction is pretty meaningless. If the author spends extensive time explaining how their magic system is based on science does that make it 'fantasy science'... all of which is to say imnsho, if you read the Kovacs books, you've read sf. There are big goopy mounds of other sf out there to run through your thinkymeatz that play the science factor

maro, on 27 May 2010 - 03:37 AM, said:

Black Man II could go back to Mars?

I would like that.
unfortuntately BLACK MAN was not nearly as well received as the Kovacs books or TSR and it seems unlikely RM is going to sequel the book any time soon.

@RICHARD MORGAN: This would be an ideal time for you to magically respond downthread that i am utterly and completely wrong and you're writing three sequels to BLACK MAN in between THE DARK COMMANDS and your comics and game work and, oh, life stuff...

- Abyss, can hope.

[maro]

Abyss, on 27 May 2010 - 04:43 PM, said:

maro, on 27 May 2010 - 03:37 AM, said:

Black Man II could go back to Mars?

I would like that.
unfortuntately BLACK MAN was not nearly as well received as the Kovacs books or TSR and it seems unlikely RM is going to sequel the book any time soon.

@RICHARD MORGAN: This would be an ideal time for you to magically respond downthread that i am utterly and completely wrong and you're writing three sequels to BLACK MAN in between THE DARK COMMANDS and your comics and game work and, oh, life stuff...

- Abyss, can hope.

I wonder why? I enjoyed it. It was considerably better than Market Forces (Although that wasn't really that bad as a Satire).

Probably the title........

[amphibian]

Abyss, on 08 September 2009 - 04:27 PM, said:

So...

Anyone reread the Kovacs books lately?



- Abyss, was sad that Jimi Hendrix only appeared in the first one.

I read 'em. The Kovacs books are some of the best writing I've encountered in a long time. I've really been spoiled for things to read, with the Alastair Reynolds books, the Dresden books and these (next up is the Codex Alera). What makes the Kovacs books so appealing is that they're in the same vein as the Dresden books - beginning with a detective story, but expanding to tackle different story constructions and ultimately to say some pretty profound things about human life. I love how Morgan and Dresden take little components of the story and drop pieces and foreshadowing into way ahead of time, so when things converge, they make an enormous amount of sense. All in all, I think Morgan is the better at it.

Woken Furies was enormously affecting, in particular, Quellcrist Falconer's situation and how she dealt with it. Just reading it took a lot out of me and I can understand why Morgan wants to leave the Kovacs universe for a time. Where do you go from there?

Broken Angels was perhaps the weakest of the three, but is still a phenomenal piece of work itself. I really liked the shift in perspective from Kovacs essentially working alone to Kovacs working with a team to accomplish something rather insane.

I found it interesting that the people within the Kovacs universe had mastered the uploading of human consciousness and intelligence into the digital medium (as well as having sentient AIs like the Jimi Hendrix), but the people of the Revelation Space universe (Reynolds' work) haven't quite gotten there yet, even though they're working thousands and thousands of years later in the future.

I thought Black Man was weaker than Broken Angels. The ending kind of sucked. Didn't read Market Forces.

I also read the Steel Remains, which was pretty good, but a bit of a prologue to something bigger. It kinda reminded me of No Country For Old Men, by Cormac McCarthy, in that it was a shorter piece that kinda seemed like the warm up for something bigger. In McCarthy's case, that was The Road, which made it biiiiig.

Here's hoping that Morgan someday figures out where to take Kovacs next and succeeds with the other series.

[Tapper]

The next stop would arguably be

Spoiler

the whole Quellist revolt, seeing how he's landed with Quell on a boat

, where the last novel left of. I think Morgan would want to leave that alone as that kind of tale would hardly fit Kovacs the lone wolf/ small tactics guy.

Skipping that episode entirely to start a new novel is rather unlikely: the whole conondrum he's in is pretty much make or break for Kovacs, imho: either they make it and he'll be rewarded so handsomely he'll never have to work again, or he's looking at permanent erasure if it goes tits up.

If Morgan takes the third route, with Kovacs breaking away from all that (either by escape or by becoming a turncoat) for a new novel that works pretty much like what we've come to expect from the Kovacs series, he'll have to spend a lot of pages explaining why and how, anyway.

I can see him leaving Kovacs alone forever and us wondering what happened - would be a good end, imho. Failing that, maybe he'd introduce a new main character visiting Harlan's world or Kovacs after the events of Woken Furies?

Re: Black Man:
Personally, I thought Black Man was deserving of a sequel. It took very long for me to remotely like it, and I came to see it only on the third re-read as a very good book, but the setting is very interesting and has a lot to offer, and Marsalis can become more interesting than Kovacs - he's really the odd man out in all respects and there is so much that can be done with the character.

Then again, I'm not sure I'd like to read any other Morgan novel before he has finished his Land Fit for Heroes series... I loved TSR to bits and really can't wait for the The Dark Commands.